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Arrowhead Pride

Ramblings Of An Idiot: My Opinion Isn't Humble

2011 is in the books, along with another season of Chiefs football. Having failed to make the playoffs, the Chiefs are forced to nurse their wounds and try to get healthy for next year. A couple of guys are getting an all expense paid vacation to Hawaii for their efforts this season, and that's the highlight of the Chiefs season.

On the positive side: Defense, defense, defense. The longer the season went, the more the Chiefs defense improved. Even without the very good, and equally over-hyped (potential aside, what has he really accomplished so far in his career?) Eric Berry on the field the Chiefs managed to field what I would consider an elite level secondary. If anyone on the Chiefs staff has earned some props it has to be Emmitt Thomas. Thomas is a Hall of Fame thirteen year veteran Chiefs player returned home to coach the secondary; and he's done a fantastic job. With second, third, and at times fourth string safeties playing in games the Chiefs still managed to put a talented squad on the field that had the ability to cover anyone they faced. Thomas earns my Chiefs coach of the year award hands down. (Mr. Thomas please feel free to drive down to Texas for your honorary pack of gum and autographed picture of Cliff Claven from Cheers)

Romeo Crennel should get the nod for his scheme and play calling for sure. His use of press-man principals outside, with zone in the middle and the occasional 4-3 alignment were great calls that allowed the team to hide their flaws in the back-field while still covering for long enough that the front seven could get some pressure. Crennel has more than earned his contract as the defensive coordinator. He put together outstanding game plans over and over again all season long that perfectly anticipated the offenses tendencies. The team didn't always execute, but the game plans were solid. I'll be disappointed to see him taken out of the role of coordinator, even if he takes over as the head coach. Crennel's system kept the Chiefs in games that the Chiefs offense had no business still being in.

Star-divide

Gary Gibbs and Andy Zimmer also deserve a shout out for the development of rookie linebacker Justin Houston. As was expected, Houston entered the season looking completely lost on the field. To be fair, he had no real off-season to learn the scheme or mesh with his teammates. He didn't look like he even belonged on the field at the start of the year. Not knowing exactly who influenced him most, I have to assume his linebacker coaches carried the majority of the load when it comes discussing Houston's improvement. I never saw any kind of drop off from Justin in 2011. He got a little bit better each week. By the end of the season he starting showing some of those flashes in his game play that got him attention headed into the draft. If this kid can keep his nose clean and proves up to the task of self motivation that the NFL requires; I think he can be a very good player opposite Hali.

Speaking of Hali...... Oh what a difference the 3-4 makes. Since changing schemes away from the 4-3 Tamba Hali looks like a different player. Again, I will pass a little bit of that credit on to Gibbs and Zimmer. Tamba is well known for being a hard worker and striving for perfection so I'm sure much of the credit starts and stops with him, but coaching will always play a role in moving a guy to a different position. Tamba Hali (as much as people don't want to admit it) was barely better than average as a pass rusher in the 4-3. His best years hovered around 8 sacks, even with Jared Allen chasing quarterbacks in his direction. Hali is a much better player in the 3-4, and Houston could be coached into the kind of complimentary piece that the Chiefs would be lucky to have. I'd decry the coaches for the debacle that is Belcher, but it's hard to make chicken salad from chicken............poop. (can you tell I'm not a Belcher fan?)

On the not so positive side: The Chiefs need a solution to stop the run up the middle. Kelly Gregg was a better player at NT than the team has had in previous seasons but he's teetering on the edge of retirement, and at times it shows. We're not going to win a lot of games with the front seven giving up over 130 yards a game rushing. Stopping that run is going to have to start with an inside linebacker that can make a devastating tackle and a nose tackle that can play two gaps on a consistent basis. Powe didn't see enough time on the field for the fans to find out what we got for our sixth round pick. The nose tackle position is still a mystery the Chiefs must solve headed into 2012, and Belcher needs to be replaced. Siler may or may not be the answer, but it would be hard for him to turn into a worse linebacker vs. the run than Belcher. If we aren't going all in for a quarterback in 2012 I'll be right back on my 'draft an impact run stuffer in the first round' train. I'm sure the ride has gotten old after 3 years for some of you, but we haven't actually ended it yet. We appear to be circling the track back to the same problem every off-season. (And now come the 30 comments from people telling me that a run stuffing linebacker 'isn't worth' a first round pick, even though we've had the same hole in our defense year after year)

Steve Breaston is a damn good slot receiver. Why is that 'not so positive', you ask? Because, Dexter McCluster was supposed to be our change up player that could catch balls out of the slot and the backfield, while also spelling Jamaal Charles at RB. McCluster's role in the slot has been made completely moot by Breaston's clutch catches when the first down is on the line. Breaston didn't see as many balls as I'd have liked to have seen thrown his way, but when he got the chance he delivered. So now what do the Chiefs do with Peanut McCluster? He's not nearly a good enough blocker to keep in the back field on passing downs. He doesn't seem to have Charles' vision of the field, nor cutback ability. And he's not ever going to be a lead blocker for Charles. That leaves his role as a sometime fill in player when Charles needs a breather, and a gimmick-play surprise player. In short, the Chiefs paid a hefty price to get the second best return man on the team that can carry the ball on occasion if he has to.

Offense, offense, offense. Simply put, the Chiefs don't seem to have any. At best, the Chiefs have an offense that can execute between their twenty-five and the opponents twenty-five yard lines but fails everywhere else on the field. Sure, we were missing our best pass catching TE and starting RB, but the team has enough other weapons that we should have been able to turn at least half of those field goals into touchdowns.

The line needs some help. I don't believe they need as much help as some others would have you believe. I hate the idea of moving Brandon Albert. He's at least a top fifteen left tackle in the NFL, and the best part of his game is pass blocking. The biggest hole is at guard. (that's right, I said guard, not right tackle). Putting on my 'Carnac' hat, I'm confident in saying that Hudson will be the Chiefs center in 2012. Asamoah continued to improve throughout the year, and looks to be up to speed and gelling with the rest of the line. I like Asamoah to stay for years to come as a Chiefs guard. I don't have the same faith in Lilja. Lilja has done exactly what the Chiefs asked of him. He's filled a gap for a couple of years so that the team could draft players along the line and work them into the line up. That's all I ever really expected of him from the moment we signed him. He's a 2 or 3 year stop gap. We've now replaced a guard and a center, and I look for the Chiefs to draft Lilja's replacement in the upcoming draft. We could certainly use an upgrade at right tackle. Richardson is not the long term solution, but securing the middle of the line to create a solid pocket for the QB and to move the defensive front for the run game is more important. Mims is a player in development, and I believe they kept him over Gaither for a reason. Also, a right tackle is much easier to find in free agency than a left tackle, so that's a viable option. No matter what we choose to do, the team has got to have a line that can protect our quarterback.

Here we go again, yet another new offensive coordinator. Yet another new offensive scheme. Yet another new 'vision' for what the Chiefs offense should become, and along with that comes another series of players that don't fit to replace. This is perhaps the worst thing of all about the 2011 season. If you want to know why the defense has improved and developed at a much faster rate than the offense, look no further than the consistency in coaching and vision. Pioli's biggest decision is not who to hire as a head coach, but rather, who to hire at offensive coordinator. We need to pick ONE person that the team will hitch their wagon to for at least three full seasons. The rotating door at offensive coordinator has been killing us, and will continue to hold the team back until it stops.

On the disaster of all disaster's side: Kyle Orton is slightly better than Matt Cassel. Kyle Orton had one of the best games of his career against the Packers, and the Chiefs still struggled mightily to score touchdowns. Kyle Orton has a career track record of being a mediocre quarterback with trouble protecting the ball and winning when it counts. Matt Cassel has a career track record of being a mediocre quarterback with trouble making reads and going through progressions. Because Kyle Orton is slightly better than Matt Cassel, there are a contingent of Chiefs fans that are willing to settle. It's the same old trap we have fallen into for over twenty years. Cassel is not ever going to be a top ten quarterback, and neither is Orton. The Chiefs need to stop hitching their wagon to other teams cast offs, and quarterbacks that have proven they aren't the answer, or guys over the hill on the down side of their careers.

The fans and the front office need to stop settling for something slightly better than they have, at the cost of never pushing all their chips in the middle and taking a chance on greatness. I would never root for my team to lose, and I can't justify trying to do so for a better draft selection. But, it's been twenty-nine years since the Chiefs took a chance on a first round quarterback. With Indy replacing their entire front office, you can bet the new GM will want to get 'his' quarterback, so Andrew Luck is off the table. Peyton Manning may stay with the Colts or not; but going after Peyton after his three surgeries and all the questions surrounding his ability to come back would be a huge mistake. It would be just another in a long line of quarterback the Chiefs wait to pursue until their prime has passed. Griffin will be sitting there at the Rams' pick. The Rams will not be replacing Bradford in 2012. The Rams need help all over the field, and the Chiefs have players they could tag and trade at receiver, safety, and defensive tackle. The Rams will be selling their draft slot to the highest bidder, and the Chiefs need to make a serious attempt to buy that pick. Twenty-nine years is far too long; Please don't make it thirty.

In the modern era of football a teams offense goes as their quarterback goes. The Chiefs do not have a competitive offense with Kyle Orton or Matt Cassel at the helm. Orton may very well be better than Cassel at reading and running the offense, but he's not good enough to take the offense to another level. He's merely good enough to make us slightly better than we are now. It's not enough. Either Cassel or Orton needs to go (the other can be the back up) and the Chiefs need to bring in a young player with tons of potential, and an accurate strong arm. The Chiefs need to put a player on the field that hasn't had the chance to start anywhere else before, and build an offensive plan around them. We need to pair our new incoming head coach and offensive coordinator with their potential quarterback of the future, and develop the offense around them. And then we need to leave them all alone for at least 3 seasons without changing the scheme or the coordinator. The Chiefs need to develop their own quarterback.

My first choice would be Luck or Robert Griffin, but I'd settle for Matt Flynn getting his first chance to start in Kansas City. The biggest disaster on the Chiefs team is the quarterback position. It's well past time for us to take a big risk chasing a big reward. We've been playing it safe for almost thirty years and it's gotten us nowhere. If it takes two first rounders and a player or two in trade to move up and take Griffin, fine. Get it done. Let's get in the game instead of sitting on the sidelines.

Poll
In your eyes, what are the good the bad and the ugly for the Chiefs moving from 2011 to 2012?
OMG! You're so smart! I agree with everything you said, and everything you'll ever say in the future. Will you have my baby?
123 votes
About half of your thoughts hold some merit, I just don't know which half
257 votes
You're wrong on well over half of your opinions. Read the comments to learn a thing or 2
48 votes
KYLE ORTON IS THE BESTEST QB OF ALL TIME. I WANNA HAVE HIS BABY!
92 votes
I have made a New Years Resolution to stop listening to idiots. Your number of page hits is going to fall like a lemming off a cliff.
108 votes

628 votes | Poll has closed

5 recs  |  565 comments

Comments

I say Matt Lynn is the next matt cassel

good OL, good weapons=pats

he’s only as good as his Ol and weapons

I don't disagree entirely

I’d rather blow our wad for Griffin.

which is exactly what you'd be doing
sounds good. Where do I sign up?
agree100%
rg3
Signing Matt Flynn will be great!!!

just so long as he comes with Aaron Rodgers to actually play QB for the Chiefs.

He's got more potential than Orton or Cassel by 100 miles.

That being said.. I’d still rather trade up and take a risk.

idiot, imbecile, moron, fool ... Anne Retart! come on, Tex, this isn't a speculative stock market, it's a football team
I’d still rather trade up and take a risk
And the same truths still hold.

Successful football teams take risks.
Playing it safe can get you there over a long long period of time, but if you wanna make a splash and ride the wave, you’ve got to take a risk.

but you have to be in a position that taking the risk pays off ... we're not there yet
sure we are

When Orton had his career day… that kind of QB play spread like wildfire across the rest of the team.
The line looked good, the run game looked good.. everyone was catching a ball.. etc..

What if we had a QB with the potential to play at that level consistently.. instead of just once in a blue moon, like Orton has done in his career?

We’re there. We just have to be willing to take a shot.

yeah because as we know the rest of our team is consistent like the Packers all were waiting on is Rodgers to come along
I'll take a flawed offense with a true franchisee QB

over an offense with no flaws, exept the lack of a franchise QB.. 10 times out of 10

yeah so what do we do while we are waiting on that one player to save the franchise while wasting the prime years of our other talents
keep taking shots at that one player until you find him, cause we arent going much of anywhere without him
The only negative I see with trading up is that it will probably cost the team Dwayne Bowe....

Romeo Crennel Head Coach
Josh McDaniels – OC
Brandon Lloyd – Bowe’s replacement
A million picks and Dwayne Bowe – RGIII
Defensive Coordinator -???

While exciting, the thought of Josh McDaniels on the team makes me ill. I think this was what Haley was pointing at.

If you replace RGIII with Matt Flynn this dream really makes me want to vomit.

this thought makes me want to cry ... or something
Josh McDaniels – OC
I just hate that idea

period. McHoodie can stay far away from KC…maybe he’ll be the new HC in St Louis.

You're going get a nasty note, just like i did
No he's not =P

Post Series Title: Ramblings of an Idiot
I call myself an idiot, and give everyone else the chance to do the same in every poll I put on a post.
I post these weekly.
Anne Retart is an inside Arrowhead Pride joke that goes back a few years.

Upamtn and I have an ongoing back and forth that spans 3 years. We both mess with each other, and it’s well known on the site.

If it were someone that joined the site 6 days ago that I hand’t built a report with and was posting an actual insult… as opposed to sarcastic commentary It might be different. But upamtn is way too old for anyone to take him seriously.

right, I'm way too ... heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy waitjustaminutehere!
It's called a repore.
It's still spelled "report"

and pronounce “re pour”

horse hockey
both of ya are wrong ...

rapport

pronounced ruh-PORE

yeah this is correct

Ha ups, you still make me laugh though

Laura Scudders ... REMEMBER!
Yes you are correct.

I knew his was wrong and didn’t look it up.

I'm never wrong

I just chose to leave out the silent ‘p’ on principal.. and only include the one that’s actually pronounced.

Yeah I am never wrong either. Just sometimes short on being right.
you mean on "principle"

“principal” is the head admin at a school .. “principles” are what you and I lack

hahaha omg please stop
I mean exactly what I said

I was standing ON a PRINCIPAL when i typed that…
Sheesh…

overpaid bastards, all of 'em
Grammar Nazi

Many UPS! I enjoy all of my Chiefs’ news with a side of spell and grammar check

please don't use the term "nazi" around me ...

I lost about 6,000,000 distant cousins to them … it’s not something I take “lightly”

Grammar Douchebag then?
thank you!

I do appreciate the honesty …

Actually...

Isn’t it spelled rapport?

a little late to the party?

Hey I think it is spelled rapport by the way…

Oops...

Missed the correct spelling up above….

It is all good... all in fun.
yeah, rapport

my bad

The streets are littered with QB's that have shown more potential than Orton and Cassel...

I want a QB that has more potential than Manning, Brady, Elway, Montana, Marino, Aikman, Bradshaw, Dawson by a few feet.

Todd Blackledge!
At least Todd Blackledge gave Kansas City something to complain about...

Almost three decades later we are still complaining about the same bust. It is time to try again. I don’t really care how the Chiefs get a QB, but they need one and the one they go with needs to perform well.

now we're complaining about a different bust (Cassel)

bottom line is that we have too many holes, esp on offensive line, to make it pay off … look what happened to David Carr … dude, we can’t punch it in from the 1 yard line

fix the line, finish building the foundation and THEN do the rest … you want a flashy, shiny new car that goes 200 mph, awesome! you forget it needs a frame, wheels and axles, brakes, etc

This team could have the best OL in the NFL and not get anywhere without a QB and a defense

I know, I have watched it happen…

the defense is pretty much there ...

and a QB goes only as far as the OLine takes him

This oline isn't that far away Ups

There are some good pieces there and I seem to remember wanting to build the line last year by replacing B-Rich with a certain someone in the first round.

The team is a mess, but with some solid moves they can really move forward. Unfortunately, with the wrong moves it could be a disaster.

We shall see…

yep

The O line is not as bad as Ups believes it is.
1 solid pick up at guard or tackle and we’re better than 1/2 the league.

I think a lot of it was scheme too

We were being outclassed on blitz packages all season and the players don’t seem to know there assignments very well…

Leaving in guys like Becht, McCluster, O’connell and Pope to block players they have no business blocking and not taking advantage of McClain’s skills.

Along with a OC, we need a good OL Coach to take this line to the next level IMO…

well see ... I think we need OG, likely RT and more TE

Dex is a scatback and quick but not a great blocker (who’s supposed to be teaching him that stuff … Carthon?) Becht, OConnell and Pope are all TE’s (and right now I’m seriously drooling for Dwayne Allen in the 2nd but he’ll likely go in the first (and I want DeCastro more than I wanted Sherrod and Spoon put together) …

seriously, you guys need to check the draft thread (huge grin)

so, will Norv get the axe or will it be Smith? personally I think Smith deserves it more than Norv, but if he’s cut loose I wouldn’t mind him as OC … just please, anyone but McHoodie

Smith has deserved the axe since the days of Marty...

I’m talking about who ever decided to have our tight ends line up at h-back and block in the backfield…ugh.

Norv Turner deserves the boot, but I will be happy if they keep him.

I’ll be making my draft rounds soon…

Bigtime

Smith is a scoundrel.

The only glaring need on defense is a QB that can move the damn ball.
I've seen LOTS of QB's that can move the damn ball on our defense =)
We did...

back in 2003 or 2004. We won our first 10 games, and then went 3-3. We made Trent Green look like Tom Brady, and Priest Holmes look like Barry Sanders. We had a first round bye, hosted the Colts, and only lost because of a fluke fumble by Priest after about a 60 or 70 yard run. Only playoff game in history with NO PUNTS.

I just saw a pattern here...never draft / hire a Todd....

Watched the ESPN thing on Marinovich the other night (saw the unraveling in real time back then)…

Todd Haley (no need to say more)

Todd Blackledge (yup…again)

Yikes on Toddsville…NO MORE TODDs Pioli!!

You may have something there.

After all, “Tod” is the German word for “dead,” and that is what our Todds have turned ou to be.

rather "tot" but it's close enough LOL
It's been a while since my last German lesson.

You’re right, “tot” is dead; “tod” is death. Either way, it’s too close a connection for me.

NOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!

alright, with THAT out of the way …

you ARE my Favorite Idiot, just so you know, Tex, because i do want you to feel better about our relationship the team moving forward to 2012, welcome aboard The DeCastro Train … ticket, please!

This is a drunk man saying this

Stop getting other peoples free agents and draft your own. That’s how you build and sustain your franchise.

agreed, you lush!
Lush, no!

Connoisseur of fine alcoholic beverages

Official All Time Taste Tester for every small batch bourbon on the planet.
Yeah!

Let’s draft some free-agents!

It just might work... the rest of the league would never see it coming.
Matt Flynn = Kevin Kolb

Had a couple good games vs teams who had no game tape on them.
Don’t believe the Hype.

Now if y’all will excuse me, I have to go watch Russell Wilson do his damn thing.

he needs to hurry, only 5 minutes left to tie
bah! damned funble ...
Eric Berry Over hyped????

c’mon man

he's probably overhyed this year...cause he went down with injuries
With the way people talk about him, you'd think he was Ed Reed and Troy Palamalu rolled into one.

When in reality… he’s a 1 year player that played every down, but did very little that would considered spectacular. Tomas had more picks, and was drafted the same year.

He’s a good player. I don’t take that away from him. He’s a good player with a metric shitload of upside, but at this point in his career he doesn’t have the resume to match his hype.

Trade him away then.

Mortgage our future for a college QB that’s never taken an NFL snap. That sounds good. It’s not like Eric Berry is, you know, good or anything. He’s just a one year guy that played every snap, and the DC built his friggin game plan around him before he went down.

Oh, yeah, and that TE out of Iowa. He stinks, too. It’s not like the offense missed him at all. Throw him in the mix. Plus a couple first round picks, and maybe we could land a QB that has a skill set entirely different than our “offense.” Sounds good to me.

Reading comprehension is a skill worth having

Your sarcastic quote:

It’s not like Eric Berry is, you know, good or anything. He’s just a one year guy that played every snap,

My quote, from the post above yours that you are responding to:

He’s a good player. I don’t take that away from him. He’s a good player with a metric shitload of upside, but at this point in his career he doesn’t have the resume to match his hype.

At what point did I say he wasn’t a good player, or that he wouldn’t become a dominate one, or that I’d think for a cool second of trading him? I made a simple and completely ACCURATE statement… There is a lot more hype concerning how good of a player Berry is (present tense..‘IS’, not ‘will be’) … than Eric Berry has actually shown us on an NFL field to this point in is career. What’s sooooo damn terrible about that statement? It’s true, after all.

It's true that he's received that hype from some

But you make it seem as if it runs rampant, which I don’t think it does. He WAS a replacement for Troy and Ed in the pro-bowl. What’s that make him, at least according to the votes… A top 5 or 6 safety in the league?

He’s probably getting a little less hype than those guys, which seems fair to me.

"those guys"

aren’t getting hype.
as per the definition of hype that I’m refering too.

Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising or promotional material:

Those other players are getting respect for what they’ve already done in the league. People count on them to play at that level, because they’ve done it before.

Berry has not. It’s hype when their talking about Berry. Hype is not a bad word. I do not use it to slander Berry in any way. But the fans have attributed a lot more to Berry than he has yet to prove.

Kinda like RG3, or Andrew Luck…. at this point… it’s all hype… no substance.

It's absolutely nothing like RG3 or Luck

They haven’t played a snap in the NFL.

Berry has a good rookie season under his belt.

So I guess it just depends on how you quantify the 'hype'.

I think it’s well-deserved. He makes this defense a top 10 defense, all else with standing, imo.

It might be true, as opinions go.

My opinion happens to be that Eric Berry is damn good, and will be for a lot longer than Troy Polamalu (injuries) and Ed Reed (old), so I’ll stick with the one year guy that plays every down, hopefully, next year.

I dont disagree with that opinion.

What’s difficult to understand about that.
I think Eric Berry is going to be a great player.
But he’s not a great player yet. He’s a pretty good young player that has a lot of potential.

hmmm
back when

back when the chiefs drafted berry there was some hyp about how good he was or could be so on….. some said he was going to me average and the chiefs should draft some one else… this is no different then a QB take the risk and move on

I have to believe you are just trying to spark some debate

Berry, overhyped? Come on, man. He had a very very good rookie year, showing vast improvement through the entirety of the year, and was cut short in his sophomore year from a cheap (likely illegal next season) block.

I refuse to debate with an idiot :-)

It's true

He had a pretty good year, but still led the NFL in TD’s allowed. He did improve, but overall he is more sizzle than substance….but it was a rookie year and I thought he was the best player on the field in the playoff game. He’ll only improve.

exactly

He had a very good year, and a ton of potential for growth. His future looks promising, but he hasn’t done anything to earn the accolades as of yet.

What accolades is he being given, other than his pro-bowl nod as a replacement

And the hype that he makes this defense a lot better, particularly over his replacements?

he's been anointed on AP for one.
and well deserved

He is our first top ten pick of the last couple decades that was actually living up to the hype for a short while.

Can we enjoy it?

Geez… idiot!

I think TC is just hyping up the hype a bit too much :-)
of course...
who are you calling an idiot?

oh wait … got it, carry on! :-)

I've had people argue with me that Berry > Charles.
I completely see what you are saying.

I think he’s a good player with a lot of potential. The problem was more that the dropoff from him to McGraw/Langford/Washington was HUGE!

and that's an issue of lack of depth ... damn that Pioli!
The only accolades I would say he was given worth any real discussion

was his voting the top 100 players by his peers in his rookie year. Every other “accolade” is just opinion on how well he is going to develop, which most think will be into a great player. Hard to deny that

You had me until you brought up Matt Flynn

Why invest in another mediocre QB (after watching the Pack vs Det game, that’s how I see him)?

I’d rather take my chances with a medically cleared Peyton than Matt freakin’ Flynn.

Peyton has 5 strikes against him.

1-3 : neck surgeries
4: age
5: crazy insane contract

Flynn has 1 strike against him
1: Hasn’t played enough games for anyone to really know what he is.

That is a pretty big strike...

and there aren’t a lot of backups that go onto have success in recent NFL history.

Even with Cassel you had a whole season to diagnose, do you really want to get back into that boat with Flynn? He is going to command a huge contract to the highest bidder. I don’t believe that team will be the Chiefs.

Flynn is backing up a top three QB in the NFL with a prolific offense, I don’t think that will translate well going to the no touchdown scoring Chiefs.

ANY rookie QB we draft from the first round all the way to an undrafted free agent will require the same 'whole season'

… if not longer… to diagnose.
It wasn’t different with Cassel, Cam Newton, Jamarcuss Russel, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana… or anyone.. and it wouldnt be any different with Flynn. (Hell, Manning was terrible as a rookie… so was Aikman… terrible)

My first choice would be to move up in the draft for Luck/Griffin……
But if I have to choose between Flynn (player that’s never started a season, is young, has a good arm, and potential) VS. Cassel/Orton (players that have had MORE than enough chances to prove they aren’t going to be something special as a franchise QB) …. I’ll take the back up, and build my team around him.

At some point the team has to take major risk on a guy with a ton of upside and build the team around them. They have to have a consistent OC and scheme and roll the dice on a guy they believe can be the future. That guys is NOT Orton/Cassel, and I don’t believe that guy is Peyton ‘broken neck’ Manning either. Flynn is NOT my first choice, but Orton is close to my last.

Yeah the options are limited in KC at QB.

liking choosing the next American president.

Matt Flynn is your backup plan… I get that. However, I just don’t think he will ever be a good starter in this league. Nor do I think the Chiefs and Scott Pioli will go in that direction.

Did you see Flynn

LAST year? He did not look so good IIRC…

Regarding point #5

If he’s released there will not be a crazy big contract. I’m pretty sure whoever signs him is going to do so with a fairly reasonable, but incentive laden contract based on playing time.

As for age, I don’t care about that. He was easily a top-3 QB in the NFL last season, even at his old age. Peyton’s greatness is in his ability to read a defense & adjust…he’s not losing that. And don’t forget, other than this neck issue he’s as much an Iron Man as you’re going to find in the NFL. If the neck is healthy there’s no reason he can’t play at a high level for another 3-5 years.

As for the surgeries, yeah that’s the big deal…time will tell if he’s recovered. Is it worth the risk? IMO, yes.

I don't think the Colts will release him.

But I do think that they’ll try to trade him.. I asked some of my friends last Sunday whether they’d give this year’s one and next year’s one for him. Not one of them hesitated for a minute. Yes. All day.

If QB is what’s keeping us from greatness, why wouldn’t we try to get the greatest who ever played? If he’s injured, i expect Pioli (and the rest of the league) to find that out through due diligence. If he’s not injured, Peyton Manning in KC equals Super Bowl. Next year.

I'd still take

Peyton.

Can you freaking imagine him behind center, lobbing the ball to Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Moeaki, and Lloyd? And when he gets bored, he can chuck it to Dex or Charles. It’d be like Montana, only better, and with a LOT more weapons. What did Montana have? The Spiderman? That was about it…

and then Richardson mis-times a blitzer

and Peyton takes a hit and his head simply POPS off his neck because his neck vertebrae are all fused together and he cant spin his head around to see the rush coming, or bend his next forward before his skull impacts the turf.

Wow

That was Mortal Kombat graphic.

Peyton was "medically cleared" when

Indy signed him to 5 yrs. at $90 mil

Kinda destroys all confidence you might have in the guy, doesn't it
So he was fine, then he regressed?
no, he was medically cleared, signed a huge contract... and then went in for more surgeries...

So much for being cleared medically

Defense is fine. Sign 1 or 2 FA

OL, OL, and more OL. Joe Flacco is barely better than our QBs. A line and a stout D can win in this league. Even the most dominant defenses can’t stop the best offenses anymore. Just ask the Vegas favorites to win it all GB, NE and NO.

Also I think Belcher has been fine and Berry is in no way overhyped. Who hypes him? Only us because we know how good he is.

I do love your weekly articles though, I just disagreed with a few points this week!

finally, someone who is NOT an idiot

other than myself, that is …

not that it would hurt to grab more depth on Defense … S, ILB, DT, CB maybe … but yes. OLine, OLine, OLine … and TE … RB depth, that other position, what is it? oh yeah, QB …

I agree with you about OL, OL and then some,

but look at what we did to the Packers. I still believe in defense too. I just happen to think the same way you do; we only need a few more pieces on that side of the ball.

I agree with...

the secondary play greatly improved down the stretch, and the coaches should be credited for some of it…..I think Houston is going to pleasantly suprise everyone. Belcher is only a backup (IMO) which means we could use another stud LB. The big disappointment is going to be the QB situation. They hardly ever splash the pot or do anything outside the standard manual, so they will probibly keep Orton to compete with Cassell, which neither is championship material. If they are our Trent Dilfer, then we must present a raven caliber defense. With our WR’s and RB’s, all we need is someone to man up and take control of the game. Unfortunately, champion caliber QB’s dont grow on trees.

Eric Berry was in the pro-bowl, if we're just talking accomplishments...
Please don't use pro-bowls as evidence of how good someone is.
He asked for accomplishments...

Does that not go on a resume? I believe so.

not as a replacement...

that’s a Cassel accomplishment

As a rookie, in a division with Brian Dawkins and Eric Weddle

And how many other quality players.. Patrick Chung of New England, Jairus Byrd in Buffalo…

It’s an accomplishment.

Okay, I'll give you that.

But then I have to agree that 2010 was Cassel’s Pro Bowl year, and that just seems, well, a low bar.

Sorry, read that as you stating him making the pro-bowl was proof that he is not overrated.
I AM SO HAPPY to be a Chiefs fan

For 23 years, I’ve cheered, clapped, jumped, screamed, bashed and celebrated the team I love most in the NFL. I was also one of those that saw optimism when Clark hired Pioli. 3 years later, I’m reflecting on the ups and and downs all of us Chiefs die-hards endured, and came to this conclusion:

Chiefs is awesome, friggin hands-down best organization in the N F L because
1- how can you not be ecstatic with a team that’s mediocre and below average
2- how can you not be happy with a team that gets into the playoff once every 5-6 years
3- how can you complain when the team is unable to go past the 1st round of playoff
4- where else can you find a head coach that disrespect the game and opposing HC by not shaking hands and pointing a finger in their face (true professionalism)
5- where else can you find a mediocre career backup being thrown a fat 6-year multi-million contract to become the face of your franchise only to do what a 2-million a year backup QB would have done (ie. Damon Huard)
6- how can you not love a team that believes in finding the right 53 even if its cast-offs that other team won’t settle for as backups
7- where else would you find a team that passes on a guy named Rich over a guy name Elvis (Gannon would later become NFL MVP and carry his team to the Superbowl)
8- where else can you find an incumbent GM that would possibly follow the foot steps of his predecessor by sticking with his multi-million QB when evident point to otherwise

HELLLLLLLLL NO!!! If Matt Cassel is retain to be the franchise and McDougal comes on board be it OC or HC… I’m gonna be an ex-Chiefs fan

stands up

very well said …. wish i had the cash to buy the Chiefs would give you a sky box…..

Wow this speaks volumes

and is very close to where I stand. I do not think I can ever find another team to root for in the NFL, but it may just have me done as a NFL fan. SO hard though when I know no other feelings for my entire life

We should start focusing on 2nd/3rd round QBs

As much as we’d like it to, does anyone really think RG3 is going to happen? There are going to be so many teams bidding on him, the cost will surely end up greatly inflated. Look at what the Falcons gave up for Julio Jones and then scale it for the draft spot (a 2 vs. a 6) and the importance of the position.

I could definitely see us taking a shot at Nick Foles in round 2 or Kellen Moore in 3/4.

Go big, or go home.

29 years without a first round QB.
It’s been too long.

It's about finding talent, why do you care so much about round number?

I’m not going to be upset or look down on a guy taken in a later round.

First round QB's are 50/50 prospects...

…and amazingly enough tend to be the more ‘talented’ QBs in the draft. (Funny how that works out)

Beyond the first round… your odds for success go south like a duck in winter.

If you’re going to go all in for a possible franchise QB… the first round player is your best shot at success. These guys go in the first round for a reason. Tom Brady is the exception, not the norm.

I'm just not sold on Griffin.

I don’t think he’s the slam dunk that others seem to. I would have been all for Barkley if he had come out.

Draft pick location is not a great indictor of future success

Two guys have broken Marino’s passing record this year. Neither was a first round pick:
Drew Brees (2nd)
Tom Brady (6th)

The list of first round QB busts is too long to publish.

Then there are outliers like Kurt Warner.

Orton’s got a large sample set to analyze. His body of work has been accomplished with some pretty horrible OL’s and receivers, with the exception of Brandon Lloyd. I think you look at what pieces you can put around him and then decide if as a result he’ll improve to the level you desire.

All people who think a first round pick at QB is a good move and somehow achieves you getting a “franchise QB” – go back and look at the list of first round busts. It’s easy to compile yourself. Pull the list of Heisman winners and first round picks at QB from the last 5-10 years and list all the ones you wouldn’t want right now.

I've looked at the list of first round hits and busts

As well as the list of all Super Bowl QB… and winners.
As well as the list of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round QB…
As well as all 5th-7th rounders
As well as all the undrafted ones….

Guess what? A first round QB has a 50/50 shot of being a bust… and the further you go down that list the worse the odds get. I can cite 2 or 3 examples that buck the trend just as well as you can, but the fact remains: First round QB’s are 50/50 and thats a shitload better odds than you get in any other round.
All you people that think you have just a good of a chance ending up with a franchise QB by waiting til a later round, or trading for someone that WASN’T a first round pick — go back and look at all the Super Bowl winning QB’s..and in which round they were initially drafted. It’s easy to compile for yourself. Pull the list of 2nd round – undrafted QB from the last 5-10 years and list the ones you WOULD want (cause the ones you wouldn’t want will fill the phone book)

Texas Chief,

Many of your points are valid, however, your position on giving up any draft positions or needed personnel to get an unproven commodity makes no sense to me. Of course, in the long run, it’s all about good judgement and talent evaluation.

Im not willing to give upjust any draft position or talent

I’m willing to give up a DT that doesnt fit our scheme, but still has value…
…a WR that CAN be good, but has dropsy issues and an expired contract (tag and trade)
…a #2 corner that has brilliant games, and games where he never seems to turn his head around to find the ball

…the #1 draft pick that we’d have to use anyway to pick whatever player we take in the first round
….Next years #1 pick, which you’re likey to spend on Manning any decent QB that you go out and trade for anyway.

As far as I’m concerned… thats a cost of a 1st round pick next year, and a bunch of other stuff that we don’t use correctly… or have the QB to throw to anyway…or can be replaced in the 2nd-7th rounds… + the pick this year we would have used anyway if the QB we wanted fell to us.

It’s just not that high of a cost for the team to take their first chance in 30 years on actually developing OUR OWN possible franchisee QB…. and coupling him with a new OC/HC that will commit to building the team AROUND the QB, instead of trying to plug an over the hill / medoicre QB after the fact.

It’s sooo little of a cost (on a chance) that if push came to shove… I’d sweeten the pot with this years 3rd, or next years 2nd if I had to.

Tell the rams… they STILL get to pick in the top 10-11 in the draft. They get a receiver for Bradford to throw to, and a DT that can play an under tech and rush the passer OR a CB that’s better than anyone on their team…. (2 players, not all 3… pick their 2)….. + an extra #1 pick next year in return for RG3. - If they get a better offer.. toss in the 3rd rounder, or next years 2nd rounder….. It’s a great deal for both sides IMO.

Texas Chief, I think we have different goals influencing our opinions.

You seem to be willing to sacrifice short-term gain for “potential” long-term gains. I use the word “potential” because, as has been stated by many on AP, no draft is a guaranty. I’d rather fly a Boeing 707, than an aircraft that has never been proven. I’m sure my opinion is motivated, to a great extent, by my age and long suffering wait for a return to the SB by the Chiefs. Although it has been way too long, I just don’t feel that the sacrifices necessary for a 1st round, unproven QB, are worth those sacrifices. I’m convinced that re-signing Orton, Bowe, Carr, replacing the OC, replacing the weak links on the offensive line, retaining RAC, and shoring up the backups, will take the Chiefs back to and winning the SB.

and what piece of evidence from the Chiefs past would lead you to that conclusion?

The only Superbowl the team ever won was with a 1st round QB (They got him from the Steelers).

Playoff wins? whens the last time we had one of those?
How many years has it been since we’ve taken a chance on building the team around a possible 1st round franchise QB? (29)

How did making due with cast offs, has beens, and guys that were Good Enough… (because they were known quantities) work out for us in the last 29 season? That’s the path we should continue on? Go get the next Marty Schottenheimer or Dick Vermeil… and build the team to try and win without the most important player on the offensive side of the ball?

I agree, we have different goals. I want the Chiefs to develop a franchisee QB and build an offense around him that can be perennial winners, and stack up play off appearances/win for years to come. The only way were going to do that is to get the right guy at QB.

You want to keep patching up the gaping wound we have at the QB spot with a box of ace bandages, because ace bandages have always been a steadily, yet not at all exciting medical solution for ever. Sure, we could try that newfangled medical procedure (dissolve-able stitches/a franchise QB) .. but why take the risk on aiming for greatness when we can settle for “good enough”

I don’t want 1 or 2 years of just better than mediocre performance out of a retread QB that hasn’t ever been considered an elite player in the NFL. I’ve seen 29 years of that in a row. I’m willing to enter into an actual offensive rebuild NOW.. as long as it’s centered on a first round QB that the team can grow around.

Well said acacia!

One of the few intelligent posts that I’ve read on the subject. First round picks of a player at any positiion are not guaranteed to be worth the price. It’s a hit and miss proposition, as has been shown time and time again. As die-hard, long-suffereing Chiefs’s fans, we can only hope that Hunt and Pioli make the right decisions going forward.

And

we were so successful with that pick, weren’t we?

What are you willing to give up for RG3? 2 #1’s? 2#1’s and a 2 and a 3? Bowe and 2 #1’s?

so we took at QB in the first round one 29 years ago, and it didn't work

so we should never take one again?

We should just keep on doing what we’ve been doing for the last 29 years since then (that would be losing every playoff game we’re lucky enough to get to, which isn’t very many… and in general being a football team that averages out to a .500 club) ?

I'm just saying

don’t trade away the farm for a coin flip. They did this on Mike and Mike the other day, and went through #1 QB picks and how successful they have been in the NFL. It’s basically a coin flip; about 50% of the time they are successful.

When we have other needs to fix, i.e. TE, RT, depth at S and LB…you can’t trade away the farm on one position.

there will ALWAYS be "other needs"

Every single year until the end of time there will be other needs.

There will NEVER be a year where the other needs are all met, and we are free to trade away draft picks to take a chance on a QB…. Ever….ever….ever….

Sooner or later you have to bite the bullet and put you money in the pot. It’s a gamble, but if I could get the same 50/50 odds in Vegas as we can get on a 1st round QB… I’d be there every week with my paycheck trying for the big payday.

to add to your point

There will ALWAYS be no position more paramount to winning than QB. Unless they ban the forward pass, you should be aiming to have an elite QB. Once you achieve that then start focusing on the other needs

While I'm not on the trading up for Griffin or Luck bandwagon...

I’m also not on the 2nd or 3rd round QB bandwagon. Those guys drop that far because something is wrong with them. At some positions in the NFL you can get away with that. Not QB. I think the best thing to do at this point is hold onto either Orton or Cassel, maybe grab Flynn in FA if he’s not too expensive, and hope a guy like Barkley is there next year.

They drop that far because

FRANCHISE QB’s simply aren’t that easy to find. All you guys seem to think, gee, just trade up and take the best QB available. It’s not like every team is always looking for that guy!

I'm pretty sure I just said that.

I’m not for trading up, but I’m also not for picking a QB just because they need one.

they are very very hard to find in the best of years.

And they are downright IMPOSSIBLE to find if your team goes 30 freeking years without even trying.

So your planning on zero or no wins next year?
Barkley or a guy like him.

I’d be more in favor of trading up to draft a QB if:

1) They had another year of picks behind them, and thus, a better and more complete roster (thus making me more willing to give up picks).

2) There’s a QB there I really like. I’m not on the Griffin bandwagon and I think Luck will cost WAY too much if he can even be had at all.

From what I'm seeing right now

in the Fiesta Bowl, the saying should more have been “Luck is Suck” not “Suck for Luck…” just sayin.

If teams are really dumb enough to go along with that...

I’d be happy to take him off their hands.

Yeah like Drew Brees
We need a quarterback......no doubt about it.
nah ... I mean, technicallly we still have Palko, right?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Take it back…quickly…PLEASE!

matt flynn

Has potential just like Kevin kolb, aj feeley, Jeff garcia. All these qb came from a great Andy Reid system, played well and then sucked it up when they were picked up from other teams.

At least he wouln't cost a 2nd rounder like Cassel did.
You guys watching Wheeden and Luck?

You wanna trade up for this crap? Bad pick by Luck on the sideline followed by Wheeden underthrowing a wide open guy by eight yards. Cassel is every bit as good as these two guys put together.

Hey, the only way to get ahead is to take a chance. NO's did with Brees.....

Whether we go for Manning, Flynn or a trade up for RGIII, the Chief’s have to take a chance or they will never be anything but mediocre. Fact.

Fact is, San Diego had Brees on their roster.

Do you think giving up on him was a good choice?

In retrospect, probably not. Their loss, NO's gain.
right, We'd be much better off to just keep doing what were doing.

History tells us the best possible chance to draft a dominate QB is take one of the first round guys.

BTW San Diego is just stupid… First Manning, (Eli), then Brees….
Traded away 2 superbowl winning QB’s… and stuck it out with the Crybaby Phyliss Rivers. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You can rip SD for a lot of things...

but rolling with Rivers as their QB really isn’t one of them. I can’t stand him, but the reality is he’s been a VERY good QB the last handful of years.

I most certainly CAN, and will continue to rip them for trading away

TWO Superbowl winning QB’s to stick with Rivers.

It takes more than one player to win a SB.

Other than Eli winning a SB, I don’t see any evidence that he’s a better QB than Rivers. In fact, I’d probably argue otherwise.

and Brees?
Clearly he's better than Rivers now.

But if you’re going to try to tell me you knew that before he went to NO, you’re lying.

no, I'm not lying.

I actually cheered when they traded away a 14-2 QB to play Rivers.
It was great news for the rest of the division.

Fair enough.

It’s pretty clear that Brees, while he was a good QB the last two years in SD, wasn’t anywhere near the player he has become since. I really can’t blame the Chargers for taking Rivers in the draft when Brees hadn’t done much of anything to that point. And I can’t fault them for letting Brees go after they had invested that high pick and that kind of money in Rivers. Clearly if they had known he would turn into this kind of QB, they would have traded Rivers instead. But again, we are back to hindsight, which as we all know, is 20/20.

They let him go due to money, not because they thought Rivers was more skilled.

Brees looked like he might never be the same.

It was a good decision for both parties… In retrospect, they probably should have kept Brees and Marty. Though Rivers has been a good QB. It is Turner that is holding them back, and they wouldn’t have won a Super Bowl with Brees either with Turner making the calls IMO.

Thank you.

That’s all I’m trying to say here.

Really?

You think that NFC East is a cakewalk compared to the AFC West?

How about the fact that Eli is in the playoffs, again, and Rivers is not?

YAY for logic

=P

This season?

Yeah I agree Eli was better than Rivers. But the handful of seasons before that? I’d definitely say Rivers. And I wasn’t inferring anything about either division.

Let's be honest here.

The only reason they let him go is because they had sunk all that money into Rivers before Brees broke out. There’s really no comparison the situation in KC.

KC gave Matty Nice 65 million for 6 years.

That is some money.

Brees had just gone 14-2. Not sure what it takes to “break out” if 14-2 won’t get it.

Rivers was already there before that season.
Yeah, as Brees back-up.

and QB in waiting. In the aftermath, the HC was gone, Brees wins a Super Bowl in New Orleans, and every year San Diego goes tits up in the playoffs or misses them altogether in a division nine wins will get you in…

My point is that's not a comparable situation to what KC is dealing with.

It’s pretty easy to see that the reason Brees was allowed to walk is because they had Rivers and his huge contract sitting on the bench.

which is why Peyton Manning wont last longer than 1 season with Luck on the bench

Of course by then… we might all know just how much Peyton will be effected by his neck.

Peyton is lucky to last longer than 1 more season

3 neck surgeries in two years? Sheeeeit

yep. Personally.. I don't think he ever returns to ANYTHING even resembling pre-surgery form.

Especially behind the Colts line.
Manning has always had stone feet.
He doesn’t scramble. He’s a pure pocket passer… with an amazing brain for the game.

He is also to good too count out completely...

Plus he is tough… I’m sure he was dinged up for a lot of those games during his streak.

I wouldn’t bet against him making a comeback at a high level.

It's not really about being tough for him anymore.

It’s about being physically able to take a hit.

That, and the fact that

patients that get that surgery complain of weakness and numbness in their forearms and hands for YEARS. Not a big deal for a QB, right?

This isn't a normal guy though

This is a 6’5" superstar QB with a rocket arm…

Gene and Tammy Average Joe down the street may struggle a bit more long term.

I’m not saying he won’t have issues, but I would never bet against the guy… It is a neck injury with some of the best technology and doctors money can by working on it.

It is not that far fetched…

No one is saying it can't happen.

Everyone is just saying they wouldn’t bet draft picks and money that it will.

ok, so you wouldn't bet against him

But would you plunk your paycheck and your teams future down ON him…. sight unseen…. ZERO games removed from the surgeries?

a 36 year old QB coming off 3 neck surgical procedures inside 18 months, (in the pre season) that never recovered to a point of being able to take snaps in practice before the end of the season.

How many people are lining up to place that bet without seeing the guy take a few NFL level hits FIRST? I can tel you, I’m not one.

If the Chiefs did trade for him, he would have to pass several physicals before it went through.

I would listen to Peyton and if the deal was good I would pull the trigger.

Your talking about an offense with Charles and Manning… Not to mention potentially Bowe, Moeaki, McCluster, Breaston, Baldwin and who ever the Chiefs pick up in the draft and FA.

That is something you have to consider, every time. The line in Indy wasn’t that great, it was Peyton’s ability to read a defense and get rid of the ball. Our line would look all pro with Manning back there. Especially with these receivers…

I think this guy will be good to go for a couple seasons and we will all say, “Maybe we should have got him.” When he goes to a team and starts winning.

I don’t want to be saying what if and while you are gambling on three game Matt Flynn, I would be rolling the dice on Peyton Manning bringing a world title to this town like Joe Montana almost did in 1993 when everyone said he was done because of his elbow.

That line wasn't all-pro.

But they could pass block pretty darn well.

That is my point, with Manning back there

everyone looks good.

Think of all the times he throws touchdown passes/ completions only to get creamed at the last second. Most other QB’s are taking those sacks…

I don't think he automatically makes this line look good.

Richardson is still Richardson in pass pro.

well most likely Richardson is washing windows next season anyway...
thats what they said last off season
We all know they are always right...

It’s they… come on Tex.

good thing he had a GOOD OLine to give him time to look and throw the ball, huh!
Peyton was a master a getting the ball away quick.
Peyton knew how much time he had behind whatever oline he was playing with that year

and adjusted HIS game to getting the ball out based on the amount of time he would likely have.

Not the other way around.

Tough, and takes so few sacks.

And rarely a hard one.

Sent me on a tangent.. Is it just me or does Tamba seem to whiff a lot?

i do not think so

i understand what you are saying you just seem him getting to the ball carrier first and some times he is going the other way and does not have the angle to make the tackel the ball carrier sees him coming… side not i wish he would of sack tebow yesterday

He gets caught by the 'shrug' too often for my liking

Needs to wrap around the waste more consistently, I think.

pursuit is not his strong point
My point is that it takes a risk to get a franchise, elite QB. No's took that

chance and it turned out to be a great, great move. Many other teams, KC included didn’t not take the chance and they are not where NO’s is.

correct. Gotta get your money in the pot in order to win the hand.
I'm not disputing any of that.

Simply re-iterating that KC’s current situation is not similar to SD’s was with Brees.

OK, I won't pretend to say Cassel is Brees

and Orton is Rivers, but

KC has an injured “starter” at the end of the season, and Orton (while not under contract) could be a QB in waiting…

so it’s not entirely dissimilar.

So they have 2 QB's and one is injured.

That’s pretty much where the similarities end.

We're not talking about what SD did. We're talking about the fact that NO's went after

Brees even knowing that he had had a serious shoulder injury. For example, how many other teams, including KC, did not pursue Brees.

Actually he was.

He asked if SD giving up on Brees was a good choice. My point is that they had already drafted Rivers (and given him a large contract). KC’s current situation is not similar to that.

BTW, Flynn has been a winner at all levels. Look at his bio.
So has Tebow.

Next.

But Tebow still has not proven himself as a pro. Flynn has to a small degree, obviously

Manning has and RGIII is a major question. I’d actually prefer RGIII but he may be the hardest to get.

He's won more NFL games than Flynn.
I like Flynn's stats though...lol
yeah..

Let’s take a vote:
All those that think Tim Tebow has more potential as a QB in what has become a passing league respond “TEBOW” to this comment.

All those that think Flynn has more potential spend the next 3 days laughing your ass off at the people that respond TEBOW!

A very very very small degree, yes

couple of games and we’re crowning him.

What is the procedure and what would it take to get Flynn?
Flynn is a free agent.

Green Bay could franchise him or he can shop for a contract with any team. It’ll probably take in the range of 4 million. Cheaper than Matty Nice.

Green Bay won't franchise their back-up, btw.

My (guffaw) didn’t post…

It's not that anyone is falling for the "settle for a mediocre qb" trap.

It’s that it’s our best option at the moment. Heck, I’d even be for franchising Orton and keeping steady QB play for one more year.

And that's where were going to disagree

Our best option at the moment is to move up in the draft and take a risk.
It might cost us a couple #1’s and players … But we need to take the risk as a franchise.

TC, it appears that most of us think that Manning, even if we could get him, may not be the

best way to go. So, what is more realistic and makes the best sense 1) trading up to get RGIII or 2) going all out for Flynn?

Clearly Flynn is more realistic.
Flynn only makes sense if you dump Cassel AND Orton... and hand him the reigns.. no looking back, no safety net.

But it’s more realistic from a cost standpoint (draft picks, not money)

But if the Packers were to franchise OR transition tag Flynn… then I don’t touch him with a ten foot pole.
If we’re going to pay draft picks and a big contract… I’d rather pay even MORE draft picks/players for RG3…

but tha’ts just my opinion.

I am not for mortgaging other talent we could get for an unproven, potentially brittle young qb.
So, we never take the risk to get a potential elite, franchise QB? That

seems to be the reason we are where we are now.

yeah

pretty much says it

I'm not for taking that risk when I have serious questions about the QB prospect.
DING DING DING!!!

29 years of keeping on with keeping on… and never taking a risk at the most important position on the offense.

Brodie Croyle....

There’s your risk….

3rd rounder

whew! what a risk….
Imagine if he’d sucked ass… we’d have been held back to a decade by the cost of drafting him….

… hmmm.. NM… we were held back for a decade anyway.. even though he wasn’t a first rounder… just due to the fact we didn’t have a QB. (seems the cost was the same for a 3rd rounder as a 1st rounder we’d have to trade away more picks to take)

I agree with you..

point was that the Chiefs HAVE taken some risk at that position over the years, and it’s been disastrous.

No taking a QB in any round that is not round 1 is not a risk.
I wouldn't go that far.

You are bypassing a possible contributor at another position. There is still risk, but it is minimized.

right, instead of a 3rd we MUST get FIRST rounder ...

Todd Blackledge!

oh, sorry guys …

Steve Fuller!

Oh please Todd Blackledge

SO swinging and missing twenty fucking years ago is reason to NEVER TRY AGAIN. Please, what a sorry ass excuse

My point would be, don't just get a QB to get a QB.

Get one you really like and are convinced is the guy. If that’s Griffin, then ok (I don’t think it is, but to each his own). I’m all for drafting to fill needs, but not at QB. At that position I’ll look to get a guy I’m sold on, not just someone who is rated highly.

And what I am saying

Is that thinking and logic is what has held this franchise from even winning a playoff game for the last 18 years

Ok, and drafting a QB to draft a QB is what got teams like...

the Lions and Texans guys like Joey Harrington and David Carr. I’m not against drafting a QB in round 1, but I am against them drafting a guy like Tanneyhill just because he’s the next best QB on their board and they need a QB.

Oh no but it did get the Lions

Matt Stafford… soooo. My point is that fact that they may have failed they still knew the difference in the league was having and not having a franchise QB. And they now have one. Must be nice. But no we could just go with you plan and just keep on waiting 40 years until one FA backup may turn up to amount to something. Yeah that sounds great

And again, I'm not against taking a QB.

I just don’t want to take on because they need one. I want to take one because the front office is convinced he is going to be a great QB. Not because they don’t think Cassel is the answer.

I honestly think Griffin is the better prospect over Luck

I’m going to catch flack for that one I’m sure.

He isn’t the perfect size, but he can stand in the pocket without happy feet.
He can make all the throws.
He’s reasonably intelligent, and moves beyond his first read on a regular basis.
He’s a pocket passer WITH good ability outside the pocket.

Ha! I was waiting for this!

I’m sorry, but I don’t see how you take Griffin over Luck. His ceiling might be higher, but Luck’s value is as much in the height of his floor as that of his ceiling. He’s big, with a strong and accurate arm, plays in a pro-style offense, has been very productive, etc. Find me one hole in his game. If there is one, I haven’t seen it.

Griffin on the other hand has questions about his size and the offense he played in. Both of those are big questions for me.

BAM!

I got SHREDDED for stating Stanzi’s body size, college stats, and pro-style offense experience on this site…

after all, college resumes are insignificant in the NFL!! /sarcasm

Not sure what you are saying here.

Not much comparison between Luck and Stanzi.

except...everything you just said about luck also applies to Stanzi

size, arm, pro-style offense…. all the reasons you named him better than Griffin.

I’ll take Griffin over Luck if Im given the choice… but I’ll take EITHER one over Orton/Cassel/Stanzi/Flynn… without a seconds hesitation.

Did you really just compare Stanzi to Luck?

I’m sorry, but no. Not even close.

umm, no.. i didn't.

did you read what i said?

Yeah.

You just said everything I said about Luck applies to Stanzi. Maybe the 5 words I mentioned in some way do, but Stanzi is not even close to Luck as a prospect. In my opinion, Luck is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning.

Griffin has actually very good size

He is like 6’3" or something and 230 lbs

If Griffin is 185 I'd be surprised.

He’s a twig.

No he's not.

He’s like 6’2’’ and barely over 200 lbs. Though we’ll get the exact measurements at the combine.

Yep, listed 6'2" 220 lbs.

Doesn’t look that big.

He is way bigger than 200 lbs

check the stats on him and yes we will find out his true measurements at the combine

Right, because everyone's listed height and weight is correct.

I lied about both on my rosters in high school and college. You don’t think he wants pro teams to think he actually weighs 220?

Don't know what he wants, but

I’m 6’3" and 195, and I’m bigger than that dude.

except that Carr might have been pretty good if he wasn't playing behind a CRAPPY OLINE

hello?!? what do you think OUR issue is (QB aside) … OLine!

2 new players in 2 year on the line +a LT in the top half of the league.

Our O line isn’t as terrible as you make it out to be.

it WILL be if you throw away draft picks
and without a QB to lead the team

it wont matter how good the line is.. ever.

It’s a damn site easier to pick up a guard/rt in free agency, or the 3rd+ round of the draft that has a long career producing at an NFL level than it is to get a QB.

Worth the risk.

yeah, tell that to the Ravens ...

Dilfer was such a GREAT one, huh!

The Bucs drafted Trent Dilfer, not the Ravens.
my point is that the Ravens went to the Super Bowl with him

the Bucs went with that Hall of Famer Doug Williams …

the point? even an average QB can get you to the promised land given a good team

the real point...

The chances that a non-franchise QB sorrounded by a GREAT defense and a GREAT running game end up going deep into the playoffs are…..

….much much much lower than the chances of a GREAT qb and a mediocre line doing the exact same thing.

Especially the way the game has evolved in the last 10 years.

Start naming all your examples of mediocre QB’s in the Superbowl since (and including) Dilfer. I’ll start naming all the ‘real’ NFL QB’s that got there. We’ll see who’s list is longer.

I’m ALL IN for a dominate defense, but when it comes to offense QB> All

exception, not the rule
and Dan Marino went to how many Super Bowls?

one of THE greatest of all time …

y’all are so obnoxiously blind to the fact that it’s a TEAM sport you can’t think straight

yeah, it's the rest of us...

How long ago was it that Dilfer won a Superbowl?

How many more examples can you cite that have happened between then and now?

It’s a TEAM sport.. the offense and the defense and the special teams all have to work together and cover each others flaws.

The offense tends to go the way the QB goes, even more so in the modern game. You need a good to great defense… but you’ve also got to have an offense that can score the occasional point. – and the best way to achieve that is with a franchise QB.

The Chiefs have good receivers, a coupe good running backs, at least 1 good TE, and an offensive line that ranks in the top half of the league….

The BIGGEST glaring hole is the QB.

yanno, if we could score from 2 yds out we might have won this crappy division ...

but no, we have no push on the OLine … and no backup RB or TE … no depth, hell’s bells we had no backup QB … and you want all that to continue but by golly we MUST throw away draft picks for some rookie who’s less proven than Eric Berry!

talk about HYPE! more to the point, Tex: hypocritical! how DARE you go on and on and on about Berry and THEN turn around and propose the SAME THING that you originally deride!

two words come to mind …


BOY STOP!

How much of the Chiefs woes do you think were scheme

and how much do you think were players Ups?

this year?

and are you talking offense or defense? (defense isn’t completely blameless for this year’s mess)

and then too, do you account for injuries or not? lack of depth KILLED us … lack of OLine killed us that much more when Charles and Moeaki went down as we had no push or strength up the middle

scheme AND players killed us all the way around … hell, it was dead in the water when it started for all intents and purposes, and the first two games it was clear we weren’t going anywhere this year

now, we can sit around and point fingers, which helps nothing, or solve the issue (yeah, like what WE say makes a difference!) … here’s the thing: as you mentioned, not even Pioli could be so dumb as to blah blah blah … gotta tell ya, Pioli and his little War Games System is what got us into all this to begin with … and we’ve bought into it all along (how’s THAT make you feel!)

football is still football, no matter which way you slice it … and it’s still big guys beating each other up in the trenches long enough for the skill guys to do what they do best … without those big guys, you lose more than you win, it’s just that simple

give me a ball control offense and a dominating defense and I;‘ll win a lot more often than I’ll lose, guaranteed … and THAT gets you to the playoffs year after year

once you get there it’s as much luck and being hot at the right time as anything else … just get to the dance

a long winded way to not answer the question

Nice feet Ups, you can dance.

A lot of football is in the trenches with guys beating on each other (of course), but if they are being led by an idiot and instructed to do things like idiots.

Then they will have idiot results.

ok, how about this ...

Clark said he wants to model the franchise after the Steelers but then gets Pioli, Patriots “BillyBall” all the way

the Steelers? tehy do it year after year after year with a DOMINATING Defense and ball control offense … Big Ben? not elite by any means … he’s a bit above average and that’s all he is … look at the Steelers of the 70’s … same thing

now, you want SCHEME check the Bills of the 90’s … stout defense and yes, very good QB in Kelly, but they also had a KILLER ground game, not to mention a GENIUS in Levy

what did BOTH of those teams have in common? defense and the ability to move the ball … but moving the ball doesn’t necessarily mean “elite QB” … the Martyball teams we had in the 90’s moved the ball AND had the killer D’s as well … and guess what, we won 10 games year after year

I’ll take that anytime, all the time

He also fired his coach after three years

Not exactly the Pittsburgh way either…

Oh well, my point I was going to make is that a lot of this teams problems, at least on offense were coming from scheme and play calling.

The defense was handled better but tired off of the offenses woes and inability to stay on the field.

I am not so sure we need to many new players on the offensive line, because I watched so many plays develop with blockers out of position.

Especially when it came time to protect the qb or run the ball up the middle. Bill Muir and Haley designed plays with faulty blocking schemes IMO.

This team needs a new offensive structure, be it ball control, air coryell, whatever, but moving forward with McDaniels won’t get the lineman to fix their negative attributes they have learned in this garbage O IMO…

The right new coaches on offense are of dire necessity in KC.

I can agree with (most of) this ...

in retrospect, and looking at the difference in the last 3 weeks, I think we should lighten up on Muir … it’s been much better (smoother) w/o Haley, that much is clear

hell, the running game was working for awhile Sunday, it was all clicking til Bowe went down, actually …

improve the OLine, get Bowe in, a healthy Charles and a healthy Moeaki, a healthy Berry and Siler, too …

Im worried the Chiefs are going to hire

Josh M and call it good.

That is not the way to go IMO…

The Broncos game yesterday was a terrible game plan on offense, but Muir has looked slightly better. The problems on O are deeper than just him.

It needs to be completely retooled.

agreed, it is deeper ... and again, I think a good part goes to the weaknesses in the OLine

Lilja and Wiegs in partular …

omg, if Pioli keeps Cassel and bring in McHoodie I might have to call Vince and Vinny in Chicago, they’re with the Teamsters, you know …

Amen and Amen

Hudson looks good
Albert is a stud
Asamoah looks good
one more lineman and
4/5 ain’t bad…

They need a good coach.

Mike Solari anyone? Ha not really.

I like Solari

DeCastro if you please … that gets the interior set for a good while … then either 2nd or 3rd round RT or maybe FA …

now, a trade up that I’d make is to figure a way to get Kalil AND DeCastro … or, get DeCastro and Nicks (ain’t gonna happen, he’s staying with the Saints) but damn, I can dream

Dwayne Allen, TE (Clemson) and DeCastro … would help a lot there, even with BRich

You know what else they have in common?

Kelly and Rothlisberger were BOTH first round quarterbacks.

Kelly #3 over all, and Ben #11

Other notable first round QB’s picked by the steelers: Len Dawson, Terry Bradshaw

The Steelers have won more Superbowls than any other team in NFL history. And they won EVERY SINGLE ONE of them with a first round QB starting for the team. The Chiefs won their only Superbowl with a cast off Steerlers 1st rounder too.

The Chiefs have drafted TWO first round QB’s in the history of the franchise. Fuller in ’79 and Blackledge in ’83.

I agree, the Chiefs should be more like the Steelers. Great defense, good running game.. and a first round quarterback taken 6 times in 50 years. We’re only 4 first round QB picks away from being more like the Steelers.

Maybe we should take to this year...

EHhhheH

oh yay, Big Ben a 1st rounder!

so? he’s still not elite … that team is winning despite not having an elite top-of-the-line QB … go figure, huh!

doing what you claim can’t be done!

There O-line is also bottom feeding

terrible

But they do have good coaching
horrible play calls.

No reason we couldnt have been throwing on first down once or twice in that red zone.

Or maybe lining up in a spread to loosen the defense.
Or putting in Powe to lead block! (at least he would have seen the field).

I saw way to much of a return to Run, Run Pass, Punt play calling even if 1 of the runs was a RB screen pass every series.

Evidence: Bradford/Stafford

Without a decent O-line.. both of these 1st rounders suffered from injury bugs for YEARS. Stafford has only just recovered this season to realize his potential.

I am concerned that Bradford will suffer a horrible fate and re resigned to history as the most overpaid failure in leage history since Akili Smith of the Bengals :|

I had no faith in Bradford coming out of college anyway.

Feel free to look up the posts/comments from that offseason and read for yourself.

Bradford played under that stupid offense where he ran the team up to the line.. and the looked to the sideline while the coaches read the defense and signaled in the play for him to run.

He wasn’t able to make adjustments to the play call at the line, so the coaches did it for him. .. No surprise that he hasn’t been able do it in the NFL either.

29, not 20. 29.... almost 3 decades.

I mean, I know the team was butthurt by the results of the Blackledge pick…. but day-um…
29 years of butt hurt?
You’d think they would have bought a tube of lubricant and given it another shot by now.

Or how about

Chris Weinke, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Art Schlichter, Heath Shuler, Dave Klingler, Andre Ware, David Carr, Jamarcus Russell, Rich Campbell, Jim Druckenmiller, Rick Mirer, Cade McNown…just to name a few…

name as many as you want.

it’s a 50-50 chance of busting for a first round QB.
The further you head down the draft board.. the worse the odds get.
No one is saying a 1st rounder is a sure thing. It’s a risk….

But you’re never going to win, if you never try.

50/50 is too kind

The odds of your 1st round draft being “elite” are actually much worse than that.

actually, they aren't

This subject has been throughly researched and presented in several threads on AP.
It’s also been discussed on Mike and Mike (jhust recently)… and Sirius NFL radio….and a host of other sports programs.

A first round QB has about a 50% chance to bust. ……. any other round you look at has odds significantly worse than that. You’re BEST chance to get a franchise QB is to draft a first rounder, or trade for someone elses previous first round QB draft selection. (Elway, Eli Manning, Len Dawson…etc)

*your, not you're

…and I never said it was a 50/50 to be elite..
its a 50/50 to bust.
And that’s the best odds you’re going to find anywhere.

The Chiefs have spent the last 29 years chasing bad odds, and laying down good money after bad on bets very MUCH more likely to fail.

It the difference between betting on Red or Black in Roulette VS. Laying all your money on double zero.

I'd probably be for that risk if we were talking about Barkley instead of Griffin.
Not when it costs this much, no.
Flynn doesnt make sense at all unless you are bringing all those all pro receivers and that system here and you can play every game in Lambeau
But it's just not going to happen. These are pipe dreams.

I’d also argue that it’s just not worth it. The three first round picks we’ll have to give up is just not worth it.

IF (and its a big if)

we end up with a Ben Rothlesburger, Drew Brees, Troy Aikman, Len Dawson, Manning (either one) etc etc…

Was it worth 3 first rounders at that point?
What if we win a Superbowl?
What if we’re a playoff contender for years to come.. a perennial post season player?
What level does the QB have to reach to be “worth” a couple first round picks and a player or 2?

And what are the odds we EVER get a QB that’s “worth it” … if we never TRY?

Exactly........
What if we get a huge bust and have 3 fewer first round picks to show for it?
I will be happy that they at least tried

And if he is a complete bust then our draft pick should be pretty damn high the next year then to try again. You draft and draft until you get one. There is no more settling accepted.

hey, do me a favor? loan me a few million for this business venture that I'd like to try ...

I promise to pay you back if it flies, and if not … well hell, at least I tried, right?

This is basically what we as Chiefs fans are already doing.

Yes please take my money for tickets and parking only for you as a franchise can continue to put mediocre at best products on the field, and never deliver any of the promises that are made every time

Hey loan me a few million for this business venture I'd like to try..

I’m not going to take any risks at all. I won’t be ding anything innovating. In fact, my business model includes keeping the same status quot that has been routinely failing for almost 30 years. BUT.. I’m just SURE it’s going to work THIS year…..

Yeah, except

we just gave up NEXT YEAR’S pick AND the YEAR AFTER THAT’S pick to get our franchise QB BUST.

so what

Become bigger players in free agency for a couple years, and then try again.
It’s a 50/50 prospect. Those aren’t exactly horrible odds.

Because

Trading that many picks for a 50/50 shot is IMHO not worth it. I’d rather try to make a deal for Manning if he is health enough to go. I’d give this years #1 pick for 3-4 years with Manning, and Cassel on the bench behind him, or even Stanzi learning from the man.

I wouldn't give up a bag of Fritos for Manning without seeing him take a couple NFL sacks first

to see if he can survive.

then we become bigger players in free agency for a few years.. and then we try AGAIN!
I don't think Pioli has the luxury

of taking that risk, He’s got one more shot at putting the puzzle together and I think he’ll pass on a 50/50 talent.

I would disagree

I don’t think anything would buy Pioli a guaranteed 3 more years other than a new HC/OC and maybe DC too (if we make Crennel the HC) AND a play for a franchise QB all in the same year.

I think the coaching staff would be all but assured 3 seasons to make it or break it.

I agree that we should go all in and go for the QB in the first round. I’d rather try at this point than wring my hands over how it’s not a sure thing. This year was painful to watch from the QB play standpoint.

I’m also going to get back on my NT soapbox. I really had higher hopes for Powe. Makes you wonder why he wasn’t even given a shot.

Powe wasn't given a shot?

Gee, neither was Stanzi, or Gaither. Haley had something to do with that, methinks.

But I’m watching Luck right now. You really want to trade all our picks away for this crap?

uhhh... no. he wasn't given a shot

Stanzi, I can see why he didn’t get a shot. He would have gotten destroyed because he didn’t have a chance to get ready for it. The Gaither thing pisses me off royally.

I’m not watching luck right now because I don’t give a damn about the game. But if he’s half as good as hyped then he’s probably better than what we have. Yeah, I’d like to see the Chiefs try.

The Gaither thing is actually not even a thing with me

I was LAUGHING at Oakland when they brought in Gaither (pre-season, before the Chiefs) for a work out.
Major back injuries are bad bad news to an offensive lineman. Plus, the fact that the Ravens dumped him said a lot about what they thought of his chances for a full recovery. Teams just DON’T cut a starting left tackle quality player in the NFL without damn good reason.

Then the Chiefs signed him… and I was disappointed. He was a Chief… So I had to hold out hope that he’d make a full recovery, and try to save face… but I was never fully on board with his chances to make a career comeback.

When the Chiefs cut him, I assumed it was medical in nature.

The Chargers were so desperate for linemen at the time that they would have taken a retired Tim Grunnard at the drop of a hat. I don’t think the Chargers starting Gaither says much one was or another about his future in the league. I’ll wait til next season before I pass judgement, but I expect that the Chiefs staff will be vindicated in the decision not to keep the injured lineman.

a huge part of my problem with the Gaither thing

is that I live in SD. My God! Maybe it’s coincidence, maybe not, but as soon as they stuck him on the line, Rivers decided to start playing like he meant it and this entire town thought it would be funny to tell me all about it.

He did actually play pretty solid and It burns me up to think he could have done that for KC. If it was system, then I get it and to that end I’m glad the team’s moving in a different direction.

... we have no OLine and it's hard to do much as a QB when you're flat on your back
Stanzi, I can see why he didn’t get a shot. He would have gotten destroyed because …

no need to thank me, Buck, just doing what I can to help out (angelic smile)

Come on man

You know I agree with most that you say, but you know just as well as anyone else. Lineman are WAY easier to pick up in FA, than an ACTUAL FRANCHISE QB. Come on UPS

great! see about getting Rodgers to come to KC, would you?

come on my ass …

This doesnt even make any sense?

I said getting a Franchise QB in FA does not happen, however getting good olinemen is very doable in any offseason.

right, you said we should get a franchise QB ... Rodgers qualifies as that

happy?

Hey if it is possible then do whatever it takes
now you're talking!
I knew we were on the same page the whole time
we always are, as long as you agree with me
Oh hey now I will NOT fine sir
Thats what she said?
come on my ass …
will you have my baby?
Well... :P

no offseason to prepare and no real practice reps as a 3rd-stringer isn’t conducive to throwing a rookie QB into the fire behind said o-line shite with a week or two or three of real practice

I don't see what the problem would be with keeping Orton, dealing Cassel, and drafting another QB.

I’m about as sick of hearing the gush over Stanzi as I am the now-down-on-earth Tim Tebow! Had Stanzi proved himself, he’d have been out there instead of Palko….and if he can’t beat Palko out, what does that say?

Again, it says Haley didn't like him.

Crennel moved him in front of Palko day one of his interim HC job. So, he did beat out Palko, but since Stanzi wasn’t from Pittsburgh, Haley put his boy in front, consequences be damned.

The problem with keeping Orton is that he is a free agent and you can’t just keep a free agent. The problem with dealing Cassel is getting back what you paid for him, kinda like trying to sell a house when your mortgage is under water. You can’t really afford it.

Drafting another QB makes sense, just not for Luck at #1 overall or RGIII if you have to trade up…

You're not going to get what you paid Cassel.....

EVER!

which makes dealing him difficult

because you are throwing good money (or picks) after bad.

If they actually wanted to trade Cassel, it shouldn't be that hard.

They’ve already paid him most of that 60+ mil. And if the Chargers could pull a third rounder for Charlie Whitehurst, I think they could get something decent for Cassel.

Ok, maybe.

But that means you have to sign Orton first, right? I mean, you don’t go into next year with Stanzi and Palko and a draft pick, do you?

Doesn’t that (signing Orton) make Cassel less trade worthy?

Yeah I would assume someone like Orton or Flynn would have to be brought in to make that an option.

How would signing Orton make Cassel LESS trade worthy?

because Cassel is then expendable

and other teams aren’t stupid

Kind of like how he was expendable when he was with NE?

And KC gave up a 2nd rounder for him? If a team wants a QB, they aren’t going to care that KC has another one. Cassel is a sunk cost at this point. They wouldn’t HAVE to trade him.

Oh, I agree they don't have to trade him.

I’m simply saying before KC trades Cassel, you better have something other than Stanzi and Palko in your stable…

and Matt Cassel is no longer an 11-5 starter in NE going to a team that has the previous NE GM as KC GM… he is an injured QB with competition for the starting job and no coach, OC, or GM looking to bring him along.

Right, but your point was that teams would try to underbid them for Cassel because they already had Orton on board.

I don’t think that’s the case.

Respectfully disagree....

You can’t have it both ways….you’re saying Orton and Cassel are about the same, but we couldn’t afford FA Orton because we couldn’t get much out of Cassel, so we should just stay with Cassel? HUH?

Not sure if you are responding to my post,

but I’ve never said Cassel and Orton are about the same. Orton is considerably better.

We (KC) most certainly CAN afford Orton, but if dealing Cassel is in the cards (and I hope it is) you must sign Orton first, because is you deal Cassel and Orton doesn’t sign, you’ve got Stanzi, whatever you get for Cassel (which is not a QB), and a rookie draft pick QB somewhere in the mid rounds.

Right, you'd have to either re-sign Orton of sign another vet before looking to trade Cassel.
I don't care if they flat out cut Cassel and give him away for a peanut butter sandwich
SOLD! For a peanut butter sandwich!

Skippy or Peter Pan?

Laura Scudder's All Natural
Chunky only... No smooth
fine

picky, picky …

OK, I can see your point there,

Sometimes it’s hard to keep straight all these posts….I’ve seen 100 say Orton’s the same as Cassel if I’ve seen one. My sincerest apologies on that! And you’re right…..Orton IS better than Cassel, which is why I’d hate to see us cling to someone that’s never going to be able to do the job. Given the fact there isn’t going to be much left by our first round pick postion, I think it would be wise to shore up Orton first. Then, take a shot, and if it doesn’t work out, you have Orton who’s at least serviceable.

and if you sign Orton and trade Cassel

Then the team completely throws out the idea of developing a young QB and building an offense around them.
Instead, they continue down the same path of trying to mold an offense around a guy that’s never going to be more than a very good back up… just because he’s slightly better than the guy they had before.

Keep on Keeping on VS. Manning up and taking the risk for a chance at a reward that’s so much better than Kyle Orton.

I don't think that's necessarily the case.

How does signing Kyle Orton equal not drafting a QB for the foreseeable future? The only way that makes sense is if Orton costs an arm and a leg, which would pretty much make him not an option.

Hmm, not sure...

why don’t we ask …. say…. any Chiefs team for the last 30 years.

They did have some guy named Trent Green in there.

I suppose they could move forward without adding to the position, but my plan would involve Orton as a stop gap until they can draft a guy they like.

Trint had one of the worst noodle arms in the NFL and still NEVER WON A PLAYOFF GAME
Neither has Tony G.

He’s pretty good.

Are you for real?

Yeah he was awful with all of those top-5 offenses he ran.

Really? Really?

Trint was a mediocre QB playing behind a HOF line and with a HOF RB. How many times would trint constantly underthow a WIDE OPEN WR. Trint was a part of good teams that never amounted to a damn thing. Fact.

Well, there's your back-up

that became a franchise QB. Some guy from Cedar Rapids Iowa, went to UNI… seem to forget his name, but he won a Super Bowl on a team where Trent was the starter… dang, can’t remember. Then he went on to NYG, and Arizona, and made it back to another Super Bowl… gee, wish I could remember his name…

anyway, Trent was a part of that Rams team that won the Super Bowl after he was injured pre-season, so never amounted to a damn thing might be a bit harsh.

oh THAT guy ... he wasn't a backup, he was a grocery clerk
He backed up Trent Green in St. Louis.
Im pretty sure Ups knows that

he was being facebooketious

pretty sure I knew he was a grocery clerk, too

ya never know where your “franchise” guy is gonna come from…

but we all wanna give twenty six picks to Indy for Luck.

Try and do something different
20 six packs would be a good deal for Luck
ok, that deal sounds good even to me
Hopefully the next Colts GM appreciates beer
make it the GOOD stuff ... we don't him mad at us ;-)
Nope that is fact

Trent got hurt and never did anything with the opportunities that he was given. As opposed to the other QB which you arrogantly are trying to use as an argument which holds no water. Trent got cut after that and "the other QB’ went on to become a HOF’er and do the same thing that ohh,, what was that one QB from Green Bay that was drafted by another team maybe Atlanta and then went on later in his career to make other teams make playoff attempts as well. Oh yeah those guys are on EVERYONES roster. Please

Kurt Warner was Trent's backup.

He got the starting job when Trent went down.

Just stating the obvious, not being arrogant.

Well no shit

SO that is what happened! Thanks for clarifying.

You made the statement.

Trint was a part of good teams that never amounted to a damn thing. Fact.

I was just saying that Trent was a part of the Rams the year they won the Super Bowl. In my book, that’s more than “never amounted to anything.”

That was a better year for him though, he was on the IR

and on magazine covers in the fall. He was being heralded the next big thing.

Of which he had basically no part of

which was precisely my point.

but he DID pass for like 5k yards on a 2003 team that won 13 games

oh hell yeah, with the best OLine in all of football … go figure!

and got his head scrambled for a "guessed at"

4 concussions that the league and teams shrugged off as “having his bell rung”

sorry that last comment was very dickish of me

I am just sick of mediocrity and want a change. I dont mean to direct that your way. I think I will just head to bed for the night

Thats what happens when you talk to Ups too long

Stay away from guns and sharp objects…

Laters RG

no worries

I just hope everybody doesn’t call me out every time I’m a dick… sheesh, they’d need more data storage facilities.

Trint Green and Dick Vermeil were the most over rated things to ever come out of the Chiefs organization

2 winning season, 2 losing seasons, 1 .500 season.
0 playoff wins.

Vermeil and Trent Green’s teams were effectively a .500 squad.

Which is exactly what Jeff Fisher has done.

Yet people think he’s the answer.

btw, Vermeil took two teams to the Super Bowl, won one.

He has as many rings as Brett Favre. So, Favre is over-rated?

i believe i said... "to ever come out of the Chiefs organization"

They didn’t do anything with the Chiefs worth celebrating.
Especially Vermeil.
Green set a record for concussions, that’s something to strive for =P

I'll take a 13 win season over what Paul Wiggin did :)
you'd only get the one.

Cause that’s all Vermeil got us.
Marty did better than that.

there ya go ... ball control w/o an elite QB

NOW you got it, Tex! I am so PROUD of you!!!

you’ve now moved up from Idiot to Moron … wtg!

yes, you are so right

i often spend my evenings counting up all of Marty’s playoff wins and Super bowl trophy’s… because his system was so damn perfect

I sure hope and want to believe that Pioli is considering all options:

1) Flynn
2) RGIII
3) Manning (if healthy)
4) Orton (and trading Cassel when and after someone comes shopping)

My convern is:
That Pioli is already planning on sticking with Cassel.

I'd agree that that is a concern.

He should be open to other options.

With Pioli firing Haley it should be enough to satisfy this whole Pioli won't admit his mistakes stuff.

Who hired Haley? Pioli
Who fired Haley? Pioli
That is Pioli moving on, just like he should do from Matt Cassel in any form other than backup QB.

I'll agree with this

well said.

Except I'm not sure he sees Cassel as a mistake.

He certainly didn’t after last season and having his season cut short this year almost gives him an excuse to give Cassel another shot.

He was watching Haley coach

somewhere in there I am sure he saw Matt Cassel play QB.

If he can recognize Haley’s failures, why wouldn’t he see Cassel. In 2010, Matt Cassel played well, what was he suppose to be seeing?

He is suppose to be a football genius, it doesn’t take a genius to see Cassel’s shortcomings. He only gave up a second round pick for the guy and gave him 63 million over a billion seasons. Why does that make him something priceless that he can’t get rid of…

Both of those things are peanuts in the NFL.

I'm not saying he can't get rid of him.

I’m saying I’m not sure he wants to. I think everyone is assuming Cassel was Haley’s boy, and maybe he was, but Pioli clearly liked him as well. Pioli could very well be planning to roll with Cassel for another year.

Cassel is Pioli's boy.

I doubt Haley knew anything about Cassel before Pioli brought him to town.

I just think it is funny that everyone assumes Pioli is this guy that

just stubbornly believes in Matt Cassel despite all of the evidence that he hasn’t played very well.

It just doesn’t seem logical, maybe he is that stubborn and maybe he will bring in McDaniels and start Cassel in stubborn rage. If that is the case, then Kansas City fired the wrong guy IMO.

I think Pioli is too smart to not recognize that Matt Cassel shouldn’t be the starter and all the eggs shouldn’t be in his basket. The QB doesn’t even read defenses or execute a screen pass well.

I hope he's smart enough ...
I'm not claiming that any of this is the case.

All I’m saying is that until the cut Cassel, I see no evidence that he won’t be start in week 1 next season.

Where is the evidence

(other than claiming Orton when Cassel was injured) that Pioli does NOT stubbornly believe in Matt Cassel?

Thank you.

That’s exactly my point.

Some people claim that he is stubborn with no evidence either

Both arguments are redundant without evidence. Personally, I would like to think our GM isn’t so petty.

I haven't claimed that he is.

Only claimed that I’m not sure that he doesn’t still like Cassel. I don’t see how that’s incorrect at this point?

You can't deny that there is a bevy of people out there that claim that Pioli will stick with

Cassel no matter what.

It is all over AP…

I just don’t see how we have to believe he is that foolishly in love with Cassel. At this point he knows his job and ass are on the line. Coming out with Matt Cassel as starter could be a fire-able offense. Who knows?

if he does, can we fire him by acclaim?
Know what else could get him fired?

Running Stanzi or a rook out there and coming back with a 3-13 season.

Hang on now.

Haley told Brian Waters he could win two games with 22 guys off the street. Know what? He was right.

But 3-13 with Stanzi? Blasphemous!!

There is a long list of things that can get him fired...

What do you think the Chiefs should do PD… I’m tired of debating Matt Cassel.

I've already said.

Try to bring back Orton if he’s amenable to a reasonable contract. If he’s not (and it doesn’t sound like he is), bring back Cassel as a stopgap and try to find someone in the draft next year (or this year if someone really steps forward that they like).

Just to be clear, I still want a young QB even if Orton is brought back.
I just think we have tried the Matt Cassel mobile and it has a flat tire...

Why waste more time.

Kyle Orton has shown this offense could be more effective with a QB that can read defenses and go through progressions, but the team needs a true OC.

I don’t think the will be able to re-sign Orton, they need to use the next few months to get a QB and they can never afford to wait until next year…my god man.

it is heresy on both sides of the argument
Agree and hope your right.
All I know is

If at the beginning of the season someone would have told me we would be just one blocked FG from making the playoffs during this extremely unfavorable schedule. . . after;
1) not having Charles, Berry, and Moeaki the entire season,
2) losing our starting QB for the last few games, and
3) firing our head coach with three games left
I would be laughing very loud directly into your face. We had some frustrating games this season, but unfortunately that’s just Chiefs football. I think the team did great and will be very competitive next season.

But it's the entire body of work...

that makes the playoffs, and better yet, a deep run in the playoffs…

I mean, we can listen to Phyllis Rivers whine about a fumbled snap or a missed field goal here and there being the reason the Chargers aren’t in the post-season, right?

You gotta get it done from week one. The Chiefs most certainly did not.

Entire body

QB is typically the head, and a good RB is one of the limbs. Hard for a “body” to function withoot those, let alone play the game of football.

Flynn is so freaking tiring to listen about

Look at it this way. Hey you remember when Peyton had a backup named… oh what was that… Curtis Painter, or even any other backup. Oh they would come in and “make some noise and look good” But when they ACTUALLY have to play, wait for it….. They freaking suck. That is why they are backups. Good for one game or two when they have to spot fill for injuries or blowouts to save your real Franchise QB. SO, please just stop trying to find treasure from someone else’s garbage. Because at the end of the day it is what it is, garbage. Try and grow some balls and find a first round potential to be YOUR franchise guy. This is the difference between mediocre teams and teams that are constantly winning.

Nothing wrong with bringing in a backup

Particularly one from a franchise that appears to have a decent eye for QB talent. 480 and 6 TDs? He absolutely has to be considered; deservedly so.

Cassel was a back-up that went 11-5

as a starter. Flynn is 1-1.

That doesn't exactly prove that there isn't a backup out there capable of being a starter.
It also doesn't prove that

a neutron isn’t capable of being a proton, except that it has never happened as far as you know.

but if the atom loses an electron then it's an ion ... and of that ...

I am POSITIVE

rec'd

but I was talking nucleonic, not atomic

still, wrecked.

muons, gluons, mesons ...

where? which way did it go? so much UNCERTAINTY!

I really don't feel like looking this up.

But can someone roll off the list of former backups who became very good starting QBs? It is possible.

first you have to define "very good"
Lenny D was one a long time ago. There have been many.
Well, if the desired result is a "franchise" QB

the list is a lot shorter, and that’s what everyone seems to be clamoring for.

Obviously it's shorter, but the list is still the list.

You’re claiming above that because Cassel flopped, you don’t want another backup. I’m saying that option shouldn’t be taken out of the equation just because of Cassel.

Agree. Actually Rogers, Brady, and many top QB's were backups for a

while.

How about Kurt Warner?

That do it for ya?

Steve Young, Tom Brady...
A decent eye?

Would you not say that INDY has a decent eye. Oh wait that may be because their backups to Peyton are nobodies when they actually have to win games and play a season. Sorry but just becuase a franchise seems to have a “decent eye” doesnt mean that they can just go and get franchise guys EVERY TIME

Yeah but the Pats got Bledsoe and Brady...

so Cassel must be good right?

Well I am not sure what you are trying to get at besides just prove my point even further
I was joking.
ah sorry ups has me all riled up right now haha
Franchise QB's obviously come from all sources. I just want them all to be considered.
Franchise QB's come from all sources

but nobody knows which one when… that’s why it’s always a crap shoot. There’s maybe ONE franchise QB for every six or seven hundred QB’s taken from any source. That’s probably generous.

In Flynn bio, this is the interesting part:

“The battle for the second-string position became the most intriguing battle in camp. Flynn was seen as being less talented than Brohm because of Brohm’s superior size, arm and foot speed, coupled with the fact that Brohm was selected much higher in the draft compared to Flynn.”

It simply means that GB has two good backup QB’s and probably can’t or won’t do much to hold on to Flynn.

Pretty sure Brohm hasn't been on their roster for quite some time.
wow, that sounds just like KC's media guide:

“The battle for second string matched the gutsy but diminutive Ricky Stanzi against the God-like qualities of Tyler Palko. In the end, even Mr. Made in the USA couldn’t overcome the laser-like accuracy that the strong arm of Palko produced, breaking Jonathan Baldwin’s thumb on a deep throw to the back of the end zone. Baldwin was subsequently put on IR for the first several weeks of the season, and Thomas (Two-Yard) Jones fell on the sword for the up and coming franchise QB known as Tyler THE Palko.”

Weird.

I could complete a pass in Green Bays offense.

If we bring in Matt Flynn, we better bring in about 5 pro bowl caliber WR’s and spread out the defenses like the Pack does.. There is still a thing called a system. That doesn’t mean that Rodgers isn’t a damn good QB, he is, largely due to his mobility and ability to be as accurate while scrambling as when standing in the pocket. He also is part of an offensive system that has enough talented WR’s, TE’s, RB’s, FB’s, Cheerleaders and occassionally even an eligible NT, to continually cause matchup problems, and to spread out the opposing defenses. That is the new NFL offense. It is the offense of not only Rodgers, but Drew Brees and Tom Brady. Everything is based on matchups and numbers, and giving the QB about 5 different optiions he can utilize when going through their progressions. That is not the Chief’’s offense, and I doubt Flynn would do much better than Cassel, with the Chief’s current offensive scheme, and personel..

Luck just fumbled a handoff

Looks like he’s a lock for San Diego.

you mean he's fallible?
Nah, he's a lock for franchise QB somewhere.

There is no way he’s anything but the second coming of Tim Tebow.

well, Tebow is atrocious ... so there ya go

pass on that guy!

My signature now includes my 2012 Draft want list.

I think it’s a fairly decent list and covers most of our needs.

DeCastroooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Agreed.

I’d take Riley Reiff if DeCastro isn’t there when we pick, but I’d rather have DeCastro. And I’d like to see us take Ta’amu in the 2nd because he’s probably the only NT in this draft. But if he’s not there, I love Adcock for RT. He could lock down that position.

And I will be (one of) the first to say that I’d love to see the Chiefs pick up Case Keenum. I think he could be a great QB. Maybe not an immediate starter, but he could be great competition for Stanzi to see who is going to be the future. Unless the Chiefs take a chance on Peyton if he hits FA, we’ve gotta live with Orton or Cassel for at least another year. But if we can make every other position of need better… I can live with them for one more year.

not sold on Keenum ... not horrible but still, system QB
He does have some pretty numbers to stare at...

That does it for some people.

so did Ryan Leaf ...

just sayin’

and Ryan Leaf did it for some people in southern Cal
bubble headed beach blondes down that way ...

like that Bajah character who used to come ’round here all the time

The one that started the vicious Mike Vrabel retirement rumors...

That bastard.

that was Thorman!
It's all coming back to me now...

Dammit someone is a bastard. Maybe it’s that guy that cut Brian Waters.

Tebow's 4th qtr QBR in weeks 15-17?

6.9, good for 35th in the league.

Tebow is the 2nd coming. Why do you doubt this?
The 2nd coming

of Ryan Leaf?

i have read through most of this thread

and as much as I hate to say it or think this way….. here it goes

if we sign Flynn…( i know could be worse the cassel)
we can spend our draft picks on O line and other needs if Flynn is a bust then we will suck enough to be in a place to draft the top QBs next season …

in the back of my mind I hate this idea… i can hear me scream to sell the farm and live it up with a top 2 draft pick

So you are going to give Flynn 60 million dollars ? and then think you can just draft a 1st rd qb next year ?

Bringing in Flynn is starting over

Drafting a QB high is starting over

We are not at a point where we are considering starting over

we should be

What better time to start over with a 1st round QB than in the year you also stat with a new HC and OC.. or OC and DC ?

With a 1st round QB and new coaching.. everyone gets 3 seasons to prove themselves.. before the fans start demanding we fire everyone and start the wheel rolling again.

Now is the perfect time to start over. We’re going to be implementing an entirely new offensive scheme.. may as well get a QB we think can success in it.. Instead of building eh scheme around the obvious flaws int eh guys we have.

I've said this a bunch but this is what I wish

for. Franchise Bowe and trade him and Dorsey to the Rams for their 1st round pick if they can swing it. Bowe is an awesome wide reciever but I’m a little nervous about giving him too large of a deal. Getting RGIII makes the trade worth it alone. Dorsey will never be a great defense end in a 3-4. He just doesn’t fit in this defense. I still think he could be great as a defensive tackle in a 4-3. We would just have to sell that to the Rams. Bailey showed some promise and I would keep Gilberry too if possible. I’d also try to add another DE in the draft or free agency. We could get a nose tackle with our 2nd pick in the 1st round and go after linemen in the 2nd round and free agency. Could also try and get a replacement for Bowe in draft and sign Brandon Lloyd.

Also would keep

Cassel or Orton to keep the seat warm for RGIII.

I doubt a new coach is going to want to give up the lineman they can get with that pick...
never happen in a million years ... also, no thanks on Lloyd
Bowe and trade him and Dorsey to the Rams for their 1st round pick
Which is why

I said “I wish”. I would throw in our 2nd round pick too. And Lloyd would be a nice addition if we kept Orton and got McDouche. He is no where near what Bowe is but would be a great addition.

I don't want Mchoodie, ever
so if that is your wish

what is your reality.

I wish we could trade our team offense for the packers offense, for a seventh round pick. Only we get to keep Charles.

oooooooh I like that!
My reality

would be that they keep Cassel or Orton and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. The Packers trade would be awesome. We could sign Grant like someone suggested too.Unbeatable.

My reality would be that...

We trade this years 1st, next years 1st, Glenn Dorsey, and a Franchised Bowe to the Rams and draft RG3.

If push came to shove, I’d be willing to toss in this years 3rd or next years 2nd as well.

Of course, I’d take him for less.. if we could get him… but I think that’s a reasonable price to pay.

if you're giving up that much you might as well take Luck...

Who will be the better Pro? Luck or RG3

Most would say Luck without hesitation, but the draft is a gamble. You just never know.

Im not most people. I say RG3 will be the better pro
I respect that curious opinion...

Time will tell.

Anything is possible and we don't know if we don't try. Sorry, UPS, your too

negative. You never know what Pioli might get worked out.

There is no way in any world, even Madden

That the Rams are taking Dorsey and a franchised Bowe for the number two overall pick. It ain’t happening…

oh, I'm not negative at all ...

… I’m POSITIVE that deal will never be made!

College Football ... where defense is a forbidden word
FINALLY... Truth from Ups
^5 my friend!
Wow, 457 comments, and zero recs

/sniffle. No one lubs me.

of course.. 250 of those comments are probably mine

…damn comment count padder!

I must remember to get you a better XMas present next year

dead hamster it shall be!

How do you expect a rec

The Chiefs need to develop their own quarterback.

when you don’t even acknowledge the Stanzi?

he didn't mean from YOU ;-)
he meant he needs a fluffer
No one lubs me.
actually, I refreshed the page to see what the poll results were (haven't refreshed since i posted)

..and saw over 450 comments on the post and zero rec’s.
I don’t think Ive ever seen a post with 450+ comments and no rec’s before. It was just strange so I mentioned it.

that one i did on GE in the spring ... our POLITICO thread ... something like 575 and about 3 recs ... I was pleased ;-)
the comments make me happier than the rec's to be honest

That way I know people were at least engaged enough to scroll down and call me an idiot.

I know, I'm same way ... good convo

funny … scores all day were in the 30’s and 40’s … the LSU-Bama game will end up 10-7 … some REAL football!

Don't let this post mislead you.. Defense > Offense

9 to 6 with 11 combined sacks and blood and mud on everyone uniform is better than 45 – 41 with 11 touchdown passes EVERY single time.

While I agree that offense has changed to a passing league…. defense is still more important than offense.
It’s a different style of defense than in the past…. you’re going to give up some yards, you just can’t give up the points. But the defense still wins more games than pure offense ever will =)

However, it’d be nice to have out own franchise QB, instead of just cursing everyone else’s while they make our offense look like crap by comparison.

I just wish they would practice tackling...
no more 2 a days...and severly limited full contact practices

it’s gonna get worse, rather than better (

and that is unfortunate...

Defense is going to suffer the most for it. The timing of a tackle is an art form that needs to be practiced repeatedly.

You almost hope for an 18 game schedule

just so by the time the Super Bowl comes around, they will have had enough practice…

Tex, major props to ya tonight ...

you most definitely earned Joel’s pay this evening :-)

somebody has too...
yup, lord knows Joel's not about to (angelic smile)
I'm still waiting for my beer glove in the mail
don't settle for less than a pair!

remember … you’re worth it

they do come in pairs

but you know Joel will keep one to himself…

yup, he would ... the greedy bastard

uh oh, do I get a “nasty note” for that? ;-)

no, we all know Joel doesn't have time to read AP
too busy giving radio interviews
and picking out Chris's GQ attire...
damn, deranged minds think alike!
and passing judgement on Chris' fashion sense.
pretty much the same thing

commended.

I KNEW i wasn't original in any way, shape, or form

Thanks for confirming it.

That is the problem with AP

no actual originality… just a bunch of chiefs fans that think they are cleverly original.

But the wheels turn.

Im writing a post entirely about Cheese Wheels and Stereophonic Headphones...

.. just so i’ll be original.
Don’t go staling my ideals now!

That one will get a wreck from me...

as long as it describes form tackling.

Have a good night

IM done

One of these days...
Nice article.

I re-read it after the first skim-through due to live action on the tube. Thanks to you!

heh, thanks.

You’re continued discussion through out the games is appreciated as well.
The best part of a post is always when the comment section includes lively debate.

I always try and rec the good stuff...

It is a difficult process clicking that button. You have to have the right 53 pla…wait wrong argument.

"the good stuff"

So THATS why I don’t get Rec’s…. I have to put up something GOOD!!!
Dayum!… thanks for the suggestion. I’ll have to try that next week =P

My two cents is always free...
and worth every penny!
my riches grow by saving them...

ok, Stanzi exists... all better now?
well played!
wow, Andrew Luck LOST! and fumbled AND threw an INT! omg!

and your comment is now rec’d! :-)

He will now fall all the way to number one overall in the draft...

It is pouring Luck around here. What a fall.

The hype machine on him is incredible. I can’t believe how many fans gargle the guys taint, he is just another QB.

Randy Bullock, Texas A&M!

that’s our guy!!!

Compare us to the Saints

At every position, when we are healthy, we compare favorably. At many positions, we are better. Except one. Imagine if we had somebody like Drew Brees at QB. Oh wait, we could have had Drew Brees with a little intelligence from the guy in the leather coat.

Go get a QB. If you can’t do a deal for Luck, draft a tackle in R1, and get Keenun or Wilson in R2. Then get some coaches who can teach them.

really? we have a guy like Carl Nicks? really?
Congrats on the win, and good luck next season Chef fans
thank you!

and same to you, oh Troll of Texas

Yeah, I can't wait for the new season

of Hell’s Kitchen.

Chef fans

It almost makes me wanna stop calling Detroit the Loins, NE the Patsies, and Green Bay the team that ONLY LOST TO THE CHEFS.

Do you all realize Andrew Luck

threw FOUR incompletions?!!

(gasp)

see? totally overrated!

crash n burn time ... nite peoples!
Ups, i shot you an Email btw... and.. Good night.

Im headed out in a minute or two as well

got itand

no, it wouldn’t … I agree with your premise

Alllllllllllllllllllllrighty-then

Time to get some paperwork done before bed.
Have a good night Folks

there were so many reasons to be stoked about the future of this team, and future meaning....this next season

as i believe this team was beyond 10-12 win capable this year if healthy.

houston, bailey stepping up, proving their worth….makes this team so much better.

lets hope its an ol focused draft, with a te, a hb and a focus on just building up those lines and paying carr and colquitt and mcclain etc.

Don't know that I'd say Bailey proved anything yet

Houston has taken steps and Bailey has show Gilberry-esque flashes…speaking of Wallace, put out an APB.

So tired of always saying “next year”. FML.

Great insights Tex and Rec

Sorry I missed the party :(

I agree, QB if we can get em or maybe we do need to forget the O. Since the GM does.

Build that D, to stop Rodgers, Brady, Brees

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