Chris Trotman - Getty Images
about 1 year ago: NEW YORK, NY - APRIL 28: A taxi drives down the Avenue of the AMericas past Radio City Music Hall during the 2011 NFL Draft at Radio City Music Hall on April 28, 2011 in New York City. (Photo by Chris Trotman/Getty Images)
With the mock draft season descending upon us like vultures on a carcass, it's time to look at the first-round possibilities for the Chiefs. All depending on your taste, you may want an offensive or defensive piece added to the puzzle. The general consensus would say there are a few positions that Kansas City could definitely upgrade. Let's go one-by-one.
David DeCastro is likely the only guard that could be considered this high. Most experts see him going off the board in the early-to-mid first round. It would be a pretty bold move by Scott Pioli to take a guard so far up in the draft.
RIGHT TACKLE: I'm not getting into the whole notion of whether Branden Albert should be moved inside or over to right tackle. If this site had it's way, Albert would be playing defensive back at this point.
Barry Richardson would easily be the weakest link on a healthy Kansas City team next season if all the current starters returned. There's a simple reason for that; he's an atrocity of epic proportions. The Chiefs need to look far and wide for a serious player at the RT spot.
Jonathan Martin and Riley Reiff would be major considerations if Pioli decided to go this route. While a team typically doesn't take a RT so high, do Hunt and co. pull the trigger if they believe that player makes the offensive line elite?
NOSE TACKLE: This position hasn't been talked about nearly as much recently as it was last year around Arrowhead Pride. However, Kelly Gregg clearly isn't a long-term answer and who knows what Jerrell Powe will become.
Glenn Dorsey is a cardboard cutout against the pass but very stout against the run while Tyson Jackson actually played respectably this year. So would drafting a space-eating, pocket-pushing NT take the defense to the next, and highest, level?
Devon Still is a serious prospect that fits the bill for a NT. Still has high grades in both run and pass defense. Also, the youngster comes from Penn State. If he's anything like Kansas City's last Nittany Lion first round pick, everything will turn out just fine.
INSIDE LINEBACKER: This is a very intriguing scenario. If the Chiefs retain Jovan Belcher, do they still make a move for an elite play-maker at that position? It's a happy thought to think of Derrick Johnson paired with another three-down, athletic presence next to him while Justin Houston and Tamba Hali rush the passer. With that said, Belcher isn't bad and certainly there are more pressing needs...did I mention Barry Richardson?
The problem with this idea is a lack of players that fit such a high draft pick. Vontaze Burfict has major upside but seems to be a very controversial player. Dont'a Hightower is slated to go off the board in the second round and frankly looks like a beast. Another facet to consider is Hightower has already been playing on a complex defense for years.
RUNNING BACK: I'm not going to mince words with this one. If Jamaal Charles is healthy, does it really make sense for Kansas City to spend a first round pick on a running back? I understand the whole "thunder and lightning" argument with Richardson as the bigger back, but let me say the following: Thunder scares people, lightning kills them.
QUARTERBACK: I had to save this for last. It's the great debate on here and for good reason. Should the Chiefs sign Orton, keep Cassel or draft someone. Of course, Matt Flynn is also an option via the free agent route.
While it's obvious Kansas City could use a serious change at the quarterback position, I don't know how it happens unless Pioli trades up. Unfortunately that has never been his style.
The Chiefs would likely have to give up multiple high picks to attain Robert Griffin III. Does Pioli feel that's the best move for the organization? None of us know. It would be a popular move without question, but is it the right one? Pioli would have to be sold hook, line and sinker on the kid to make that sort of move like Atlanta did for Julio Jones.
So what do you think? Vote below and state your case.
0 recs | 479 comments
If Dont'a Hightower fell to us in the 2nd
that would be epic.
Chiefs447 - January 19, 2012
I feel like it could happen
He will probably time poorly at the Combine and be labeled a “pure 34 ILB” just like Brandon Spikes was. Look how that turned out for NE…
I am thinking landing Hightower in the early 2nd is a very real possibility and would be absolutely perfect for us.
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
I think it worked out well for NE
and I think he would work out well for us
O.C.ChiefsFan - January 19, 2012
Indeed.
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
a little weed problem to help the cause
maybe pioli will start a rumor
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Dont'a Hightower is a junior..
I don’t believe he is allowed at the combine..BUT his pro-day is different..
cyberry - January 20, 2012
Gabbert went to the Combine as a junior.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
Your right..
I was thinking of the Senior Bowl rules..All seniors and declared underclassman, if they pass NFL and NCAA requirements, are eligible..
cyberry - January 20, 2012
I might wet myself were that to happen
Buh-bye Belcher.
SCKSChief - January 20, 2012
I would have a Chiefsgasm.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
DeCastro / Hightower / RT?
Or maybe somehow sign Nicks for OG
Then RT / Hightower / TE?
TRSChief - January 20, 2012
fantastic
stagdsp - January 20, 2012
Because a parade of Pro Bowl guards before DeCastro got us to Superbowl
retarded
Trade down pick up a 2nd
grab Burfict ILB….I dont care that he had a crappy year….if he isnt the next Ray Lewis ill eat my hat
Take our two 2nds and trade up
grab Mike Adams RT
Then maybe some top safety slips into the 3rd…grab that guy too
oh…and when the Colts cut Manning…..lets send him some hookers and and bottle of 18 year old scotch…and then grab him.
so
1. Burfict ILB
2. Adams RT
3. S
and Payton Manning
there all fixed…we can win a few Superbowl’s now
MasterBlaster7 - January 20, 2012
Isn't Devon Still a 4-3 DT
making him much more of a 3-4 DE? He seems pretty undersized for a NT.
cheapham - January 19, 2012
correct
he’d be a DE here
stagdsp - January 19, 2012 via Android app
Flowers is swaying the vote :)
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
6'5" 310lbs
put some added muscle on in an NFL training facility and he very well could be in the NT rotation.
Sudden - January 19, 2012
Nope, never.
:) Seriously, I think he could be a NT for Wade, but probably not for Romeo.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
I sure would like a Too Tall Jones as my next 3-4 DE
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
He was the prototype, huh?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
lets get a big dan salueamulia type NT
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
350lbs of Vulcanized rubber ball.
Can’t block that.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
big dan even showed some quickness on the line
those were the days, even joe phillips comes to mind
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Sad story Joe was
I wonder how it turned out
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
yeah he got beat up by the hells angels in cal at some bar
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
recently?
I was more talking about losing his family
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
no along time ago
didn’t know what happened with his family.?
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
a link
http://deadspin.com/390416/has-troubled-joe-phillips-resurfaced-online
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
tx
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
unbelieveable shit joe phillips wife did to him
hang in there joe phillips no one needs to go through this kind of BS. Great player, one of the great anchors on the dline in the 90’s.
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Hey too you NT people....
How do we know Powe isnt the heir apparent?
MasterBlaster7 - January 20, 2012
Seems like there might be a few good 3-4 DE prospects in the middle of this draft.
Wolfe, that guy from FSU.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
I agree
I look in the middle rounds and wonder what the Chiefs should grab.
A TE is a given
surely a DB of some flavor
Re-sign Bowe and I doubt we need a WR
Dont’ really need more Line-backers though some want to have 9-10 on the roster
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I like the RB from Tennessee
Poole
stagdsp - January 20, 2012
QB or "Boooooooooooooo"
craig in calgary - January 19, 2012
this
chiefsman! - January 19, 2012
Weeden is an excellent choice
NOTSteve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Negative sarcasm.
I see what you did there.Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
QB or Bust
will lead to Bust IMO
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
How about we just the greatest QB of all time when the Colts cut him.
MasterBlaster7 - January 20, 2012
i like
Inside linebacker the most whether its kueckly or the badass burflict. But I will be happy with decastroI or Reiff . I just don’t think rb or dt is a worthy pick. Speaking our luck with with first round dt haven’t been to impressive.
Brendon - January 19, 2012 via mobile
I could have swore I heard DT's is the position with the most bust potential in round 1?
I dont think potential is the right word, I think DT’s have produced the most busts of all other positions in round 1. Dont quote me on this but, im pretty sure this is fact.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Because I think it is hard for most teams to quantify success at the DT position
Unless they put up good sack numbers, you just assume they are doing a shitty job. In most defenses, sacks really aren’t that great of an indicator.
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
Maybe it is high round Defensive lineman
since in the Not For Long league, they end up on teams that change coaches and schemes before they ever get a chance to develope
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I like how you think Brendon
I think Keuchley is going to be a great ILB….but we already have a Keuchley playing ILB. Go look up DJ’s college stats…I think you will find a lot of similarities.
Where Keuchley is a great ILB….Burfict is a F’ing serial killer. He would change the entire dynamic of or defense. Opposing receivers would be scared chitless to cross the middle. It would give us a more Steelers/Ravens look to our Defense…which we need…abject fear trumps sound technical play.
Reiff…im OK with that move..I stress OK.
DeCastro would be a bad move…He is going to be a great Guard….but we have had a ton of great guards and I dont remeber any of them geting us to superbowl. Pioli’s style of grabbing bang for buck guards works just fine for me.
MasterBlaster7 - January 20, 2012
Redskins talking about Flynn
Could leave miami and us looking for Qb….
chiefsman! - January 19, 2012
But we have Cassel
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
and we could have Orton
I have this issue with grabbing another developemental QB later in the draft.
WHY
we already have that guy in Stanzi.
We need a solid Starting capable guy not TWO guys to develop
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
last year after the draft
Pioli said in an interview that he believes in drafting a qb in the later rounds every year. I wouldn’t be shocked if he did the same this year and drafted another qb in the mid to late rounds.
O.C.ChiefsFan - January 19, 2012
He would be stupid to
developeQB’s when he has no clue how to pick them and develope them.
He has Tom Brady and Matt Cassel in 10+ years of trying
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I agree
I don’t think that he should continue trying it. However, I would not be shocked if Pioli continues to try and find that one in a million qb like Tom Brady. Do I agree? No. It is just a gut feeling.
O.C.ChiefsFan - January 19, 2012
I have no problem with him trying
but it would be nice to see the 1st one before he moves to the 2nd one.
We cycled through every one of his past attempts from New England.
They all sucked
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
haha
This is very true.
There are a few qb’s that will be there late in the draft that I would not mind taking a shot on. Let them go to camp and battle it out with Stanzi and may the best qb win.
And I do believe this has a lot to do with who we get as an O.C.
O.C.ChiefsFan - January 19, 2012
I think we should start Stanzi
Draft to fill all the other needs and see what he has. If he sucks then we shoot for Barkley in next years draft.
CPT.Caveman - January 19, 2012
The Chiefs have a chance to win the division next season. Just saying, “oh well, we’ll get Barkley” isn’t exactly a great consolation prize.
Barkley will be a top 5 pick. If the Chiefs have a top 5 pick next season, Pioli should be fired and so should Romeo.
manofnothi - January 19, 2012
Probably depends heavily on our new OC.
Zorn? Clements?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Zorn is gone isn't he
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
That'd be news to me.
I wasn’t watching the news today, though. Did he leave?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Isn't expected back
would be a better term
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I don't see anything on AP's front page. Was that a story today?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
No not today
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I didn't see anything saying he wouldn't be back
just that he wouldnt’ want, or be in the running for, OC
stagdsp - January 20, 2012
Yeah that's all I saw about Zorn
Nothing about not coming back. Just that he wasn’t really in the discussion for OC.
TRSChief - January 20, 2012
I know the quote you are talking about, and if I'm not mistaken
he said that he believes in aquiring a QB every year. Not necessarily in the draft or late in the draft.
Ray Brown - January 19, 2012
I think it would be a great idea...
to draft Kellan Moore! This BSU product broke records, is accurate as hell, and can extend plays! Looks as if he’d be about the only prospect by the time the Chiefs get to pick…..yeah, I know he’s only 6 ft. tall, but so are some other very talented QB’s in this league. He’s a huge upgrade from Stanzi right off the bat!
KCRiseFromTheAshes - January 19, 2012
Here's what drives me nuts about Moore
He is accurate. He has had success. But he has a complete RAG ARM. It drives me bonkers. He has great feel in the pocket and he knows when guys are breaking open and actually throws them open. He doesn’t miss open guys, period. There are so many things to like about the guy. Truly there are. However, I simply cannot get past that weak arm…or the fact that he looks like John Elway’s love-child. Seriously, the two have to be related; Horseface Jr.
SCKSChief - January 20, 2012
And your point is??????
Kool TA - January 19, 2012
Whom I'd love to trade to Miami
SCKSChief - January 20, 2012
Sounds like we should trade down
The only position in that list worth a pick that high that we can realistically get (so not QB) is Nose Tackle, but I haven’t heard that there is a stud one this year.
I thought Burfict would be worth a mid-first for a while but it sounds like we’ll definitely be able to get him later in the draft.
Wait and See - January 19, 2012
not if baltimore has anything to do about it
Brendon - January 19, 2012 via mobile
Burfict doesn't get past Baltimore
After drafting Lewis and reaping the benefits of a prospect with a questionable character, I bet they’re licking their chops at the idea of Burfict falling to them.
7chiefs7 - January 19, 2012
Baltimore is one of the few teams I could see Burfict succeeding at
Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are strong presences in the locker room, and if they can’t get his guy motivated, no one else can.
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
You don't think he could succeed with us?
I think DJ and Crennel would be very influential and keep him on the right path.
7chiefs7 - January 19, 2012
DJ56 and Berry are good leaders
But not the type I see Burfict responding to.
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
Well I can say
is that I hope we have the opportunity to find out.
7chiefs7 - January 19, 2012
in the 2nd
and if Baltimore passes on him?
Who would be the next team, San Diego in the 2nd round
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I don't think Baltimore passes on him
Lewis is too old and Burfict has too much upside.
My ideal 1st round scenario: trade down to right before Baltimore and take Burfict.
If he goes into the 2nd and is sitting there, I’d be disappointed if Pioli didn’t take him.
7chiefs7 - January 19, 2012
lots of SILB in this draft
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Lots of upside, but doesn't have the production to match it
I think he’s a 2nd rounder, with the potential to drop to the 3rd. Probably a lot depends on the combine interviews.
jmcgoblue - January 19, 2012
prepare to be disappointed
he not only draws penalties right and left, but he plays so out of control that he misses tackles and assignments
as jmcgoblue said, maybe if he’s there in the 3rd round … but personally I’d just pass on the guy
upamtn - January 19, 2012
all I can say*
7chiefs7 - January 19, 2012
I would really like to get vontaz if we could trade back and pick up more picks.
I know some people dont like him but, the kid has talent regardless. He is some what a need also.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
I don't get the whole positional value thing
We took a safety Top 5.
If you think a guy is going to be an All-Pro at a position of need — you draft him. Which is why we will be selecting David DeCastro.
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
We would
Pioli migh not, His whole plan was to get ZBS going so we did not need the premier Offensive Lineman in the 1st.
I saw that the Houston Center might have difficulty finding a new team cause he is a fit only in the ZBS scheme, just sayin
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Chris Meyers?
That wouldn’t be a bad pick-up. Is he a free agent? If both Hudson and Asamoah start, then it would help to have a veteran presence on the inside.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Yep
amd then we could go Whole hog on RT in the 2nd round
if we don’t get someone like Demetrius Bell or Rob ? Heyer from Oakland to play that RT spot
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I like this plan.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Safety high fits MY positional value definition.
Especially when he has the potential to be an elite cover guy. Puts him right up there with corners, where I’d go richer than ’most anybody, here.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
Once-a-decade guys,
like I thought Berry to be, bust that positional value. That’s why I wouldn’t be totally against Richardson or DeCastro if I was convinced that they had that personality to go with the talent. But I’m not convinced.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
"positional value" is BS
as long as it’s not a Punter, Kicker, Long Snapper, and they are likely to be a quality starter at a position of need… and they won’t be there the next time your team picks…
take em
stagdsp - January 20, 2012
Agreed.
I first signed on to AP to follow draft news before the 2010 draft. For some reason, there were a lot of positional value proponents here at that time. ‘Bout drove me nuts. I was so relieved when that argument wasn’t as common last year.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
How about these apples
Trade down to the late 20’s, get a 3rd or something (Maybe to a team who wants the ’Bama RB) and take Foles.
Use the 2nd to grab the lunatic from Arizona State and then use both 3rds on Olinemen.
You’re welcome Scott
craig in calgary - January 19, 2012
What about
trading down to the early 20s (before Batlimore) and taking the lunatic and then Foles with the second pick?
I don’t think the lunatic falls past Baltimore.
7chiefs7 - January 19, 2012
If Foles is "the guy", then don't piss around
I don’t see the 3rd best QB in the draft making it to the 3rd round.
Then again if he isn’t “the guy” then don’t take him at all.
craig in calgary - January 19, 2012
What about our 2nd round pick?
That’s what I initially said. Any chance he’s still around then? I don’t follow college ball, but all the gradings I’ve seen have Tannehill as the 3rd best QB.
But I do agree. If the management crew at Arrowhead think Foles is the guy, then get him as fast as possible. If not, then don’t waste a pick.
7chiefs7 - January 19, 2012
Oh, that's what I meant, 2nd round pick.
I much rather have Foles than Tannehill. In fact if it isn’t Luck, RGIII or Foles, I don’t want any other scrub.
Except for my boy Russel Wilson, but that’s more of a late round “who else are we gonna pick” type flier.
craig in calgary - January 19, 2012
I don't see Foles as the GUY
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Me either
I’d rather roll the dice on Russell Wilson or Brandon Weeden.
SCKSChief - January 20, 2012
We could save our powder for the 2013 draft and get a good one
and then we got some ugly dog we picked this year to dump.
We need a starting caliber QB on this team not a project
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
We don't seem to have the coaching to develop a project
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
If Pioli was prescient
He should have fired Haley after our play-off loss and Signed Harbaugh.
CRAP
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
30 other GMs are kicking themselves right now.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Don't kid yourself
49ers are a very talented team, they were supposed to run away with the NFCW last year but were derailed by possibly the worst NFL coach in the past decade. Harbaugh is a good coach, no doubt, but I wouldn’t say he’s one of the best (yet).
jmcgoblue - January 19, 2012
good summary of QB rankings
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/1/17/2712674/ranking-the-2012-draft-prospects-by-position-quarterbacks
SagehenMacGyver47 - January 20, 2012
There is only 1 guy
AL1
saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 19, 2012
how about trade down
Draft vontez. Get two second rounders. Draft zabre saunders. Then take a tight end like eiffort. ?
Brendon - January 19, 2012 via mobile
Or draft DeCastro in the 1st, Hightower in the 2nd
And don’t draft any lunatics.
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
That doesn't pass my criteria to not get boo'd
craig in calgary - January 19, 2012
What are your criteria?
Or is it just a single criterion: don’t get booed?
Nick Britt - January 19, 2012
Address the QB situation.
craig in calgary - January 19, 2012
That doesn't seem to be in the cards
Luck is out, leaving RGIII. Won’t be able to get him unless we sell the farm for years to come. Big risk.
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
Big risk, but it would be significant for those that want to win NOW!
I think Pioli could conjur RG3 for two firsts and Bowe.
Count me in.
Chiefs_swagger - January 19, 2012
RGIII would flounder behind our bad Oline
count me out
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
Our O-line can get better later on in the draft or via FA.
Our QB situation cannot.
Orton may leave and that puts us back to Cassel. I just don’t want to see this happen.
Chiefs_swagger - January 19, 2012
I honestly don't believe...
that you can instantly win with RG3 starting in his first year. If we want the division next year, Cassel will be a better choice than RG3.
supersoccersteven - January 19, 2012
A QB capable of extending a play with his feet would flounder?
I’m not picking up your logic.
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
Yup
He’d be a rookie learning a system, running for his life behind a porous Oline. That’s no way to learn a position. It hppened in Houston with what’s-his-name. Promising rookie, but no Oline help, and he floundered. Set Houston back for YEARS.
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
Oh, nd not much run game support, to boot.
Fix the line first, then get the promising QB, rather than se3ll the farm on the promising QB, and scramble for years trying to patch together an Oline to protect him while he’s learning.
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
David Carr I believe is the guy you're thinking of
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Hmm...
But would our OL be porous if we signed Nicks or Grubbs in FA and drafted a 2nd or 3rd round RT?
That, with Charles back, and I think we have the pieces in place to play with a rookie QB if we think his talent warrants that. RG3 does.
Of course, you could draft him, and just make him beat out Cassel. If it doesn’t happen week 1 (I think it would) then I’m guessing it would by midseason.
kcsno56 - January 20, 2012
Our bad line will look a lot better with Weigs gone & Charles in the backfield
jmcgoblue - January 19, 2012
unleash mims
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
maybe ...
upamtn - January 19, 2012
aren't u tired of holding#67
okay for depth that it
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
He's a rookie quarterback! When rookie quarterbacks have GREAT seasons it means they play about on the level of an average veteran quarterback (i.e., Orton type).
The only exceptions are otherwordly prospects like Peyton Manning. Griffin is not that exception. He might be great, but he is not a “Win Now” option. Get that out of your mind.
sea_people - January 19, 2012
Manning had a pretty poor first season, too.....
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
I suspect it won't be addressed this year (dammit).
But just maybe Pioli will be able to get another 1st round pick in his pocket for next year and trade both our first round picks to move up and take the best QB available. Word seems to be that next year will have a very strong QB contingent to choose from.
midcalchief - January 19, 2012
Yes, next year will have James Vandenberg.
sea_people - January 19, 2012
Please stop.
Helmets - January 20, 2012
I like what little I've seen of Foles.
I like Hightower more than Burfict.
Some good-looking OTs/possible guards slated for the 3rd…Massie, Mosley.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Foles is a stronger armed Cassel
Foles gets flustered in the pocket, struggles with accuracy, and is inconsistent with his decision making. I want nothing to do with him
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
i dont like this QB class.
luck and RGIII wont be there, had barkley just came out this year odds are we get barkley are RGIII, every guy not named RGIII or luck that has the size kind of sucks, every QB not named RGIII or luck that has the skill doesnt fit the size.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Agreed, if we can't get Luck or RG3 then I wouldn't want to draft a QB before the fifth round.
I was just trying to make Craig feel better about his mock.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
by craig: Trading down to the late 20s BETTER garner more than just an extra 3rd.
More like a 2nd and a 4th or a pair of 3rds, or some such, but most likely a 2nd-PLUS. For a sense of where things fall, Cleveland’s 22nd pick plus their 37th pick add up to our 11th pick, give or take. A week ago I figured out who made a small profit, but I’ve since forgotten. My figures were based on Walter’s value chart, which is based on Jimmy Johnson’s, according to the scholars here, on AP.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
Chiefs 1200 or 1250 depending on pick 11-12
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Like I said in the last post...
DeCastro is my pick in that spot, granted we might be able to move back a little and still get him but I wouldn’t chance it. I would really like Carl Nicks as our big FA splash this year so we can do something else with that pick though. Personally I would be all for the T-Rich pickup. That might end up being the greatest tandem ever. You could then get a second round RT and the offense would be pretty much set, with maybe a mid-round TE for good measure. You could then go defense the rest of the draft. Of course all this is assuming we resign Carr and don’t need to spend a high pick on a CB. And if we let Bowe go I hope we at least tag and get a couple high pick for him. Then I really wouldn’t mind the T-Rich pick. But who the hell knows…. not I.
EricBerryYoYouScary - January 19, 2012
Agreed
PKJW - January 19, 2012
Well, I believe we should be moving Albert back to his natural position
at Quarterback. We need new blood there. Cassel is not getting it done.
NJChieffan16 - January 19, 2012
But then he'd be pulling double duty
as place kicker…the position he was born to play.
cheapham - January 19, 2012
I dunno...
if we lose Carr I would like to try him on the outside. We all know Arenas is better suited for the nickel corner.
EricBerryYoYouScary - January 19, 2012
I thought,,,
Arenas was suited to fill in for Albert at LT
supersoccersteven - January 19, 2012
.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Drunken Worf gets a rec
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Are you sure he's not drinking prune juice?
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
Prune juice always makes me laugh.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
It's a warrior's drink!
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
a regular Worf
is a happy Worf.
TDubb - January 20, 2012
If we added OG Grubbs in Free Agency who would be the pick for people wanting Decastro?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Mine might go to Peter Konz Center Wisconsin
Martin is a LT, so I guess Adams from Ohio State for RT on a trade down
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
It'd really open things up, thunderlips.
To me, it’d depend on who slid to #11 and who, if anyone, will be our trading partner.
With the trade-down, DL starts looking a lot better in the 1st. Depending on the partner, they might get a 2nd-round pick high enough to snatch Chase Minnifield. But I’m not too particular about the position, as long as that 1st-rounder is instant starter, instant upgrade, short learning curve, celestial floor.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
im a fan of minnifield myself.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Your criteria leaves out first round QBs and D linemen.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Almost certainly QB, but jury's out on DL.
No NT-only guys I really like in the 1st, but I think they could get a lot of use out of a dominant 3-4 DE, like Still, or a couple others, depending on how they grade out. My knowledge is very limited, but it seems like there are a couple NFL-ready 3-4 DE types. That’s the thing about Martin and Reiff. I’m just not sure they’re NFL-ready. I like the 6’5’’ kinds of DEs, and there are a couple who already play like 3-4 DEs, and are physically dominant, by their TFLs. You don’t expect those same TFLs, but they tell you the guy’s doing a lot of his fighting on the other guys’ side of the line, which means he’s more likely to play with major league stout at the next level.
Nothing against Dorsey, but another guy along Tyson Jackson’s lines, and maybe we don’t care about the standard definition of NT, and maybe that base DL stays in there, with an Amon Gordon at swing, with Bailey and/or Gilberry thrown in for some of the more clearcut passing situations, extending that 4-man rotation to 5 or 6, on a situational basis.
It’d be
nicegreat to just swap out the SILB for a DB as your first step towards nickel and dime, and keeping that base 3-tackle front. One more guy who can actually crush pocket, and maybe 6th-rounder Powe is only coming in for the jumbo sets, and the Chiefs are running this generic 3-man front most all day long. Generic in the sense that the NT is just the one of the 3 that happens to be lined up in the middle.hmills110 - January 19, 2012
About one second after Romeo's dead and buried, he will roll over in his grave
retroactively because of this description of his defense…..might work for Wade, though.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
The whole QB sitch makes me sad in the pants
but I really don’t see a great way out of it. Sigh
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
I remember a Prayer
Lord help me to accept those things that are…..
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I know that one
but in cases like this the short version works just as good.
“Fuck it!”
It is what it is I suppose.
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
It is sorta the "obstacle" I try to work around
while thinking about the 2012 Chiefs :)
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I still have a bit of a kung fu death grip on it myself
Hard to let this one go.
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
Well, I would not tell anyone if you flew into KC and did a little Wet Work
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Muahahaha!
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
Heh. I remember those GI Joe commercials. Bought in, big-time.
Then I finally got my GI Joe with the gear locker. Soon as I got the GI Joe, it dawned on me: This is a fuckin’ doll! Within about a week, the doll was at the bottom of the closet, and I was using the box for mementos. Still have the box. Has an old wallet a distant relative made by hand, my brother’s lighter, which worked for a whole year after he died (cricket), a little can of spray paint, part of a wooden chess set…
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
Shees Mills
did you think he was a foot tall voodoo living thing?
I had fun with GI Joe dating Barbie and kicking Ken’s ASS
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
GI Joe
The reason Barbie’s house has a back door.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
I had about 300 GI joes.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Ha!
After I had that same realization, I stuffed firecrackers down its neck.
Yeah, I was a pretty terrible kid.
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
Interesting
Pipe bombs?
My Dad sold Chemicals and we had a basement full of Samples
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Yup. The role-playing stuff just always seemed dumb, to me.
Lack of imagination. Not in touch with my feminine side. Something like that. If I’m playin’ army as a kid, I’m out climbin’ over rocks and buildin’ forts.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
"Ska-Dooshe!"...
KCChef - January 20, 2012
If it helps
Alex Smith and Joe Flacco might be playing against each other in the Super Bowl
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Both high picks.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Both have top 4 Defenses
kcsno56 - January 20, 2012
Yeah, balance is key.
Pitt and Houston have the two “best” defenses. Didn’t looks so great without healthy QBs, though.
Jets have the #5 defense on NFL.com.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
You know something
That is a good point :)
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
We have no idea with Haley/Muir gone
if Jared Gaither won’t be back
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Would not be surprised if SD cuts him when they get their starter back.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
gaither is a free agent this year
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
That would move Albert to the right side
then DeCastro or Konz and re-sign Barry who is suprisingly one of the better FA Tackles available and we got an offensive line with Depth and talent.
:)
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
what do u do with mims
replace b rich with mims
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Well Mims can be Mims
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
mims need to see action
we all know what we got with b.rich
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Back to the practice squad!
Doh!
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
no the dude ready got to see what we got in mims
like vermeil said to LJ its time to take the diapers offf LJ
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Yeah, I guess I meant decline to re-sign.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
trade cassel asap
sign orton and draft RG3 or get peyton manning
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
You know what?
If the O-Line had done a better job early in the season, Cassel would’ve had the best season of his career. Cassel isn’t another Bradey, Marino, Rogers, or whoever you dream about at night, but he’s better than servicable – he’s capable, and that’s enough for now. Orton makes me think a bit, but he may be just another Cassel. If RG3 is around at 11…, yeah, grab him. But he’ll still have to play behind that O-Line. If you put Tom Bradey in the Chiefs backfield, he gets sacked 4 times a game and has a QBR of about 70. You people have to look a little deeper, and quit crying about how bad our QB is. ANYONE will be bad behind that O-line.
David Winton - January 19, 2012
Orton is the 6-Million dollar upgraded Cassel
He Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees better
and he Throoooooooooooooooooooooooows Better
and he thinks quiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicker
than the original
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Funny
David Winton - January 19, 2012
I dunno. Some highs, there, but also missed an uncovered Baldwin in the EZ, and threw the pick,
tryinig to force the ball into a tight space over the middle. Orton’s not end-all, be-all, but MAN what a difference in the screen game. Orton DOES understand what opposing defenses are doing, generally, but he definitely got fooled by pre-snap alignment, just looking for the cheap single-covered guy off that, when the D played something other than what they showed pre-snap. Both defenders in the double-coverage on Baldwin stood like statues at the line, and Orton never looked their way, even though he had time.
And what might Cassel show, if he wasn’t tied to Haley’s idea of what ought to be done? Cassel’s looked his best in the hurry-up, when he had more say in the play.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
He also was dealing with what his own side of the line of scrimmage was doing
I think with 5 months of having his own team he would do a tad better
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I think Orton would be solid on a solid team.
I’d still be on the lookout for a younger pair of legs, because even though I don’t like to base an offense on my QB running, the better QBs can and do take what’s given on the ground, when the D is playin’ soft. You want those LBs to feel obliged to come up when you’re rolling or bootlegging, and then there’s this big soft area in the zone underneath the safeties. But if you are NO threat to scramble, you’re going to leave a lot of plays on the field. Much as I liked Trent Green, he was very much susceptible to this, especially after the knee injury and a few concussions.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
Or you could just judge what he's done in his career up until now
kcsno56 - January 20, 2012
When you get down to it,
QBs are only as good as their last 20 plays… and press coverage.
David Winton - January 19, 2012
NObody press covers like Flowers/Carr press covers.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Brady would make Richardson All-Pro at RT
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
No...even Bradey can't do that!
David Winton - January 19, 2012
The point here
is that your notion that Brady would have Cassel numbers on the same team is garbage.
They played on the same team, remember? Cassel got sacked twice as much as Brady behind the same line and missed the playoffs with a team that was a miracle helmet catch away from 19-0 the season before with Brady.
bamachief5558 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
Bernard Pollard got to Tom Brady, for Pete's sake.
Yes, that team almost had the perfect season, but they were showing holes on the OL, at least to MY eye. The 2011 Packers reminded me a lot of that New England team, only New England played better defense in ‘07. The Giants finally exploited that OL vulnerability in the SuperBowl, and Cassel basically put in a year during the OL re-load and re-training. I’m not saying Brady’s not the current best pure pocket passer in the league, because he clearly is. But he gets a LOT of clean pocket a LOT of the time, and that was breaking down in the ‘07 season, despite the almost-perfect record. There wasn’t much clean pocket in ’08, when Cassel made use of good weapons and a willingness to run the QB draw up the gut.
But I think Brady would’ve been injured behind that ’08 OL. Wait. As a matter of fact, he DID get injured, and in the very first game of the season, against THE WORST pass-rushing defense in the league. So yes, Cassel DID play on EXACTLY the same team as Brady, and he won 11 games, including the first, against us Chiefs, and Brady won zero.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
it was also pretty much a freak injury ... Pollard got hit by a Pats lineman and got rolled into Brady's leg
upamtn - January 19, 2012
The Pats had the same five starting O linemen from '07 - '09.
Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, and Kaczur.
The difference from ’07 to ’08 was that RG Neal was replaced by Hochstein in ’07 and Yates in ’08 when he got injured.
In ‘09, the LT Light was replaced by the rookie Vollmer after injury. Brady took 16 sacks that year compared to 47 by Cassel the year before. I sincerely doubt that’s because the rookie did a hugely better job than Light.
Yes, the Pats O line does show holes. They always have since Hoodie showed up. Brady covers those holes.
Brady did ridiculously better than Cassel behind the exact same or worse O line. I don’t even know why we’ve got to look up numbers and compare them out loud….
2007 NE Roster
2008 NE Roster
2009 NE Roster
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
yeah a agree with u on the oline thing but
I’ve seen way to much of cassel, and when he does have decent time he makes huge mistakes with the ball. My biggest bitch with cassel is that he doesn’t see the field like he should, he locks onto one wr to much.
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
He doesnt even try, he snaps the ball and looks at one guy the whole time.
when that one guy is not open, he is screwed and holds the ball to long. the guy sucks and has a slow release also.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Who???
Until this year, he only had one WR! Baldwin just barley started showing up when Cassel got hurt.
David Winton - January 19, 2012
Yeah. Cassel has a lot of un-learning to do, after a succession of OC's trying to maximize a pitiful offense's chances.
And Cassel’s looked pretty good against 2nd-tier pass rush. Against the better defenses, though, he has zero confidence in his blind side being covered. There’s no sense of rhythm. And he usually has more directions from which the threats are coming, than Brady typically has.
I see the same things niageriannit1 sees, but after years of watching the game, I tend to discount for the situation in which a QB is playing. I’m not sure how consistent Cassel will be, if he gets to play behind a better line. I know that he’s played with a very early alarm clock and very little confidence in his guys getting open. Hard to say what an extra tick of the clock on a regular basis will do for his game.
The reason I say this is because I’ve seen very good QBs over the years struggling with real fundamental stuff, because they can’t play sound and still be successful behind a crap O-Line, for instance. Having the confidence to take a chance and look to the 3rd or 4th guy depends to a great extent on not getting your ass handed to you when you take that extra tick of the clock. You stare down the one guy, because maybe he’s the only one you
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
But you already said it
Cassel is at his best when he has to hurry, good plays with good players would help, but he has no idea when and how to free-lance and win the game.
Alex Smith did vs New Orleans, twice and that is what a 1st round QB with a good coach can do
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
As hurried as Smith was, I also see a lot of young talent on OL, with a piss-poor year of working-in behind them.
Doesn’t mean I believe Cassel will ever be elite. But I think he can win most or all of the games his OL wins. And until I see the OL win a higher percentage, I’m hesitant to really chase franchise QB. FA and Stanzi-type picks, until they get their shit together, and then, if Stanzi or FA or other draftee don’t get the bit in their teeth, I’m on the QB bandwagon with everybody else.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
Cassel did play behind Brady's O line for a year. You can directly compare their stats.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
didnt he get sacked a ton then also?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
I sure hope we get a QB who takes us to the Super Bowl...
and wins… twice!
Then maybe you guys can find something else to complain about.
David Winton - January 19, 2012
Yep
We won’t complain about two Super Bowl Wins
I would love Pee Wee Hermann if he did it
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Cassel was sacked 47 times the season he started in NE.
Brady’s highest sack total was 41, the first season he started. Since then, his highest sack total was 32.
The two seasons sandwiching Cassel’s 47-sack season in NE, Brady had 21 and 16. Quite a difference.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
gee, you don't suppose that says something about how long Cassel holds the ball, do you?
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Yeah, but of course it's WHY he holds the ball in the first place that has me worried.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
90% of the game is half mental :-)
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Knowing is half the battle,
as Mills would say if he hadn’t wasted his GI Joe.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Had to get me that helicopter.
Then I realized it didn’t actually FLY. I had to run around pushing a button to make the rotors twirl. That lasted about 5 minutes, when my attention turned to the packaging materials. Would’ve gotten more use out of a pocketknife or a fishin’ pole.
Funny how we compare Brady as a veteran to Cassel in his first season as a starter. Apples ‘n’ oranges galore.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
cassell has been in the league a long time though?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Brady's first season he took 41 sacks. 13% less.
It’s hard to get apples to apples with a 16-game NFL season and 13% yearly roster turnover just from drafted players.
I had a Star Wars toy, Boba Fett’s Slave I, that was described as having “gravity operated” wings. I figured I’d bought myself a mad scientist experiment and I was about to control gravity. Dammit. Still was a damn good toy, though.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
my favorite was a model of a 1932-J Duesenberg
this color, too … damn I’d love one!
upamtn - January 19, 2012
oh hell yeah
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Duesenbergs!
Was one of those in a James Bond movie or something? I remember asking my dad about one when I was reeeeally young, because of the funny shape. That was my first moment of curiosity and learning about how cars work.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
the movie goldfinger
james bond
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Also, it's where the term "doozy" came from
More accurately spelled “Duesey”
TDubb - January 20, 2012
According to NFL.com In 2009..
Two starting NFL QB’s took 50 sacks each, Cassel took 42. In 2010 Cassel took 26 sacks, the other two QB’s took 32 and 31 sacks respectively.
In 2011 the two QB’s took 40 and 36. Cassel would be on pace to have taken 37 in 15 games (the same number these two played) if we use his average for the 2011 season.
The other starting QB’s here are Rodgers and Roethlisberger. Is Matt Cassel a great QB? No, but using sack totals is not a convincing argument for me.
Rocky Mountain Chiefs Fan - January 19, 2012
I was using sack totals between two QBs with THE SAME O-LINE!
You are comparing the Chiefs with the Packers and Steelers! Not a great way to compare….
That does kinda help make my point, though :) The Packers and Steelers each have/had extremely suspect lines with QBs that are capable of making plays on their own – and they are both good/great offenses.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
???
Did I miss something? Unless I misread your comments, you were criticizing Cassel for taking 47 sacks in a single season.
I pointed out that other starting QB’s, super bowl winning QB’s, have taken as many sacks or more than Cassel, and stated that sack totals aren’t a good argument against a QB.
Rocky Mountain Chiefs Fan - January 19, 2012
Yeah, it was a looooong sub-thread....
It started with David Winton saying that Brady wouldn’t do well behind the Chiefs’ line. So I talked about how Cassel did behind NE’s line.
It wasn’t really a discussion of whether Cassel is good or bad, more whether the O line makes the QB or vice versa. I conclude that the QB has a whole helluva lot to do with number of sacks taken since Cassel took more than twice as many sacks as Brady behind the same starting five O linemen.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
Oh ok....
that’s a completely different story then. Brady, is miles ahead better than Cassel in taking sacks and I definitely agree that he would not take as many as Cassel has if he were on the Chiefs.
Sorry for misreading your comments.
Rocky Mountain Chiefs Fan - January 20, 2012
No problem. It was a weird discussion.
I have no idea how we went so many comments discussing whether a Brady-for-Cassel substitution would make a difference….we must be a lot of really bored people.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
Cassel played behind the O-Line that failed against the Giants' front 4 in the biggest game of the year.
RT, in particular, was a sore spot in ‘07-’08.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
Keep reading. See how Brady did behind that O line.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
I think he's aware of that one
upamtn - January 19, 2012
I don't think NE has had a really top tier O line since Hoodie's been there.
But then, my idea of top tier is probably skewed by our own early 2000s teams.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
I really didn't want to get sucked in to defending Cassel.
Because I’m not really satisfied with his level of play. But I can see important team-build being abandoned RIGHT when it’s about to start paying off, if the Chiefs are distracted by QBs, and follow the Minnesota-Washington-Chicago path. Let’s create a good situation for the QB and then get hard-core about the QB position.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
thank you!
upamtn - January 19, 2012
My basic problem with that is QB's take awhile to develop.
Even longer than offensive tackles. Say we get a young guard and RT this year, wait two years to be absolutely sure they they are THE ones, and then draft a QB. Three or four years later when that QB is really hitting his stride, where will Albert be?
No, great O lines have a shorter life span than QBs just because you are trying to keep FIVE really good guys together all at once. How long did our great line last? Waiting to start your QB’s development would be like cooking all the vegetables first and putting the turkey in the oven last.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
behind a crappy Oline he won't develop at all
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
this ^^^
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Yeah, Brsrkr. And the quickest way to develop a promising rookie QB is in the best sitch possible.
I think it’s very telling that more folks see this team as being one QB away from being competitive. It says they’re getting closer. But anyone who watched the Chiefs the last x years, pretty much knows that they’ve been deficient on OL for years.
And I’m one with so MUCH respect for the QB position, that I want the guy to come into a great situation. Besides, you’d be surprised at how many QBs you can turn up, when you have a great situation. Makes it easier to go 2- or 3-deep at the position, too, because the next man up can pretty much execute the game plan, with a few tweaks reflecting his unique skill set.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
2- or 3-deep....we've already got Stanzi insurance/trade bait.
Like Rodgers/Flynn, Vick/Kolb, Brady/Cassel. We’re missing the first part of those pairings.
A new QB shouldn’t develop behind any line at all in my opinion. He should sit and learn the NFL for a year. ESPECIALLY if he’s an RG3 type who comes from a distinctly college type system.
What I see is people chasing a ghost, trying to make a perfect team with just one hole at QB. Ridiculous. Or, re-create our 2003 O line. That will probably NEVER EVER happen. And if it does, like I said before, how long will it hold together? Four years if we’re really lucky?
How good do you want to make the O line before you go after a player who can actually touch the football? Will we ever be satisfied that the O line is good enough to take that leap? And if we’ve got a Cassel type taking 47 sacks behind an O line that only gave up 16 for Brady, how will we KNOW when our O line is ready?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Preech!
chief913-816 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
OK
QB – It’s a shame that we don’t have a shot at a top-flight QB in the 1st round… No, you don’t trade away your future to move up.
OT – You don’t draft a RT in the 1st round – unless it’s the only spot you need to fill. Maybe if you want to move your current LT inside, or to the other side. Moving Albert inside wouldn’t be a bad move, but then you still have a hole on the right side.
ILB – uh… No!
RB – Maybe, if he’s REAL GOOD. I don’t think Trent Richardson is. He’s OK at about pick 20, not pick 11. Look in later rounds for a guy like Wilson, or Pead, etc.
GUARD – Yes!!! I say, if DeCastro is there, you have to grab him. He’s probably the best guard prospect to enter the draft in 10 years. You can get your starting RT in the 2nd round, and your backup RB in the 3rd.
David Winton - January 19, 2012
Trent Richardson isn't lasting until pick 20, a good combine solidifies his spot somewhere in the top ten with a chance of falling to the top 15 as far as I see it
He’s the next Maurice Jones-Drew in my opinion. The only thing different is that MJD might be a little faster.
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Maurice Jones-Drew was selected in the 2nd round bub!
The 28th pick in the 2nd round… hell, almost the 3rd round.
Yeah, selecting a guard that high is risky, but not like it used to be (rookie cap). But RB isn’t real popular that high either. I would rather grab a guard in the 2nd, but the talent after DeCastro drops off big-time.
David Winton - January 19, 2012
We don't need a guard anyway Lilja I can live with Lilja.
I would rather switch him to RG and put Asamoah at LG, just to see if Lilja can play at as high a level he did in 2010, than draft a guard in the first to replace him.
And I was giving a player comparison, draft position doesn’t matter.
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I hated Lilja, I liked richardson better than Lilja.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Richardson as in Barry Richardson?
The guy was the worst tackle in the NFL.
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
im comparing two people that sucked, richardson would suck less in my opinion. lol
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
thats why mims will be the starter this season
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Good point!
David Winton - January 19, 2012
Lilja is better than he played this year,
but he’s getting a little long-in-the-tooth. Not as old as CW, but he’s not as good as CW either. I would look long at OT in the 1st – just to build the best line we can, but I think there’s still a need in the middle. Maybe Hudson moves to guard and we get a Centerin the later rounds.
David Winton - January 19, 2012
if hudson moves to G I want Konz playing C.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Yep!
David Winton - January 19, 2012
...but do you grab Konz in the 1st?
He may not be around by the second pick.
David Winton - January 19, 2012
yea just not at 11/12 hopefully around 17 and later.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
yup
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
same with decastro though.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
if we don't take him at 11/12, the Cowboys will at 14
assuming he doesn’t go earlier, and he just might
upamtn - January 19, 2012
why wouldnt the cowboys take a CB?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
they might
but more than a couple of mocks have them taking DeCastro after we take Martin
I don’t like that idea at all
upamtn - January 19, 2012
BUT, if Kirkpatrick falls to them it's a much tougher choice
jmcgoblue - January 19, 2012
Yes. If Dre's there, still, at #11, Decastro isn't a sure thing, at least not to me.
I like quite a few of those 2nd- and 3rd-round RTs and OC/OGs.
Also, Kirkpatrick slipping to #11 opens the door to more trades.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
have you seen the Cowboys secondary?
They are going corner all the way
saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 20, 2012
you dont draft a G that high!
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Exactly
Ask the Eagles’s fans how they’re guard was doing this season. They were calling him a bust halfway through the season.
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
The kid from baylor that was old coming out of college?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Yeah
Danny Watkins
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I was reading a scouting report and from the RG position
De Castro always pulled to the Left Side.
I do not know if he needs to stay on the Right side for best effect but it might be a possibility when you write his name in on the Chiefs depth chart.
Jon Asamoah would have to slide to Left Guard
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Then you are downgrading two positions
Putting in players at two positions they have never played in the pros, as well as a new center? Terrible
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
yup, just terrible ... this guy for instance, switched positions from college to pros
the above is what he did at the University of North Texas … he then bombed in his first tryout, but eventually caught on with another team on the OLine … maybe you’ve heard of him?
guy named Waters … Brian Waters
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Exactly, so why take an OG in the 1st when you can get pro-bowlers as UFAs?
That WAS your point, right ups? ;)
jmcgoblue - January 19, 2012
ha!
upamtn - January 19, 2012
QB or trade out.
Or CB if Carr leaves.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Josh Norman
Is a CB I would like to see the chiefs pick up if Carr leaves. He is projected in the 3rd round and reminds me of Carr. He is 6-1 and around 210. After seeing him perform in the east/west shrine game practices I was highly impressed. He was doing well in man coverage as well as zone. He looked fast as he was returning a pick six too :)
O.C.ChiefsFan - January 19, 2012
Okay I give up
Draft that Winner from Boise State at QB at pick 11.
QB it is
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Ha Ha I really like kellen moore that would be a sweet late round pick.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
I like him as a 13th pick ........in the 7th round haha
O.C.ChiefsFan - January 19, 2012
11th my bad
O.C.ChiefsFan - January 19, 2012
works for me.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Giving up = trading out.
Much better than drafting Boise. Except for this Boise:
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Those Bears had Mothers.....
and now Craig is gone
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I'm an Arizona alum and known Pac10 homer and even I'll say....
Foles is not the answer. Trade down, trade down again, trade down again, all for 2013 picks. Take whatever Olineman you can get and put yourself in a position to move up for Barkley.
HIV 2 Elway - January 19, 2012
Ha!
Appreciate the candor HIV
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
H2E has expressed this sentiment every time Foles comes up
I would have with Gabbert
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
And I would have appreciated that too!
Buck'O - January 19, 2012
Agreed.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Thank you Thank you Thank you.
If there aren’t value picks at 11/12, cash it in for the 2013 QB frenzy.
Numba42 - January 19, 2012 via Android app
Barkley would have been the 3rd best qb
In this draft had he come out..
chief913-816 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
Hell no to a first round runningback!
Build the o-line and then any rb would be a stud. My vote is for o-line, then a dt to clog up the middle so Tamba, and Justin can do their thing! Everything begins in the trenches.
Eric Allen - January 19, 2012 via mobile
I could live with that
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
If Trent Richardson falls grab him at 11.
If no Trent Richrdson trade back for more picks. Absolutely against drafting an offensive lineman in the first round.
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Even if high picks on o-line
means having an o-line like we had in the early 2000s? If we had the defense we have now mixed with that offense, superbowl bound easy.
Eric Allen - January 19, 2012 via mobile
There's no one in this draft that will give us that type of dominance
The only way the Chiefs’s offensive line will be dominant is when they get a good offensive line coach and offensive coordinator.
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Ok I nominate Will Shields for o-line coach!
Eric Allen - January 19, 2012 via mobile
I would be all for that
O.C.ChiefsFan - January 19, 2012
That's a lot smarter of a move than drafting offensive line in the first round
If we can get a great offensive line coach (Like the Texans) and a great offensive mind we’d benefit a TON more than drafting a lineman in the first round.
I’d be all for getting Will Shields, hopefully he wouldn’t be one of those good players, but bad coaches.
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
is he going to coach?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
There was something about him saying he'd be open to the possibility.
That’s about it.
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
bring roaf with him and if shit doesnt go right suit em up.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
o-line in 1st
this defense with Orton as qb & have Al Saunders as oc resign Bowe & Carr & Arrowhead would be fun & rocking again
sodablaster - January 19, 2012
Orton will most likely be gone and Al Saunders is still employed down in Oakland
KC_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
I say "No" to OT in the 1st.
Martin and Reiff are both very good, but improvement in pass pro’ and run-stout, respectively, are needed. You don’t draft in the 1st round for up-side. You draft for immediate up-side and high floor, and the floor, here, is RT. Some think that they’ll either one be PLENTY good at RT, and right away. I have my doubts, and I see guys close to as good that won’t go ’til later. No projects in the 1st. No thanks.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
who was you thinking of in the first?
I totally agree with your comment also.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Depends on trade-down and who slips, thunderlips.
I don’t have a really good feel for the DL talent. If KC stays at 11, and Kirkpatrick slides, he’d be tempting. I think there are 3 dominant OLs in this draft, for almost sure: Kalil, Decastro and Konz. Kalil’s outta reach. I wouldn’t feel many qualms about positional value, when it came to Decastro and Konz, because a great lineman is a great lineman, even if he’s not a tackle. Besides, I’d pursue a more pro-active strategy in giving my new guys a raise, and try to avoid taking it in the shorts when their rookie deals are done, and I can afford to pay an All Pro interior lineman $4 or $5 million a year, which would be appreciated if I gave it before I had to, and I’d probably end up ahead, down the road.
These GMs who squeeze every nickel and then lose their better players, or have to pay their better players franchise rates are penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Anyway, it’d take one HELL of a QB, LB or RB to tempt me at ALL in the 1st round. Still, quality of the player and immediate impact trumps positional value. So, there ya go.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
wow, I 100% agree with everything you just said.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
most of us agree with almost anything Prof Mills says
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Who cares but
I think we should trade out of 11, pick up the best available ILB or Saftey with our first pick and do the same for a Tackle with the second.
After that just give me more of the beef with a running back mixed in. Noodle-arm could be the 10th to 15th best passer in the league if he has 5-8 seconds every pass.
brinkdaddy - January 19, 2012
S? with our first rounder?
im really happy with berry and lewis as our starters. I agree we need depth there but do that like round 4 or round 3 if some stud drops to you.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Well..
I’m more for an ILB but with Cassel putting up so many points next year we’re going to need a lot of help stopping the pass.
brinkdaddy - January 19, 2012
curious what S did you have in mind? I havent even tried look at that position.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
If he's still there
Take Barron.
brinkdaddy - January 19, 2012
Don't lie Barron's speed, but if he can free up Berry from LB duties, they might have something special, there..
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
IF Carr leaves...
If Carr leaves town, then go for the best CB available that is graded early to mid 1st round.
If that isn’t the case, I actually say go with Richardson.
You can never have too many talented offensive players. NEVER!
If Carr is back, even with minimal addition, or defense is solid at worst and could be great with Berry back and an offense worth a darn.
Richardson basically takes the place of Thomas Jones and Jackie Battle on the roster and gives the new OC a huge asset in the running game to take pressure off the passing game. At that point in the draft, without getting RG3, Richardson is the only player who makes the offense better instantly. Any other player (even OL) would take time to get used to the system and the NFL. While RBs have short life spans, they tend to be the most NFL ready right away.
UNIPanther - January 19, 2012
I dont like taking RB's round 1 personally unless they are like adrian peterson which richardson is nothing like him.
since we got JC that would be pointless, much rather get a guy later in the draft who can run you find RB’s all the time in the draft to fit what your looking for, or a veteran RB in free agency would probably be the best way to go.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
1st round picks are not for right tackles
come on guys, you don’t waist a 1st round pick on a right tackle. Sorry it’s not going to happen, maybe a left tackle if hes a stud.
Tbone8801 - January 19, 2012
Is that because if the right tackle is bad it really doesn't matter because the quarterback can see the pressure and use his wits and quick thinking ability to get the pass off anyway? Good thing we have Cassel for that, huh?
sea_people - January 19, 2012
I say you guys
Go QB if the option is there. You guys are already extremely stout on defense so I don’t see you going there with a pick. One of the big 3 of the receivers should drop down to you guys as well.
DopeFalcons - January 19, 2012
We have three or four very good receivers.
We’ll only pick one high if Bowe leaves via free agency or trade, and maybe not even then.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Assuming Bowe leaves
You have to go WR, if one of Floyd or Jeffrey is there.
DopeFalcons - January 19, 2012
its deep in free agency at WR though?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
who?
Bowe is 27 and the 12th best overall FA on the board … Welker is 10th, he’s 31 … Colston? Jackson? Johnson?
re-sign Bowe and be done with it
upamtn - January 19, 2012
what if we dont resign him though? then what?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
why don't we see what happens and then ask, ok?
upamtn - January 19, 2012
your string is showing today.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
ok, you REALLY wanna know who'd I'd want if Bowe leaves?
Gronkowski
now you know
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Not really, Breaston and Moeaki are good.
And Baldwin only played half a season, still has a lot of upside to be seen. It would be tough for a team like ours to go WR in the first round twice in a row.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
if bowe left, we didnt get a WR in free agency, I think baldwin, breaston, and draft broyles would be good enough.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
I'd love to get Broyles in the middle of the draft.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
yea im hoping his knee injury makes him slip for us to get later.
im a big fan of broyles.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
you'd reeplace Bowe with a kid with a knee injury and call it good enough?
upamtn - January 19, 2012
if bowe left im not going first round again for QB, who is there if you dont go first round better than broyles?
I would hope we could get more but I wouldnt have the mindset that we suck at WR if bowe left if we added someone like broyles. bowe is not that great to me?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Not that Bowe isn't that great, but more that we have other good receivers to take up some of the slack.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
I could see baldwin breaking out next year.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Bowe is good at losing us two games a year.
Kidding…kind of. Wouldn’t break my heart if he left, and I agree that we have enough talent at WR to justify him leaving.
Yes to Broyles in the middle rounds (5th?).
Ray Brown - January 19, 2012
But if the talent is there
I haven’t watched a ton of Chiefs games, but from what I have seen you guys are dominant on D. Don’t know if that’s more scheme than talent, but defense as it stands now, is not your priority in the first.Quality olineman can be found in later rounds and I’m not sure Breaston and Moeki by themselves are the answer. (Again assuming Bowe were to leave)
DopeFalcons - January 19, 2012
we got baldwin too.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
potential but unproven
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Exactly.
More matchup problems for teams. Say Baldwin doesn’t work out. Then you have whoever you selected plus Moeki, Breasto, Mccluster and Charles coming out of the backfield. And if he does have a breakout season, well then you become a gameplanning nightmare for other teams.
DopeFalcons - January 19, 2012
You don't draft insurance in the first round. Not WR insurance, anyway.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
You do
If your only options are Moeki and Breaston and hoping Baldwin breaks out.
DopeFalcons - January 19, 2012
Lol, no you don't.
Breaston was ranked among the most sure-handed receivers this year. Moeaki broke one or two of Gonzalez’s rookie records.
Sorry to make you re-do your mock, but we just don’t need a first round WR even if Bowe isn’t here.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
not enough balls to go around, waste of money.
I would rather make the D solid.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
And who would we have throw the ball to all of these great receivers?
A young developmental QB?
Cassel?
Not trade up for Barkley?
My 7th grade neighbor kid down the street?
FUCK!!! What the fuck are we going to do for a motherfucking QB? I am so pissed about this that I could cuss
Ray Brown - January 19, 2012
We need a QB
that can freaking sustain drives. I’m not asking for 40 points a game. If we can sustain drives offensively, that makes our defense much more effective.
ExRoyalsFan - January 19, 2012
I'm asking for a Super Bowl and the last time I checked you need a great QB. We don't have one of those on our roster.
Ray Brown - January 19, 2012
Not sure if a “great QB” is “needed” to win a SB. But it would certainly help. There are many different formulas for success.
ExRoyalsFan - January 19, 2012
As hard as it is to find a great QB,
It’s easier than finding a great 21 other players….
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
But finding a great QB is very hard
and if you trade up on aa rookie, and he doesn’t pan out, you’ve wasted a lot of draft value. There are very, VERY few “sure thing” rookie QBs, and even those don’t play well with a poor O.
I don’t want to go all-in on a QB at the expense of having a shitty team for years. Better to build a coaching staff that can develop QBs. We don’t have that ATM.
Bleedingredandgold - January 19, 2012
If a coach could make a QB, then QB's wouldn't be paid so much.
The best QB coach has to have some good raw material to start with.
It doesn’t need to cost a whole lot to trade up for a QB. We’ve been arguing over RB, RT, OG….all positions that can be filled easily with third round or later picks.
You know what I’m saying about finding 21 other players. A team is NEVER finished, NEVER perfect…It’s like having a project car. Sooner or later you’ve gotta stop tinkering with it because you’ll never know what you’ve got until you put it on the road.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
What do you think it would cost to take your gamble?
Me, I want a QB, and I’m willing to gamble, but i think this year we need an Oline more. Roll the dice next year.
I think your strategy to gamble this year will impact the team enough that we can’t really address the Oline this year or next year.
Also, I don’t think that we can develop a QB yet, so we gotta play the rookie right away. But he won’t develop behind a poor Oline, so that’s a year wasted.
Of course, Pioli might draft a WR or RB at 11, making the whole discussion moot.
Bleedingredandgold - January 20, 2012
OK, specifics...
Trade our first and second this year plus our first and second next year. Expensive, right? But not really, because our needs (if we retain Carr) are RT, OG/C, SILB, maybe NT, safety, RB…..did I hit everything? If so, then those are all positions that can be easily addressed with third round or later picks for two years.
Or, throw in a player like Dorsey or Bowe to save some picks. I’m not saying I want to get rid of those players by any means, but a top-shelf VET receiver and a probably solid 4-3 VET defensive tackle would be awfully tempting to a young and talent-poor Rams team.
I don’t understand your logic of having to start a rookie QB right away. If he doesn’t have good coaching support, then we should absolutely NOT throw him out on the field. RG3 is a smart, smart guy. And Cassel has shown to be a team player. Let RG3 sit and observe and ask questions and soak up the NFL.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
That supposes we can retain Carr. I;m not confident of that just yet
Secondly, while your plan has merit, I don’t see why we can’t snap up some good O-talent this year, and do it next year. There’s some good QBs in the pipeline for that. I don’t think RGIII is THAT special.
Next, your plan almost certainly ensures another middln’ year next season, rather than advancing toward contender status. Especially if you sit RGII.
I can see sitting a rookie QB for a year, maybe (at the outside) two, but if you’re picking that high, the current logic in the NFL is to start getting your value out fast, and that means OJT. I’m not sold that RGIII is that good. If we’re investing that much on a gamble, we need a QB that will pay off fast. I say do that next year.
But let me see if I have your theory correctly:
Burn this year’s and next year’s top 2 picks on RGIII (assuming we can get him for that), and sit him while we muddle along for a few years, until we cn recover from the loss of those picks, accepting that we won’t be a top-tier team until then. By then, we can start building a good-to-great Oline, and hope we still have a good D. nThen we can look to moving forward to building a playoff caliber team, probably under a new coaching regime.
is that right?
Bleedingredandgold - January 20, 2012
Almost right. I don't think we'll muddle along.
I think we are in a really good position to keep building the team on schedule withOUT using high draft picks. There’s definitely some building to do, and there’s always maintenance (Carr’s contract), but right now we don’t need LT, pass rusher or starting CB.
I think we’re in a great spot to be a playoff contender with the talent we have (barring injuries), fill in all our needs in the last 5 rounds, and use our high-pick currency on a QB.
Truthfully, I’m not stuck on RG3. I think he has great smarts and character, which put him over the top for me. But I’m very willing to believe he won’t make a splash in the NFL. What I really want is for us to make a stab at SOME top-shelf QB prospect either this year or next. Like H2E said, I wouldn’t be heartbroken if we traded down this year and hoarded some currency to trade up for Barkley next year. But the team is at the point in its development where they NEED to get that top prospect and let him start learning the NFL if they want him to peak before our current core is over the hill.
Bottom line is, we need to get that top prospect sooner or later, unless we are counting on duplicating the luckiest draft pick in the history of the football universe (Brady). Those top prospects go 1 or 2 more often than not. So, if we plan to be a solid, winning team with a good O line and defense, we’ll HAVE to take a leap at some point. It can’t always be “next year.”
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
When are yall going to give Tony back?
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
SO...
as someone who seems to be a contrarian here when I post, let me be the FIRST to remind folks that for a period from 1970 till about 1985 and from 1994 till now KC has drafted ZERO players that have helped us win a playoff game. Sorry to be the wet blanket BUT I am looking for us to trade for PROVEN PLAYERS and stop risking the draft! OR, do the Herschel Walker deal and get a FRANCHISE QB this year and stop using glorified back-ups as our QB! There…NOW I feel better! :)
Jason Drue Keith - January 19, 2012
Sorry Jason
We are the Chiefs, you might be thinking about the Redskins…..
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
NOPE!
I’ve seen them win Superbowls! I’m 41 and just missed good ole SB 4 by JUST a few months!
Jason Drue Keith - January 19, 2012
behind the Hogs with John Riggens
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
scenario.
we pickup OG grubbs, ILB jackson, resign bowe and carr, and snag a NT option not sure who in free agency and who do you take with the first and second round pick?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
can we skip all that and just steal the Trophy Now?
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Barkley, next year. The HIV plan.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Let's see...
Leiart? Palmer? Sanchez(getting run out of New York and Matty Boy! Should I be impressed with the USC QB Tree? :-)
Jason Drue Keith - January 19, 2012
Are you impressed with Michigan's QB tree before/after Brady?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
henne
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Yeah, he's awesome. Much better than Cassel and Orton.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
this is the Miami QB?
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
IR'd.
Has yet to get his QB rating over 80.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
I dont like henne?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Are you asking me?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
no thought you was trying to convince me he sucks with his stats.
I agree he sucks
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
But what about Todd Collins?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Hey, Gutierrez was a Wolverine, too!
Damn, we’ve had like 33% of Michigan’s QBs since 1990.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
99% of New England QB's
The Patriots kept the top 1%
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
bastards!
upamtn - January 19, 2012
whats denard robinson going to end up doing in the NFL QB still or project?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
I think his height probably hurts his chances.
But then, Brees did it, so I dunno.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
is he available
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
Grbac.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Or Cal's before/after Rodgers?
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Flowers, I gotta call you out on your line about BRich being the worst guy on the team
looking at Football Outsiders stats we were the WORST in the league in rushing up the middle … which we did on almost 50% of our runs … 32 out of 32 … dead last
the argument was made in another post that it was because Battle and TJ got tackled in the backfield so often, a valid point but it overlooks the fact that it’s Interior OLine blocking that stops those defenders from doing that to begin with
Wiegs is close to retiring (and should by all rights) and Lilja looked far worse than he did a year ago …
no further need to explain why DeCastro is preferred choice of millions of Chiefs fans across the globe
upamtn - January 19, 2012
who do you prefer if we got grubbs in free agency?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
ask me if we get him ... but I'd prefer DeCastro to anyone except maybe Nicks right now, and even that's a close call
upamtn - January 19, 2012
ok decastro breaks his neck and never plays again who you taking then?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
never underestimate Stephen Hawking
upamtn - January 19, 2012
so your taking who?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
no clue
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Scrap Wiegmann for Hudson, watch Lilja get back to form
You want to get those tough, up the middle yards? Run right between Asamoah and Richardson, with Mcclain leading the way. 3 yards easily.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Decastro, but I don’t see him as a pressing need, especially if he may not start over Lilja.
I’m starting to lean more towards RT being the only o-line position I think we should target in the first
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
I can't imagine he WOULDN'T start ahead of Lilja
given we were dead last in running up the middle, I think that’s a crucial need … agree that Hudson SHOULD be a vast improvement over an aging Wiegs, but still … and DeCastro is best at pulling and blocking on the move: just what our ZBS dictates
upamtn - January 19, 2012
I believe improvements running up the middle will be made in house
Subtracting Wiegmann and Jones, adding Hudson and Charles, along with a healthy dose of Mcclain/Battle/other RB will fix that ailment.
If we want to improve arguably the most important aspect of this offense to improve, passing, and we aren’t going all in on a QB, then improve the pass protection. RT is the obvious need there. That is where the o-line needs the biggest and quickest upgrade
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
arguably is right ...
dude! Orton moved the sticks from 20 to 20 pretty well for us more than a few times, but we still had Red Zone issues, still had short yardage issues … that’s not QB, that’s OLine … that’s Interior OLine
Charles doesn’t run up the middle, he goes off tackle or ourside … now Battle, yeah … he and McClain run up the middle
and where are WEAKEST? Interior of the OLine … and yeah, I did say Hudson should improve it, but keeping Lilja there will NOT be an “improvement” … DeCastro immediately upgrades that position and the entire group
we can find another RT in 2nd or 3rd, or stick Mims in if you like, but the fact remains the RT position is NOT the weakest spot on the OLine
upamtn - January 19, 2012
I tend to agree with you, Ups
I’m all about K-Staters playing for the Chiefs, but Lilja has become a liability. I think the Colts knew he was declining or he’d still be in Indy. We’ve gotten a couple years out of Ryan, but it’s time to upgrade the position. He could still provide decent depth though.
Chief Willie Wildcat - January 19, 2012
I agree with this
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Heck, Lilja couldn't even pass Indy's physical, or so it was reported.
I’m with Ups on the immediate improvement Decastro or Konz would likely bring. While others are counting Kalil, Martin, Reiff off on their fingers, Ups and I are ticking-off Decastro, Konz, hoping for the first, but ready to pull the trigger on the big center, too. Both are difference-makers.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
To even try to argue that RT isn't the weakest spot on the o-line is ridiculous
You likely have an entire nation of Chiefs fans that adamantly disagree with you on that.
The point from me is Lilja isn’t in need of an instant upgrade. He is an above average guard that can perform at a very high level in this system. While you might be able to make the argument that Decastro could improve the interior run game, he might actually be a downgrade in pass protection, which at that point, is a wash, at best.
I just don’t see the “glaring” need to replace a guard in his prime who you would not have wanted to replace after the 2010 season, but yet vehemently want gone after one season of relearning a different position, playing next to Wiegmann, and having to try to open holes for Thomas Jones.
That would be like wanting to replace Bowe because of having Palko throw to him all season.
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
well, I have my own little army that disagrees with you (and Flowers)
Lilja in his prime? wait … we ditched Waters because he was “too old” but now Lilja who’s not much younger than Waters and has had injuries (Waters has not) and has played horribly (Waters goes to Pro Bowl) and you claim he’s “in his prime”
brilliant logic!
the pass protection wouldn’t drop with DeCastro, but the run production would sure go up …
upamtn - January 19, 2012
The definition of "not much older" in real life and football are two different things
Lilja is 30. Waters is 34. But nice try though.
Lilja will be the veteran presence on the line, no doubt. But he’s not on the Waters train yet. And don’t start playing the pro bowl card here, bub. Matt Cassel may approve your pro-bowl-as-vindication message, but we all know better than that.
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
keep workin' it, my friend ... maybe you'll find something to convince me, but I doubt it
you realize that by our pick the best OT’s are gone … if we’re going to get a first round pick, let’s get the BEST guy we can get …
you know who that is
upamtn - January 19, 2012
And considering
Many scouting reports feel decastro may struggle with bigger d-linemen in the pros in pass protection, as they can get under and drive him back pretty easily, I think its a safe bet saying that possibly improving the interior run game and downgrading the interior pass protection is not gaining us anything
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
http://walterfootball.com/draft2012bigboard.php
you need more? I got more if you want it …
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Sign me up
ExRoyalsFan - January 19, 2012
Plenty more, just not the more you want
http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-report-david-decastro
http://ogdraft.com/2012/01/david-decastro-scouting-report/
http://nflsoup.com/?p=19037
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012
since we're only getting part of the story from Draft Breakdown, how about more of it, shall we?
you know, the very next paragraph … oh yeah, easy transition to LG, how about that! :-)
check and mate
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Cool, you proved a point that I already ceded
He might improve our run blocking up the middle, but again, my point is he might downgrade our pass protection in the middle. One isn’t really more important than the other, not if we want to be a serious contender.
I do like DeCastro, and I would be fine drafting him, but I don’t see upgrading the interior as a big need right now. I feel Lilja is going to once again be an above average LG with the improvement of center play next to him, and the continued development of Asamoah.
With that said, I’m leaning more towards Martin to come in at RT if a first round O-line draft pick is made. That is what will help our offense the most, in my opinion.
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012
Guys, stop debating and agree that our new LG should be:
Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin.
jmcgoblue - January 19, 2012
heh ... have to research the guy, but I've seen his name tossed around some :-)
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Here ya go
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1695544
jmcgoblue - January 19, 2012
ok, you think that RT and pass protection is our biggest need ...
does it make a difference that our pass protection is virtually identical from 2012 to 2011?
to be expected, of course, with BRich still at RT
but the big change was the run game … granted Charles was gone all year, but with most of our runs up the middle (can you say TJ?) we went from 6th to 32nd … what changed? the interior of the OLine
same TJ running up the middle, but the blocking was horrendous
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Hmm, interesting
Lilja is getting old and declining, but not TJ. He is exactly the same from last season to this season and only the blocking got worse. Logical, unbiased, gleaming example to prove your point.
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
And wherever you are getting your info, I would never go there again
Because how giving up 26 sacks total in 2010 to giving up 22 in 2011 to Cassel alone (remember how many games he didn’t play) is claimed to be “virtually identical” is grossly, disgustingly, badly misstated. That is an understatement
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
Obviously we will have to agree to disagree
But one thing we do know: Pioli himself has said (he said something?) egad he wants to see improved o-line play. Whether that is on the edges, interior, or both, we will just have to see what ends up being the priority
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
So what do you like about DeCastro
Have you seen him play? And if so ,what stands out to you about him. I’m just curious, you seem to be the number 1 guy pushing for him on here. . I am talking here about what YOU have SEEN. I now relinquish the floor to my colleague from Colorado
saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 20, 2012
The Pac 12 are exactly know for there mammoth DT's
saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 20, 2012
Oh those Samoans.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
oops I meant aren't my bad
When was the last great DT to come into the NFL out of the pac 12 and just dominate. I can’t think of 1 in recent history
saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 20, 2012
Nada.
Or Ngata :)
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
The do have some big boys there, good on the college level even if they don't show as well in the NFL.
Paea, Fua, Ta’amu.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
Ya Ngata is about the only guy
i’m sure there are more but I just can’t think of many off the top of my head. Oh Junior Siavi how could I forget that playmaker?
saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 20, 2012
come on man, you got someone else you like? konz?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
he's a 2nd round pick
upamtn - January 19, 2012
Ha, he is one of those players the great teams get
and remain great cause they got him
Steve_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
what? thought he was the top C prospect as of now? and a stud about as good as decastro?
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Dream scenario for us is
for Richardson to fall to us at 11 and a team that needs a runningback (BENGALS) trades up to get him. If it is the bengals and we can get their 2 first round picks then that’s a deal we should never turn down and im sure pioli would jump on it. It could be asking a lot from them but Richardson is the best running back prospect since AP and i think it’s pretty fair. if we do manage to get those picks than what we do with them depends a lot on what happens with bowe and carr. if Bowe leaves or gets tagged and traded then I wouldn’t mind kendall wright later in the first round as a great speedy compliment to big jon baldwin. Wright has amazing run after the catch ability as well as sprinter speed and good hands where baldwin in my opinion is not good at all at getting yards after the catch. With the other pick i think burfict is a good pick. I know about all the questions about him but i think with dj next to him and crennel coaching him that we have a strong enough locker room to channel his aggresiveness in a good way, much like ray lewis did. With the second round pick i think OT is the obvious choice considering how bad richardson is. If Dontarie Poe is available though I wouldn’t be surprised to see pioli take him.
If not the bengals then maybe make a deal with someone else and get their first and some other picks (a first next year would be real nice).. Pioli likes trading down and i think it’s a real good strategy to building a perennial powerhouse.
If we can’t find any trade partners then i expect martin or reiff to be the pick if they’re still their, or maybe decastro who i wouldn’t mind. If carr or bowe leaves though than cornerback moves up the list of needs and i could see us taking 1 in the first (not sure who though with all the questions facing kirkpatrick now and jenkins history)
As for who’s our qb i don’t think any1 outside luck and griffin can be a franchise qb, at least not soon enough for us. Manning would be ideal, he has 3 or 4 good years left in him and this team is ready to win now.
Of couse this is a waste of time because in the end cassel is gonna be our qb and pioli is gonna take michael brockers from LSU because, well…. he’s a 3-4 DE from LSU, nuff said.
njchiefs29 - January 19, 2012
heard kendall wright might go close to or before blackmon?
personally I think blackmon is a beast that nobody comes close to in this draft but I read that somewhere about kendall wright going pretty high in round 1.
the great thunderlips - January 19, 2012
Yeah I heard that too
But I dnt think there’s any way in hell he goes before Blackmon.. Also heard Houston really likes him so who knows
njchiefs29 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
reach
saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 20, 2012
Would love to make that trade with the Bengals
But, they would be stupid to trade both first rounders to us for #11…a fairer trade would be their #17 and their 2nd rounder (which I’d also do). The other issue is that none of the teams picking between us & Cincy are really in the market for a RB. Why would they trade up if they don’t need to?
jmcgoblue - January 19, 2012
I answered right tackle
but honestly wouldn’t be upset if they took the best athlete left on the board. If that’s an o-lineman, running back, linebacker, safety, or corner, I certainly wouldn’t complain. With the depth we need on the team anything is possible.
Chief Willie Wildcat - January 19, 2012
Best way to add depth is add a better starter!
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
Sounds good to me!
I guess that’s what I was trying to explain in my first post. Anyone that’s an upgrade is good with me.
Chief Willie Wildcat - January 19, 2012
Free Agency comes before the draft....
I am in hopes that this is the year we make a splash in Free Agency and fill some of those holes we have with proven players before the draft. There are some QUALITY lineman available this year. Carl Nicks from New Orleans being one of them. D’Qwell Jackson stands out as someone who would fit nicely next to DJ in the middle. Didn’t Romeo draft him? As for all of you screaming for us to draft a quarterback, we all know it’s not going to happen. Cassel is the QB going into next year. We have to live with that. I would love to see us make a deal for Ryan Mallet and sit him on our bench for a year. He is a big qb with a big arm and I bet he could be had for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. As far as the draft, you take the best player available. It doesn’t matter what position it is. Remember Larry Johnson? Now before you crucify me for mentioning that idiot’s name, remember what he did for us when Priest went down. We didn’t need him when we drafted him, but for that period of time before he caught “Larry Johnson Disease,” (That’s what we call it when a RB gets paid and no longer can make more than a 3 yard run. CJ2K caught the disease this year.) he was an absolute force for us. We were all happy when he was running for 1700 yards but we weren’t on draft day. I totally agree that we have several positions that need improvement. I’m just in hopes that the draft needs change drastically before the draft in April.
chiefs fan 13 - January 19, 2012
I've seen the Mallett thing before
why would the Pats have any desire to move him though? Brady is not getting any younger and he presents a far more polished product than Brian Hoyer (the backup now) does.
As for LJ, just saying, that line made Derrick Blaylock look like an All-Pro. LJ was never as good as he appeared.
Steve_in_RI - January 19, 2012
You could argue the same thing for a lot of running backs
u can’t fault the rb for having a good I line.. Lj had talent no matter what any1 says he just didn’t have a smart enough head on his shoulders and he took a ton of mileage in those 3 years.. As for potential free agency moves I’d love to bring in some big name and proven players as much as the next guy but unfortunately I don’t see it
njchiefs29 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
LJ had an extra gear, especially for his size.
And he was rugged. Besides, choosing apparently for measurables, rather than all-around play and IQ in the later rounds, KC really didn’t develop many HBs outside of the 1st. Seemed like most of Carl’s picks were measuring-tape types, rather than PLAYERS. Not a whole lot of McCluster/Lewis/Arenas picks, where the guys ooze football instincts out of their pores. Carl would go after somebody bigger or faster, and the game would be too big or too fast for them.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
The Patriots....
Will trade anyone, with the exception of Brady, if the price is right. They have proven that on several occasions. They will trade Pro Bowl players in their prime for the right draft pick. I.E. Richard Seymour.
chiefs fan 13 - January 19, 2012
Still didn't like LJ as high as he was chosen..
KC could’ve had about as good and more versatile farther down in the draft, and what might they have done with that pick going to OL? Maybe they wouldn’t have tanked when Roaf retired and Tait skedaddled.
hmills110 - January 19, 2012
I answered other
because I think trading down is a non-exciting but very viable possibility to give ourselves a chance to get 3 or 4 selections out of the first two rounds.
Steve_in_RI - January 19, 2012
Decastro Baby.
Lets get the Inside set Albert is playing well at LT no reason to draft a RT so high. But if Carr leaves this chanes the whole ball game. Corner is a big ticket item and I can say easly we need to get the best one available. I like Janoris Jenkins over Dre Kirkpatric but he would be nice I think we have to draft someone off that bama D. I also wouldnt mind the NT Poe or any two of the above 1,2 round. To the ILB people man I dont think thats it at all in the top picks but I’d love a Jerry Franklin in the 5th.
K2HaL - January 19, 2012
This is a Pass Happy league, we need the best pass protection available
I do agree we need the best quarterback available, either free agency or draft, but as Bear Bryant once said “Defense Wins Championships”. That said, I believe our first pick should be someone like Dre Kirkpatrick CB from Alabama or Alphonso Denard from Nebraska.
Jamie Boy - January 19, 2012
What do you guys think about Vontaze Burfict? Any chance of getting him in the second? Very raw player but with a defensive-minded coach in Romeo Crennel, this guy could be very special.
Matthew Corlin - January 19, 2012
no thanks ... plays with his head up his tail end, misses tackles, draws numerous penalties
physical talent but no brains to go with it
upamtn - January 19, 2012
ups any news on marty going to tampa
the gleam is going to tampa
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
nah
upamtn - January 19, 2012
HECK NO O-LINE!!!
So many people want a dominant line like in 2003. Let’s take a look:
2003:
Roaf – Traded from Saints (Former 1st Round pick)
Waters – Undrafted Free Agent (Cowboys)
Wiegmann – Undrafted Free Agent (Colts)
Shields – Round 3 pick of the Chiefs 1993
Tait – Round 1 pick of the Chiefs 1991
So far on our line, we already have 1 Round 1 pick. (Albert) We also have a 2nd Round pick (Hudson), and a 3rd Round pick (Asamoah)
I’d say if 2003 is the model, we’ve invested enough draft picks into the starting Offensive Line. It’s time to go after a free agent or find a trade for our tackle need, and use what we have from there. (Hoping Wiegmann retires)
We want to draft a late round O-line project, I’m good with that.
UNIPanther - January 19, 2012
you should put a comma or period.
it looks like you’re against o-lines
Chiefshero - January 19, 2012
Osweiler !!!
the scout 2 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
going pro only its in the
NBA
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Lilja and Wiegman are too small...
for the game today. I sit 40’ from the offensive end of the Chiefs bench and it’s remarkable to see them close up. The kid at Lees Summit West and a couple of guys at Rockhurst last season were bigger. In fact a lot of HS lineman are. Those two guys are a big part of the problem for Cassel. Rapid inside pressure is trouble for any QB especially for a player with poor feet and a slow release.
since63 - January 19, 2012
Go Hawklets!
MasterBlaster7 - January 20, 2012
I've seen a lot of comments saying
“You can’t draft a _ (insert position name) in the 1st”
If it fits a big need, I think you can draft any position in the 1st round. We need to beef up the interior line. If it’s drafting a Guard in the 1st round, so be it!
ExRoyalsFan - January 19, 2012
fuck that, let's not draft anybody in the first
that way everybody will be happy
Chiefshero - January 19, 2012
I would be.
If we can’t get up to RG3, then I’d much prefer to go all the way to the back end of the first round or even later than pick somebody at 11/12.
Brsrkr - January 19, 2012
Kicker? Punter? Long snapper?
RememberDelaney37 - January 19, 2012 via mobile
Guard and Right Tackle
Nooooo way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ExRoyalsFan - January 19, 2012
why we got mims
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Carr tweets
early it was “Kinda good to be back in KC”
now its: “KC fans show hella love!”
get it done guys. let’s put at least one of these stories to bed.
Shanghai_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
yeah i hope the check gets sent to carr
would be great to hear
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
When does FA start?
Ray Brown - January 19, 2012
Early March,
Ray Brown - January 19, 2012
not soon enough.
Shanghai_Chiefs - January 19, 2012
any thoughts on mims replacing b rich this year
i think he got a good shot baring zero fa signings
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
Seems like a bit of an unknown still
ExRoyalsFan - January 19, 2012
.got to give mims a shot can't be worse than b. rich
b.rich can run block better than pass block, i like mims raw but i think he gets it
niageriannit1 - January 19, 2012
You got the part about thunder scaring people
and lightning killing them right. That is a positive thing when they are doing that to opposing defenses. If we are going to be stuck with Cassel at quarterback, drafting a running back makes perfect sense. I imagine Orton will be allowed to walk away from the Chiefs and our qb situation will be as sucky or nearly as sucky as last year. We need help on the offensive line there is no doubt about that, but do we go with DeCastro at number 11? Shoot Pioli took Jackson at number 4 I believe, so who knows what he might do? I never would have thought Jackson would have gone that high. It is going to be darned interesting to watch whatever the case.
G.L. - January 20, 2012
At the end of the day
We have many needs that can be filled by top-end talent. We need to draft the best player available that fits a need on offense. If Trent is available, I’m drafting him. If not, I take DeCastro. If he’s gone too, I take Jonathan Martin. (this is all assuming that Luck, Kalil, RGIII, Reiff, and Blackmon are gone) Done deal. Devon Still (DE) is right in the mix as far as talent, and I love Dre Kirkpatrick (CB), but I do feel that offense is our biggest area of need. Re-signing Carr and Bowe is a must. At that point we get the best offensive difference maker available.
getusome - January 20, 2012
Right Tackle
PFF did a nice dissection of pass blocking efficiency. Brandon Albert is tied for 10th best in the league. BRich is tied for 4th worst. Leave Albert where he is, and get a stud RT. No matter how much I want a different QB, I think Pioli is going to leave Cassel where he is, and if we have ANY hope for a playoff win next year, Cassel needs a lot more time to figure out who he’s going to throw at (not “to”, I specifically mean “at”…cause hey, he sucks). Get Dontari Poe in the second so we can have people Pwned via Powe or Poe.
The Gentry - January 20, 2012
Link to PFF's article, which I'm sure most of you have already seen
The Gentry - January 20, 2012
It's simple....
If you don’t go after RG3 or Luck, you don’t go after a QB in the first 3-4 rounds. We already have a project QB and a starting “game managing” QB. If you don’t upgrade to a Franchise QB…it’s a waste.
IF you don’t get a QB…then you draft either a OG or OT and pick up the other in free agency.
Next, ILB or S
Pick up a RB in the 3rd or 4th, a big power runner to compliment Charles.
Resign Carr and Bowe
Win the AFC West for the next 5 years.
Brad-KC - January 20, 2012
Needs are many? Stability of offense important! It starts with RB!
We all know we need a QB of the future, and lineman. We should draft QB this, next year every year. That would give us 3 QB’ s to compete for the start. My vote is for my opinion of sleeper of the draft Case Keenum. We can draft OL in later rounds, also look at free agents. RB is the 1st pick we should make If Trent Richardson is available. Look at this logically and on basis of the shelf life of RB’s in today’s NFL. Jamal Charles I fully believe will be back 100% and I hope he has a long career, but what if another injury happens. Today’s NFL is a 2 back system. If a team does not utilize this, they need to. Look at all this past year, AP, Mendenhall, Charles, Foster, Forte, all of them suffered injuries, many went out for season. Bring Richardson in, give him some touches to get him going. Charles is our primary back, but he needs a bruiser/game breaker to compliment him. We all saw this year what I juries can do to a team.
kcdrake - January 20, 2012
We should draft QB this, next year every year
I hope you’re joking
Brad-KC - January 20, 2012
Also, running backs are a dime a dozen…especially behind a great Oline. You spend high picks on Olinemen that can play for a decade and block for 3 different running backs that have 4 year shelf lives.
Brad-KC - January 20, 2012
Agreed.
Look at the line Terrell Davis ran behind.
TDubb - January 20, 2012
or Priest Holmes
Brad-KC - January 20, 2012
Other than QB I can't think of a single position upgrade which would benefit this team more than NT.
I don’t know if Powe is that upgrade, or some free agent, or if it will be 1st round pick or a 5th round pick.
I do know that barring a trade up or down, we won’t upgrade QB, so I voted NT.
PVChiefsfan - January 20, 2012
Cornerback in Rd 1
What about cornerback in Rd 1 this year? I know everyone wants Carr back – including me; he was the best CB we had this year – but I think that someone will overpay for him (Detroit?) and Pioli won’t want to. Given the fact that there are at least 3 highly rated CBs slated for early round one selectoin and that they will likely fall down the board as teams reach for the few good offensive players in the draft, the fact that rookie CBs can contribute successfully to a winning team, and the fact that there are a lot of good offensive and defensive lineman that are available in free agency, I think Pioli makes the strategic move to find a CB in the draft while spending the money on free agent offensive lineman that we would want him to spend on Carr.
KCmikeman - January 20, 2012
CB is one of the classic positions to take at the top of the draft.
If Carr leaves, I think CB probably becomes our favorite target at #11/12.
Brsrkr - January 20, 2012
Trade up for QB
You may think I am thinking that Pioli should trade up for RG3, but actually I think that Pioli should trade up on the back-end of Rd 1 to target Nick Foles. The guy is tall, accurate, prolific, runs a Brady-like 40 yd dash but looks like he has very good pocket mobility and is willing to take the hit, was very productive on a team that had a terrible defense, and played both under center and in the gun. The cost to trade up wouldn’t be nearly as bad as the top of Rd 1 and there are usually lots of trading partners for the end of Rd 1.
KCmikeman - January 20, 2012
do a ctrl+F for Foles, and you'll find some adamant dissenters
I’d prefer Cousins
SagehenMacGyver47 - January 20, 2012
Cousins
Has a weak arm like cassel. No thanks.
Tripower66 - January 22, 2012 via mobile
What i would like to see the KC Chiefs do in the 2012 draft
Piolis trade down tactic is a genious idea an i would love to see it happen this year again. My idea is trade down far enough to get a 2nd and a 3rd round draft pick but to still be far enough of the Pittsburgh Steeler to draft Dontari Poe. In the second round draft Stanfords Tight end Colby Fleener and with the other 2nd round pick draft Nick Foles. If Colby Fleener than pick Nick Foles and the BYU tackle Matt Reynolds. Then in the third round we could draft a hb or do just about whatever we want because we have just figured out alot of our glaring needs.
ram1113 - January 23, 2012
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