Arrowhead Pride

The Sachs program is supposed to create this type of culture

Never imagined it for a football team, but I believe that if Hunt went to that class this is his move. Distrust and fear is one way to motivate employees. Most of us prefer the family type atmosphere but there is no accountability in that.

bonesjackson - January 15, 2012 reply

And they didn't even mention Pioli's "pens" story from "War Room"

All of this was totally predictable for those that read and understood “War Room.” Many thought “War Room” was a puff piece on all involved. In the book, Scott Pioli proudly told the author that in an effort to save Clark Hunt’s money, he would diligently/obsessively collect all the pens after meetings.

Got that?

This was a close relative to the Star story about Pioli and candy wrappers.

For you young folks, watch the classic movie, “The Caine Mutiny.” Check out the Captain Queeg character.

Scott Pioli leaked negative stories about his head coach during the season. Any ethical and decent owner (who wasn’t in on it) would have fired Pioli on the spot. The fact that Scott Pioli is our GM says that either Hunt is a fool or he’s in on the dysfunction. Either way, Hunt is responsible for the dysfunction.

A blockbuster story that was predictable for those who have worked with this kind of personality.

As a nickname, should it be Scott “Pens” Pioli or Scott “Candy Wrapper” Pioli?

The man is out of his mind/league. He’s focused on ridiculous minutia.

are we now so glad that we're Patriots East!

just one more reason to detest the Pats and Hoodie …

not Brian Waters, of course … some things are sacred :-)

So War Room is automatically a puff piece. but this story is gospel truth because...why?

The poor fired people thought that someone could bug their personal cell phone? Really?

Did you know that supervisors are allowed to observe their employees and hold them accountable? All emails anywhere you work are archived and able to be reviewed at any time the company sees fit. Nothing you do at your job is private.

Beyond hearsay, there’s no evidence that Pioli and Hunt are evil. Babb just evokes that emotion by writing the story like a murder mystery novel.

accountability is all well and good ...

paranoia as described by several in this story is another matter altogether …

seriously … coffee expenses? candy wrappers in the stairwell? and this is worthy of detailed attention by a so-called GM?

And so a GM using devices he sees in an everyday environment as an example is...illegal?

Actually, while I find it a little unique, I think it’s a good way to make a point. A candy wrapper was an example. I know where I work would get on me too if I dropped a candy wrapper in the hallway and left it there.

But if that’s the biggest complaint, I rest my case. Pioli runs a tight ship, and he took a very loose, money sinking ship and a lot of the old “But Carl let us to it” people didn’t like the tightening.

BTW, that picture is what Babb's hit piece is like.

Rhetorical flash with no substance.

Why didn't Pioli pick it up and throw it away?

Is that beneath Bossman levels to do a little janitorial work?

that would require him to do more than one thing within the organization ...

… and it’s not in his contract ;)

Secrecy? ITS WONKA VISION

All he needs is just a few of those orange face fellows.

aPacificChief - January 16, 2012 reply

It’s so easy to stop and pick up a candy wrapper, yet if you’ve so many employees willing to overlook something so obvious and easy to correct… If the idea is integrity, accountability, and attention to detail, then it most certainly is a coaching moment. Changing the culture. right?

From one extreme to the other. Herm to Haley. Peterson to Pioli. And everything in-between. Shrug.

ArrowSpread - January 15, 2012 reply

Yep.

exactly.

cept the employees did not care about a candy wrapper when their job is to not pick up candy wrappers

Just like Scott apparently.

Do you want Janitors scouting players? or Secretaries signing contracts? a maybe cooks watching over line drills?

Get real already

Actually the whole "It's not my job" mentality is exactly the kind of thing this example is supposed to address.

I’ve seen it at two different previous jobs. There are multiple “right way”s to do thing. This can be one of them.

Now it can be argued whether they’re doing it well / effectively.

so it wasn't Pioli's job either, is that it?

others should pick up something but he shouldn’t have to … instead making it the centerpiece of a meeting of people with … one would assume … have better things to do than have to pass along a “memo” to the effect that everyone should pick up their own trash

somehow this doesn’t sound any kind of “right” anything

He should have picked up all the trash laying around

brought it to the meeting and Said

“Is this what I need to be doing with my time, cleaning up after all of you?”

That would have got my attention

well sure, he could have any number of routes other than playing Spy Games day after day

corporate email would have been much faster … but then, I guess Pioli has nothing better to do than micromanage trash in the stairwells

thank heaven that’s making our team so much better!

It all depends Ups.

Whether that wrapper was a snickers or baby ruth. A snickers wrapper should never miss the trash can but a baby ruth wrapper can be discarded anywhere without prejudice.

Mr.Pibbs - January 15, 2012 reply

As long as there's not an actual Baby Ruth bar in the pool

That changes the whole dynamic.

Yes sir. That would require dna samples.

Mr.Pibbs - January 15, 2012 reply

Paranoia is...

…what people who don’t want to be accountable feel when that’re made to act that way…

Candy wrapper is a great example. How many times do you walk by a piece of trash on the floor in the office that you work? People who take pride in their work & workplace would not tolerate such a thing. This is the sort of attention to detail that works in changing a culture of entitlement…

Yep

Pioli should lead by example not Rod

Agree with this

Seems to me that our house needed to be cleaned out. I appreciate having a GM & Owner who practice attention to detail & accountablility. I’m held accountable at my office…

The difference with where we work and the Chiefs is that where we work doesn't have people whose sole job it is to drub up drama.

IE who media organizations dedicated to covering our places of business.

I hope the clowns in the media don’t run my beloved team, and the people trying to run it, out of town.

Yep

I’m so glad

I think there is some trash to pick up

get to it dudes

I'll do it, why don't you just keep sitting on your ass.

Super Gnat - January 17, 2012 reply

LOL so this is the franchise we support??

Wow it’s like u are finding out about your cheating girlfriend!

NJChieffan16 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Yeah and she was so paranoid

she was spying on YOU, tracking YOUR phone, bugging YOUR car… All because SHE was the one cheating… WOW just wow. Why do I feel like I need a shower after reading that story?

KSU-Chief - January 15, 2012 reply

Why the hell would you sign a confidentiality agreements before you were let go???

I can see signing one before you are hired just in case but what are they going to do if you didnt sign it? FIRE YOU AGAIN?

KSU-Chief - January 15, 2012 reply

You value your kneecaps?

Why the hell would you sign a confidentiality agreements before you were let go???

wow, yanno ... maybe the wrong guy got fired

Severance package.

Exactly

Also, many companies put it in your employment contract.

It's often tied to severance packages

If you don’t sign it, no severance.

Big Chief - January 15, 2012 reply

Quit whining employees!!!

WIN US A CHAMPIONSHIP AND THEN MAYBE THE RULES WILL CHANGE!!! UNTIL THEN, “INTEGRITY, ACCOUNTABILITY AND ATTENTION TO DETAILS!!!”

kc_balla_89 - January 15, 2012 reply

?

I didn’t know Pioli posted on this site.

He's everywhere. Didn't you read the article?

I didn’t know Pioli posted on this site.

shhhhhhhhhhh!

not here … meet me outside, later … SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Lets take seperate cars, and meet at the secret pizza joint.

Oh wait that place is bugged… DAMN YOU WEISS!

ravenhawk - January 15, 2012 reply

shame, I was craving pizza, too!

No shit

It’s a telling attitude. If they had any pride in the organization they would be glad this was going on.

fishhooks - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Typical response from the Arrowhead Pride Pioli Homer Group

“This is what it takes to win!”
“Pack of lies from disgruntled employees!”

etc, etc.

This is not one or two disgruntled employees. This is more than two dozen employees. That is just the ones that weren’t afraid of losing their jobs if it was found out they talked.

That is a legitimate issue.

I work at a company that has just had a major change in management from a coddling, overindulgant manager to a new one that fired 50% of the front office staff and completely changed the culture of the company.

Yes there were disgruntled people for a year or two. Now, 3 years down the road, the employees that are left have bought in and the business is succesful. The paranoia that was there at first has subsided.

Why is that not the case with the Chiefs? There’s something more there.

Or maybe we expect more evidence than just disgruntled fired employees in an age discrimination lawsuit against the Chiefs.

I bet you go to any group of fired employees in any company and you can get similar sob stories. Why does Romeo Crennel seem to get along so well? Why do the players seem to be so happy?

There are a select group of people saying this stuff, and they happen to be involved in a lawsuit against the organization.

Or maybe what REALLY transpired was absolutely necessary for whatever reason.

I’m not going to pretend to know based on some he said she said crap.

yeah cause we are awesome now because of it all

wait till they lowball Carr and he goes somewhere else

chadb - January 15, 2012 reply

Hell of a lot better than we were.

This team is on the rise.

Yes comparing what we were before Pioli took over to what we are right now should almost be a crime.

There is no comparison.

And the end always justifies the means,,,

I don't see the means as a problem.

Of course I wasn’t fired by the team either.

to DJ

more times than not the company fails with the new Mgmt idea too

So, your example has as much weight as those that didn’t work.

I can vouch that Babb has 1st hand knowledge of new regimes working for the KC Star

Are you referring to the two dozen employees of which only 4 or 5 had names

or is it all those wonderful “unnamed sources” the press loves so much?

HughSchloobie - January 15, 2012 reply

Now many voices/names did you see when Nixon came crashing down?

less than 10?

Deep Throat

Is that their real name?

The Smoking Man says probably not :)

wow, this sounds like it's going to be VERY interesting ... on the way over now and thank you, Joel!

although, we have our very own candidate for story of the year by electriclight … if you haven’t read THIS excellent post, well … Must See TV … or blog, or something like that

Thanks

I changed the title which perhaps was scaring away readers.

An excellent post

And that's the problem with math teachers...

Scott wants to know, like as a math teacher, ‘How did you get to your problem; how did you get to the answer of the problem?’

This is not modern management, Goldman-Sachs be damned. Companies that want to succeed try to give employees freedom to grow, freedom to collaborate, and OMG yes, occasionally freedom to fail as part of the creative thinking process.

Very true

The Sachs idea of management has been largely left by the wayside in favor of more power given to lower management (as in the people on the “front lines”).

Off the subject

But I was reading the Pat/Denver thread from last night and many of the posts were priceless.

Thanks for the laughs.

Zayla - January 15, 2012 reply

Like this one!

By 71-South: “The last time I saw a donkey get humiliated this bad I was in Juarez” I about died!

Wichita Chief - January 15, 2012 reply

Gracias! I giggled when I typed it.

71-South - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

Back to the subject, it will be interesting if this becomes a national story

Wow.

The playoffs are going on

So it won’t get the attention that it would at other points of the year.

Joel Thorman - January 15, 2012 reply

this is surreal ... it's like Alice in Wonderland meets Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy

Yes, I expect actual evidence because I'm dumb.

Okay.

Absolutely, I must be a dummy, too...

HughSchloobie - January 15, 2012 reply

It's in Black and White and Read all over

what the more can you want.

Transcripts, braille readers, sheeeeese guys

Management dudes screw up all the time

I'm Brian, and so's my wife...

R8R H8R - January 16, 2012 reply

I'm compelled to rec any Life of Brian references.

TRSChief - January 16, 2012 reply

And it's such an important story

that Nick Wright teased that he won’t talk about till HIS SHOW is on on Monday afternoon.

Yes folks, it’s that important. haha

right

Important to his interests, not so much for fans

BTW, sorry for typos this morning.

I’m drinking my coffee now.

Inevitable, not interesting

Lombardi will be mining this expose for the next 6 months at least.

Kane - January 15, 2012 reply

Disgruntled employees

What type of response do you expect when you interview a bunch of people who were just fired or asked to resign? Clearly they aren’t happy with the way things ended.

A new GM means a regime change and everyday operations are going to change. Pioli obviously runs a tighter ship than Peterson. He saw positions that weren’t required and room for increased efficiency in other areas. Pioli seems obsessive-compulsive, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing if you’re managing an organization.

Although the article says there hasn’t been a significant improvement in the W-L column, there was last year and we also managed to win 7 games this year (the low-end of what many thought we would win) with a ton of injuries and a harder schedule. I’d be willing to bet that next year we’re back in the double-digit wins and these complainers will look like dead weight that weren’t needed.

people at the top covering up and denying everything ...

… Nixon and his crew did the same thing … Watergate, maybe you’ve heard of it

what kind of response do you expect when a bunch of people are paranoid and power-hungry and have authority like Pioli & Co … clearly Donovan and others are just covering up what’s going on behind the scenes and of course they can’t and won’t say anything else with the lawsuits pending

Let's see how the lawsuit plays out

Pretty bold allegations by these former employees. If they can prove something, then maybe there is a problem with management and something needs to change.

If they can’t prove anything, we likely won’t hear any more “news” about the lawsuit or any other former employees complaining about an organization that just fired them.

And I guarantee that if the Chiefs have a good season next year, Pioli & Co will be praised by everybody and their dog for the way they turned this origination around.

you're looking at an organization that cut the pay of ordinary office staff during the lockout ... in the middle of a recession

to save a couple of dollars during a time when the team doesn’t earn money to begin with, as there are no games played in the spring and summer … and tried to “justify” it with some BS about “losing money due to the lockout”

I guarantee Pioli, Donovan, et al didn’t take a pay cut …

the lawsuit is only a few people on the age discrimination part, this story is about a LOT more going on, and things said by a LOT more than 3 people … wake up to reality

I'll "wake up to reality"

and believe the current employees that were interviewed who said that there is nothing wrong with the way things are currently managed, instead of believing pissed off employees who were fired either because the previous administration carried too much dead weight or because they weren’t doing their job. Someone there has bias against management: can you pick which one?

You keep comparing this to the Watergate scandal and saying its about A LOT more than the lawsuit. Do you really think this is compared to the President covering up the government’s involvement in a burglary? This is about a new management style that didn’t see the need for certain positions and didn’t think some employees were doing their job properly. When those employees got fired, they saw a opportunity to file a lawsuit and did it.

If this lawsuit fails, what’s your evidence that this administration is part of a scandal? The complaints of fired employees?

what did you expect them to say? "yeah, we do stupid and sometimes illegal stuff, but it's ok because candy wrappers are detrimental to the football team!"

the current employees that were interviewed who said that there is nothing wrong with the way things are currently managed

as for Watergate, it’s an analogy … I realize this is about “management style” (age discrimination notwithstanding) but the point remains: those involved in covering up surreptitious activity that’s generally frowned upon by the general public (you know, like bugging offices and listening to employee conversations" will generally deny that they do anything like that …

… just like Nixon and his henchmen denied any involvement with the Watergate break-in and burglary … the parallel is too obvious to overlook

I guess we're both just on opposite sides of the fence

Like my original post said, and to use your way of stating it, what do you expect an employee who was just fired to say when interviewed? “Ya, I really didn’t do my job. I spent a lot of time on facebook and twitter. I guess that’s frowned upon?” or “I don’t really know what my position was with the Chiefs. I didn’t really have much to do while I worked there. I guess Scott found out realized that.”

I’d prefer to believe the current employees over the former employees.

They actually admit to some of it, they just try to minimize it.

They admit that it's a tight ship, yes.

And they don’t have a problem with it.

obviously we don't need those worthless Janitors at Arrowhead

Scott’s management team should be picking up the trash. You are jumping to conclusions that those positions didn’t need staffing. And you are jumping to conclusions that just the do nothings felt the pressure. The damn Head Coach felt it so are you saying he did nothing and needed phased out?

Really

WTF are you saying here?

See Steve ... the thing with the candy wrappers.

It would never even occur to me to just throw a candy wrapper on the floor, nor even the ground outside! that’s just kinda low class in general.

Anywho, I also don’t get this presumption that EVERY employee that gets fired is simply fired because they are the lazy, do-nothing losers at work. To just ASSUME that everyone is fired because they are that is total bullshit!

Age discrimination is rampant now. Being discriminated against and getting harassed to the point you quit, or are inevitably fired, because you’re fat is rampant. Not toeing and conforming to the party line period is grounds for getting the axe. Or just not fitting in with everybody else will get you the same treatment. And for many years now, just cutting the number of employees to reduce costs period is the ONLY reason.

Actually, if you’re the ass kisser, you get to keep your job even if you don’t do much – except personal favors and errands for your boss. And then you even get promoted! And then you get to do even less!

Well said. Self-promotion counts for a lot more than honest work.

Actually, if you’re the ass kisser, you get to keep your job even if you don’t do much – except personal favors and errands for your boss. And then you even get promoted! And then you get to do even less!

electriclight - January 16, 2012 reply

One side of that fence is not comparing a football team trying to stay competitive to election fraud.

Amen

haha.

Nice, and exactly right.

Listen to Ups on this

What you just read is a gold mine for the 3 who have filed age discrimination cases. They have been presented with their witness lists, because when those cases arrive in court, the type of behavior that is described in this story is precisely what will persuade a federal court jury that the organization is out of control. It’s an environment of distrust, paranoia, and overreaching that will play beautifully. I would suspect, now that these issues are being aired for all to see, that Clark won’t be able to settle these claims, and eventually the whole ugly mess is going to be laid out in court. That’s a good news, bad news deal for us fans. Good news, if you’re a liberal fan of justice like me, because I like seeing the little guy prevail over management goons. Bad news, if you’re a life-long fan like me, because nasty problems like this tend to distract ownership and management from the one task we want them devoted to…winning. The image I’m getting about Pioli is that he’s the type who will spend more time trying to win the lawsuits, seeing them as candy-wrappers on his stairway of life, than on doing what he was hired to do.

trlwyr - January 15, 2012 reply

well said! the fact that there's ANY story on this at all is disturbing to say the least ...

The image I’m getting about Pioli is that he’s the type who will spend more time trying to win the lawsuits, seeing them as candy-wrappers on his stairway of life, than on doing what he was hired to do.

This is a better football team because of Pioli.

It doesn’t get that way if he isn’t doing his job.

Haley made this a better football team

Pioli did not win a single game

Steve, that's not true

Pioli gave us Tyler Palko!

And Haley started him.

MassChief - January 16, 2012 reply

Hahaha.

I disagree

The employees who filed the suit are throwing out some pretty serious allegations that aren’t easy to prove. And remember, they have to prove their allegations on a balance of probabilities before the Chiefs even have to say a word. More evidence than a few former employee’s word is going to be needed.

I don’t think this lawsuit is going to lead to anything except a few lawyers making a bit of money. My bet is that we don’t hear much more about it anymore.

or not so serious.

Haha

I didn’t mean serious in the public sense. I meant in the legal sense. A discrimination based claim is generally pretty serious in terms of remedies and required prove. This is why I don’t think they will win and this will not be serious in terms of the Chief’s image.

Bravo! Bravo! Trl!

Nice to see another on here that generally hates management assholes with a fervent passion … maybe about as much as I do, lol. I’m so lucky now to have finally gotten a job doing some of what I love … and a really HELLA cool to the rad max so-called “boss.” Of course … I’m one of those lazy, worthless, evil, pernicious gubmint workers. (satanic smile).

I find it so ironic that all these supposed constitutional and human rights we have in this country automatically become null and void the minute you step inside your employer’s door??? And for many … your employer – and even ex-employers – control your life 24/7 outside their doors as well. Yes, being a slave has several degrees to the institution, actually – and sadly. (le sigh)

The American "Libertarian" Paradox

Unlimited freedom when interacting with the government! But shrinking the government and its impact on the workplace so far that the guarantee from those freedoms has almost no place in the everyday life of most people! We are the only first-world nation not to guarantee vacation hours to all workers (in Europe, its 4-6 in every nation, plus 8-13 mandated holidays on top), the least workplace guarantees, least generous maternal/paternal leave rules, not to mention the “right to work” states. I worked in a corporate environment for two years and went from being a moderate quasi-libertarian to pretty much a Socialist. I know my response is political, but, to me, “government is what governs you”, and my workplace governed me a heck of a lot more than the federal or state government – and what little the government DID govern actually provided me with MORE rights and freedoms in dealing with my employer and landlord.

Reading this all just makes me sad about the Chiefs. Ugh.

*freedoms have

*wait, I was wrong - I had it right.

it was guarantee….has. Just looked awkward. /self-grammar Nazi.

I've never had issues with the big, bad gummint restricting my personal freedoms

I have had issues with the lies of certain top elected “leaders” … but in terms of my personal life, no infringements whatsoever …

what I have seen, of course, is the fed selling out to the highest bidder again and again, setting the bottom line corporations up for every success at the expense of the rest of us 99 %-ers … and the beat goes on

Au contraire fer me, Twisted Lord!

I have LOTS and LOTS of issues with those that want to infringe upon my freedom and right to CHOOSE what I want to do, and how I want to live. Lots and lots of issues with them then buying off the gubmint to force me into conforming with their religious morality, and/or social-cultural lifestyles, and/or political beliefs.

I wish to give others their rights and freedoms to live the way they want – even if I don’t, and have no interest, in believing nor doing their stuff. But, they sure as hell better wish to grant me the same freedoms to believe and live my life the way I want to, as well.

ahhhhhhhhhhh but the ones who seem to want to limit my freedoms (and yours) aren't the gummint peoples

it’s them right-sided peoples who want to make it illegal to do what you want by legalizing morality

Nah, right and left both insist on limiting freedoms

Just different ones, and for different reasons.

Heh. DJ Uppers ...

The left-siders want to do exactly the same things as the right-siders – just about differing things. ;+)

And yes, many gubmint wokers are bureaucrats that purposely infiltrate and change the gubmint system to force their beliefs on society thru the brute force of government and law. And then you have the politicians that are supposedly “democratically” elected that are bought off by special interests groups wanting all kinds of things. That’s ONE reason why labor unions, civil rights groups or any other socio-cultural group HAVE to amass money to get their rights granted and/or protected to them; they gotta buy off the politicians to write, introduce and support the legislation! Or appoint the judges, or appoint the executives and bureaucrats.

For instance, I’m an absolute believer in the right to bear arms – and thus the right to self-defense. And even have a CCW permit because of all the whackjobs that live and run around here; meth cookers, pot growers, burglars and robbers. I DO NOT want to be automatically FORCED to be possibly a helpless victim of those types. I just have the right to have a chance at a fighting chance of defending myself. And so does any other decent person.

Just because some don’t believe in self-defense, or don’t like guns, or don’t have any desire to own a gun doesn’t mean they have the RIGHT to take away my rights to self-defense and gun ownership. Just as I don’t have the RIGHT to FORCE them to own and carry a gun! Its a RIGHT to the FREEDOM of CHOICE too, or not.

Now, however, the question becomes: to what degree does the gubmint have a reasonable right and responsibility to regulate my right own and carry a gun – for the protection of others in society? Yes, I fully support background checks trying to make sure that VIOLENT felons, and/or individuals with a verified history of VIOLENT mental conditions just can’t walk into a gun store and buy a gun no questions asked.

And in my case, to get a CCW, I had to: complete what’s supposed to be a more thorough background check than this computerized insta-check that gun stores do, and had to go take and pass a gun safety course out here at the local rod and gun club before I could get the permit. I had no problem with doing those things – although I sure as hell didn’t like paying the gun club 300 bucks for the course! And 75 bucks to the state for the permit, lol.

But I think that’s an example of REASONABLE regulations and requirements to exercise my right to own and carry a firearm for self-defense; they don’t absolutely ABOLISH my right to! But many want to absolutely abolish my right to … and that’s what’s WRONG and UNACCEPTABLE to and for me!

and what about the right to arm bears? they deserve protection, too!

I’m an absolute believer in the right to bear arms

the problem isn’t the regulations, Loco … it’s the fact that we NEED to have regulations to begin with

then too, there’s something to be said for the idea of EVERYONE owning a gun … then if someone is rude, just shoot ‘em, one less rude person in the world … imagine how polite we’d all be!

the thing that strikes me is that some erstwhile conservatives claim to want less gov’t control of our lives, but then turn around around and want the gov’t to outlaw what THEY don’t want ME to do

I have never ever bought into that bullshit that GUN NUTZZZ ...

spout about – an armed society is a polite society. If people have to be forced to be polite to each other for fear of being shot – then there’s a REALLY big problem with that society at its CORE!

idea of EVERYONE owning a gun … then if someone is rude, just shoot ‘em, one less rude person in the world … imagine how polite we’d all be!

And yeah – there’s HUGE problems with American society at its core. One is being utterly, absolutely, patently being enamored with all kinds of VIOLENCE – in movies, on tv, and video games. And then there’s a HUGE problem with all the people we have in this nation that ARE violent!

I remember the stories my grandparents told me how country people used to treat each other … and as compared to how much worse it had been getting in their lifetimes. And it just keeps on getting worse and worse in my lifetime. And yes – the pathetic and evil state of how people treat each other now is the PRIMARY problem! And the reason why I’m just paranoid and scairt enough to pack heat when I go to the National Forest land around here to hike and fish. Now, my pistol stays locked up in my truck toolbox when I go into town; I don’t have it shoved down my pants every time I go into Wally World or the gas station, or the auto and tractor parts store, lol … or take my daughter to the movies and out to eat at Applebees, lol … or at work.

Plus, since I live a 1/2 mile down my own private lane from the dead end of the a public gravel road, I ain’t too scairt about anybody comin’ up here and robbin’ me, or rippin’ off my stuff when I ain’t home; plus I got 4 dogs standing guard at all times (yeah … right!). But if you live on the highway, or just off the gravel roads around here – or have a weekend cabin that’s right on the road – the thefts and burglaries are becoming more and more common, year after year. Yeah … all this violence and property crimes are the symptoms of all the underlying problems that are breaking families and people down worse and worse, year after year. Its all tragic and damn cryin’ shame!

preachin' to the choir, my friend

If people have to be forced to be polite to each other for fear of being shot – then there’s a REALLY big problem with that society at its CORE

but that isn’t the Gun Club’s idea, that’s mine … you know I is twisted! I’d so love to see Granny down the street waste a couple of punks who cut in front of her at the ticket line in the mall for the movies … seriously, thin out the shallow end of the gene pool

it is sad, man … all the way around, shame that it’s come to all this for anyone and everyone

Yeah ... but I'm more TWISTED than you are! :=P

For example: If American society and Americans conducted themselves and treated each other in the manner that the Japanese were reported to have done towards each other after the Tsunami last year – then I reckon I wouldn’t feel the need to pack. Simply because I wouldn’t fear what other people MIGHT do to me, my daughter, my best friend and his family, my dogs and critters, or my property.

Guns are simply a tool to me. Its been along time since I’ve hunted, and I don’t even target shoot much anymore. Guns are simply a tool to me … but yeah … like a lot of sports … they still are just kind of fun for me to shoot … every once in awhile. ;=)

BTW: Can you imagine what Americans would be doing to each other after something like the disaster that struck Japan!?!?!

Guns or no guns … Americans would be grabbing and fashioning anything available that could be used as a weapon – to start stabbing, clubbing and beating each other to death. And stealing everything they could get there hands on as fast as possible. The Rodney King riots, New Orleans, and that massive blackout in NYC back in the 70’s already proved that would, and will be, the case. YUP! You bet your ass I’m afraid of Americans!

You don't understand what you're talking about.

an armed society is a polite society. If people have to be forced to be polite to each other for fear of being shot – then there’s a REALLY big problem with that society at its CORE!

Passing laws that restrict law-abiding citizens from owning guns for the purposes of protection is nothing more than shifting the responsibility of threat by violence to the police force rather than the individual. Politeness is a response to understanding that you can’t take what you want by force. Whether the individual or the state is entrusted with defending the individual from the force of another is simply a matter of efficiency. Entrusting it to the state is less efficient, as the force is smaller and less dedicated to your individual protection.

So-called “GUN NUTZZZ” are often less fascinated by violence than those that are not. An affinity and respect for the tool does not translate to a murderous and violent nature. There is no evidence to support that. I know hundreds of people that you would classify as “GUN NUTZZZ,” none of whom have committed a murder or gun-related violence.

The loss of manners in society is an issue created by an aversion for authority and a loss of responsibility to the society. For decades now we have been taught that we owe nothing back to our society and that we should have an expectation that society should take care of us. A little personal responsibility would go a long way toward correcting that issue.

thank you! THIS is what I meant when I was talking about lack of responsibility in students earlier

honestly, the things I have to do to get you young’uns to see the light! (angelic smile)

The education system that has been bred for quite some time now ....

is the reason I don’t get involved. Contrary to popular belief, the difference in money is not the primary factor that would keep me from teaching. The system that you described earlier, the lack of responsibility that parents take for their children’s education, and the lack of responsibility that parents instill in their children for their own education are the primary reasons I wouldn’t last very long.

BWHAHAHA!!! Dude, I've always loved that saying!

and what about the right to arm bears? they deserve protection, too!

But when Iived out in Cali and Wyoming, I came damn close to already experiencing the genetic arms that bear’s bear! Which is another reason why I packed heat when lived out in bear and cougar country. I also carried bear spray, as well. Hey … if someone ever finally develops and sells a NON-LETHAL weapon that will ABSOLUTELY knock a bear, cougar or person out for an hour – and you can use it like a gun, with the same price as a gun – then I’m there buyin’ it with bells on, and damn happy about havin’ it. Yeah, give me one of those damn Star Trek phaser-stunner guns! Guns are just a tool to me; nothing more, nothing less.

I work for MO. Dept.of Conservation now. But one of my internships was in Wyoming working with the WSC helping Wyoming Fish and Game trap Blackies – and a couple of effin’ Grizz too. The other was with Cali Dept. of Fish and Game doing the same. Helped trap’em in the pipes, and tree’em with coonhounds. Then helped sedate’em, weigh’em, measure’em and examine’em. And also helped them track the radio collared ones too. And I also got an overnight job at a big ol’ dude ranch outside Yellowstone hazing bears away from their campgrounds, buildings, trash bins and the dumb city slickers during the night and such.

So I’m VERY, VERY much in support of protecting bears! Protecting them from poaching, and expanding their numbers and range within reason, ect. BUT! That doesn’t mean I was going to just let any bear (or cougar) attack me, or anyone I was with, or maybe was in my vicinity of me. Nor my dogs neither! I don’t like people none to much in general, but I DO place human life above animal life if it comes down to that. But if the bears don’t attack me, then I ain’t gonna hurt them either.

Oh hell … I could talk about bear, wolf and canine behavior … and all the rest of this stuff until the cows come home. Maybe I’ll shoot ya’ an email sometime to continue this argument, lol. Beisides … ya shor do gots a purty mouth! (wink, wink)

I'm as old as dirt. Grew up reading outdoor mags.

I’ve been warned they are coming for my guns since I could walk. For some reason no one has come for my guns yet. I am slowly coming around to the idea that no one gives a damn about my 12 gauge pump and my 30-06.

scare tactics

the NRA is good at those

Ohh ... screw the NRA.

Why can’t we have a pro-gun rights group that isn’t an extremist one? One that doesn’t involve and push a whole umbrella of other religious, political and socio-cultural dogmas and ideologies they want to force everybody to live by.

It would be a refreshing change to have a moderate group that just focuses on securing those specific rights period. And is inclusive of any race, religion, political party affiliation, and socio-cultural demographic.

If you don’t match the NRA’a accepted social demographic, and proselytize the greater evangelical christian and neo-conservative agenda for them and their satellite pals, then the NRA HATES you! And you are their ENEMY!

I wouldn’t suggest going to an NRA meeting and telling them you’re a muslim! LOL!!!

Yeah, I agree with much of what you say, kw.

My beliefs and philosophies are all over the place. I’ll never understand why being labeled a liberal, or conservative or libertarian has to include all these ideologies, dogmas and political movements that one must conform to and support – even though many seem to be an unrelated hodge podge of stuff?

I’d say I’m mostly a moderate on just about everything … except for some things I believe in so passionately that I’d be labeled an extremist by all sides on two or three things, and another, lol. And, I have these internal conflicts between believing/living/doing what seems to be logical/ reasonable/rational and is right … and what my emotions believe and want to do to about some things, and about some people, lol.

I have big problems with the draconian governmental police state we live in now restricting many of my personal freedoms that I believe in and want to practice. And also giving others to have the freedom (even if they are different from my beliefs/lifestyle, ect.) of CHOICE to practice what they believe and how they want to live. Don’t tread on me, and I won’t tread on you!

But I also have big problems with our draconian economical pressures, corp/business environments/working conditions, and private property/business owners that are also landlords (or essentially landlords) that people of less means and power are subjected to. I believe that once a private property and/or business owner opens up their business and property for others to work and live for/on, then they give up some of THEIR rights to accommodate the RIGHTS of employees and occupants of their business and property. Sooo … we need some entity with the power to protect those rights thru regulations/oversight/laws?

So far … since the practices and beliefs of employers and landlords – that they have the ABSOLUTE power and RIGHT to RULE over “their” employees and tenants as nothing more than servants, slaves and serfs – have never changed … the various labor and civil rights movements have always had to turn to buying off the power of politicians and the government to secure their rights and freedoms. It would be nice if those with more of everything would be benevolent souls to those with less, and “gubmints” wouldn’t even be needed … but it ain’t never gonna happen.

To go into specifics about all this with me would become a never ending story, lol. Ideally, I wish everyone could own their own home/property, own their own business, and work for themselves. But in a country with 320 millionish people now … that’s just not possible even if everybody did want those same things. (le sigh)

Sounds like Nirvana

I have never had a problem adhering to my employers rules of work, I will also do anything they ask me to do as they need done. But I have the right to do whatever within legal limits I can get away with while not on the Job.

Umm ... well human nature will never allow for Nirvana on Earth, nor in this life, sadly.

OMG, Steveo … I’ve had big problems with this stuff a lot in my life, lol.

I have never had a problem adhering to my employers rules of work, I will also do anything they ask me to do as they need done.

But I’ve worked sooo freakin’ many bottom-of-totem-pole blue-collar jobs during my wanderings around that also involved working with some major league idiots, and for some MAJOR LEAGUE assholes! And I have a big problem with authority … and assholes at any level treating people like crap! Plus I just hate doing any job that I don’t like, lol.

And I despise inane bureaucrats and bureaucratic rules. That Catch-22 book and movie really hit home for me. And especially Yossarian! Damn it … that Yossarian is damn near a non-military vet version of me, lol. Love Yosarrian. :+)

Yep! Yep! Hear! Hear!

But I have the right to do whatever within legal limits I can get away with while not on the Job.

Of course, many things that are illegal … SHOULD NOT be! So you have a right to do those as well. Just don’t get caught, or surround yourself with snitches. ;=)

I get you, I do.

I’m certainly against the police state. I was interim legal director of the West Virginia ACLU in fact. So, I understand what you mean. And I certainly believe that the government SHOULD adhere strongly to anti-discrimination statues and get out of legislating any kind of “Morality” that doesn’t involve harm to others. I just tend to see a lot of what private property and business (big, medium, and even medium-small) doing as legitimately and directly harmful and can’t get on board with the kindof anarcho-capitalist sentiments that are often marketed as “freedom” without looking into the meaningful, tangible aspects of freedom that such systems necessarily entail.

Agreed

A salary or hourly slave should have some honour too and rec Loco

Thank you, Steveo.

Have a great Monday. :+)

But unless you can show there's something illegal about that, Ups, there really isn't a point.

There’s nothing illegal about running a tight ship. If you don’t want to work in that environment, don’t.

And it’s telling that after the lockout, the organization reimbursed what was cut during the lockout, and gave the employees a raise.

it isn't a matter of legality ... it's a matter of misplaced priorities and rampant distrust

this is dysfuntion at the highest levels of authority, paranoia and then some … and this is supposed to be helpful to the organization? you think this is how a good business is run?

this is the same organization that was ready to charge firefighters to attend a game where they were to be honored before said game … yeah, some REAL every day heroes, now let’s charge them money to see the actual game … what wonderful standards and priorities!

oh, but wait! it’s all good because they eventually did get in free … what was that? oh, that was only AFTER the whole sordid affair was made public in the press? oh yeah, that’s right!

once again our free press does its job … sad to say it’s uncovering the ugly side of this organization, but I’m glad it’s getting out in the open for people to see what’s going on … I can’t wait for the spin control that’s going to follow all this

so

anything they say will be spin control?

“this story is not true” – spin control
“this story is true” – THEY ADMITTED IT!

couldn’t it be a bit of both? Pioli in trying to change the culture took things too far, and most former employees fired from their jobs have nothing nice to say about their former employer?

I tend to think the truth lies somewhere in between

Once again

There’s only “distrust, paranoia, and misplaced priorities” within the organization if you believe the unproven allegations of employees who were handed their walking papers. None of this is proven.

You can believe them if you want, but just remember they aren’t facts. They are just as factual as Pioli & Co’s denials at this point.

And to add on what fongKC just said, when the media goes running to Arrowhead Drive and presses for answers to questions relating to this and they respond by saying “this story isn’t true”, then that’s spin control?

With you Ups on this. Most cap room, no good backups, it all fits.

have you considered that htere may have been a reason for the mistrust.

The employees who are still there

seem to be doing just fine.

ok, Pioli, we get it already...

planb247 - January 15, 2012 reply

I have a hard time believing this organization discriminates based on age

Our OC was 120 years old :)

I thought it was ironic that there's a question of a 46 year old GM being ageist against people 40+

Anything’s possible I guess, but if it were true – oh the irony.

Watergate?? Really?

Are you sure a Presidential cover-up of stealing files apropos to former employees airing their grievances?

HughSchloobie - January 15, 2012 reply

nice job of missing the point

Disgruntled employees claim "bad work environment"!

The recently released claim “ruthless bosses with total disregard to their employees”!

The long tenured being replaced by new blood under a new regime claim “a hit squad sent out to relieve the company of anyone that had been there longer than 6 months”!

The lazy, unaccountable, and unproductive who are expected to become the opposite claim “paranoia, secrecy, and a CIA-like mentality that taps personal phones, bugs homes, and implants taking devices under skin”!

The local media with little to no access to the info that sells their product gathers unhappy former employees, after being fired from the company they seek the info from, to talk about their former employer claims "highly illegal, human rights violations where they do weird experiments on puppies and feed the employees ‘solvent green’ "!

News at 11!

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

denial ... it worked for Nixon :-)

We anxiously await the federal investigation into these reasonable and non-bias claims from former employees with absolutely no motive to tarnish the organization

Where is David Frost when you need him?

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

UPS seems sure that the Federal investigation into the Arrowhead Drive Scandal

is forthcoming. I can’t wait! I wonder if Obama is involved!

Rec'd.

The common denominator in all of these people...

They never worked for a Fortune 500 company.

ravenhawk - January 15, 2012 reply

I did

till management fucked that up and got us de-listed.

Stock was like 40 bucks then 40 cents

Can’t really imagine what that feels like till you do it :(

I've worked at a couple...

They definitely have a different atmosphere about them.

ravenhawk - January 15, 2012 reply

Brother !!!

71-South - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

I think Haley was just paranoid

If he really believed his cell phone was bugged. The rest of it sounds like sour grapes from former employees to me.

chiefsrule! - January 15, 2012 reply

Just because you're paranoid - doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

I think Haley was just paranoid

you're not paranoid ...

… everyone really IS out to get you! :-)

I KNEW IT!!!

We all could see a big change in Haley. He was probably getting to much aclaim as

far as Pioli was concerned. If it was just one ot two disgruntled employees, that’s one thing but if you add up all the potential complaints, you might be talking dozens.

triple that

cause most people don’t talk about Ass-Rape

I guess the question would be

“What IF his cell phone was bugged? Who was he talking to and what was he saying that he should be concerned in the least?”

Thus, the defense of every fascist policy in history.

“If you don’t have anything to hide, then why can’t I look?” This assumes that privacy and independence have no value. It creates an air of distrust and it diminishes Haley’s position as a leader of his football team. These questions are indicative of oppressive ideas.

Heil Pioli

Disinfecting the Carl Peterson era...

Start with these facts…Carl bloated the organization to 155 "non-football" employees and sold Clark on building an 85,000 square foot office buiding. The 155 explains the huge office complex. Does anyone know how it takes 85,000 feet to produce winning football?

NOTE: this building doesn’t include the indoor practice facility.

As for Clark, surely he observed the intricasies of Carls kingdom and it took some time (several years) to figure it out enough to dismantle it. It needed dismantleing…the organization had tipped over too much to promotion and buzz and not enough of a winning football environment.

As for Pioli, he may or may not be the answer. His drafting has been disappointing and somethings stiil not clear about he and Haley’s relationship but Pioli came out of NE where it was reported that the Kraft family had become "very close" to the Hunts and had highly recommended Scott to Clark. Does anyone here question the success of the Kraft family? Hadn’t he also been elected "Executive of the Year" a couple of times by his peers? Also note that of the 2 remaining employees mentioned, 2 Spani and Winston are FOOTBALL people not PR types.

The former employees? I’m sensitive to these folks to some degree (as I prepare my $10,000 check for my renewal today ) but when there are 50+ too many (NON_FOOTBALL) people lurking around protecting their turf what else was Pioli to do but execute an aggressive house cleaning? When 40% of your organization is bloated and insecure it’s easy to imagine the bs and paranoia that would permeate the building. Hopefully it didn’t take the GS Program for Clark to know this….it’s just human nature. My guess is that when the staff found out what a lean org NE was that turmoil soon followed.

Although everyting is not clear with the office changes, THE BIG MYSTERY is the Haley demise. This is football centric and what real football people are wondering about….the administartive turnover is mostly a media vehicle for the off season.

Haley was Pioli’s hot commodity that was A TOP PLAY CALLER coming in. He proved to be a MOTIVATOR who demanded committment/ production from many underachivers (BOWE, D. JOHNSON, DORSEY, CHARLES) and got it. He produced a PLAYOFF season. INJURIES tanked the early part of this season. WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?

I want FOOTBALL ANSWERS not front office rumors and innuendo. After 50 years as a ticket holder I WANT WINS and if Piloi can’t get it done he can go too.

since63 - January 15, 2012 reply

Here is what really happened with Haley

For all his motivational skills, the claim that he was a “good play caller” was proved absolutely false.
For all the thoughts that he could become a good head coach, Haley quickly proved he was in over his head by wanting people he was familiar with instead of people that gave the team the best chance to win, and even when it was clearly determined they weren’t, he continued to go with them over other options.

His game decisions, in-game adjustments, and personnel decisions were downright terrible and embarrassing, and no amount of winning in one of his 3 seasons was going to change that fact.

That is what happened.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

If it is indeed true that Haley got mad that Weis was getting the credit for Cassel's improvement last year...

Then it’s not surprising Haley was paranoid.

Rev. Slappy - January 15, 2012 reply

Look at Haley's press conferences vs. RAC's.

People assumed it was Pioli who was paranoid and telling Haley what to say. Now it’s clear that it was Haley who was the paranoid one.

Haley was a terrific play caller with a true franchise QB

Pioli gave him Cassel

Nice try, Chiefs PR

LHO - January 15, 2012 reply

it was discovered that Haley was responsible for the candy wrapper ...

Haley was Pioli’s hot commodity that was A TOP PLAY CALLER coming in. He proved to be a MOTIVATOR who demanded committment/ production from many underachivers (BOWE, D. JOHNSON, DORSEY, CHARLES) and got it. He produced a PLAYOFF season. INJURIES tanked the early part of this season. WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?

YES!!! Explains everything.

That's a Wrap

/long loud groan

Rec'd & Greened

I don’t agree with all you said here, but agree with your impression of a bloated & ineffective administration.

Candy wrapper in stairwell this morning...

…expensive coffee in the machine. This franchise is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The parking lots are extended gutters and the gutters are full of barbecue sauce and when the drains finally congeal over, all the Chiefs fans will drown.

The accumulated filth of all their season tickets and playoff losses will foam up about their waists and all the true fans and draftniks will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll look down and whisper “No.”

Clay Wendler - January 15, 2012 reply

Awesome!

“who watches the front office?”

Mobile Rec

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

great reference

u rock sir

Haha

Impeccable timing.

As i just watched that again last night for the first time in about a year and a half.

KansasCityShuffle - January 15, 2012 reply

As for the AP offices

I’ve heard Callie is a real bitch

Ever read "In Search of Excellence"?

Scott Pioli is “In Search of Pens and Candy Wrappers.”

Our GM is an insecure micro-manager who has been Peter Principled.

He better find a franchise QB to cover up his personality flaws and dysfunctional organization.

Accountability is a bitch

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Accountability regarding

other peoples candy wrappers….but not an o-line.

LHO - January 15, 2012 reply

Hoisted on his own Petard

It was necessary it sounds.

It sounds like the people shown the door are whining, while others that left on their own accord didn’t see any issues. Typical employees and sounded like they needed to clean house from Peterson’s era. I think that whole article is a bunch of drama bs. These last couple months of comments it really sounds like some you hate this organization ie Pioli and Cassel. What happened to some unity and getting behind our team? Seriously just going to complain and turn your back on this team over some disgruntled employees and a not perfect QB? Just don’t know what to think about some of these comments. If you don’t like the leadership then why are you still supporting the team?

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 reply

The Chiefs are bigger than Pioli.

If you don’t like the leadership then why are you still supporting the team?

How much bigger are they than Clark Hunt?

Yep, I guess if you hate the Hunt family you shouldn't support the team.

well if fired former employees badmouthing trump everthing else you should

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

I didn't here any Clark hate in the article

and Cassel

Rec Lightening

Sounds like a bunch of lazy, whiny employees

who are mad because they were actually being asked to do their job to the best of their ability.

chiefFANatic - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

sounds to me like our GM is off his rocker

Why is a GM obsessing over candy wrappers and pens and if people call him by his last name when he should be obsessing over personnel, drafts, trades, free agents, scouting the coaching staff.

If focusing on candy wrappers and pens is what makes a good GM, Clark can go to Disney World and hire his next GM from their janitorial staff.

You gotta love the extreme ignoring of the obvious and unassumed good accomplished when the media claims unsubstantiated bad

Mission accomplished, local media

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

It does seem there is a vendetta here. It's the KC sports media that is out of control.

Maybe what transpired was necessary.

Why didn't Pioli pick up the wraper?

I thought the article said that he did,

and that he put it in an envelope to be discussed at a meeting?

After a week of not picking it up.

He did at the end of the week, yes.

yes but i'm kind of confused why that matters.

its not like that was a strange management style… to watch an ongoing problem and wait to see how long it takes to be taken care of. even if just a small one.

if i were new to leadership, i would want to know how my employees handled this kind of stuff as well.

this is all just a doubled edge sword.

attention to detail is amazing when you are winning. when you aren’t, it’s keeping you back.

come on people the candy wrapper didn’t REALLY prevent him from doing any part of his job.

Exactly.

It was a minor thing. It’s not like he was hiding in the corner to watch people’s reactions, which he should have been watching game film.

Oh, I agree.

It doesn’t make any sense to ask why he didn’t pick it up right away. That was kind of the point, that he wanted to see if anyone else would.

I think that people are just having a hard time transitioning from that time where

the chiefs were just this organization that spread the wealth, flaunted power & cash, and disregarded minutia of running an office (like all the excess in color prints Pioli did away with when he arrived).

throw out most of the petty office bullshit (that’s honestly what 95% of this article is), and what did Babb actually write about? A rumor. way to go man. some gritty investigating there. you showed up to an office reunion party where everyone got drunk and told you how pissed they were at the guy that just fired them. awesome.

Damn Chris do you have employees that hate you?

Truly asking cause I do Imagine Bossman does and what ever Tarkus does has always been pro Manager

Awesome

I bet Pioli would look good in a Mickey Mouse Hat

Except that's not the case

Some of the people let go were the scouts that found J. Charles, DJ, Tamba, Flowers, Carr, Bowe…..Pioli never read their reports and fired them after his disastrous first draft.

Defending the Chiefs is easy. Defending Hunt/Pioli should be quite difficult now that facts are coming out. It may be salvageable, but this is a dysfunctional organization. Pioli has never done this before and he may never be asked to do it again if he doesn’t win ASAP.

Heh, facts. This article is chock full of them

Oh wait…

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Fact:

Kent Babb did have some drinks at the office reunion party where he did most of this “investigating”

(ok not fact. but fun speculation :P )

Fact

He put it in a newspaper of record and is liable for Libel if it is untrue. Clark Hunt commented within said article so the Owner of said franchise was aware of the gist of the article and did not stomp all over it.

Read between the lines guys

What Delaney said

Facts aren’t unproven allegations of fired employees. If you take those for facts, why aren’t Pioli & Co’s denial facts as well? The answer is ease: they’re both unproven.

Also, this isn’t really a dysfunctional organization. Pioli took this team from 2-14 and had a 10 win season in his second year. His third year, where many people were calling for 7 to 9 wins before the injuries, was a 7 win season with several crucial injuries. I think that’s pretty functional compared to four years ago and many people’s expectations.

"Facts" for AP are what you twist them to be

And anything against your opinion is “lies, deceit, and all-around wrong”

Welcome to the Jungle

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

And then he fired his coach...

Pioli took this team from 2-14 and had a 10 win season in his second year. His third year, where many people were calling for 7 to 9 wins before the injuries, was a 7 win season with several crucial injuries.

maybe management was calling for more

than 7-9 wins!

don't forget bitter journalist.

I'd rather have the Packer way

All the hoopla over the Patriot way, the Pats history of cheating via spygate, the
Chiefs treating employees like crap, the poor drafting, the secrecy and conspiracy and the fact the Patriot way works for two people…Bill and Tom…I say to hell with the Patriot way.

Give me the Packer way. This franchise is set up for success for years to come, they have a dynamite personnel office, great drafts, a family environment and are absolutely beloved by their fans. In reading about them i do not get a sense of the GESTAPO, I get the sense of family and success.

Give me the Green Bay way….a winning approach I can be proud to support.

Ray

Private vs publicly owned

You seek the one required open book vs. EVERY other closed book team in the league. Maybe you are a fan of the wrong game.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

maybe you're a fan of the wrong GM

I'll judge off of what matters here: championships

The team is heading the right direction. He is doing his job well so far. Everyone should be a fan, except of course those he released to get where we are now.

You know who else was a disgruntled employee making sensational claims? Jarrad Page. He must have been right!

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

oh yeah ... people don't matter, sportsmanship in sports doesn't matter anymore either ...

I get it

There are people being harmed here???

The team is cheating???

That matters, for sure, but I guess I missed the harm and cheating being done by the devils in charge

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

ask the loyal former employees who lost their jobs

There are people being harmed here???

Why are they loyal all of sudden?

Are they loyal because they get fired and then start shouting off about their former employer?

I suggest all of my employees operating under this mentality

“Do your job well, and you won’t have to worry about someone else taking it”

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Unless of course you are in a union

Them you don’t have to do anything to keep your job (but that is a discussion for elsewhere)

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

riiiiiiiiiight

firemen and cops and teachers and anyone else in any union are obviously lazy and therefore don’t have to do anything …

So why bring it up here then?

but that is a discussion for elsewhere

Yes,hard working people are never fired on some boss’ whim and all union people lazy. The Irish are all drunks as are all American Indians. Blacks prefer food stamps to paychecks and all Muslims are terrorists. Did I forget anyone?

Mused the point. Read my comment above the union comment, put them together, then get back to me

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

~~mused~~ missed the point

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

NO, I got the point and it simply isn't true.

Do your job well, and you won’t have to worry about someone else taking it". Unless of course you are in a union.

Sorry, together or separately, both comments are false.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 reply

Hmm, I thought you would have at least tried to explain your position on why that's adamantly false

Your failure to do so tells me you don’t have any claim to the contrary, you just are trying to disagree with me.

Meh, expected.

he already told you

your blanket statement of “no accountability for anyone in a union” is false … period

Meh, expected? Nice.

You are really going to argue that good, hard working people never get fired? There are lots of unemployed people who would disagree. The snide remark about union people never getting fired is blatant stereotyping. Bad union employees get fired every day. I’m not going to waste my time digging up 100 examples that you would dismiss with “Meh, expected”.

not all union people are lazy

I’ve worked with some (some) good ones. But, the problem is that they know who the shitty ones are, just like everyone does, but the company can’t get rid of them because their “brothers” shield and protect them. And, so, those lazy ones keep getting by, getting the same raises. The rest of the crew then see this and get lazier also. In order to get something done the company has to hire even more workers to do the same work that used to get done – which was the union goals in the first place – and the cycle continues. This is why so much of american business has been destroyed through the years. Auto industry, steel industry, …

Also, I’ve never seen any union actually train any of their workers as they claim to.

Typically, bad union employees keep their jobs because

MANAGEMENT is too LAZY to do the required documentation to fire them, according to the contract (which is an agreement between BOTH parties). I have been studying blue collar training for 10 years now and can provide you with many examples of union training. Who do you think is wiring up the large buildings that hold thousands of people whose safety depends on proper electrical practices? Where do you think they get their training?

There are some pretty bad managers too

Labor can’t get rid of them either

Mexican Stand-off

It certainly won't help when trying to attract good coaches and assistants.

or players

53 × 32 is a very small club and the good players know the good teams.

apparently the Chiefs are not on the good list, regards Free agents and Good coaches

Can't help but rec this

but I’ll just add that I’d prefer my team to be modeled after nothing else but it’s founder’s character. That would suit me just fine.

trlwyr - January 15, 2012 reply

what appears to be going on is nothing close to what Lamar would have tolerated

Lamar asked for loyalty to the team, not to himself … under Lamar it was truly a “family” within the organization, top to bottom

Truly a family top to bottom? Que?

One of those was Allen Wright, the team’s equipment manager, who was with the Chiefs when Peterson took over in 1988. Back then, the Chiefs also overhauled the staff: Three years later, 62 percent of the staff had been retained, but seven of 10 department heads had been replaced. The organization was smaller then, but Wright recalled a similar reaction to the changes.

"I remember the same feelings and people saying the same things," he said. "I was a young kid working in the equipment department, and everybody was talking about how everybody was worried about getting fired. … Any time there’s change, that’s just the feeling that people have."

So it’s okay when Lamar does it but not Clark?

Touche

Again, spoken while in the presence of the PR department of a company firing lots of people.

Wait - so the facts of Lamar / Petereson's cleaning house in 1988, has what to do with PR people today?

Or are you saying he made it up that a bunch of people were fired in the organization when Peterson took over and Lamar was the owner – because a PR person was there?

It isn't so complicated, is it?

I’m going to be VERY careful about what I say to the press while my company’s PR representative is sitting there monitoring everything I say.

Wait, what?

I asked ups why it’s okay for there to be organizational house cleaning in the 80’s under Lamar and Peterson, but it’s not okay now with Clark and Pioli.

That happened. In 1988. Unless you think there’s some elaborate scheme to concoct a big staffing change that never happened? How does PR being on hand change that in any way shape or form?

I'm not arguing history.

I’m doubting the candor of the everything is hunky-dory comment from Mr. Wright.

Chiefs arranged phone interviews with eight current employees. Farmer and Davis were among those, and their interviews were the only two conducted without a Chiefs PR staffer present. Each of the employees spoke favorably about the working environment and the team’s direction…
One of those was Allen Wright, the team’s equipment manager

Okay so you're topic switching.

Ups says Lamar / Peterson times were a big family. I question that it was all so rosy and sunshine-y and family like by pointing out the same house cleaning happened with them in 1988.

I have no problems with house cleaning if done fairly.

I’m more concerned with the productivity of people working in an oppressive environment. Apologies if this is more topic switchiing.

All good. I was honestly confused as to what any of that had to do with asking ups why the current administration doing the same thing the previous one did was being held to a different standard.

Doesn’t often take a lot to confuse me. Things like speaking English. Or shoelaces.

what electric said

and what ept_stl said below (way below)

Neither of those conveys to me why it was a big happy family when Lamar and Carl did it in 1988

Help me understand these advanced concepts. I’m a layperson.

well, for starters I misread the part about it being 1988 or whatever ... is

and yeah, I know there’s always turnover with new regime … nonetheless, what’s happened as described in the article is beyond ludicrous

have you read the Forbes article on the Taits of Ineffective Leaders? seems Pioli shows most of those not-very-good qualities

So....

"We needed a culture that pursued excellence," he said. "One that valued honesty and integrity, one where the employees would be held accountable."

This is a quote from Clark Hunt.

Is there anyone that believes the Chiefs, bottom of the league in payroll for the last three years, is pursuing excellence from ownership?

Has the crappy drafting and lack of free agency movement made the Chiefs better?

Sounds like Hunt and Pioli are expecting excellence from everyone but themselves.

The only productive players on this team were here before Pioli got here and despite the fact everyone hated Carl Peterson (who always spent near the cap), his suddenly unproductive employees always had the stadium sold out.

How many super bowl titles did all of those Carl Petersen employees win in how many years?

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

The same number Pioli has won as a GM

0

Luckily for us, in 3 seasons, Pioli's less expensive crew has accomplished exactly the same results that Petersen's bloated and overpaid crew did in 20 years

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

And exactly why do we as fans give a crap about how much money is being spent?

Its not like its your money.

The Chiefs will charge the same as every other NFL team does.

as a season ticket holder

I care, just as I care how a company I have stock in manages their money.

Thats because how much money you get from your stocks is based on how they run the company

You aren’t getting a cut from the Chiefs. It’s like if I cared about the expenses of the company that makes the bread I eat.

I don’t give a crap what their expenses are. All I care about is that I get what I pay for.

just like how good the Chiefs are

is (and this is just my opinion) based on how they manage the team. Keeping money to pay key players or acquire the perfect free agent is fine by me.

I do agree with the last sentiment, I want the Chiefs to win. I just don’t think that spending up to cap for the sake of doing so is how to do that. I see other teams do that and don’t see the product on the field.

Fans want the team to spend money on free agents to better the play on the field

But are trying to argue against saving money by not overspending on things like coffee? Unbelievable

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

But you're buying a product...

Like hell it's not your money.

Where do you think the franchise gets it’s money? From the fans. Directly.

So, yeah, we care about how much, and more importantly, how the money is spent.

are you kidding?

the majority comes from TV Networks and advertising revenue … that in turn comes from consumers, many of whom could care less about football

Too narrow a view, Ups.

If it weren’t for football fans, then why would they televise the games? If there wasn’t a large viewership of football games, then why would retailers advertise during those games? Neither would happen, so Chiefs fans are as directly responsible for TV revenues during football games as they are ticket and concession revenues.

true on that, but ...

that’s not getting money directly from the fans … strictly speaking

True. He opened up the criticism with the "Directly" qualifier.

And yet, if the stands are empty, your team's in trouble.

hmills110 - January 15, 2012 reply

you had to come way down here just to pick on me, didn't ya

hiya Prof :-)

The point is

Its the GMs job to put a winning product on the field. Pioli has failed that so far.

Its the job of the people in the office to sell tickets and fill the seats. That was being done before, but now those people are being fired.

Here’s another quote from the article:

Melton said she frequently took the brunt of Pioli’s outbursts on such matters as the temperature in his office, the radio signal in the weight room, and how much the organization spent annually on coffee.

\

REALLY? The guy that is responsible for the draft and who our QB is and building our O-line and he’s worried about how much coffee is????

Maybe that’s why our team sucks.

I think honestly

That we will be able to get a winning product soon. 7-9 is fine considering the crap that happened this season. However, I will fault Pioli if Cassel is still starting and Palko is still on an NFL roster next season

NJChieffan16 - January 15, 2012 reply

When the product he inherited was the REASON why tickets weren't being sold

Cutting costs and excessively managing how the team spends on insignificant crap like unnecessary color printing, high end coffee, and air conditioning is expected. If you don’t believe that, business school awaits

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

disagree

all the good players we have today were here when Pioli got here….who has he brought in besides Berry and maybe Houston…compared to Charles, Tamba, Flowers, Carr, Bowe, Albert? Our team is better because pre-Scottie players are our strength….

And how many wins did those players get us in the last few years of Carl's reign???

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Of course you ignore who Pioli brought in.

What about Berry, Houston, Bailey, Jackson, Asamoah, Breaston

Im sure we wouldnt get rid of those players for example

NJChieffan16 - January 15, 2012 reply

umm

and are you conveniently forgetting that those players are now veterans compared to 1, 2, or 3 year players?

That is not the job of the manager of football operations

Some other flunky can worry about that stuff.

The GMs job is to build a better football team.

Apparently you didn't read the article, or you just ignore the parts that go against your beliefs

If Pioli is cutting costs by being very meticulous on what the team spends money on, why would he pay someone to do something he is capable of himself? Laziness was the company shtick before Pioli. If he wants to change that, how would it look if he had employees to do everything for him?

“Football Operations” goes way beyond just the game, its managing the team as a whole, which are a lot of unknown office jobs and administrations. Pioli should be commended for not letting that fall to the wayside

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Dear Scott: thank you SO much for picking up that candy wrapper after keeping an eye on it for a week!

what, like he couldn’t have picked it up and tossed it away when he first saw it? he had to make that a focus of an internal inquisition?!?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Proof is in the pudding

You want to know why you were fired, look no further than the candy wrapper. If your mentality is “someone else will do it”, then you are right. Someone else now has your job and will do it.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Exactly!!!!

You mean like the janitorial staff?

they were fired ... cost cutting move, you know

Really?

Don’t you think that is the definition of “entitled”? Waiting for a janitor to pick up something that you could. Glad I don’t work with you…

no, accountability

you guys are going on about “accountability” … ok fine, whose job was it to clean stairwells? janitorial one would assume … so instead of calling maintenance and saying “hey, let’s be sure to keep these stairwells clean” he makes a federal case out of a candy wrapper … micromanagement couple with paranoia

not the way to run a business

See Delaney's Comment Below

If this was a test for employee commitment, one would assume that the janitorial staff were instructed to leave the paper there…

Oh, & I disagree

It is exactly the way to run a business when you’re trying to change the culture.

a TEST?

omg … are you serious?

Proof positive of a dictatorial nut case.

If this was a test for employee commitment, one would assume that the janitorial staff were instructed to leave the paper there…

Yep, that's me

Gives you another target for you insults besides the team’s GM

Not sure how you took that personally...

The idea is, if the Chiefs GM is hatching elaborate candy wrappers schemes he is off his rocker.

I support this wild and outrageous statement

Heh "leave that there and see if anyone picks it up"

Is elaborate?

I may be in the wrong line of work.

Ordering the janitorial staff to not touch it?

That's elaborate?

Again. Since it was implied in my comment above but you didn’t catch it, I’ll articulate it more clearly so the communication flub won’t be on my end.

“Hey there janitorial staff, leave that wrapper alone. I want to see if anyone will pick it up.”

Now back to the point – that’s elaborate?

If it is, I’m in the wrong line of work. Because I could be a mastermind of subterfuge if it is.

I thought you were already high up in the CIA

Damn right, ups!

I’m the clandestine commander!

not anymore

you just blew your cover all to hell

There is no communication flub.

I will retract “elaborate” if it is a sticking point for you. Still, if that is Pioli’s idea of leadership strategy, I fear for the organization.

I doubt if it was as big of a deal to Pioli

as it obviously is to you.

I just thought it was funny

You making it sound like, “Hey, don’t pick up that wrapper. I want to see if any of our people will.” equates to some kind of intricate plot of an evil mastermind.

well, whatever you call it, it's certonly not indicative of good leadership skills or good management style

if it bothered him so much, he could have simply picked it up and called maintenance/janitorial services

or if he wanted to “make a point” he could have picked it up immediately and then mentioned it in a meeting later on “hey guys, let’s pick up after ourselves, ok?”

instead it seemingly becomes some huge issue, as if a candy wrapper in a stairwell is more important than actually, you know … running a football team

Funny you mention that in regards to leadership.

I work at a site that trains soldiers. Among many other uses, my facility holds a lot of the training for the Army National Guard’s OCS (Officer Candidate School).

That’s exactly the same kind of thing they do. In training these people to be leaders.

The point isn’t at all about the wrapper. It’s about the mentality of the people around it.

For instance – one of the teaching tools used by the Captain who runs the part of training that goes on at my facility is that he issues each cadet a regular brick to keep track of. It’s painted gold. It’s their responsibility. Each cadet must bring their gold brick to each class, but outside of that – it doesn’t have to be on their person.

Unless they screw up and forget to bring their brick to a class. Had a cadet two months ago forget his. So he had to paint the brick bright pink and carry it with him everywhere. (Literally everywhere. Bathroom. Chow hall. Parking lot. During marches. You name it).

Every week he keep up with his brick, he was allowed to pain 1/4 of it gold, until after 4 weeks there was no more pink and he got to resume normal usage with the other cadets.

The whole exercise has nothing at all to do with a brick. It’s about accountability and attention to detail for these future leaders.

It’s about instilling a mentality.

That's exactly the point, in my opinion.

The purpose in not picking it up is to identify if that level of slovenliness has become acceptable. It can identify that, as an organization, the people have learned to live with lowered expectations or restrictive job descriptions.

The problem I have is that it directly contrasts, in my opinion, the attitude of then creating hard silos between departments within the organization. The secrecy and division within the organization that has been created thus alleviates the business side of the organization from responsibility for the results on the field, and vice versa. The purpose in making a point about the candy wrapper has to be indicating that all members of the organization should have the same level of accountability for the success of the organization. Those two don’t jive.

Sounds like a fair assessment.

I’m of a similar mind that it’s a perfectly valid philosophical approach to bring about change.

But the execution probably hasn’t been been as well done as it should be.

one last candy wrapper note ...

the article doesn’t specify, but it’s entirely possible that said stairwell is one that is largely unused … and/or perhaps the candy wrapper was in a hard-to-see spot behind or under the stairs

again, it’s letting something like that turn into a major issue that I see a problem with Pioli and his “leadership” and management style

Your question on the details .....

can also be applied to how he used it. He may have had several reasons to believe the company had come to lower its standards and allow a certain amount of sloppiness in the daily operations. It is very likely that this candy wrapper was used solely as an example of the standards that needed to be raised. Whether or not he successfully communicated that, well …..

Who said it was a major issue?

Scott Pioli, apparently

or maybe WarPaint or Delaney who suggested it was a “test” of some kind

Tark, stop tossing out strawmen and use some critical thinking skills … re-read what I just wrote with a less antagonistic viewpoint and try to understand the deeper meaning

The article did.

The article stated that it was used in an executive meeting as an example. That’s elevating it to a pretty high level.

executive meeting ... and Pioli took it there

a candy wrapper to an executive meeting … yup, sounds like Pioli thought it was a major issue

I imagine he used it as a metaphor.

The wrapper itself wasn’t a big deal.

nice job of backtracking, Tark ... well done! :-)

It becomes a bigger deal as a symbol

Here's a candy wrapper note for you

The janitorial staff clearly sucks.

In a Soldier

Secretaries are not Soldiers, Accountants are not Soldiers

Though as Soldiers they can be both

Missed the point.

It’s not about soldiers.

It’s about leadership styles.

It’s a tool (in this case, a candy wrapper) being used to illustrate a certain principle that those in charge wish to highlight.

Has nothing to do with soldiers, secretaries, or soldier-secretaries.

Haley's signs were much better

Yet that's how it appears...

Whether or not the janitors were involved.

What more proof do you require that change was badly needed?

The team was terrible, undisciplined, and lazy. Pioli doesn’t have to be a “dictatorial nut case” once he gets rid of the terrible, undisciplined and lazy employees and brings in new employees that aren’t any of that. Then he can focus on football

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

he's supposed to focus on football to begin with ...

that’s what he was hired to do … football, you know? it’s kind of the point, remember?

and how do you know that all those people WERE in fact “terrible, undisciplined and lazy employees” … maybe they weren’t actually that at all

You have been around long enough to know that the team is more than just playing the game

Managing the front office is just as important as managing the team. I’m assuming you know enough about football to recognize how terrible, undisciplined, and lazy the team on the field was pre-Pioli. You don’t think it was also affecting the front office? All these “innocent, hard-working” office employees couldn’t possibly succumb to the work environment bred by their former bosses, could they? You have to start from the top down if you want to institute widespread change.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

What is his exact title, Ups?

I thought Pioli had an additional title from simply GM. Doesn’t he also hold an executive operations title of some kind? If so, then his job may very well involve him in more than just the football.

not at all sure, to be honest

and he may well be involved with more than just the football side … nonetheless, as I’ve expressed elsewhere, if his style of management is to breed paranoia and distrust, if his leadership style is such that it brings on that uncertainty in just doing a simple job, if he makes that big of a deal out of a candy wrapper … he’s not a good leader

I agree with you on the idea that ....

breeding paranoia and distrust within an organization is poor leadership. We have a disagreement on the usage of the candy wrapper, but that’s probably because neither of us have the whole story. Instead, we are left to interject our own biases into that argument, so we probably won’t come to a good resolution.

I think Haley was dysfunctional without any help, but if that type of dysfunction continues to be seen throughout the organization the Chiefs aren’t going to become the elite organization we want them to be. I think it’s important to recognize that this is direction from Clark Hunt, not just Pioli.

Oh c'mon ups

Its like I’m back in HS all over again.

“nah don’t pick up your trash and throw it away”

Then the lunchroom is a pig sty and janitors are pulled from regular duty to pick up a ton of trash because nobody respects there school.

If you can’t respect your workspace enough to keep it clean then how can you expect someone to respect your work?

Is your workspace a stairwell?

An entire building could be construed as a workspace

Especially if people are using it every day

Do you clean the toilets too?

I do at my house

I tell my wife I clean the toilets.

But sometimes I don’t.

That sounds like it's probably true.

Unless it isn’t.

Signed,

TRSThorman

ohhh NOW we see where your loyalty is

Hey, a guy has to bring in the beer gloves

One way or another.

you only get one

This attitude results in a poor working environment.

I actually do sop up the water people splash on the sink in the bathroom, and I often clean up the paper towels that people toss on the floor rather than throw in the garbage can. I don’t like working in an environment that is trashed up because of laziness. My efforts don’t change the actions of those that make the mess, but I’d like to think that our customers feel more comfortable with us when they use our restrooms, office area, or kitchen area because I take a little extra time to clean it up after I use it.

This is far from my job function, though. I just don’t feel that the efforts are beneath me, nor do I have the misguided belief that I have some fixed job description. At the end of the day, all of my efforts are to help my company make money, whether that means through a reduction of wasted efforts and resources or additional revenue sources being found. That, to me, is what it means to have a winning attitude.

you mean THEIR school?

because nobody respects there school

yeah, snarky cheapshot on the spelling, I know … to make a point, though: did you not respect school enough to learn the difference between “there” and “their” and “they’re” … ?

so yeah, that was definitely nit-picky of me, making a huge case of one misspelled word … so yeah, I expect to get duly slammed

after all, I guess you could say I’m making a big deal of nothing, right?

candy wrapper, anyone? :-)

Well

If we’re being snarky, we’d complain about your lack of capital letters & proper punctuation, but hey we’re all friends here.

Actually I had zero respect for my school

Consequence of the California public school system, probably why I barely graduated. ;-)

Actually, I don't think you're making a big thing of nothing.

Language is the primary form of communication between humans. As such, language and grammar are of utmost importance in being understood. Misspellings and grammatical mistakes result in misunderstandings that can have serious consequences in many cases.

It also does show a lack of respect to one’s school and the people who provided that school to not put equal effort into learning while you are there. So, if a teacher is allowed to get by with writing “there” when he/she really means “their,” even if it’s simply a typo, then it can have lasting effects on his/her students’ educations.

I think trashing the place in which you work does indicate a certain subconscious attitude about the place. A poor attitude causes one not to put in maximum effort, and that failure will create poor results. I don’t have a problem with making a point out of small things, as one doesn’t change the big picture with a grand gesture. The overall changes occur as a result of a significant number of small changes.

I absolutely agree ...

and poor attitude in school results in “tuning out” and ending up with lack of education, be it knowledge or skills for later in life

interesting that in this particular instance, it seems WarPaint is “blaming the institution” for his barely graduating, while defending the institution in the case of the Chiefs front office … quite the conundrum

Exactly my point

Some employee throws garbage on the floor. That is what we pay the janitorial staff to do, right? Clean up after a mess we make so we don’t have to? Laziness, at its worst. The janitors have other jobs to do, but lets pull them away from that to come pick up a candy wrapper someone was to lazy to throw in the trash and everyone else was too lazy to bend down to pick it up.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Amen Brother

including, apparently, Pioli himself ... for a week

and everyone else was too lazy to bend down to pick it up

and that’s where his attention should be? his focus should be on a fucking CANDY WRAPPER?!?

talk about misplaced priorities …

His priorities are ridding the team of laziness and lack of accountability

Step one was firing Herm. Step two was showing the office workers this candy wrapper and why they are at fault for this laziness (not that he needed anymore proof, as the 10 wins in 3 seasons was enough). But hey, Pioli could have just ignored the problem and swept it under the rug, like the last regime.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

then why didn't he hold himself accountable when he failed to pick up a candy wrapper the first six days?

His priorities are ridding the team of laziness and lack of accountability

over-controlling, egotistical, authoritarian, paranoid … wow, Jason was right!

I know, that's the worst part about it.

wow, Jason was right!

you have no idea how wide the grin on my face is right now

and I can’t wait for this to national … ohhhhh this is gonna be SO much fun!

sad part is they won’t be able to hire anyone worth a fake football degree after this hits the fan

You are happy that you think Whitlock was right about this?

You are happy that you were right, despite all your pleas about the “innocent worker caught up in this”? Wow, ups, losing respect for you pretty quickly here.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Funny where your allegiance lies.

You’re giddy about something that might embarrass the Chiefs, because your hatred of Pioli is apparently higher on the totem poll.

Never mind that there is very little substance to this story, so don’t expect to see it all over ESPN and the NFL Network anytime soon.

Rec

Exactly.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

my allegiance?

Tark, stop with the accusations … I’m a fan of the Chiefs, the team itself, not an overbearing GM who puts more priority on a goddamn candy wrapper than the football team he’s supposed to be rebuilding

what about you, Tark? are you fan of the Chiefs or a yes-man loyal to the Kansas City Piolis?

seriously, this is what you’re say? come on, you’re better than that …

You already showed your cards, ups.

You enjoy the fact the team could be embarrassed to prove your dislike for Pioli was justified. There really is no coming back from that

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Exactly.

I'm a fan of the Chiefs.

So I don’t get all giddy like a little schoolgirl every time something negative comes out in the media, that might cast a negative light on their GM.

That doesn’t mean I blindly support that GM. I just don’t root against him.

Especially when rooting against him would damage the team ultimately

When you would rather your car crash than be driven by someone you don’t like, its time for a reevaluation of self

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Rec'd for the good metaphor.

Right. This is sad if true.

What independent creative minds, coaches and assistants, are going to come work here?

If you being right about something this bad makes you happy

I question your motives here. And I thought we were free of aiken’s “I’m right, you’re wrong, I win” mentality.

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Wow.

Oh joy. Your unbridled support for Whitlock is personally and unsubstantial justified

The world is right again for you, ups

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

you're absurd

how much attention do you think it really took Pioli to see this candy wrapper every day and then use it as an example. Probably in total less than 5 minutes. Your opinion on running a company holds NO weight with me. Aren’t you an “occupy wall street” type of dude that just hates business because it even exists in the first place? Maybe the Chiefs would be better if they were a government owned and operated “enterprise”.

It was probably a Payday wrapper

left by either Carr or Bowe.

The fact that this isn't green yet is a travesty.

NEWS FLASH!

Successful, prosperous corporations quit treating their employees like faceless numbers to be ordered around in the 1980’s. Check out Google, General Electric, and the Green Bay Packers.

I'm sure each of those organizations expect productivity and accountability

And know how to get it.

So that's how Palko made it on the field!!!

Pioli was watching the wrapper in the stairwell for too long and lost focus of the players on the roster who were comparable to the wrapper in that they were capable of nothing more than just being there.

Or maybe Palko often stayed late to clean the stairwells.

So again

Scott pick up the trash, if it consumed you for a week. I have things about my job I would change if I had the power, but I can pick up trash too

I don't understand why this concept is so difficult.

The wrapper loses its value as a teaching tool if he picks it up. He wanted to see how long it took for somebody to notice it. Expecting everyone to pull the sled in the same direction has value as a leader. Mr. Pioli is the manager, and it is his job to get everyone to pull the sled in the same direction. He isn’t some peon on the bottom of the pyramid.

The point was not about the wrapper, it was about the idea that everybody is responsible for the end result, not just their small definition of job function. If you are excelling at your job but the company is failing, then you’re still going to be out of a job. If you are doing things that make sure those around you are capable of excelling at their jobs, then the company is more likely to succeed, even if that means you aren’t capable of being the best at your job function because of your other activities.

you're gonna hate the Draft Talk thread that I just posted :-)

you’ll know what I mean if you take a peek at it

Hey you are breaking the AP rules

Arrowhead Pride Rules
~~1. No self promotion~~

rules? we got RULES?

Surely there was a better teaching tool.

If you are doing things that make sure those around you are capable of excelling at their jobs, then the company is more likely to succeed, even if that means you aren’t capable of being the best at your job function because of your other activities.

I can’t help but visualize our scouting department scouring the corridors looking for trash. ;0)

Not necessarily.

I stated earlier that I actually do what I can to clean up our kitchen and bathrooms at my work because I believe the way our office presents to customers and potential customers has an impact on their feelings towards our attitudes and attention to detail. I work for a component supplier, and I believe that a poor workplace presentation can make a potential customer question the quality of our products.

You may not agree with me, but how do you feel about a restaurant that doesn’t clean the bathrooms? Don’t you question what their kitchen must look like? How is that any different?

I agree in part ... but what you're really saying is that Pioli should have simply picked up the damn wrapper, thrown it away and moved on with life

the fact that he DIDN’T do that is where the issue lies

I'm not a manager, though, Ups.

I agree with you, in principle. I believe in leading by example, anyway. However, if I’m the office manager, then I could very well see using such a situation as a teaching moment in order to convince my staff that all of our efforts should be about the end result. I’m not much for specialization, anyway. I believe it’s the behavior of ants and bees, where I associate humans more with wolves our primates. The issue that we both agreed with below regarding the mistakes that Best Buy is making are the reasons that I would use this as a teaching example. The candy wrapper is indicative of an attitude that the employees had lost sight of the mission of their organization. Losing sight of that often leads to infighting and lack of effort toward the goal.

true, but pettiness and vindictiveness are not good traits in organizational leaders

… unless the organization is Mafia, of course

when it comes down to candy wrappers and coffee, things are going too far … it WOULD have been a great teaching thing as a fast email reminder, perhaps … but to stew about it for a week and bring it up in a meeting of his top people … no, that has “petty and overly controlling” written all over it

treat people the way you want to be treated and they’ll pay you back a thousand fold in effort and goodwill

I don't know that we are getting anywhere here, Ups.

I think you are painting it with some of your own biases based on other things you believe about the organization and some of the other statements made in the article. Mostly I am playing devil’s advocate because I believe that it is absolutely possible to present the candy wrapper as a teaching example to improve the organization.

There is no information about the organization gained by simply picking it up when he first noticed it. He was gathering information about how his company worked. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he “stewed about it.” It simply means that watching to see when/if the problem cleared itself up was recon work. It would be extremely petty to simply explode about it because he noticed it.

He could have used other examples that were more esoteric, but I believe that metaphors are best kept simple. It really all depends on how he presented it in the meeting, at which we can only guess given that the article doesn’t provide that.

to even view a single candy wrapper in some stairwell as a "problem that needs to be watched" is absurd

gathering information about it? it’s a piece of trash! are you kidding me? gathering information??? what, to see if it’s picked my maintenance? fine … that still doesn’t make it a “teaching tool” at a staff meeting

what it does make it is a symbol of petty and narrow-minded thinking … did he call maintenance office and find out how often that stairwell was scheduled for cleanup? a teaching tool? the only example he made was of himself …

seriously, think about this for a minute … this is the same kind of inane micromanagement that Al Davis engaged in … there is simply no justification for this whatsoever

As I said, we're not getting anywhere.

You’re clearly getting more agitated about it as the night goes on. I don’t agree with you that it is necessarily inane. Now, if he fixates on every situation such as this one continually, then he has lost focus of his job. However, attention to detail and defining accountability within an organization is important. Whatever vehicle one chooses to indicate that concern doesn’t really bother me.

I don’t think expecting everybody to do their job is inane, narrow-minded, or petty. Indicating to his staff the level of excellence he demands isn’t either. Micromanaging is not defining expectations and standards for even the most minute detail of the organization. Micromanaging is failing to delegate the duties of carrying out those responsibilities to your management staff. Using the candy wrapper to indicate the standard that he wants to accept is not micromanaging.

you catch on slowly, but you do learn :-)

if he fixates on every situation such as this one continually, then he has lost focus of his job

The article doesn't indicate that he has done that, though, Ups.

It simply provides a single instance that he used as an example to set the standards that he wants upheld. Consequently, this article doesn’t provide evidence that these types of concerns occupy a significant portion of his time.

no, the implication by a lot of people earlier that he did use it as an example is the point I'm making ...

that to do so, and in fact, for him to bring it up in ANY meeting, is ludicrous to begin with

for it to take ANY of his time shows a side of the man that’s out of touch with reality and with that, my friend, I need to crash n burn here

be well!

We'll just have to disagree.

It’s been fun. Talk to you later.

to etp

I don’t have any idea what the hell a wrapper on the ground has to do with anything.

Pick it up and throw it away.

anyone can do it and everyone should do it including Barack Obama

so Pioli certainly can instead of making a big stink about it.

I think it petty, and a lot of those adv Mngt Courses are obviously stupid shit too based on what management does day to day

It has to do with a general level of standard that one might wish to set for the organization.

It can be used to indicate that the standard applies to even a job that others might see as menial, such as janitorial services. It goes back to the idea that while I may only be a ditch digger, I should always strive to be the best ditch digger.

If everyone “should” do it, as you claim, then how do you set that standard as a manager if you don’t point out that no one “did” do it? One has to define the standard before he/she can hold others to it. That’s what I see from this instance provided in this article. If one is taking over a mediocre organization in order to elevate it to elite, then standards have to be set and examples need to be made to indicate the difference between what it means to be elite versus mediocre.

Exactly MY point all along

Pioli should have demonstrated that HE picked it up and that is not the way it should be.

Saying you all should have picked this up

is hindsight and is less of a point than I PICKED this up and you all should have known to too

Pioli's is the GM of the Chiefs

The Chiefs are a business, not just a football team. He is in charge of managing everything (hence the term “General” Manager), not just the on-field product.

True

and it’s all about how you manage the team generally, not more specifically in the trivial areas that don’t really have an overall effect on the win percentage of the team…you know thta part that really generates the most business

I've been to business school.

The authoritarian, top-down, my way or the highway technique is outmoded and ineffective for getting the most out of employees.

If you don’t believe that, business school awaits

Considering we are talking about employees who were under the lax, lazy, "whatever you want to do" technique

I think its pretty clear that way wasn’t working for the team. Herm Edwards-style goes a long way to demanding change

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Business school. Ha ha.

I’ve been to business school. I’ve been to engineering school.

I’ve worked for corporations (still do) and small companies. Got news for you: many large corporations micro-manage, bully, and initimidate the hell out of their employees to this day, no matter what your schoolbook tells you.

There is a reason some of us choose to live in small towns and work for small companies, and do part-time jobs to make ends meet.

You choose to work for a large corporation in hopes of a bigger paycheck, you take the bad with the good. It’s called “right to work” and it goes both ways.

Love the dismissive Ha Ha but I've worked for Allied Signal, Motorola, and Honeywell

Yeah, it’s hard to walk the talk, but lots of companies do. When Larry Bossidy came over from GE as Jack Welch’s second in command he got rid of the time clocks, break whistles, and pay phones. People were treated like adults and we could open any door in any department to get the info we needed. Sorry if that hasn’t been your experience. In my experience, there are more tyrant bosses in little companies where they can get away with crap.

Or plain break the law

on Equal Opportunity Hiring, Sexual Descrimination, and downright Theivery.

Have you ever considered this...

the reason for Pioli’s “alleged” obsessive on how much was spend on coffee is to stop Cassel’s jittery whenever he see pressure and Pioli wants to put a stop to that?

I mean, I already had three cups of coffee this morning and I m all jittery writing this post!

angrydeafman - January 15, 2012 reply

Could explain the happy feet.

Maybe Cassel’s gatorade bottle was actually filled with $25/lb Kona.

Too bad cap doesn't matter

Its all about real cash spent, and we’re middle of the pack when you factor that.

AMEN

well Said ChiefDJ….all are accountable except Clarkie and Scottie

No longer completely sold on Pioli BUT...

has anyone ever thought that the GHOST OF KING CARL may have contributed to a lot of this?

Question to AP readers? Knowing that a building was full of NON FOOTBALL people still beholden to Carl….WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?

since63 - January 15, 2012 reply

Ignored the candy wrapper? Opened the blinds and let employees feel as though they are a part of the team?

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?

gasp heretic ... you WILL be replaced!

we can find bloggers who will agree with us … bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

All who disobey will be burned on a stake

NJChieffan16 - January 15, 2012 reply

Article is rather disturbing

i’d hate to work for the chiefs, and i used to think workign for the chiefs would be a dream job.

Private sector "Dream" jobs are a thing of the past.

since63 - January 15, 2012 reply

Public sector "Dream" jobs destroying country.

Wow. Football destroying the country. And I always thought it was greed

Surprise! I actually did learn something new from this dribble

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Another myth. Public sector employees get paid less for their skill set than in the private sector.

Look it up.

What does the KC Chiefs organization have to do

with public sector jobs? It’s a private entity.

How is the stuff improving the play on the field?

How is gum wrappers in the stair well pioli’s concern? Wtf is he focusing on, this lady is right.

"He was so focused on what seemed like unimportant details for the general manager of a football team," she said. "We all had to step to the beat of his drum, but we all kept questioning: ‘How is this building a better football team?’ "

maybe we should all read the book: Candy Wrapper Room

gotta cut down on coffee expenses so we can afford to re-sign Bowe and Carr

the candy wrapper

is a metaphor for the culture at Arrowhead. “Somebody else will take care of that”.

Either that...or it was actually a candy wrapper.

crisis mode!

because we know what our priorities are at One Arrowhead Pride

Booo F-ning Hoo....If you don't like the job, then quit.

not every employee in the article was complaining….sounds like a complacent franchise that hasn’t won diddly squat in forty years is changing thing up! I’m all for it!! You don’t get trophies for last place

NCChief63 - January 15, 2012 reply

+1

There are five people lining up to take the job you hate.

Yep, Of course they will hate it too. Does that make it ok to mistreat people?

Clark is just a puppet on piolis string

Bottom line is Clark Hunt doesnt know anything on how to run this orginization so thats why he trust pioli so much.Pioli isnt as smart as he thinks he is after all.we will have to sit back and see what improvements they make to this team.,like getting a good back up QBto push Cassel into getting better.spend some money on free agents to improve make a trade or two.just how bad does this team want to be a contender?

chiefsfool - January 15, 2012 reply

Clark is the puppet?

Clark can fire Pioli anytime he wants.

Nice screen name.

wow

can’t believe how many of you are buying into a media spun story. do you guys believe everything you read? ill wait to hear the lawsuit and courts decision before believing a “reporter” who can’t find anything better to write about.

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

you can't see how this relates to the football side?

lack of depth, lack of direction for the team?

not a purely speculative drama inducing article no.

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

purely speculative?

oh, so the people Babb talked to and were forthcoming with information … is speculative? even the few things admitted by Donovan and/or others … is speculative?

what, Babb just made this entire thing up so he’d have something to meet today’s deadline? come on, man!

so you trust everything everyone says especially from former fired employees? good luck with that. ill wait to hear the court case and not jump to judgement.

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

Denial is a powerful thing.

The Chiefs are dysfunctional. They can fix it if they have the courage to look in the mirror.

not denial I refuse to believe an unproven statement.

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

or we can hang them now like the Salem witch trails since someone screamed witch…

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

This sums its up for me...

One of those was Allen Wright, the team’s equipment manager, who was with the Chiefs when Peterson took over in 1988. Back then, the Chiefs also overhauled the staff: Three years later, 62 percent of the staff had been retained, but seven of 10 department heads had been replaced. The organization was smaller then, but Wright recalled a similar reaction to the changes. "I remember the same feelings and people saying the same things," he said. "I was a young kid working in the equipment department, and everybody was talking about how everybody was worried about getting fired. … Any time there’s change, that’s just the feeling that people have."

The rest is sour grapes IMHO…

So then why was a PR person needed in the room while he was saying that?

Accountability?

I have PR people whom have to be present when/if I interview with media…

Two purposes come to mind. One, to make sure that I don’t divulge information that is business sensitive or confidential. Two, to know what was said in the interview, so if the media person lies about what was stated, there is a 2nd person to corroborate.

Thiese things are not always so nefarious.

So you really don't think that might affect the interviewee's candor?

Nope

Probably not… But I don’t see conspiracies in every story either…

False Dichotomy, come on now

it’s not as simple as good business/conspiracy

shades of grey my man

LHO - January 15, 2012 reply

why do they have to keep the blinds closed in meetings?

are they afraid someone will find out that Pioli and Donovan wear ugly neckties? perish the thought!

and absolutely no pictures of a team practice from half mile away on a cell phone, someone might find out that Palko is a horrible excuse for a QB … and that might give other teams an unfair advantage!

Well

Let’s see, are you thinking that some teams wouldn’t spy on practice sessions? It’s happened in the past why not remove the potential for it happening in the future?

the finger wag!

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

No no

Despite all the past proven treachery in the league from other teams, we should allow full disclosure to fans and the media to spread info to the entire league. That wouldn’t give anyone a competitive advantage

RememberDelaney37 - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Don't disagree

Just trying to provide some reasoning for what others have said happened.

okay

lets be totally open and let other teams know our plans or let it leak out. kind of like war or cards you don’t tip your hand. they have open practices at certain times for a reason. up you’d make a horrible general.

kc_okerix - January 15, 2012 via Android app reply

exactly.

In this billion dollar business I imagine the Broncos and Raiders would love to know how the Chiefs do business. Especially when it comes to personnel.

And let's harass people on public roadways.

I don't get it..

From the article:

This past November, a security guard noticed a sedan stopped on Lancer Lane, a public road that runs adjacent to the Chiefs’ practice fields, as the team’s morning session was beginning. The driver took a photograph on his cell phone, and the guard ran toward him, standing there until the man deleted the picture. As the guard returned to his post, he told a Star reporter that, if the man hadn’t erased the photo, the guard would’ve confiscated the phone.

I see.

I’m not sure how big of a problem this is.

I mean there is a reason they hold closed practice.

I wouldn’t want the Bears to see how they are lining up.

I wonder if it was McHoodie in that sedan.

HA!

They know all about using cameras as an advantage.

Isn't Pioli only supposed to be just football and Donovan

on the b-side? though it doesn’t sound like it, does sound like pioli is the puppet master controlling even clark.

Pretty sure GM stands for

General Manager.

Like Bill Williamson says in his ESPN AFC West's blog

“Stories bugged phones and rampant paranoia is nothing new in the NFL. I’ve heard that stuff before in other buildings. It doesn’t mean it happened.

The truth is, Haley and Kansas City general manager Scott Pioli didn’t work well together. That’s the bottom line regardless of any juicy tales of turmoil and espionage."

kaiser1118 - January 15, 2012 reply

Interesting piece

What I took from it is what one of the former employees said. “How is thistyrant behavior & secrecy going to make our football team better?”

Bingo!

HIT34MAN - January 15, 2012 reply

There is a reason.

Successful people don’t often use time and recourses like this if it were not called for.

This really isn't a big deal

We go to the playoffs next year, how many will care about this story? Drama!

Chiefs3188 - January 15, 2012 reply

Not me.

The only reason I care now is I want a little balance to the Chiefs bashing that is going on because of the hurt feelings in the media. If the Chief need to take extra steps to be competitive or turn things around then so be it. If these @$$ holes had any pride in the team they work for (or cover in the journalist case) they would be glad the are tightening things up. I’ve seen this before in a completely different business. When thing get working and people have earned trust from management things will lighten up. In the case i am describing it was very necessary.

Why must the media continue to conspire against this team?!!?!

This is all just made up

HIV 2 Elway - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

I doubt it is completely made up.

It is pretty obvious why they would exaggerate the hell out of it though.

Not so sure. There's just to many facts to all be wrong.......such as:

"I’m not going to say that we’ve never done it, but it’s not something we do," Donovan said.

"The capability was definitely there for Big Brother to be watching," said Schneider, whose job was to oversee maintenance at team facilities.

"I don’t think that anything would surprise anyone, really," said a former employee who worked for the Chiefs for more than two decades. "That’s how Scott wants it."

Thum declined comment when reached by telephone.

"I don’t think that’s ever been an issue for me. I know that people have done it," Farmer said. "They don’t want to be seen going with this person or that person. I understand — I hate to say this — I understand the process that some people felt they needed to take, but again, I never kind of adhered to that behavior."

And a lot more.

You ever worked for a corporation?

The technology is there. More and more each day. Some use it excessively, some do not. Big whup. Do your job, do it right, and you have no problem.

I can't believe people actually yry to defend statements like this

Do your job, do it right, and you have no problem.

Fall in line, Comrade. Big Brother provides and should not be question. Independent thought is for Dissenters. The owls are not what they seem.

Sad really.

When the job market is tight people are willing to accept any crap and justify horrible bosses.

Do your job, do it right, and you have no problem.

And it’s obviously untrue. Great people are out of work through no fault of their own. Unfortunately, I guess there’s always a market for suck ups.

I know, huh

I’m “advanced middle age” … too old to start over and too young to retire, well educated and intelligent (if sarcastic) … excellent communications skills, both verbal and written, tech-savvy, etc etc ad nauseum … can’t get a job in my chosen career field (education) and can’t can’t a job outside my field (not in THIS economy)

because I can’t get a job I must, by definition, be a lazy no-good irresponsible person with no redeeming values

Right, but then you can still be acceptable to the far-right

If you blame your plight on illegal immigrants. Sorry, can’t help myself very well. I just can’t stand the insanely exaggerated “personal responsibility” rhetoric that always goes around. Somehow, people are uniquely personal responsible for their actions (as in a free-will vacuum) yet spend all of their time interacting with other people in situations with very limited options. The latter being indisputably true means the former is indisputably false.

We have a responsibility to not be a encumbrance on those better off.

I think that is what Mitt said.

We all should just die and make sure we do not bother the upper crust while we do it.

well put, Steve

I like a lot of what you believe, kw.

And I’ll also disagree with a lot of what you believe as well, lol.

Humans are replete with Social Traps. All no-win, zero-sum game solutions. Why can’t we ever actually evolve and progress to win-win games and solutions? The latter stays only philosophical, while the former is THE reality of us. So it goes …

Have you read any of Kurt Vonnegut’s stuff? He does a good job of blowing this “free-will” and “personal responsibility” theories taken to the insane extreme all to hell based upon his experiences in WW 2 in Slaughterhouse-Five. Great book (and, ehhh … decent movie) if you haven’t read it. Peace.

Cleaning house, about time. Need more of it

From the Star??? such a reliable source of honest, truthful, fact.. These people have no idea how difficult, expensive and resource intensive the kinds of things they are alleging actually are. Not to mention illegal !!! It’s like all the Big Brother crap conspiracy theorists go on about.

Cannot believe so many of you are buying this. Before you end up looking like as big of a clown as the Star, think it through people.

Rainbow hair and big floppy shoes available at amazon.com

Gumpster - January 15, 2012 reply

The age discrimination cases are real

This will get ugly and I won’t be defending the Chiefs on this. If it is true, there will be huge out of court settlements or court judgments. Can’t sweep this under the rug.

Home Run Tony Cogan - January 15, 2012 reply

same song, different verse

Lamar/Carl-worry about filling kauffman stadium for a football game, TD Pack Band, Captain D’s defensive play of the game, each player having a charity, having a home game on thanksgiving.

Clark/Scott-worry about candy wrappers, bugging people’s offices, being a second-rate imitation of the Patriots, “PUT THE HAMMER DOWN”

Meanwhile, successful organizations worry about one thing: winning. There is a reason that the Packers, Steelers, 49ers, Giants, and Cowboys have won Super Bowls, torn themselves down, and won Super Bowls again-because they focus on one thing, and that’s winning. Until the Hunt family has an epiphany or sells the team, we will continue to be a national laughingstock that has lost 6 consecutive playoff games under 4 different head coaches and 2 GM/ownership combinations.

KC to the core but the way this organization has been run for 40+ years is a joke…a complete philosophical change is immediately necessary.

Hmmmm

None of us readers know exactly what went on behind the scenes. And to say this or that should be done is pure misguided speculation. It’s akin to picking a weapon before you know what you’re hunting.

Maybe the employees who were fired were right. Or maybe, they were fired because they sucked. How many people in your office are taking a free ride at your expense? They do as little as possible while you are forced to “cover” for them. I learned a long time ago to hold off decisions until I have enough facts.

This is what we as fans are left to deal with. There are little facts here that we know. It’s pure speculation. So why not look at what we know.

First, Mr. Pioli’s decision to run a “tight ship” has rubbed many people the wrong way. Fans want to have inside information on the daily Chiefs situation. The front office tried that before and that’s one of the reasons the team lost so much. So I would have to say in my opinion this move was not just a need, but a must. We have all seen in our own workplace that a change in philosophy brings unrest. But the proof is productivity. And the fact is that the team’s productivity has improved. Many football insiders rave about the Chiefs future.

Second, if the incumbent staff were good, why did the Chiefs do so badly?

Third, anytime an organization changes leadership there is also changes at the middle and bottom. The Chiefs have just decided to NOT air their dirty laundry in public, that’s all. And this has led to speculation. Is the “fan” entitled by right to know all the details … NO!

Fourth, is censorship. Every office or business does it if they want to be and stay competitive. We all deal with it. The Chiefs should be no exception. However, the idea of “tampered” personal phones is laughable. What is this … Mission Impossible? Not to mention that it’s illegal. And I don’t mean against the rules of the NFL. It’s against the constitution of the United States of America.

So let’s face facts. Todd Haley was fired because he was, well … “Todd Haley”.

He’s a paranoid megalomaniac who lost the team because of his personality. C’mon man … “they bugged my office and tampered with my phone” … REALLY?!

And the other employees were let go (until we know more with the lawsuits) because they too were not doing their job to the satisfaction of the new management. That’s all. Haven’t we all had trash used as an example on how we need to do better and pay more attention to details at our jobs. Sure we have … so what. Get thicker skin, quit whining and do it better. I wonder how many employees at the Chiefs are glad that some or all of the others were released.

Finally, Scott Pioli may be the irretrievable #@%&hole being whispered about. We’ve all worked for jerks. But if that “jerk” gets results then he was right. And while I don’t know yet if Scott is the answer for the Chiefs woes, He has improved the team (while only marginally). I am still more willing to put faith in a quiet determined jerk of a leader than the whines of ex-employee or the paranoid fantasies of a failed coach.

Side note: Was Todd Haley even mentioned as a candidate for any of the open head coaching jobs this year? No? … I wonder why? Hmmmmm

Grey Wolf - January 15, 2012 reply

Glad we are sticking to the facts!

So let’s face facts. Todd Haley was fired because he was, well … "Todd Haley".

He’s a paranoid megalomaniac who lost the team because of his personality.

Sacramento Chief - January 15, 2012 reply

Pioli must go

This is the most inane way to run an organization. Who is he trying to emulate? Kim Jung Il?

Dagda - January 15, 2012 reply

This is necessary for they franchise to move forward.

move forward to where ... Korea?

Sacramento Chief - January 15, 2012 reply

the

Pioli is trying to emulate a dead guy?

Sacramento Chief - January 15, 2012 reply

Its like this in almost every Company

When senior staff members and executives stay in position for too long they tend to get a little more relaxed then they need to be. This is contagious and spreads across the whole staff. When the need for change is finally realized it has gone too far. Pioli is just molding this franchise into what it takes to be competitive again. Of course the staff is going to complain. They’ve been getting away with sub-par work for years and know their finally help accountable. Good job Scott!

I see those who so ruitinley felate Pioli are now resulting to name calling

Must be something to this report

So the mouth breathers are now "resulting" to name calling?

yes, ruitinley.

Heh

Start at the center.

When you want to build a quality organiztion (of any type) you start with the foundation. Players/coaches will come and go, but the executive staff stick around. Too many had been there so long that I think they probably felt they were above scrutiny.

Attention to detail is a learned trait not something you just tell everyone to do better at. It won’t happen. When a city wants to seriously crack down on crime, do they focus on murder and robbery? No, traffic. You will see a tremendous increase in traffic stops. Focusing on the lowest level infraction leads to changed behaviour in all activiities. It is leadership 101. It is why the military focuses on such meanial tasks in basic training. It isn’t the immediate activity they are concerned with, but the follow on behaviour of the soldier.

It wsa an interesting article, but when you interview “disgruntled” former employees, you won’t get glowing reviews. About the same as interview 20 inmates and 3 guards at a prison. You are going to end up with a negative view.

Funny that they are even able replace these “stalwart” employees with such a negative working environment in place.

BinSC - January 15, 2012 reply

Meh, standard corporate practices

New president, new staff. Nothing really new here.

Pacific Chief - January 15, 2012 reply

Except for the HOOPLA!

so one thing i noticed is

That Haley wouldn’t ever answer questions in his press conferences but Romeo does. He seems to tell us things before he’s even asked. Maybe Haley is just a paranoid guy all the time.

jcrunninwild - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Bingo!

Change

Is typically a stressful thing.

But as a manager I have to say if you’re brought in to effect change, it’s much easier to start tough and ease up later than to come in as an easy going manager and try to tighten up.

wrongway7 - January 15, 2012 reply

I have a few thoughts on this.

I have worked in the same corporate environment for 10 1/2 years. One thing I have noticed from that environment is that there is always a contingent of the employees that are paranoid about their jobs, and their paranoia significantly increases when either an economic downturn occurs or a major change is made in senior management. Every time our stock dips or we have a round of layoffs I am subjected to the constant grumblings from some that we are being downsized in order to be sold to . I can tell you that I have personally heard loud grumblings with very specific names of the competitor in three instances over my time there. We’ve never been sold, and we’ve continued to grow afterward. I have lived through a CEO change with the company and multiple direction changes in our global sales, marketing, products, and services. In each case there has been significant change in middle management staffing and often losses of lower level jobs caused by the restructuring. It has also been pretty obvious that certain middle management employees were either fired or demoted because their position was based on their relationship with the previous manager that was fired.

Their is an acronym that is often used in the corporate world, FUD, which stands for fear, uncertainty, and doubt. The FUD factor of any policy often results in these types of paranoia. In addition, all people have a natural aversion to change. The Chiefs have undergone a transition in ownership and senior leadership. There will undoubtedly exist a very uneasy feeling in employees with long tenures in the organization. They have known no owner but Lamar Hunt. For many of them, they have known no GM other than Carl Peterson. Their tenures are long enough not to remember that many of them took the jobs of other long-tenured employees when Mr. Peterson was hired. The uneasiness described in this article is to be expected to some extent.

This team has been decidedly mediocre for quite some time. We are all familiar with the duration since the team’s last playoff win, much less since their only SB Championship. That kind of culture requires a drastic change if you want to meet the goal of being a perennial SB competitor. That requires accountability at all levels. I believe that level of accountability more than likely waned during Lamar’s last years due to his age and health. The idea that an organization holds all levels to a high standard does not bother me.

Now, for the negatives that I see in this article. First and foremost, a team will not succeed with the level of distrust that seems evident between the HC and his upper management, specifically his GM. If Haley believed that Pioli distrusted him this much, then there was a problem that likely had roots in both sides. I personally think Haley is emotionally unstable, but Pioli should have done a better job of communicating with Haley here. That needs to be a partnership in order to get quality results on the field. As the article points out, a coach that is distracted by this paranoia will not be effective, and just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean people aren’t out to get you.

I have seen corporate environments that use this concept of accountability and efficiency to become so obtrusive in each employee’s daily job function that it actually results in inefficiency and loss of good employees. The levels of secrecy that were described in this article promotes an air of distrust throughout the organization. I know I personally would not work for an organization that indicates that it doesn’t trust me by completely walling me off from the primary function of my business. The idea that the sales, marketing, and operational portions of the business should have no insight into the product seems ludicrous. It also indicates a certain level of insecurity and inadequacy of the football side of the organization, in my opinion.

The best way to alleviate tension caused by significant organizational change is through communication. If employees understand what they have to do to help pull the rope for the company, they are far less likely to work against the change. Some that had too much invested in the previous method will not be able to make the change. That’s just a fact of life. Still, I think creating an environment that induces stress in an industry that is already highly stressful is likely a recipe for failure.

agree with first paragraph

also to add to it, conspiracy lovers exist everywhere….im sure some are inside the chiefs org

SDChief - January 15, 2012 reply

Why would you say that?

Who are you working for?

WHO SENT YOU!??!!?!?

but nothing from the last 3?

agree with first paragraph

Yeah, I believe the same guy wrote those.

Hey, ...

if somebody agrees with any of my ideas that’s an improvement over most days. :-)

nice!

to ept

On the flip side, I have worked at the same desk for almost 30 years and I have seen 1, 2, 3, 4 different employers. Wheras some of those changes effected upper mngt mainly, the last has cost more than a third of our employees their jobs. Part was due to the economy but most was attributable to a single large share holder that was un-happy with his return on investment.
While he could of sold out he WHINED abd forced a sale at a very bad time for my particular industry. Now my corp loaded with debt needed to free up cash flow and started cutting, cutting, cutting, and more cutting. We could have been a far better product cept for one un-happy rich man nd one stupid rich man. Now 5,000 or more good workers are doing something else or nothing at all.

and it's that same whine whine whine greedy corporate profit before people concept that's gotten us 10 Million other unemployeds

Yep, all different kinds of stories but same result

I know ... and honestly, it's not that I'm complaining or whining about the inequality of it all

I’mnot happy about it, but hey … I know that I’m not alone in my situation

I'm a little confused, Steve.

I wasn’t really making a statement about how my company does it right, wrong, or indifferent. My point was simply that I have seen the effects of change as it ripples through the organization. The statements in this article concerning the fear experienced by long-time employees about a new regime, in my experience, have been commonplace. Often the change wasn’t even required to to create the panic throughout the company. As such, I was simply cautioning that panic felt by a subset of employees at the onset of a drastic change in leadership such as the Chiefs have experienced since Mr. Hunt’s passing is certainly to be expected. As such, the mere reporting that this type of panic was felt by a couple dozen former and current employees shouldn’t definitively indicate that the new manager is to blame.

The Chiefs have known no owner other than Mr. Hunt. Mr. Peterson had been with the organization since I was still trying to figure out how to talk to girls during lunch. That big of a change will be met with resistance from some and fear from others.

Now, as I said earlier, that doesn’t mean that I don’t believe that Mr. Pioli may be creating a poor work environment. I’m just saying one doesn’t necessarily demand the other. However, I’m not sure what you were responding to in my earlier comment.

I have too

and while you examine the effects I feel the effects on those lab rats you seem to amuse on.

Sorry if that is not your point

Why do you keep taking my statements as some shot at you?

I’m not amused by the fact that thousands of people have lost their job in the last four years. My company went through significant layoffs, too. However, neither the layoffs at your company nor mine really have any significant impact on the discussion at hand. The discussion that is presented by this fanpost is regarding the nature of the working environment being created by the new management team of the Chiefs. I used my corporate experience solely to provide insight as to how rumor and paranoia within an organization spreads due to change and a lack of clear vision and communication from the management team. In what way does that relate to a stockholder choosing to dismantle your company to increase his profits?

I’m sorry you misunderstand me, but I don’t work for the Kansas City Chiefs. I am simply indicating that the fear and paranoia of employees for an organization that has recently undergone massive management changes should be expected and is not necessarily indicative of a problem with the new management team. It occurs even if the most competent and benevolent management team were to take over.

I don't

But you have a sorta arrogant attitude about people that irks me.

We are People just like you and have lives just like you but you seem detached from us and the point of your thoughts seems Scientific rather than humanistic.

not sure what to think

i do believe they had to rid arrowhead of any leaks, hence the hatred they get from places like WPI that thrive on “sources”

thing is, if they start winning, i dont care if they bug romeo’s phone. he shouldnt have anything to hide. neither should have todd.

all of this is just too much, this is the type of information i wish would stay in house

SDChief - January 15, 2012 reply

Well, they can't/shouldn't bug personal phones.

Of course, there’s no evidence that they did. Only Haley’s paranoia.

Only in the designated hallways.

this is the type of information i wish would stay in house

I'm not ready to throw Pioli under the bus just yet...

but there are some troubling signs, such as Chiefs PR staff being at the interviews of current employees… that seems like a way of saying the Chiefs don’t even trust the people they proclaim as trustworthy. If they’re bugging people’s phones, they’ve crossed a line, I would think a legal one. Those confidentiality agreements should also be illegal but they’re used all the time, even in the public sector, which I would think is just downright undemocratic. I really don’t want all the chaos and change new management would bring, but I’m starting to wonder what Pioli learned and did during SpyGate. If these reports are accurate, and I’m not willing to just outright believe them just yet, then Pioli is running things like a Communist totalitarian, which I would think would be unacceptable here. I sincerely hope he’s just been trimming the bloated, entitled fat from the Peterson era. They do operate under such a veil of secrecy it’s really hard to figure out what the hell is going on. I really don’t think this is how Parcells ran things in his day.

Pioli is the boss

He is not there to make friends. He is not there to make everyone feel safe and loved.

He is there to bring the SB trophy back to Kansas City.

He is doing the right thing…cleaning house of employees who don’t fit his philosophy of winning. Pioli is responsible for our ultimate success so he is obviously putting his stamp on the franchise.

Bottom line is he is the boss, he makes the rules…..if you don’t like it, hit the road!

Matt_Grbac - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

thanks, Scott!

No problem ups!

Just gotta get these lazy, entitled employees in line.

Even if that means tapping their phones, private investigators, spy cams, toilet cams, shower cams, hiding in their closets and under their beds.

Matt_Grbac - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

you mean Baldwin and Bowe and Cassel and Palko and Jamaal and Eric and ...

Just gotta get these lazy, entitled employees in line

That kind of heavy-handed management style seldom works in a large company.

His success is reliant on too many people to believe that he can develop a tyrannical environment and still get the results he wants. There are other employment opportunities for the best employees, and that style of management will result in an organization populated primarily with sycophants and incompetence. That path doesn’t lead to continued success.

Not true

He learned this style from Belichick himself. In the book “War Room” it tells how Pioli and Belichick are a lot alike and Dimitroff is totally different.

Pioli isn’t above having fun and cutting up. He just knows that the Chiefs needs a culture of being responsible and accountable.

You go to any big successful company and they operate the same way.
At Coca-Cola they moniter the merchandisers and salesmen with GPS tracking. That is severe micromanagement.

At the end of the day it’s about results. The prior regimes were not getting results so it was time for a change. If being nice and liberal wasn’t cutting it then it’s time to be mean and conservative.

Matt_Grbac - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Don't drag politics into it, especially when you don't seem to understand the terms.

I work in a position that has put me into more large corporate environments than I can count. I’ve seen how they operate. I’ve seen the types of environments that are described in this article in extremely large companies such as Proctor & Gamble, Coca-Cola, GM, Chrysler, Anheuser-Busch etc, ad nauseum. I can also tell you that it results in inefficient output of employees and a likelihood that the most competent employees find somewhere else to work. Anheuser-Busch may have had the greatest collection of incompetence in its engineering department that I’ve ever seen. The automotive industry is on life-support because of the suffocating management style that focus on minutiae rather than results.

I believe entirely in a chain of command and unimpeachable rules; however, an obtrusive management method results in poor attitudes that cause poorer production. If Anheuser-Busch would have leaned down even half of its excess and waste, they would still be an American company. If the automotive industry wasn’t such an oppressive, combative environment, they wouldn’t be closing plants at the rate that they are. I’ve seen it in person, and I know what it costs them.

Best Buy is another splendid example of mis-management and heavy-handed tactics by top people in the organization

… also why Best Buy is slowly going by the wayside

You can disagree with managment techniques

but to then say something illegal or immoral was done is taking it too far. People are acting like there’s going to be a federal investigation of this. Hunt and Pioli are running their organization as they feel fit to guarantee its success. Part of that is to not allow the stupid KC media to know everything. When the media pulls crap like this, I think that is more and more justified every day.

well, if ... IF ... age discrimination was beingpracticed, then yes, it IS illegal

and immoral

There aren't times when age discrimination is justified?

Really? Ask NFL coaches.

But the case is, it is denied that age was a factor.

It just happened that the old guard, that had been there 20+ years, was 20+ years older than people Pioli wanted in.

Disgruntled former employees don’t have much sway with me, especially when current employees think it’s going okay.

Two things.

1) The cases of age discrimination have yet to be decided, so there is no resolution as to whether or not it happened or not. However, age discrimination is NOT justified. Age is not an accurate measure of capability, and legally, capability is supposed to be the deciding factor. So, no, it isn’t justified.

2) The article indicated that many of the interviews with current employees were conducted with members of the Chiefs’ PR staff present. Does that sound as though one is likely to receive an accurate definition of the environment? So, when a wife or child refuse to acknowledge abuse because of the fear of retribution that means it isn’t happening? That is a terrible argument.

2) So what? I’m not taking either side as gospel truth. Both sides have motivations. This point proves nothing.

You stated ....

Disgruntled former employees don’t have much sway with me, especially when current employees think it’s going okay.

My point 2) was in rebuttal to that. You indicate that somehow you can trust what the current employees said in the article but that the former employees have no credibility. That indicates that you have taken a side, and that you are siding with the current employees credibility. I don’t see how that can be trusted based on these interviews.

I think it says something when current employees rebuff the claims of past employees.

But it’s not knockdown proof, no.

The point is that the statements of the current employees ....

were virtually all under the scrutiny of upper management. If anything, the fact that the Chiefs required that a PR staff member be present lends circumstantial support to the claims of a domineering workplace. Of what were they so afraid that these individuals couldn’t be allowed to speak on their own?

My point is that the current employees rebuffs have no validity because of the perception of coercion. Consequently, at best, they are seen as equally biased and neither have any validity.

This was the most damning part

of Babb’s story. It’s like when the Cubans line up their Communist party hacks with Fidel sitting next to them saying they just had free and fair elections. I think Babb is one of the Star’s best reporters, too, and not very sensationalistic. I think his piece was fair. The jury’s still out but if it comes out they did tap employee’s phones, then the shit is going to hit the fan.

and without the "stupid media" you end up with more illegal and immoral practices and no accountability

in Germany in the 30’s that very same style of government became what is known as a Facist Regime … aka the Nazi Party

maybe you’ve heard of them? there’s a reason we have freedom of the press …

I'm not against a free media.

I’m against a sensationalistic media that is obsessed with muckraking, especially when they provide no evidence in a rhetorical fluff piece.

since when is an article that includes interviews and quotes from people in the workplace "sensationalistic"

what you have here is a balanced reporting of views of both sides … quotes from management and employees, both current and former … that’s far from biased

and reporting isn’t muckraking, nor is it a fluff piece … fluff is on your 6 O’Clock news when someone is “reporting” how a fireman got a kitty out of a tree

Since it focuses on the most sensational claims, and has the tone of a murder mystery novel.

Babb know those points will get the most focus, while Hunt’s denial will be passed over.

But it seems par for the course for you to just accept negative claims as gospel truth.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrydownes/2012/01/02/why-best-buy-is-going-out-of-business-gradually/

etp ... you might like this one

as well as electriclight

that and the followup article … fascinating study in how NOT to succeed

You're acting as if this is the gospel or something.

you're acting as if whatever Pioli does is gospel or something

No, I want evidence. Not hearsay.

I don’t take simple accusations as unvarnished truth, especially when the accusers have motive to make the accused look as bad as possible in the public light.

What we do have as established facts are other than is what is being presented.

What are those established facts?

All I have seen is hearsay from each side. Do you have evidence other than what was presented in this article? The age discrimination suits have yet to be heard, so that could go either way. Even the President of the Chiefs indicated that the business side is cut off from the football operations. The facts presented were substantiated that electronic monitoring of conversations was practiced, and the purpose was interpretation by both sides. Please indicate the facts to which you are referring.

ok, look at it this way ...

let’s “assume” that what those employees said is actually true … follow along here: if true, what motive do they have other than a better working environment?

perhaps instead of the “accusers” with motive, you should look at those who are defending their actions instead

methinks the GM doth protest too much

If he denies it, he's guilty.

If he says nothing he’s guilty. If he admits it he’s guilty.

Got it.

You'll get a kick out of this, Ups.

My little brother is big into his media and electronics. He now boycotts buying anything from Best Buy because they use coax in all of their local stores to connect their HDTVs to the video signal for all of their display units. He says if they are so ignorant of the quality difference that they would fail to present their equipment in the best manner that he won’t patronize their establishment. It’s a common case of blind efficiency decisions hindering their business.

you should read that article ... it's amazing how out of touch they are with anything remotely resembling "good business practices"

and of course the CEO goes into denial about it … just as they shrugged off any culpability or fault with their Black Friday fiasco

I read the article, Ups.

It seems to me that Best Buy is having the same issue that as a lot of large companies. They were dominant in a period when people had a great deal of artificial wealth and debt flowed freely. People spent a great deal of money on toys to impress their friends. Then, both the economic climate and the technology for how to go to market changed dramatically. They underestimated the threat, and thus they took too long to adopt changes. In addition, the types of changes that are described in the article require a significant upfront investment, which is seldom done in publicly traded companies. So, instead they spend time polishing the silver while the ship goes down.

Personally, I don’t necessarily like the way the article is presented, as it compare two very different companies. While not exactly apples and oranges, it isn’t apples to apples, either. Contrary to the statements in the article, I don’t find internet shopping alone to be convenient. I do agree with the Best Buy executive’s statement that I use them as a generic storefront. What they don’t understand is that I would rather just leave with the item when I leave the store. However, if the buying experience or the cost is drastically out of whack, then I’ll still go shop online.

I will I've had a very similar in-store experience with their salespeople ...

it’s very aggressive, a lot of pushing … and I detest being pushed like that, especially in a condescending manner by “kids” that know less about what their talking about than I do

And they are more intent on selling the service policy than the actual item.

profit margin

I work in support of sales in my company, and the one thing I've learned ....

is that you better listen to your customer if you want him/her to buy things from you on a regular basis. The used car salesman approach is derided in most sales circles at this point. The hard sell works because most get flustered when presented with a confrontational situation. It usually results in buyer’s remorse later, and that is why many people refuse to even talk to salesmen, even if they could be of service to them. I attribute the anxiety of dealing with aggressive salesmen as a very high percentage of the reason why people have resorted to shopping online in the first place.

I have been taught by some very good salesmen that I have worked with and my own experiences that you will have far better long term success by listening to the customer define his/her problems and guiding him/her to a solution than by trying to guess at the problem and offer solutions that don’t fit.

yup ... the worst thing you can do in sales is "oversell"

It's kinda like the old saw.

You can shear a sheep many times but skin him only once.

I often to like to fantasize their is a place that is hell.

And I further like to believe that their are very special rooms reserved for most lawyers, politicians, cops, bosses, management, marketers, human resources and PR types … and especially – SALESMEN! Yes … the professional BULLIES and professional LIARS of the world. Have a nice day! :+)

I'm old-school, too

I like seeing and handling what I’m about to buy. I’ve bought auto parts online before and that was a disaster. Cheap, crappy parts that didn’t last (made in China, like almost everything nowadays). A new trend I’ve noticed in retail at Blockbuster (now owned by DISH Network) and Walgreens is corps disciplining employees that don’t upsell mostly junk to consumers. I find that really egregious and I wish someone would sue these companies on the behalf of the consumer to stop the aggressive hawking and the abuse of their employees who have no choice but to aggressively hawk crap, alot of it diabetes-inducing, or get fired.

Good points, but this is untrue:

If Anheuser-Busch would have leaned down even half of its excess and waste, they would still be an American company.

The truth is, if A-B had kept control of 51% of their stock, they’d still be an American company. They didn’t, and InBev bought them. A-B foolishly believed no one company or person had the cash to buy a controlling interest.

Did you ever work with A-B?

I have experience working in A-B along with a pretty extensive group of people that have also worked there or done work there. I also have worked with corporate sales managers from our company that did significant dealings with the corporate stakeholders at A-B. Your statement is factually correct, but it completely ignores the underlying failures of the company. I have seen the waste personally, and I have seen the structure of the company, specifically the corporate engineering department. They promoted based on race and gender in reverse discriminatory practices, and they created an environment that cost them some of their best employees based on an environment that focused more on political tactics than capability in their job functions. They were primarily buoyed by a web of consulting and integration firms that often had duplicate responsibilities to direct employees.

I’m telling you personally I know that they could have successfully retained control of that company had they leaned down and they wouldn’t have lost the market share that they have in the last several years. Now, they are in a world of hurt because the things they actually did do well are being marginalized by In-Bev.

No, I OWNED A-B stock.

A-B was crushed when InBev stated their intent to buy a controlling interest, and did not want it to happen. InBev said, tough shit, we’re buying you. You can look it up.

It was a tidy profit for A-B shareholders, by the way.

True, they didn't want it to happen.

I live in St. Louis, so of course I understand the mechanisms of how it went down. It was reported daily for months. However, you’re talking about the final blow. That’s comparable to believing that the Vandals destroyed the Roman Empire. That would be a ludicrous statement. The Roman Empire destroyed itself over many years resulting in the shell that was broken by the Vandals. The same can be said about A-B.

wow

sounds like almost every career in the U.S. nowadays as regards the politics over competence part.

for 143 Million or One winning powerball ticket I could buy the company

I work for public shares.

That would maybe pay for the printing facility in one city. The rest would be free

Which is the reason that large companies would fail without government intervention.

I don’t really want to get into politics on a sports blog, but large companies only survive their own incompetence by governmental support intended to prevent large unemployment that would be caused by their failures.

since when does being mean have anything to do with being effective and successful?

Dick Vermeil was never accused of being mean and petty, but he was most certainly successful … same of Marty Schottenheimer, and while we’re at it Carl Peterson (unless you consider the Chiefs of the 90’s to be some kind of abject failure … I certainly don’t)

there’s a difference between bringing in new people for a “fresh start” and what’s going on here … this is an oppressive, petty and mean-spirited organization from top to bottom, and that’s never conducive to success

and let’s face it: if you were in a position to be a whistle blower, would you want your name on it while you were still working for that organization, knowing that your job was on the line? I doubt it … here’s a reason these people asked to remain anonymous, a very good reason indeed

Exactly

Although transferring with the same multi-national company from Florida to Kansas, I have noticed that Midwesterners are more tolerant of the heavy-handed management style you mention. Modern management tries to get people on board with the mission, while treating them like adults.

Midwesterners value work ethic.

They are less likely to believe they are entitled to the paycheck, and that the company “owes” them their smoke breaks, long lunches, and paid leaves.

you haven't been to a high school lately, have you?

less a midwestern thing and more the “me generation” and those subsequent … the sense of entitlement is rampant among students, this from many years of “social promotion” policies hand down to the schools from the top ’

this has resulted in students doing less and in many instances no work at all, yet fully expecting to be passed on to the next grade level (and in middle school that happens) … in high school the students move on, but often don’t get credits and are stunned that suddenly they’re seniors lacking multiple credits because they failed to do what was needed to pass their classes

at that point they often go ballistic, demanding that they “graduate” and get their diploma …

even worse, some if not many school district now flat out tell teachers that they are not allowed to fail the students, regardless of work undone … the teachers are then blamed for the lack of education and the failures of students and falling test scores, when in reality the teachers would far prefer to hold the kids back years before so the students at least begin to understand the meaning of the word “responsibility”

this is endemic in our entire society … “I want it and I want it NOW” … what hurts the most is that we do a disservice to our society as well as the kids … and the teachers are blamed for doing what they’re told to do

when teachers say anything to administration, their comments and fears are disregarded, and those teachers … if they push the issue … are generally the first to be fired (and yes, that happens despite what people think about unions)

I assume you're talking about public schools?

This doesn’t exist in any private school I’ve ever heard of. Unless you know of something I don’t?

jsChiefs23 - January 15, 2012 reply

correct

the reason I mention it here, aside from the previous comment … is that the teachers are generally more equipped to solve the real issues than the administrators

and that same thing goes for many businesses and corporations: let the people doing the work actually DO their work without heavy-handed rules and interference

to take the analogy a step further … many school districts across the country have bought out the contracts of older teachers (early retirement) and others have have simply had their contracts “non-renewed” … new hires are nearly always kids out of college with less experience (obviously) and less knowledge than older, more experienced teachers (who often still want to continue working) because those right-out-of-college teachers are far cheaper to employ … in other words, the bottom line is, indeed, the bottom line … with only cursory lip-service paid to the education that the students are getting

the product itself is ignored, and that’s sad because the product in this case is people and society

Well said as I completely agree.

Not much to add as It has become a sad reality that doesn’t appear to be making any progress.

jsChiefs23 - January 15, 2012 reply

Yes the is the essence of Total Quality. The people actually doing the jobs are the experts.

let the people doing the work actually DO their work without heavy-handed rules and interference

this is a deep blog

Must be why I keep coming back. As a teacher, I have to agree with on a lot of your critique. Unfortunately neither retention or promotion work because there is no systematic remediation of the student. Private schools are hit or miss. They are often paid less than their public school counterparts but that is mostly due to the absence of union representation.

teacher to teacher ... tip o' the helmet, Nico

That's an antiquated generalization.

It depends upon the age of the workers to which you are referring. We have an entire generation of “midwesterners” that are now entering the workforce with the same sense of entitlement as anywhere else in the country. Personal responsibility for your position in life doesn’t seem to be remarkably more alive in the midwest than anywhere else, and many, many companies that hire in the midwest have the same issues with employees demanding smoke breaks, long lunches, and paid leaves as in many other places in the country. Again, I’ve worked in factories all over the country, and I haven’t seen a remarkable difference in the attitudes, despite the politically correct definitions presented on the campaign trails.

RIght. I never compared work ethic.

I agree. You didn't. Neiowakcfan took your comments to a different level.

As an Illinois girl, I can tell that's not always true.

I had some of the highest productivity marks in my company quarter after quarter, but was a first-line layoff. Why? Primarily because I wouldn’t simply go along with management when they were empirically incorrect or do something without a reason “just because we told you too”. If I were in that boardroom with Pioli when he brought up the candy wrapper, I would have scribbled my resignation on the nearest scrap of paper, walked up to the front and dropped it on his briefcase.

The marginal benefit lost from the existence of that candy wrapper is nil, and using it as some “example of laziness” is bunk. If it were a quarter or a sheet from a playbook or a note from one worker to another, I doubt it would have stayed there too long. But a candywrapper poses no threat, betrays no information, takes up minimal space, likely poses no safety hazard, etc… any more than a coffee stain or other minor piece of dirtiness that one expects the janitor to cover in their normal rounds. It’s also a minor example of comparative advantage and job specialization – meaning that the modern workplace is designed for people to not go out of their way to pick stuff up unless it is of benefit to them or the company. Likely, that wrapper made NO impact, and the 5 minutes (maybe worth $20 of time to Pioli) and the impact on those in the boardroom (who knows what the MU wasted from that was) was vastly greater than just leaving it there until someone with a dustpan inevitably picked it up. Micro-managing stifles creativity, which is a heck of a lot more dangerous than this kind of “unaccountability”.

too bad they all didn't do that ...

If I were in that boardroom with Pioli when he brought up the candy wrapper, I would have scribbled my resignation on the nearest scrap of paper, walked up to the front and dropped it on his briefcase.

Agree

Rec'd

Do you have something against

picking up trash? If true, that’s an anecdote I actually appreciate about Pioli. That bit made me respect him more than a lot of the rest of the article did.

No, because I respect janitors.

However, it’s usually counter-productive, not to mention potentially unsanitary, for regular employees to go out of their way doing something that doesn’t really provide any benefit – hence my comment. MU of picking up the wrapper outside of normal trash duties? 0. MB of not doing it = No wasted opportunity cost. Also, it reeks of irrational perfectionism imho. This isn’t just one candy wrapper – if you had this sort of nitpicky madness for every little imperfection (why didn’t you pick up the unused toilet paper on the ground in the stall? Why didn’t you throw away the coffee filter? Why didn’t you shred that paper instead of rumpling it?) would be far more counterproductive and burdensome than just realizing that humans don’t naturally tend towards “Singapore” standards. Nor is it useful to do so on the whole. Again, imho :).

I am sure there are thousands of poorer singalese that clean that city spotless every night

and they receive some benefit

Otayyy .... except for respecting janitors (as I've done that work two or three times too) ...

That esoteric mumbo jumbo you wrote ritch thar made no sense to me at all. But I guess that’s what they teach at business schools, huh? Way over my head – which ain’t hard to do.

MU of picking up the wrapper outside of normal trash duties? 0. MB of not doing it = No wasted opportunity cost.

And whatever the hell “Singapore” standards means? Although, I’m sure I can still mix up a helluva Singapore Sling. :+)

Heh. Definitely not B-School for me.

Just economics terms, though. And it was taught by a Wharton professor heh (I’m at Penn), so it is the center of all things evil about B-school. I"m just an MPA (Public Admin, not Business) for now, along with my law studies. YOu heard about the person who was caned for littering in Singapore some years ago, right? Singapore is actually a weird, quasi-dictatorial state and they have insanely clean streets due to draconian rules and public cleanup efforts.

kwhitegocubs - January 16, 2012 reply

WOWSA!

Yeah … you’re way, way, way over my head in terms of edmucation to the rad max, kw. Ivy League and everything else. So you’re gonna be a another evil lawyer too, huh? Well, I hope you become one the few that fight the good fight for the poor, marginalized and disenfranchised after you pass that bar exam. Ehhh, kinda like Al Pacino was in Justice For All.

JA I remember that case about the caning. Yeah … uhhh … I’ll stay far away from Singapore. Far, far away … Wish I could win the lottery and buy this island off the coast of British B.C. I found on the internet. I think I’d declare my own independent country. And maybe invite a couple of really, really cool people … but mostly I’d start my own animal sanctuary. Heyyy, only a another million or so dead prez to go.

Anywho … I wish you all the best of luck and success in law school and furthering/starting a career as one of them dastardly lawyers. Mahalo! :+)

Exactly

If Accountability is the goal everyone in the organization is accountable, If Power tripping is the Goal then the organization needs a new Leader

You are placing your own assumption as to the purpose of the example.

The marginal benefit lost from the existence of that candy wrapper is nil, and using it as some "example of laziness" is bunk. If it were a quarter or a sheet from a playbook or a note from one worker to another, I doubt it would have stayed there too long.

I don’t believe that it was defined that it was used as an “example of laziness” in the article. It could just as easily have been used as an example of a lower standard of presentation and a failure to pull together as an organization to creating an excellent workplace. It doesn’t even indicate that he believed that any other individual than the janitorial staff should pick up the candy wrapper. The situation could have been resolved sooner by simply having any other person that recognized it make sure that the janitorial staff knew that it needed to be done. It doesn’t have to be done in a demeaning manner, as it could very well have been a systemic failure that resulted in it being there that long. There are many ways to view it other than simple laziness.

Muy magnifico Bravo, kw! And rec'd!

I’ve quit a lot of jobs because the assholes made it unbearable. It wasn’t the job itself, really. Luckily, my chick boss is hella cool, and most of the rest are purty easy going and laid-back in how they treat each other … more or less, lol. We just stay away from the conservation agents, lol; can you say the typical BIG bull*cough*ies. Anywho …

But I think that’s because we’re all working in a field that only interests a very, very few passionate, dedicated, and even obsessed people. People that are much, much more concerned about helping and making a difference in the world …. than we are about petty office politics and melodrama. We’re all just purty damn self-motivated to do our best and work together. And maybe we treat each other better because there are very, very few job/career opportunities in our field; so its best not to burn bridges between us, perhaps?

And yeah, maybe us being evil, lazy, no account gubmint workers do lesson the stress on her and the rest of us because we’re not in an ultra cut-throat, ultra-competitive, muy profit-driven capitialistic enterprise. I don’t know? My educational background is two years of psyche and two years of wildlife management. And the internships and entry-level jobs I’ve gotten in both fields have been the best, most intelligent, humanistic oriented, and most enjoyable people to work with I’ve ever had. And the factory, retail, construction and agricultural ones have been the worst.

Have a great Monday! :+)

So you are some kind of bear whisperer?

My educational background is two years of psyche and two years of wildlife management

;-)

electriclight - January 16, 2012 reply

I would argue that he is not there to bring a SB trophy, he is there to bring a profit.

Topchief1 - January 15, 2012 reply

Meh, sounds like a complacent group of good-ol-boy type employees

who got pissed when a more strict business-minded person shook things up.

Also, I think there’s a cultural shift here as well. Speaking broadly, the way people run businesses and treat their employees in the northeast is WAY different than in the midwest. There is a totally different ethos and way of operating. It seems hurtful and abrasive to us midwesterners, but its just the way things are done out here (I live in NJ now). They would see the more relaxed and friendly midwestern style as inefficient, ineffectual, and perhaps even disingenuous. Scott Pioli would certainly want to change the culture and way of doing things in the organization…and it would likely come off very harshly for those used to a different managing style.

We can all have preferences one way or another on how it should be done, but they’re just that…preferences. To say that one is better or worse is probably not really an adequate way of assessing the situation, IMO.

How about Scott stop worrying about candy

wrappers and draft better.

FrankPitts - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

????

The drafting has been pretty darn good so far. There hasn’t been a Junior Siavii kind of pick yet, that’s for sure…

Alex Magee? DexMex, Arenas, giving up a 2nd for Casshole?

Arenas is a pretty phenomenal talent that is playing at a high level at multiple positions on this team

To balk at that selection is pretty silly. A second rounder for Cassel was an absolute steal at the time, and a dynamite move that led to a pro-bowl performance year last year. We all know Cassel’s weaknesses, sure, but to get that kind of production out of a second rounder (and that’s not even including Vrabel) is fantastic GMing. Dexter McCluster has been inconsistent in his contributions, but has been vital in several wins for this team, and will likely continue to contribute in an important way going forward. Alex Magee was a total bust (for a 3rd rounder), for sure…but the 2009 draft class in general was a bust.

All that to say...

The inability of some fans to evaluate the genuine talent on this team is far from an indictment of Pioli, and much moreso of us.

or a Trezelle Jenkins or Ryan Sims

Or finding a better RT and QB.

Offense of the 70s - January 15, 2012 reply

Nice sources on this

Disgruntled, nameless fired employees are complaining, what a shock. The whole article is spin to make Pioli look bad, that’s what happens when reporters aren’t given stories.

A team that hasn’t won a damn playoff game in so long needed a housecleaning. Tough for people who were there for so long and got comfortable not winning and then got sacked. Players get cut all the time, no one has sympathy for them. Front office people aren’t supposed to keep their jobs for life when the team doesn’t win anything.

Pretty telling that a lot of the nameless disgruntled ex-employees talked about how great it used to be to work there— back when the team wasn’t winning a damn thing. They are nostalgic about those good old days. Those days sucked for me, I am so glad they are over. The culture had to be changed, we’ll see whether it works out or not, but what was there before failed for decades and needed to be gone.

But as a reporter

If this is what your sources, who are close to a situation, are telling you independently and they all seem to tell a similar story isn’t it your responsibility as a reporter to state the information provided without being inflammatory (i.e. making your own assertions) while responsibly not naming your sources who requested anonymity?

True, it can be said these people are disgruntled and cowardly. Kent Babb even points this out in the article (not the cowardly part) that something can be said about each of these employees being “former” employees so it could be slightly “skewed.” But collectively, there is enough here to print a story and let people make their own assertions about it. Babb wasn’t inflammatory about it nor did he make any of his own assertions.

Yeah, people with families who've worked hard for decades...

Are just nameless drones if they don’t out themselves wholly in the local press. Gosh, who cares about organizational culture or humanity or stress or the actual costs/benefits of overbearing management. Also, why does the team winning and losing prove that those employees sucked? Injuries, coaches, luck, timing, and (yeah) GM can account for most of that without meaning that those other employees are unnecessary or lazy in any way.

This is what I remember.

I remember Chiefs fans begging and pleading for a complete disassembly of the Chiefs organization. I remember fans saying “start from the top and rebuild the entire team”. Isn’t this what we’re getting?
Wow….Former employees are disgruntled? In my experience, i’ve never met a person that had been fired to feel any other way than these people feel. Who would ever say, yep, I deserved to get fired?

Chiefs_40 - January 15, 2012 reply

Except that current employees also feel they are working in an oppressive environment.

so GTFO

And when they all have, what do you have left?

The question is, what are you losing and what are you gaining? The employee roster will certainly turn over based on the new regime, but that doesn’t mean that a successful organization will be left when the dust settles. I don’t really care how it comes about, as I don’t work there; however, I personally doubt the validity of the long-term success of an organization built upon a foundation of secrecy and tyranny. I believe you will drive away your best employees that way, and I believe that the distracted focus of those that work there will result in low efficiency.

Why do I care? Because I’m a Chiefs’ fan, and I would like to see them become an elite organization. I don’t believe that’s the track on which they are headed, if this article is accurate.

Bingo

You’d like to attract top talent because they WANT to come here, not because they are simply biding their time, waiting to escape, and knowing their first suggestion for improvement will net them GTFO.

I think a lot of people complaining about this have never worked in a strict corporate environment

I’m sure these people weren’t used to this environment under Peterson, so it was a culture shock, but this is what life is like in ultra competitive organizations. Even in the company I work for (with about 300,000 employees) it’s assumed that work resources are to be used for work purposes only, and that any communications will be archived and are subject to monitoring.

I can’t believe people are bagging on Pioli & Hunt for expecting excellence from the people they employ. It’s not as though they are holding others to a higher standard than they hold themselves. As for the employees & former employees who don’t like it, they knew the expectations…if they don’t like it they can work elsewhere.

it's not a matter of "expecting excellence"

it’s a matter of mean, petty and vindictive management resulting in fear and dread in the workplace … which in turn creates an atmosphere that is anything but excellent

micromanagement and pettiness result in less effective employees, not more effective

But if you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to dread or worry about?

As long as the expectations are laid out in advance, I just don’t see anything wrong with that.

Who said those employees were not competant and productive?

the article did not, Now if there are still 155 people employed at Arrowhead then maybe some were let go for other than competency or some downsizing. We don’t know that

I have never heard of employees in different departments being afraid to have lunch together.

That’s not a strict corporate environment. That’s crap.

The question is, is the fear justified?

Rumors have a life of their own…

That's just not the kind of attitude that pops up in healthy companies.

Whether real or imagined.

Maybe it did in Patriot East

otherwise it is just micromanaging AGAIN

I have, and I understand the tactics that are being employed by the description of this article.

There is a difference between work resources being limited to company use and being spied upon. Those are different, and the latter creates a level of distrust between the employees and their management team. This level of distrust results in distraction and apathy of the employees, neither of which are desirable attributes of a successful workforce.

I believe entirely in expecting excellence, but the method of enforcing it can be the difference in achieving excellence versus failing to reach that bar. Creating silos between departments results in a loss of accountability and wasted resources when it is necessary for those divisions to cooperate. I know it too well from my own corporate experiences. An employee that believes his management sees him/her as expendable must divide his/her attention between doing what is best for the organization and doing what won’t result in his/her firing. Those aren’t always the same thing. That divided attention results in lower production from the organization.

You make some good points

As with everything only time will tell. If it’s only employees from the Peterson regime who are complaining then I attribute their problems to culture change more than management style. If the turnover continues for years down the road then clearly it’s a Hunt/Pioli problem.

From what I understand though, this is pretty typical Wall Street managment-style.

Haley wasn't part of the Peterson regime.

He was one of the primary components to the article, and he was hired by Pioli.

And never said anything!

He never gave a statement, and all that’s said about him is hearsay.

I have never cheated on my wife and as far as I know she never has on me.

If I had I would be consumed with the worry she had and vice versa.

So bringing your own Paranoi into a good relationship screws it upwithout any reason but your own Failures.

Grow a set Scott

The Seven Habits of Spectacularly Unsuccessful Executives

from Forbes

Habit # 1:They see themselves and their companies as dominating their environment
Habit #2: They identify so completely with the company that there is no clear boundary between their personal interests and their corporation’s interests
Habit #3: They think they have all the answers
Habit #4: They ruthlessly eliminate anyone who isn’t completely behind them
Habit #5: They are consummate spokespersons, obsessed with the company image
Habit #6: They underestimate obstacles
Habit #7: They stubbornly rely on what worked for them in the past

Pioli pretty clearly has at least four of these habits … not a good sign by any means

Like I said above.

You're also describing Steve Jobs

who was an ass hole, but he was also incredibly successful.

Not an expert on Jobs but I believe he was incredibly effective at empowering free thinkers, not smothering them.

I'd re-check your sources

Dude was pretty notorious for treating people very harshly for even the most minute mistakes and gaffs.

And that's not even touching the insane security/secrecy issues that company had

Holy cow.

Uh, "accidental leaks" were planned

How better to make your product look cool and desirable than to make it looks like bloggers would actually steal prototypes? Like prototypes ever actually leave the campus on the reg.

c'mon

An employee who was working on the hardware design lost a camouflaged prototype in a restaurant. This was confirmed by the employee, the workers at the restaurant, and Gizmodo (the blog which was sued by Apple for not returning it to them).

I actually worked on the original iPhone implementation from the carrier side, and know of at least one person in my company who was fired because Apple found out that he was talking about the project on some random web blog (everyone involved had to sign NDAs…and that continue through today). They are ridiculously secretive.

And it just seems to happen with every hardware release

Brilliant, close to free, viral advertising. The kind of stuff that reenforces every Mac fanboy’s preconceived mindset. This shit is so cool its worth stealing

cheapham is right

His biography is pretty telling.

He was an absolute perfectionist and expected the same from everyone he worked with (and had no problem firing someone on the spot if they did something dumb). As he said “A” people want to work with other “A” people, and they will excel in that environment. If you have some “B” people there the standards drop, and suddenly you have a bunch of “C” people dragging everyone else down.

Wrong.

Steve Jobs was involved in all the minutiae, and would shove an employee aside and show them how to do it his way.

Outliers are proof, right?

Jobs also flamed out a few times as well. Apple succeeded because of branding, not technology. And iOS/OS X aren’t some great and unapproachable wonders in any category. They used off-the-cart parts and marked them up 40% because of the emotional connection to the brand people had/have. It’s insane and illogical, but it works for them in a way that probably works for no other company. I mean look at all the “I buy Macs cause I’m creative” people – as if more powerful, cheaper computers that can run all of the same software would stifle their creativity. Ugh. I do hate Apple a lot. And I hate that many of my otherwise similar left-wing, 20-something compatriots show the Apple groupthink so often.

Yeah, it's funny to see all these college kids with their macs, knowing 95% of them will have to work with PCs.

Huh?

I said he was successful, and he was…spectacularly so.

I'm just saying it doesn't mean it was because of his style, perhaps in spite of it :).

I mean, if you flip a coin 100 times for a 1,000,000 different iterations, you’ll have an iteration where the results seems spectacularly unfair. Jobs and Apple’s success is such an outlier that I’d tend to take it as an example of randomness, timing, and circumstance more than the amazing ability of one man and his iconolastic, often cruel management style. Smart guy with good ideas, for sure. The NeXT systems were ahead of their time. Almost Amiga-like in that sense :p.

I could understand Jobs insecurity

Bill Gates stole Trillions from him.

Scott Pioli really

I'll bet you other signs of unsuccessful executives would include:

1. Allowing employees to remain lazy and unaccountable.
2. Keeping employees that have said mindset.
3. Having multiple people to do specific tasks when one person could do the same tasks.
4. Allowing their business to bleed money on unnecessary extravagances.

What kind of draconian dystopia workplace would address issues like that?

It's 1984 at 1 Arrowhead.

totally

Bosses Jobsite

Just fire somebody all ready

Number 3, really?

Not widely read up on comparative advantage and specialization are we? You just rolled back the industrial revolution in one fell swoop.

and you know how much extra coffee at the workplace can bleed off millions in potential profits

Maybe in a Fortune 50 company ;)

look ... a Starbucks!

Or maybe all seven.

Wow, spooky and seems to describe this admin to a T.

God, this reminds me of so many corporate tools I know

So, ups, you have decided

that Pioli is Spectacularly Unsuccessful?

no, only that he's spectacularly assholish

that, of course, leads to unsuccessful organizations

It can go both ways

as I mentioned above, Jobs & Apple (and Pixar) are a perfect example of this.

It all comes down to Pioli drafting the right players really… :)

if only he'd limit himself to drafting players ...

My thoughts.....

Most of the people that are complaining have been there for “decades”. They are used to the family run operation that Lamar ran. People bitch all the time when things change. The fact that people were bitching about the candy wrapper says alot about the sources. How can you have pride and leave trash in the stairwell? Not my job attitude?

bonesjackson - January 15, 2012 reply

who cares?

KC media has to be the most over-reactive bunch of foil hat wearing idiots in the nation. I have lived all over the US and I have never heard so much attention on the working environment of the professional teams. These are private organizations that have one duty to the fans, to put an entertaining product on the field. How they go about doing that is nobody’s business as long as it is achieved through legal means.

fairmont - January 15, 2012 via iPhone app reply

I believe that this explains a lot. Pioli couldn't have acted this way around Belichick, he

wouldn’t have stood for it. But with Haley, as soon as they started not getting along, for whatever the reason, Haley would have really been in the hot seat. I’m not defending Haley, but I believe that we all could see that he was not the same firey coach he was before. To me it also explains the Crennel hire. Crennel will be much more co-operative with anything that Pioli tells him like “go with Cassel.” I like Crennel but I do think that he will be more of a “yes” man where I doubt that anybody would ever call Haley that.

So, you think that Belichick could tell Pioli what to do

in New England?

I don't believe that Pioli told him what players to play or not to play; or who he would go

after or not go after player-wise.

Not at all. With the Chief's he finally got his chance to be God.

Chief Fan from DFW - January 15, 2012 reply

Saw This Coming A Long Time Ago

I have made more than a few posts that Hunt & Pioli seemed to have set up Haley to fail especially because they did not bring in any free agents to compete at QB or OT. Pioli was paranoid & afraid of being overshadowed by Haley & Hunt is jsut a spoiled rich kid. Pioli brought in Weiss to undermine Haley’ s authority. For wonder there were so many rumors at the end of last season that haley would eventually be fired ever after taking the chiefs to the playoffs & improving the play of several players. Haley is fortunate to be out of the dysfunctional organization. It’s going to be intersting to see how the Patriot way works out in Arrowhead if Hunt & Pioli can not find a franchise QB like Tom Brady. Bet Archie manning wold discourage Peyton from signing with the Chiefs. For the HOMERS on this site, this is what an objective blog wrote about the Chiefs:

"When you’re mentally abused, you eventually lose it, too," another former longtime Chiefs executive said.

Their fears about being monitored were founded. The team had capabilities to monitor emails, phone conversations, and web browsing habits. Chiefs president Mark Donovan said in cases of suspected policy breaches or criminal activity, phone logs have been requested.

"I’m not going to say that we’ve never done it, but it’s not something we do," Donovan said. "It’s not how we operate this business."

When employees wanted to speak with each other, they set times to meet outside the building and talk face-to-face.

"I just know that some of our bosses had always told us: Be careful what we did, what we said and where we were at in certain parts of the building," said a former employee who worked in operations before retiring.

Three former staffers have filed lawsuits against the Chiefs for age discrimination. Pioli has gone through three different media relations directors since starting with the team.

So are all the changes and micromanaging styles of Pioli a necessary component for building a winning franchise? Were the concerns of the employees founded? That’s up to you to decide, though many would agree the Chiefs don’t come across as a fun organization to be a part of.

Realist's Take?

Housecleaning is driven by a desire for results AND a culture of control. Sources have legit gripes about the evolution (devolution?) of their Chiefs, but are also dismissed employees with an axe to grind.

Clark’s motivated by success and will run this thing like a machine to get it…for better and worse. Pioli is just part of the new cog.

This ain’t the old Mom and Pop KC Chiefs we all knew and loved, that’s for sure.

go_saleaumua - January 15, 2012 reply

I have to be careful with what I say because I work for a "Big Company"

But I too am careful with what I say in break rooms, always go to my car when I’m on the cell phone, don’t date co-workers, etc.

But damn, it seems like the days of Charles slicing defenses apart and Berry sticking his nose in run support seem so far gone, yet it’s only been a little over a year.

This time last year, the talk was about how the team could take the next step, build off the 2010 success, replace Weis, etc. Now, this offseason is nearly the complete opposite, one that’ll feature more questions than answers.

This story isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon.

The Giants are winning this game.

That Packers game isn't looking as impressive now...

At least the Raiders will hire their entire staff, that is scary.

and if the Giants do win ... 3 of the 4 teams left standing will be those with less than "elite" QBs

Eli is good, not elite … Alex Smith about the same, Joe Flacco even further down the scale, I think

and at least one of those teams WILL be in the Super Bowl … now, can we re-sign Orton and get on with the OLine? ;)

Who is the elite QB left?

Tom Brady? Pssshht… He is below average at best.

You can obviously win in the NFL with Palko.

Sorry Ups, there is a lot of really stupid comments in this thread.

I just thought I would do my best to compete with the insanity.

no way you can touch it, Blinders ... yours was fun satire

a parody of league parity

A Giants/Pats rematch doesnt that far of a fetch now.

My Baltimore/Green Bay prediction back in November officially goes out the window.

I know

Maybe the Raiders will trade away their next 3 1st round picks for Flynn.

ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND

we should send a sympathy card to Acme Packing Company now … stick a fork in’ em, they’re done

Discount double beat down.

Oh and I don't think they would appreciate that much from Chiefs fans...

First we ruin their perfect season and then we send them sympathy after their 2003 Chiefs like exodus from the Playoffs at the hands of Manning V 2.0

No Tebow and now no Rodgers

Thank God the 14 year old girls still have that sex machine Flacco. Makes Brady look like Julio Jones.

+ Fu-manchu

Hah.

THIS ... is why I appreciate good defensive teams

Buchanan, Lanier, Bell … ahhhhh the good old days

I loves me some defense.

Ravens and Giants ... oh how defensively delicious that would be

Ravens 13-10 in OT … Flacco 10 of 22 138 Yds 2 Ints

then maybe, MAYBE … we can stop hearing “only elite QB’s win the SB”

and apparently you have to trade two drafts to acquire them.

only the ones sitll in college

Seems there may still be some use for defense and a running game.

Brees and Rodgers sitting on the couch next week.

go figure, huh!

btu u canot win withuot a ellite Quaarterbackk man in teh moountain

Laay a turd for Griiffin the thiird!
SUck 4 LUck!

or some other nonsensical thoughts

that actually pass as thinking for some people.

I've been one of the employees who stuck and one of the employees who was eased out on the changeover.

Sucks to be on the receiving end, but when I was one who survived a changeover, the new mgr was seen as a real ogre, by some, and a breath of fresh air by others. I think there’s every reason to believe that Peterson’s organization was bloated, inefficient, and ineffective. Coming into a situation like that, the new mgr needs to come up with rubrics for assessing his staff, and then he has to come up with some way of doing the assessment.

It’s surprising at the different ways generals in war and captains of industry gather their information. That guy in sweatpants going through the Safeway dumpster might be a Procter and Gamble executive, checking empty boxes for who made them and where they shipped from, in order to gather intel on who’s stealing his market share on toilet paper, soap, or even the cardboard boxes, themselves!

I can see a candy wrapper looking like a brilliant vehicle to put some of your business school training to work. Pencil-necks are always looking for stupid things like this to be an attention-grabber in another of a sequence of too many meetings on too many topics. I see it every year at work, with our convocations, where execs try to revitalize the organization with a kum-by-ah session. It’s the way they’re taught to manage. Blame the business schools. I’d rather see those mgmt types circulating amongst the troops, planting seeds and getting the sense of their employees, for a lot less investment than a high-dollar motivational speaker, who should be living in a van down by the river.

Guys who come in to change things are viewed with mistrust by the slackers, every time. Sometimes it’s not a slacker, but someone who lacks proper training, or who is inefficient, for whatever reason. Calling someone out for valid reasons is a very nasty situation, where you’re threatening to part a man from a comfortable living, in a job he THINKS he understands, even if he’s 20 years out-of-date, and not eager for job training (and feeling like the job training meetings the mgr keeps holding are a stupid waste of time (which they likely ARE)).

But the candy wrapper thing could just be a good guy making a point about shoddy work, in general, and trying to set a new tone, in a group of people who, whether they even know it or not, have been doing shoddy work. Nine times out of ten, the organization as a whole is better off after the adjustment period, but things can get really ugly during the adjustment period.

The guilty flee when no man pursueth.

I really hope Pioli isn’t the mean-spirited and petty GM he’s being painted as.

hmills110 - January 15, 2012 reply

I'm interested in these upcoming Chiefs hires

and I’m irritated by the timing of Kent Babb’s timing for what Joel calls:

We have an early candidate for story of the year on the Kansas City Chiefs.

Laughable.

It may have no effect on the future. However, why would he write a story that makes the Chiefs organization look like shenanigans before they make some of the most important coaching hires of the next few seasons.

I wish he would have thought about that for a moment before deciding to put out this fine piece of investigative reporting that successfully accomplishes nothing but negativity for this city or the team long term.

Prof…

I really liked what you had to say on this subject, and it is silly that we have to be having this conversation at such pivotal point in the Chiefs development.

Regardless of candy wrappers or disgruntled employees this shouldn’t be the focus of the Kansas City Chiefs community right now. This team needs to build for the future and hire some exciting new candidates. Instead, they are going to be dodging a potential PR nightmare because the Kansas City media is upset that they can’t have the access that they feel entitled to.

Hopefully, this mess will all blow over and Kansas City will still be able to entice some of the best football minds in the NFL to don Chiefs red for the 2012 NFL season.

the sad thing is ... depending on the fallout and how other things ultimately shake out ...

… it actually COULD be The Story Of The Year

Hey ... that was a purty good band out of St. Louie back in 2005 when I moved back to Redneck Nirvana here.

Wonder if they’re still together and making music?

Story Of The Year

The candy wrapper thing

In isolation is I think a good example of what he wants in terms of accountability.

In the context of everything else, it makes him seem like a petty jerk.

What is more bothersome to me than the candy wrapper story (which is at least about accounability) are all the stories about how proud he is for tracking how much they spend on coffee, color ink, etc. If he’s a big penny-pinchers, I think we can forget about the days of bringing in good free agents and instead look at becoming the notoriously cheap late 90s Royals.

RoyalsRetro - January 15, 2012 reply

bingo

the candy wrapper thing, which could have been handled in a more mature manner to be sure, in itself isn’t huge … but add the other crap on top of it and you end up with a pretty ugly picture of the organization as a whole … along with other things we’ve already heard about in the past

The thing we have to remember is that Scott Pioli is a full time employee

With a reputation as being one of the hardest workers around NFL circles.

Just because he is spending time and energy on things like candy wrappers and kitten mittens, doesn’t mean that he isn’t reviewing free agency and scouting for the draft.

Sure, if I had my way, Scott would be only dealing with football problems and hire a full time detail sadist to handle some of these piddly issues. However, I want to hear the stories about how Scott is a good boss too, I am sure they are out there somewhere.

Usually, there are two sides to stories like these and Kent Babb just highlighted the negatives. Nowhere in the story was the tail of the negotiating process where he managed to lock up Jamaal Charles for NFL peanuts.

Losing out on the playoffs has everyone bent out of shape and these potential evil Pioli things stand out now more than ever, while his good qualities are tucked into a corner…

This shouldn’t even be a topic right now… dam KC Star.

oh come on, Blinders

those fluff stories are all too common … how hard Pioli works, how many hours he puts in, yadda yadda yadda … that’s not news, that’s fluff and let’s all pat ourselves on the back talk

today’s bit was NEWS … something real, deep, behind the usual “how great are the Chiefs” fluff stuff … more to the point, it’s a very sobering and disturbing image of the organization … glossing it over and dismissing it offhand is liek saying Matt Cassel isn’t all THAT bad because Tyler Palko is even worse

Hold on

more to the point, it’s a very sobering and disturbing image of the organization

Sorry, I had to vomit for three days… I am back now.

Exactly how is this sobering and disturbing?

The Chiefs are trying to get employees that actually spend their time doing their jobs. I have been in management positions before and people always get bent out of shape when you tell them circle jerk time is over and they actually have to work.

Kent Babb just highlighted those moments. Honestly, I feel bad for those that lose their jobs, but in the past forty two years exactly how many times did they help my favorite team win the Super Bowl?

“0”

Yep, their presence brought zero Super Bowls to the Kansas City Chiefs and I want people in there that bring Super Bowls. This whole piece by Babb was a whining fest of epic proportions… and the only thing disturbing to me about the whole thing was the fact that it was written now when the Chiefs need to make crucial hires.

Marty, Gunther, Dick, Herm, Todd where all fired/resigned/ let go/retired etc… for not producing a winning championship team and other casualties should be made for the same reason.

You want your job Chiefs employees?

Work hard, listen to your boss and produce results… IMO

That may sound harsh but I want people that produce several Super Bowls, not sing we are family at work during another losing season shoveling snow together in the parking lot.

what the hell does a candy wrapper and an aura of paranoia at Arrowhead offices have to do with winning a single game?

the answer: not one damned thing!

this isn’t about coaches or players … it’s about a dysfunctional business environment fostered by the guy at the top … it’s about secretaries and others in relatively low-level (and non-football related) jobs being treated like 5 yo’s and threatened with their livlihoods in a CIA-type Patriots bunker

football has NOTHING to do with this

I can see that side of it too

I really can, but let’s not pretend this is a real issue.

This was a piece designed to create dissension and awareness, and it is working. This was the wrong time for this garbage IMO.

this isn’t about coaches or players … it’s about a dysfunctional business environment fostered by the guy at the top … it’s about secretaries and others in relatively low-level (and non-football related) jobs being treated like 5 yo’s and threatened with their livlihoods in a CIA-type Patriots bunker

That comment was Kent Babb’s target audience and reaction expectation. Congrats!

ok, so for YEARS we've poked fun at Al Davis for doing exactly what Scott Pioli seems to be doing now ...

and you say it’s not a real issue

well done, Blinders … you have it all figured out

or not

Scott Pioli

is putting under sized bandaids on his facial wounds and over paying for the fastest people on the planet?

I don’t see the connection.

I lol'd.

so what happened to the ultimate team today

texans lost no one had a better overall team than them

they got beat by the ultimate elite QB ... Joe Flacco

I hear Baltimore gave up two drafts for him too

yup, the 18th pick that year

If Schaub was playing they would have won hands down

That's ummmpossible

Matt Schaub isn’t a first round pick :)

3 qb's in the final 4 are

Fo sho

but they aren't all "elite"

But you can't get non elite QB's in the first round

Especially if they are hyped like Eli Manning was.

Meh...

enough playing around.

I’m out… have a good night brothers.

Good luck with that Al Davis theory Ups, I have some figuring out to continue. 0:)

2 out of the 4 are

And Flacco is pretty good

Flacco is Orton in a diff uniform

and Eli is not elite, he’s better than he used to be, but he’s not elite

Giants and Ravens win on defense … deal with it

oh, and Alex Smith is far from elite, but his team beat the Saints and Brees … so wow, elite QB’s don’t always win

deal with that, too

saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 16, 2012 reply

huh.... huh ...... hell no

Eli Manning is elite. By that I mean , are you in the top 5 of your profession? We all know the usual suspects at the top 4 …. Brady… Brees … Rogers….Big Ben…. then who? Why the fuck isn’t Eli that next guy? He has a ring , he puts up the numbers. He is an ELITE QB you get over it. And, if you can tell me a better QB at THIS PRESENT TIME , I want to know about it ( BTW , Orton and Stanzi don’t count and your sarcastic response of Andrew Luck doesn’t either) Even if I grant you Alex Smith…. he was the ..yes , say it with me THE NUMBER 1 OVERALL PICK!! in 05

then again a guard is just as important as a qb ....right?

2 number 1 overall QB's are now in the title game

3 to 1 odds a first round QB wins the SB

I think it is Brian Waters year

funny, I thought Brady was the best of the four ...

6th round, wasn’t he?

And 6th round hall of fame Qb's happen every year

You said it better than I did. Thank you for your point of view.

Interesting stuff

One the one hand I don’t mind at all the major overhaul of the front office. It was well known that Lamar was loyal to a fault (ugh, Jack SteadmanGM4evr) and clearing out people that were there since the Super Bowl years was much needed (so long as it was legal and none of this “fire everyone over 40” allegations)

On the other hand I am pretty sick of the “Patriot Way.” The Patriots don’t win because they’re better than everyone else about noticing details or because they keep secrets better. They win because they have Tom Brady and because they’re willing to buck conventional wisdom a lot. All this energy spent on locking down information seems to be a huge waste of time to me. And if you see how completely pants-pulled-down unprepared this team was at times (even during our division title year in 2010), it doesn’t appear to have translated much into success.

I don’t know a ton about business management, but the Goldman Sachs management method sounds pretty outdated. I thought the big thing now was “empowering” employees (er, I mean, “associates”) and fostering collaboration and innovation through growing relationships. I know football is more of a structuralist paradigm and old school, but outside of the military, I don’t see this top-down, my-way-or-the-highway, everything-is-as-important-as-everything-else attitude as being the kind of innovative leadership we need out of our GM.

Well, the good thing about football is that there is a really simple metric to determine success – wins and losses. The early returns are mixed I suppose, but its not a huge success story thus far.

RoyalsRetro - January 15, 2012 reply

nailed it!

I don’t see this top-down, my-way-or-the-highway, everything-is-as-important-as-everything-else attitude as being the kind of innovative leadership we need out of our GM

empowered employees generally work better and harder for an organization than employees in an organization shrouded by an aura of mistrust and secrecy where every tiny thing is under constant scrutiny

Why doesn't Haley talk?

I seem to recall stories about how when he was fired he wanted to “tell his story”, but he hasn’t yet. Is it to come?

RoyalsRetro - January 15, 2012 reply

most likely, as noted way up in the thread, he had to sign a confidentiality agreement

he can’t say anything about the Chiefs and they can’t say anything about him … pretty standard stuff

No, I think the story was that he wanted to QUIT in order to tell his story.

Shanghai_Chiefs - January 15, 2012 reply

Oh snap

this is NOT AT ALL want I wanted when I said we needed some NEW news.

Let’s go back to comparing Orton/Cassel, 1st Rd QB Trade Options, and Bowe/Carr stuff.

This stuff… uh.. had the same shit go down a couple of years ago. Just….ugggh…

Cassel is notoriously tidy around the locker room.

I says he’s back starting next year.

I'm afraid that that is Pioli's plan.

What's everyone's opinion on how aware and supportive Hunt is in all this? And, if this

is somewhat new to him, will he do something about it?

from the pressers...

it seems like he’s real dimwitted with unbelievably pat, uninformative answers to questions. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pioli wears the pants in that relationship only because of comparative brain power.

The article indicates that ....

much of these ideals and policies stem from Clark Hunt’s immersion in the methodologies presented by a Goldman Sachs management program. I would say he is far more involved and supportive of the changes than some would like to believe.

Lamar is probably spinning in his grave

Then he should have raised his kid better, huh?

Any interest from some AP'ers in putting our tax refunds together and buying the team?

I’m getting at least $400, maybe even $500. It was a good year.

heh ... couple more of us and we got it, easy