Arrowhead Pride

If organization denies,

we know they can provide phone records…

this is really ...

“not good”

And yet, not wholly surprising, eh?

I know ... almost like the other shoe is finally dropping

Unbelievable

I never thought I would say this, but the way Pioli is running the Chiefs, I kind of miss Carl Peterson.

Wheresthebeef - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

I know, huh

this “Patriots Way” crap needs to stop … and with this BS my guess is that Pioli is really starting the process of “hanging himself” with all the rope that Clark has given him

saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 21, 2012 reply

He's not REALLY gone y'know

Halfbreed - January 21, 2012 reply

u want king carl back

he’s in miami

niageriannit1 - January 21, 2012 reply

Scott pioli says

If you come any closer I will rip to shreds

nice

Eastcoastransplant - January 21, 2012 reply

Love it

My dog’s name is Falkor.

KCMizzou - January 21, 2012 reply

Awesome.

I always wanted a blue flying luck dragon… Next best thing is my room mates Portuguese Water Dog.

can we get a helmet on him

we have found our new NT

niageriannit1 - January 21, 2012 reply

It makes me wonder how the PR department hasn't been fired by now...(Yes, I realize the bad optics of that)

Even if the allegations are 100% false, the best thing they could do is give short, simple denials to the press and just let everything else play itself out. Time heals a lot of wounds.

The absolute worst thing they could do is try to strong-arm the media and keep them from running a story.

saints_chiefsfan1979 - January 21, 2012 reply

recd

if for no other reason I love your sig

Perhaps Babb would do an interview w/ you Joel

If he really wants to get his story out, there are other outlets (like AP).

But that's kinda the point

He’s done those interviews. He’s been on afternoon drive. Why stop a Friday night TV appearance (if the story is accurate)?

Joel Thorman - January 21, 2012 reply

yeah, this one makes less than no sense

It's the corporate "damage control" (emphasis on control) mentality that causes more

damage than it controls…but so many never learn that it does cause more damage.

“We deny this categoricallly – never happened. Don’t talk about it…because we have nothing to hide…so keep it quiet.”

which begs the question of why there's a need for "damage control" and spin to begin with ...

… will someone check the oven and see if something’s burning, I smell smoke!

I'm Scott and I tell you it's not burning, it's really not burning...we're just slow cooking it to be a championship dinner..

+Farenheit 451

It's on the 5 year plan

Chiefs fan in ST Louis - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

Ya, I see what you're saying

I guess I look at it more as out-of-touch corporate damage control than anything else.

If I were in charge of Chiefs PR, I’d send someone (preferably Pioli) out to do a press conference or TV/Radio interview in order to set the facts strait. Just go out & say “Look, we came into an organization with 10 wins in three seasons, and found a lack of accountability at all levels. Good football organizations simply never win only ten games over a three year span. With this in mind I knew that a drastic culture change was needed….blah blah blah” Point is, the team needs to say something, otherwise the blanks will be filled in with rumors.

Good point, excpet

They never do, and the whole article was based on that premise.

So, if they did now, it would actually lend credence to the story.

Just my .02

If the story is accurate

it reflects even more poorly on the unidentified TV station.

I hate it, but it does make some sense...

Why stop a Friday night TV appearance (if the story is accurate)?

There is pretty big difference between afternoon radio (and newspaper) and prime time local television. The latter has a much larger and broader audience (i.e. not limited to diehard fans). That last point is important, because a controversy that can be limited to a core group can always be dismissed as a result of that group’s obsessive eccentricities. Once the story gets picked up outside that group and is recognized by “non-specialist” audiences, then you have a whole lot more pressure to address the issue.

Chernabog - January 21, 2012 reply

I've been giving them...

the benefit of the doubt, but this is getting ridiculous.

Crown Chief - January 21, 2012 reply

Also, didn't Carl ban some radio station from the media room late in his tenure? Something about not liking the questions coming from them?

or was that the Royals…I forget.

Royals and Bob Fescoe, I believe

Joel Thorman - January 21, 2012 reply

and rhonda maas

kcguy - January 21, 2012 reply

Yes, Carl banned some

He even did it on camera once. Donnie Edwards was speaking to a reporter and Carl came over, pulled him aside and said something to him. Edwards came back and gave some lame excuse. It was a radio interview but it was caught on camera. Some reporters are just looking for a “gotcha” story, and will twist words and make things up. IMHO it’s OK to stay away from those guys. If you’re fair and accurate and still get shut out, that another matter.

Some reporters are just looking for a "gotcha" story, and will twist words and make things up.

XianDave, you are so right. I experienced that many times throughout my military and airline career. It is so frustrating to have the things you say “twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools”. It’s unfortunate that so many people are so starved for news and rumors, that they will believe anything thrown at them. The days of “truth in advertising” and reporting is a thing of the past. It is also true that ten people can read a statement and give you ten different interpretations of what was meant or said.

Flyboy26 - January 21, 2012 reply

Why do you think the story is false?

The entire story? The phone tampering? The Chiefs black balling Babb?

Is it all false? Everyone who spoke to the reporter lied? or the reporter lied?

Nobody knows, that's the problem

Hey, nice weather today huh? That’s why I’m sitting here

Why would you doubt?

They are horrible

Babb’s article confirmed that. They need to change. Now.

If you trust Babb

The Star has been irrelevant for so long, this could be their attempt at being relevant.

bonesjackson - January 21, 2012 reply

And yet...

even a broken clock is right twice a day…

I trust and believe a free and unregulated press far more than a paid corporate exec

Yes!

Chiefs_swagger - January 21, 2012 reply

I'm still blown away at your faith in this "free and unregulated" press....

Really have to look at it from an outlet-to-outlet basis. Some papers/TV stations/networks/radio stations are good, some are shills, and some are mediocre. All of ’em fall to the other side occasionally…as folks have said already, the old “stopped clock” is right twice a day.

The Star has been hot for something on the Chiefs ever since Pioli blew into town, that much has been true. As an outsider who (at one point) read their online Chiefs section regularly, that’s the message I started to pick up almost from Day One. That theme really gives me pause whenever I read a Star article, to be honest.

Now, does that mean that I don’t give the article credit? No—I think Babb is onto something with the nature of working in the Chiefs’ offices. I DO think some of it is overblown, as his sources all have reasons to shed the new admin in a bad light. However, I’m not willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater; working in the offices at One Arrowhead Drive is akin to working in the front offices for Kraft or Verizon: Secrecy, CYA documentation, damage control…

as a former reporter...

I agree with this. The lack of regulations has led to a lack of standards and professionalism, not to mention a lack of pay. Any hack can call himself a journalist. What I grew up believing journalism does is almost extinct in the U.S. today. That’s not to say what Chiefs did to Babb is acceptable. It’s egregious and if true, I want Pioli out. It’s dumb, too, bullying reporters is just going to get more negative coverage from the Star.

Well played Nico, couldn't say it better myself.

I do believe in a free press, however I greened this...

There HAS to be SOME integrity in journalism. Everything can’t be treated as “dirt” celebrity style with paparazzi breaking into homes and putting recorders on/in everything.

Where did building a rapport with an organization go? Someone covering a team for so long that had a special relationship. There was no question if “so and so” wrote the story it was true, because this guy wouldn’t just write something to make a buck.

We need some balance in reporting. Someone writing stories who is far enough from the organization to be trusted, but close enough to be trusted with the truth.

This is a general comment. I am not speaking specifically about Babb or any other journalist.

Lucasjr5 - January 22, 2012 reply

go-sal, I hear ya and I don't disagree ... FOX News is an oxymoron in itself

I will say this: the Star has LONG been known for having one of the best (and at times THE best) sports reporting staff in the nation

secondly, I think you have to understand the importance of Watergate in terms of Freedom of Information and what a free press means to our nation and the ideals of Democracy as a whole

do I understand that one has to read critically and THINK about what’s being said or unsaid? of course I do, nor would I attempt to say that one shouldn’t do that, but wouldn’t it be nice if this crap wasn’t going on and we didn’t HAVE to her about it? personally I’m glad that we do … there’s a reason for Sunshine Laws and transparency in government (unless National Security is involved)

in the case of the Chiefs, and short of giving away the playbook or who they plan to draft, I see no need for the kind of extremes that are being taken: non-football offices much have blinds closed so they don’t see a practice? wow, talk about no faith in your employees … sure, I get it: someone might see Palko throw a practice interception, that would be horrible

Hey, I'm not justifying the means here...don't get me wrong.

I also don’t view this as a Watergate-level issue (wiretapping, phone hijinks, etc)…mostly because I think that Babb caught a paranoid Haley who knew the end was near and was beaten down by the culture of the institution he worked for.

Granted, I didn’t live through Watergate, so I want to give you some credibility regarding that time frame. But as a Historian (a professional one, at that, for nearly eight years) I don’t see a “total” correlation the way that you have, or the way that your comments seem to indicate.

I do agree that the “Patriot Way” methods get in the way of good football folks doing their job…I also don’t approve of the work environment Clark Hunt has sired. As I said earlier, my disgust with that level of “accountability” led me to choose my current firm very, very, very carefully.

Bottom line: I wish this wasn’t happening. I don’t believe it’s as pervasive or evil as it sounds. I don’t believe it’s as innocent or routine as others have tried to suggest. But anything beyond that is a bunch of interweb ladies gossiping over coffee and crumpets.

/takes another sip of coffee
//admires your handbag, asks where DID you get that thing

The Patriot way won 3 super bowls.

I’m willing to give it a little time. Just because we have a negative emotional reaction to it doesn’t mean it’s a bad method.

Yeah, I wish they had gone with the Browns way

Crennel already tried the Patriots Way

in Cleveland and it bombed with the fans and media. Still a good coach, though, just not sure he’s a HC. I guess we’ll find out soon enough.

Took a crappy team 10-6

Seemed to work pretty good.

The Patriot Way

Is good players, a HOF QB, great coach. Locking down the business side of the organization does not add to the wins.

Agreed, but the jury is still out

yanno sal ... for a minute I read that as you being a professional historian for EIGHTY years ...

yeah, right … so!

yeah, I did live thru the Watergate Era, so I have that appreciation of the third estate that some or many might not have … don’t get me wrong, I’m not at all saying it’s THAT egregious … nor am I suggesting that laws have been broken (I’d most certainly hope not)

but the overall picture that’s emerging here is not pretty … and it actually seems as if Haley isn’t the one who’s paranoid, but rather Pioli

FWIW: when I finally went back to college in the 80’s for my Ed degree, my minor was … history (I actually had visions of Welcome Back Kotter and was hoping for a gig in my Alma Mater … ah well)

/you like? found it at a thrift store last week, I just ADORE thrift stores, don’t you?

It could very well be

they are both paranoid, egomaniacal backstabbers which is why they couldn’t work together. If Pioli is one, though, we’re screwed.

Well said, go_saleaumua!

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Flyboy26 - January 21, 2012 reply

Thanks :)

After dealing with corporate America for 30+ years, I'm right there with ya Ups

Hey, no one said Corporate is Best. I know I don't...

That’s why I work with a not-for-profit financial firm. No way I could put on the dark suit and dance for some of these jokers. (I did not say all, but I did say some).

WorL, you have a new "Security" memo

you’ll see it when you get back there (angelic smile)

here's the deal: this type of "leadership" doesn't CARE what anything looks like ... nor does it care about people

This makes the Chiefs look horrible

And at the end of the day, it sounds like that's how Hunt wants it.

All accountability, all the time. Success or nothing.

THAT much no one can dispute…Babb’s article just adds to the reams of empirical/visual evidence we’ve all got on that one.

I wouldn't call this accountability...

We don’t call playground bullies at school accountable, do we? No, we call their parents and they get chewed out.

well said

wait...

I thought we wanted an ‘adult’ running the show at Arrowhead drive—no?

Aiken_Drum - January 21, 2012 reply

From the perspective of the folks in the interview, that's true.

Others may not say that (I honestly don’t know). But I agree, it LOOKS like we have a bully system in place here.

yes, if true...

this is horrible. I think we should start a letter-writing campaign to the Chiefs threatening to remove our fanship until they stop trying to bully and intimidate people.

I can't tell you

how furious and embarrassed I was when I read that.

KCMizzou - January 21, 2012 reply

Why?

I had a completely different reaction.

bossmanham - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

THe Chiefs calling and performing some damage control looks better than the unsubstantiated nonsense being broadcast on the evening news.

Betcha

The 'Chiefs' don't really care.

When you fire a relatively popular head coach in the fashion that the ‘chiefs’ have done, it shows that they do not care about backlash from fans. The really sad part about this is that it is looking like this is an attitude that is predicated on the idea that winning solves all problems. I am not so sure that even if this team were to win a Superbowl next year that it would put all of these current issues to bed in the collective mind of the fan base. Ups mentions the other shoe dropping. I would say that a winning season next year would merely put that other shoe hitting the floor a bit farther into the future.

Aiken_Drum - January 21, 2012 reply

The exact reason I don't visit the "Mothership" very often.

We all know that what is printed on the official Cheif’s website is closely monitored, and nothing will get printed that may put a black eye on the organization. Unfortuantely, the apparent censorship and excessive control, is making the organization look alot worse than if they just printed the truth on their webpage, and allowed more points of view and criticism. Arrowhead Pride is not controlled by the Chief’s organization, and that is why I trust the info., and enjoy the debates and different points of view that would never be allowed on the team’s official website, and why Arrowhead is my first option (and often the only option) in gaining info. about the team, good or bad. Keep up the good work, boys!

Racyman - January 21, 2012 reply

Unfriending Pioli & the Chiefs

I never cared for “big time” college sports, baseball lost me with the steroid scandal and all the tattoos in the NBA distracted me from the game. I’ve been a fan of the Chiefs since out of the womb but this article about Pioli and Arrowhead leaves me cold to the franchise. The closed shades to the practice field is the bit that really sinks in my gut. I’m sure looking out onto that green field keeps half those workers sane. The clockwork timing of shutting off the natural light during the day must really screw up their mental and physical states. And it’s probably just to keep employees from tweeting or posting a facebook update about an injury they saw on the practice field.

Chief Farmer - January 21, 2012 reply

one more point

For an organization that treasures obedience, silence and security, this article is such an embarrassment. That place must be toxic. Too fucking bad. The Chiefs really couldn’t manage to find any better way to spin the article or defuse the language? Where were their PR people on this?

There is some combination of incompetency and arrogance that bodes pretty poorly for our GM. Or was this leaked as a precursor to Pioli getting fired?

Chief Farmer - January 21, 2012 reply

Also dropped Chiefs on Facebook.

Posted it was in protest of the silence and intimidation (keeping Babb off TV). Sure it won’t last long, but it’s all I have.

I'm keeping my money in my wallet.

I root for a team but I purchase from a company. I choose to support companies that treat their employees well. If the Chiefs want to cloak everything in secrecy, I’ll act on the best information available.

Chief Farmer - January 21, 2012 reply

doing my part from here in Denver

until things change, I refuse to go to a Broncos game …

oh, wait!

Outing yourself as a Donk: Priceless.

:)

LOL

hey, not a Bronco fan, I just live here … just remember on thing: I got mountains, you don’t ;-)

Love the view...but I sure don't envy you the snow & cold temps there must be about now...

in the high country the snow can get tricky ... but not usually as cold as you might think

altitude and dry air makes it feel less cold than it sometimes is … and in the summer, it doesn’t get that hot and feels cooler than it would at lower elevation (which is why it’s incredibly easy to get a dark red sunburn in one day w/o knowing it til it’s too late … you aren’t “hot” so you don’t feel yourself burning)

with all that, I’m down in Denver metro … the “flatlands” (but the scenery above is never too far away)

Who needs all that glory when you can have this instead

Then again, I live in Atlanta, which has neither :(

I do miss good bbq ... difficult if not impossible to find here

I have soybeans, corn, rivers, lakes...rolling hills...

Iowa ain’t all the media cracks it up to be. Aside from the whole meth crisis, that’s a shitty deal. But other than that—it’s a nice state, very attractive in its own right.

fans should get organized on this and write letters

to Chiefs. If this is true, I will be done with them until Pioli is gone.

and...

my post has been deleted from their wall.

I’m not surprised and don’t blame them for doing it. At least whoever deleted it had to read it first.

wow

getting a bit bizarre, isn’t it?

Nah, that's just them keeping their page clean.

Anybody would do the same thing. Just my little bit of protest. I did tweet Looney to see if we could get an official statement on the Babb TV thing… we’ll see.

good job ... double your salary, Sir!

You don't think this is an overreaction?

This is what Babb wanted, an emotional reaction among the fans. Separate your emotions and think about it for a second. What is soooo bad about the things said in the story (beyond the wiretapping)? Why is it such a scandal to close shades when the team is practicing? So the employee can focus on his work? So that employee can’t leak practice info to the media?

The best thing about Babb’s piece is that it CONFIRMS what he’s trying to rail against. He get’s on Pioli for going above and beyond to try to squash leaks, and then confirms that the Chiefs have a media-leak problem with his story.

The closed shades to the practice field is the bit that really sinks in my gut.

Has anyone considered the possibility that the “closed shades” was management’s way of insuring that their employees were not distracted by the activity on practice field? :-)

Flyboy26 - January 21, 2012 reply

Yeah...

that part of the story didn’t really bother me, nor did the part about the candy wrapper. I tell the kids at school all the time to clean up after themselves and not leave garbage on the floor. That seems like the right thing to do, to encourage them to take ownership of their environment. I liked Pioli and didn’t like him at the same time from the piece. Things I didn’t like, not allowing employees to interview without the PR “police” present and not answering any of the Star’s questions and making Mark Donovan do it. The latter reeks of cowardice and a lack of accountability, which would also translate to hypocrisy considering Pioli loves talking about accountability. The jury’s still out and I need more information to really have a strong opinion.

(puts on best weasly Nazi officer voice)

“Your papers please”……………….Chiefs employee fidgets nervously an hands over papers………..“Ve haf ways of making you talk, you know”

G.L. - January 21, 2012 reply

Tired of hearing it

i am tired of hearing about how terrible Pioli is because of this ridiculous story by Babbs. The whole story is nothing but twisting information from employees who were not getting the job done. Everyone that worked there in the Herm Edwards days deserved to be fired.
We have had 2 solid drafts, not perfect, not the deals of the century, but solid.
I am excited about Romeo as the head coach. Romeo’s demeanor is about as polar opposite the accusations of Kent Babbs as you could possibly get.
Were is Haley in all of this? The primary accusation is that Haley thought his phone was bugged? is anyone interviewing him? Why not? Because none of this is true.
The only thing fans should be worrying about is who will be our next OC? That will determine whether or not we win football games next year. If I remember correctly that is what matters, isn’t it?

ET9691 - January 21, 2012 reply

No, the primary accusation is not the bugging.

It is the fact that many people that work there believe it could be true. It’s also the fact that multiple employees (current and former) fear being seen together because of possible reprisals. It’s also the fact that the Organization denies using “fear and intimidation” yet requires PR monitors sit in on interviews.

All of that is true. A Fact. Not necessarily that the reprisal would happen, but that many, many people believe it. It is unhealthy, and while some people on this site think it’s not a big deal, there are many who think it’s a huge deal. We’ll likely be the ones discussing this.

As to winning… If this were the only way to win (and it’s not), I’m still not sure I’d be on board with it.

former enmployee...

kc_okerix - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

Who have good reason to cast the team in a bad light, but also might be telling the truth.

It goes both ways; the truth here is somewhere in the middle if you ask me.

+1

for NJ

+2

the fact that many people that work there believe it could be true.

So, it’s a fact if people that work there believe it could be true. What if some of the people that work there believe it is probably not true? Is it still a fact?

Actually, the personal cell phone tampering is the only thing that is beyond the pale. The rest is dirty laundry, and if employees don’t like the organization and think it somehow interferes with their life, they should simply GTFO. I’ve been in crappy companies, and I’ve left them. The companies are still there, and still operating pretty much the same way (as current employees will attest and still go back every day) and I move on with my life. BFD.

Lucky man. Usually I was chained to keeping health insurance for my family.

I’ve been in crappy companies, and I’ve left them.

So, it’s a fact if people that work there believe it could be true.

Yes it is. It is probably a fact that not all workers think that. They are not exclusive. I (and many) find the fact that many employees believe the organization could be this petty and small minded to be an issue. Evidently you do not.

Amen, Brutha!

71-South - January 21, 2012 via Android app reply

You're right. Winning matters the most.

But this will do nothing but hurt the team. Coaches and FAs are not going to want to come to KC, and if they do, they will want higher salaries to do it.

If Pioli’s allegedly Orwellian management style had paid off and we were winning games like crazy, it would be a different situation. Everyone wants to be on a winning team, even if the GM is a bit of a control-freak.

Unfortunately, the Chiefs are not a winning team. No one wants to work in a micro-managed, joyless work environment just to finish 7-9.

2006-2008 - 10 wins

2009-2011 – 21 wins

The expectations people have for an instant turn-around are amazing…. Because the Pats won a SB in year two, were people expecting the same here?

I've got 15 wins for 2006-2008

Still an improvement, but not quite as drastic as you make it look. And a lot of that 6 game difference can be credited to Carl Peterson’s draft picks.

I’m not anti-Pioli. I’m all in favor of giving him time. I’m just saying that he hasn’t done anything here in Kansas City to deserve carte blanche from the media and the fan-base to do whatever the hell he wants.

As much as I support a business having "one message" and sticking to it...I agree with you, joplin.

There’s got to be a plan for moving forward, and everyone needs to be on it…but at the same time the plan needs to show results.

Clark and Scott have to be accountable to us—we pay their bills—just as their employees need to be accountable to them.

Rec’d for truthiness…

You're right

For some reason I always (unintentionally) count the 4 wins in ’09 against both regimes.

Still, I’m generally satisfied with the progress the team has made…I don’t think the real progress has shown up in the W/L record yet. I think it looks like a perennial playoff team for the next decade.

joblin, you had it right til you started overthinking and qualifying it

this is all you needed to say:

No one wants to work in a micro-managed, joyless work environment

Is THAT way you're not in public schools anymore?

…wait, maybe that was just the district I worked in.

/sigh

The poor children…literally, poor kids just becoming footnotes in some Dept of Ed report. Education was a great training ground for the business world, in good and bad ways.

oh man, the stories I could tell you ...

but then people would think I was really Kent Babb, or blow it off as just one more “disgruntled former employee” with an axe to grind and no credibility

hmmmm … sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

See, I had a Babb-esque experience with a prior employer...but I know my own reasons for wanting to rat them out.

Many good, legitimate reasons and many not so good and selfish. (I mean, we’re talking about a valued cultural institution in the state of Iowa being run into the ground here. A bad all-around deal).

BUT…I know not all of my intentions would be good.

That’s what I bear in mind when I think of the sources in KC….they’re not really wrong, but they aren’t right either. Some things they speak of will be misremembered (I’ve been corrected on things in my situation), some things they REALLY have no idea about and are speculating (I’ve done it with my situation w/ former coworkers), and some things are spot-on.

/shrugs

It’s why eyewitnesses are the easiest to discredit in the court system, too…every pair of eyes (or ears) see/hear things a little differently.

Iowa has valued cultural institutions?

wow, I never knew … thank you ;-)

Punk Ass :P

Excuse me, I have hogs to slop, lol

No, they'd much rather work in a close-knit family environment

and go 2-14, right?

is that another way of saying

that if you win, you don’t need to be held to an ethical standard? That is bullshit imo and it’s no wonder the U.S. has become a third world country if that’s our standard.

we have standards? ;)

yeah the gold standard

uhh,,.. wait

tomachop - January 22, 2012 reply

but they were a happy family at 2-14!

I agree with ET

I also thinking about free agency and the draft other than that, the circus of the story and the Chiefs front office is nothing but hot air and ill feelings…. So far till it is proven I am just dismissing it

Battle AXE - January 21, 2012 reply

ET - and your source for this claim is...???

Because none of this is true.

By the same logic you use regarding Babb’s or Haley’s veracity – where is your proof for this statement?

Haley likely cannot speak to the media post-firing due to contractual terms preventing him from doing so – standard in most of the coaching contracts. That much has been previously reported.

I would think that with the family ties that Haley

has to Pioli, he has been asked not to besmirch Pioli in the press. Let’s see if Haley keeping his mouth shut ends up in him getting hired to a job that may have Parcells fingerprints on it.

Aiken_Drum - January 21, 2012 reply

Great...

Now we will never know the secret to a 7-9 season.

dbowefosho - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

I LOL'd at this

I always thought

that Dallas put in a claim on Orton to keep him from Chicago since they might have been fighting for a wild card spot. This makes it sound like they really wanted him as a backup.

Streetcleaner - January 21, 2012 reply

team is on the right path, roster is improving by the year, holes are disappearing

yes there is a qb issue, yes there seems to be some issues at arrowhead, but people like flowers still want to play for kc, ill take that as a good thing.

pay carr, deal with bowe as you will, and another solid draft=watch out afc. seriously, this team is pretty much there, talented, and if healthy one of the better well rounded rosters in the nfl.

now fix the lines, pay the carr, and its all good

i prefer the quiet, dont let the secrets out of arrowhead, however if what is being said about pioli is true, thats prob not a great way to go about it, but its a multi billion dollar business, so i get it.

as someone who was very pro haley, i think you have to look at what pioli has done in a small timeframe, and thats revamp our entire aging and slow roster, get the most out of the remaining talent in new positions and outside an ugly 09 draft for all teams involved, hes done well drafting as well as trading on draft day. you like kendrick? free justin houston? me too

SDChief - January 21, 2012 reply

I agree on Pioli.

While not perfect on the football side, overall I approve of what he’s done there. This other crap? No thanks. Don’t see how it helps at all.

Agreed

Ill take what’s happening now over 4-12, 2-14, and 4-12…dark ages right there…I’ll take 7-9 over those seasons

NJChieffan16 - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

I'll take an organization I can be proud of and playoffs

Good organization succeed. Pioli has damaged the Chiefs reputation and he has a dysfunctional management style.

Nothing a playoff run cant cure.

I don’t remember too much ado in 2010 about secrecy

plenty of secrecy in 2009 and 2010, but it was glossed over and overlooked as the team began winning

Tried to rec your comment

now showing as a flag. (?)

It rec'd. They always do that.

thanks Xian ... as go-sal said, glitch in the system ... it will show as flag (actually not even that, just a mysterious action) until you refresh the page

you can blame a good part of that on King Carl ... delaying the rebuild, screwing around with Over The Hill FA's in 2005 and 2006

then too, he did it because he knew Lamar was soon to be leaving and he was hoping for a last run at glory on the heels of the Vermeil era, can’t fault him for that, even if the methods and end result were suspect

and remember that last year you noted was with Pioli (oh yeah!)

no, this is disgusting …

Recorded an appearance w/a local TV station today. Hour later, reporter called, said Chiefs caught wind; called station. Now spot won’t air. Kent Babb on Twitter

sad to say that this website (which has nothing to do with the organization or situation) is now sadly a huge misnomer … as of now there is no arrowhead “pride” left

but on the bright side: we’re finally getting the “national media attention” that a lot of people have been whining about!

Quite honestly

I still have pride in the team I root for…

NJChieffan16 - January 21, 2012 reply

so do I ... in the TEAM, not much in the MANAGEMENT at this point

I still don't see what's so bad about that.

So, Kent Babb

says he recorded a spot with a TV station he won’t name, and the Chiefs caught wind within an hour (how?) and the reporter he won’t name tells him the spot won’t air. Yep, solid facts based in irrefutable proof that the Chiefs have iron-fist ability to control local media outlets. I can see why you are so up in arms.

Beginning to see a pattern with Babb here.

Wonder if he’s beginning to see himself as the Bernstein or Woodward of our time (In KC)?

x

that guy is crazy lol

Lucasjr5 - January 22, 2012 reply

It was a tweet, for Pete's sake, not a dissertation. More facts may be forthcoming..

Hence, on of the problems with "tweets". ban them.

Do you think he is lying?

SD ... anyone could have revamped the roster, Pioli isn't some magic miracle worker from Patriots Heaven

and I realize it’s a business … but it still doesn’t have to be this way, one doesn’t have to be vindictive and petty and mean to be successful in business

Walmart <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Mom & Pop Shops

And all Walmart DOES is Win.

ArrowSpread - January 21, 2012 reply

this illustrates my third world point from earlier...

Sorry Pioli did not revamp an aging roster.

That was Herm and Carl, in 2008 the Chiefs had the youngest roster in the NFL. at an avg. age of 25.9 yrs old.

ws76 - January 21, 2012 reply

Stop with the facts and logic!

:-)

This is all about how Pioli is a monster, the Chiefs are a rotten, tyrannical organization from the inside out, everybody is quitting, they can’t find anybody to work there, and Pioli really isn’t any good at turning around a poor organization that has gotten sloppy and content!

Pointing out facts will get you no where with these pitchfork and torch-wielding mobbers.

Show us something Pioli

Until Pioli steps up and shows us fans that he is really committed to winning,what else are we to believe? this coming off season will be criditical in his decisions to improve the team.He is off to a good start by naming romeo.

chiefsfool - January 21, 2012 reply

mama always said

Believe what you read especially statements from former employees that were fired. If you have something go to court instead of blowing it up via the media. Sorry but I need some credible evidence. Ridiculious you all are turning your back on an organization on unproven statements from FIRED employees. The statements about the company I work for from fired employees is not great either which is probably 90% of the case everywhere.

kc_okerix - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

Agreed!

Did you mean, Mamma always said, “never believe what you read”?

No was saying that’s what everyone else’s mamma must of taught them.

kc_okerix - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

mama always said

To read the article if you are going to bitch about it.

It was former AND CURRENT EMPLOYEES.

manofnothi - January 21, 2012 reply

There is utter hypocrisy here

People bitch about the media, mostly when the write/report on things they don’t agree with.

When they already have a preconceived idea, then they cling to it like it’s their first born. Most of the people that are taking this as fact already had their bias against Pioli.

It works exactly the same way with politics.

Employees, current and former, always complain about new regimes in their company.

I could care less about what goes on in the operations department of the Chiefs.

I work for a company...

That is on it 3rd CEO in 4 years plus many other changes. Its amazing to hear the rumors that come out of competing companies that are then spread by our agents. They are completely off base and we don’t have the media breathing down our throats

groundedchevy - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

Of course not, you don't work there.

Do you care about sweat shops and child labor? I’m guessing no.

Seriously?

You are comparing the working for the Chiefs to sweat shops and child labor?

of course he isn't ...

he’s making a remark about the previous comment, and the overall stance that many people take in terms of “winning is all that matters” and “reports from the media” …

of course a company that uses child labor will deny those reports (wouldn’t you?) then turn attention to their corporate profits and/or low-priced merchandise

Yes, in fact did, that and worse

His quote, “Do you care about sweat shops and child labor? I’m guessing no”.

That’s even worse. He’s suggesting that because he, or some of us think this article may be total bullshit, or partial bullshit, we don’t care about children.

That’s HIS quote.

those preconceived notions go both ways ...

Maybe it's your preconceived notion that everyone has preconceived notions?

I have been pretty consistent in defending Cassel/Haley/Pioli since they arrived. But this behind the scenes look at the toxic atmosphere at Arrowhead is changing my mind about many things. I’m beginning to believe that a fish rots from the head.

Ewww dude.

haha

nice

not really

Ya and the current employees didn’t seem to have much bad to say…

kc_okerix - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

Right, at least not the one's the Chief's PR department lined up and monitored.

Even the ones they didn't had mostly positive things to say.

But the monitoring only matters if it helps your point, I’m sure.

or doesn't matter if it helps yours?

I think it's irrelevant altogether.

You don't believe that someone

might have been less likely to speak ill of the organization with a member of the organization listening in?

Seems likely they would guard their words carefully

but no one has made bossman budge an inch so far.

I guess he has an opinion, like you do

Not sure why you respond to EVERY post, whether directed to you or not?

Opinions are open game for scrutiny. Opinions are not sacred. Opinions, if you are going to offer them, should be defensible.

I'm sorry, do I need your permission?

Oh, that's why. Have fun.

Because only electriclight is allowed to speak, clearly.

current un-named employees

I could say I talked to 50 current un-named employees that love working on the business side of the Chiefs organization and that the new regime has helped them focus on details they had over-looked for years, and that they feel more marketable should they look for employment elsewhere, and you’d believe me, right?

If you were a reporter for a newspaper

with a history of good stories and no known issues with lying, yes I would.

maybe Mama said "believe only what you want to believe"

I don't believe that.

nice!

dude, this issue is now about

the Babb tweet. Your opinion of the story doesn’t matter anymore. How do you feel about corporate organizations bullying reporters because they don’t like their reporting? I for one think it’s borderline criminal and a disservice to fans.

So is spreading false rumors that harm an entities reputation.

kc_okerix - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

false?

what was the tweet? I missed it

It's the third link

in Arrowheadlines.

Recorded an appearance w/a local TV station today. Hour later, reporter called, said Chiefs caught wind; called station. Now spot won’t air.

Recorded an appearance w/a local TV station today. Hour later, reporter called, said Chiefs caught wind; called station. Now spot won’t air. Kent Babb on Twitter

Thank you both

again

Kent Babb doesn’t name the TV station, or the reporter, or even suggest how the Chiefs might get wind of this alleged recorded TV spot within an hour, and everyone thinks it’s the rock-solid truth.

Why would you think it is anything other

than the truth? Is he lying?

so you attack a story

for lack of evidence by offering an opinion that is what the Star is doing without any evidence. Okay, I get it.

Chiefs will win the 2014 Super Bowl... Bank it!

It just occurred to me that the 2014 SB will be played in New Jersey at Met Life Stadium, the home of the Giants, and their little adopted, loud mouth, bratty brother, the Jets.

I am on full disability, and believe me, in New Jersey, with two kids, that leaves about one dollar extra per month so I’ll never be able to see the Chiefs, unless they play …. in New Jersey.

After over 50 years in NJ, I know enough rich people, many with season tickets to both teams, I’ll be able to weasel a ticket for my son and I.

Put it in the bank, it’s in the cards.

Jason Drue Keith - January 21, 2012 reply

Let's play in that Super Bowl then

I’d be happy with that. Please be right! Lol

NJChieffan16 - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

Wouldn't it be nice...

…to win some playoff games sometime?

Yeah,

that was a sad quote.

What's a playoff game?

I was born in 1993 and have never seen the Chiefs win this “playoff” game u speak of. Do yet really exist?

NJChieffan16 - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

What's a playoff game?

I was born in 1993 and have never seen the Chiefs win this “playoff” game u speak of. Do they really exist?

NJChieffan16 - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

Wouldnt it be nice to be one of the top four teams in the nfl period

Remember the good old days,like the len dawson days,then the big year after year marty days to where everybody was afraid to play the chiefs.at least we were consistant getting to the playoffs,we just couldnt win that one big game.that was the glory days at arrowhead stadium.then somewhere down the line things turned for the worst.we can get this turned around fans,just look at the 49ers this year.we just got to believe in our system,and the players have got to want to win,instead of just drawing a pay check.i hope im alive long enough to witness this one more time,Go Chiefs……….

chiefsfool - January 21, 2012 reply

Amen, brother

Couldn’t have said it better. I loved it when everyone feared the Chiefs. When we made them play our game. Our defense is right on the verge of being there again, and it has this old fan ready for ‘12. I sure wish there was a way to involve Marty in making us a total team again. Well said, chiefsfool, and rec’d.

trlwyr - January 21, 2012 reply

Just win, and nobody will give a crap

Something tells me Kent Babb just got his last invite to Arrowhead….

Hunt should give Pioli his last invite

Unfortunately, Hunt is a big part of this problem. Clark is a petty dictator masquerading as a business man. This isn’t how good organizations are run.

my impression of Hunt from pressers

is that he’s a dumbass, more than likely being led around by Pioli, not the other way around. They need to find the one with the IQ in the family to run this show.

Jason Drue Keith - January 21, 2012 reply

Fair Analysis?

The one observation that I have made is look back at all of the smiles Haley had on his face when he first arrived. He was having fun. Then, we start hearing rumors come out(from God knows where) about a strain in the coach/GM relationship between Haley and Pioli. As these rumors kept circulating, you could gradually see the smiles diminish and were replaced by frowns. His appearance changed from being clean shaven to being un-kept! Mix in Pioli’s inability/unwillingness(depending on who you talk to) to land higher value free agent targets, and it appears that a certain level of “sabotage” took place. That sabotage was either done on purpose OR as a result of a GM who was too stubborn to deviate from “his plan!” The injuries this past season exposed Haley due to losses on the field BUT they also exposed Pioli for not building a team that could survive mass injuries. Pioli took some of the blame BUT Haley paid with his job!

Well I look at the same roster Romeo had for 3 games

He easily could have went 3-0 with it if a field goal wasn’t blocked. Could have got into the playoffs. I think Haley wasn’t coaching good. I mean, have we forgotten the rumors that Haley was tyrannical?

NJChieffan16 - January 21, 2012 via mobile reply

except he had a healthy Orton who now knew somewhat of the playbook instead of cassell/palko & who knows what in stanzi

sodablaster - January 21, 2012 reply

except he didn't have a healthy cassel or he wouldn't have orton... think

That is quite a bit of conjecture

..based on one man’s shaving habits.

There are two kinds of coaches in the NFL

The ones that have been fired, and the ones who will be fired.

IMO, Haley had it coming a lot earlier.

This stuff with Babb is getting out of hand and leaves me feeling hollow about the Chiefs.

I guess what I find strange in all of this, is that the Chiefs FO, PR or Brass have made no real conservative effort to prove that these accusations are false. Sure they have said they are false but the “accusations” that Babb reports from Haley are Federal Crimes and are damaging to the organization as a whole. Candy wrappers, and closed curtains, along side a few of those interviewed (both current and former) claimed it to be a fearful work place could be seen as libel/slander or just plain ole’ defamation.

If this is just Babb dribble and is the result of libel then the Chiefs organization can sue Babb. Easily. Chiefs- Plaintiff
1. Chiefs prove that the article was damaging in reputation to at least ONE person
2. Chiefs prove that the article was published.
3. Another party republishes the original story can be just as liable (I’m not sure that a spin on this by other websites quailifies but it very well could with the linkage to the original story by Babb)
4. The Chiefs, or specific names, are identified in the “publication”
1-4: Check, Check, Maybe Check and Check.

If taken to court, any witness is protected under PRIVELAGE and their statements cannot be used against them outside of the courtroom. So “unidentified” current employee can then speak openly in court and is protected by this law.

So what’s the hold up, Chiefs? If this isn’t true, why not make a strong stand and sue Babb? They are within their rights to do so. But then again…courts have a way of finding out the truth in the end. Which is my own speculation that the truth could be more damaging that what Babb reported.

EricaSp - January 21, 2012 reply

Courts rarely find the truth in matters like these

More often than not, it simply turns out to be a business deal that lawyers cut. People make their money, insurance companies have their lawyers, the company has their lawyers, and the employee has their lawyers and they go after each other for years.

Trust me on this one. I was on the ass end of one of these and it sucked in a way you can’t imagine. It had NOTHING to do with truth.

Lastly, I think Pete King said it best. Todd Haley is making accusations that violate federal laws. He better have proof.

Understood

This was more about libel info and so forth. I can only imagine it’s hell in a court case such as this and really don’t expect them to do anything of the sort. It’s easier to sweep and move on. But the Babb tweet makes me sick. Control is out of hand.

Sorry you had to go through that, it sounds awful.

EricaSp - January 21, 2012 reply

Where has Haley made accusations? Babb's is simply reporting on things Haley felt or suspected.

If you are the head coach of an NFL team

And get fired, and then immediatley go on record saying you “felt” your office and phone were bugged and tapped, you better damn well give a reason.

This is a story that gets reported on ESPN, CBS, etc.

He’s not the manager of a 7-11.

He’s not the manager of a 7-11

nope, just a 7-9

That's because they didn't play 18

Unless you sign a nondisclosure agreement as part of continuing to get paid.

you better damn well give a reason

Then he shouldn't have opened his mouth at all

Haley made allegations...

Babb reported them. Haley looks paranoid delusional. Everyone else is pretty much un-named, except for Donovan.

Haley isn't the one going around closing all the blinds at Arrowhead

^this

OMG!!!

CLOSING BLINDS INDICATES SOME VAST CONSPIRACY AND EVIL EVIL INTENTIONS!!!

Babb didn't accuse the Chiefs of anything in his article.

He reported what people told him about their thoughts and beliefs of what’s going on inside the organization. He didn’t claim those beliefs were true, just that they were pervasive and consistent among the 24 former and current employees he interviewed.

Todd Haley did

If I remember right...

The article never said a whole lot about Todd Haley. It only said that he was going to call Babb from a number he wouldn’t recognize. Our imaginations have filled in the rest (as Babb intended, I’m sure).

Haley said he his phone and office were bugged

Or, that he thought they were… I’ll have to go back and find the exact wording. That’s what started the whole article.

Babb has also said

that the phone call from Haley from a number he won’t recognize has not yet happened. So, you can count on what from Haley? His allegations are taken as truth, and his inability or unwillingness to follow up are overlooked, and the mob wants to lynch Pioli.

Babb then tweets (see Rob Lowe) and the mob again freaks out, even though Babb again will not identify the TV station or reporter involved in the alleged taping.

Haley suspected his phone was tapped

An accusation would have been in quotes or from his attorney.

Anyone who says Haley accused the Chiefs of tapping his phone isn’t thinking clearly. Beyond that, why did so many current and former employees suspect the very same thing? That’s been reported by SI.

Exactly. Everyone spinning the article any which way they want.

Haley has not made any public accusations.

The article can be seen as damaging to their reputation despite his belief which was clever.

EricaSp - January 21, 2012 reply

How about Haley?

Is it a coincidence that he doesn’t have a job yet?

There are millions of people without jobs these days.

apparently, no NFL team is looking

for a paranoid delusional… maybe one of those spots will open up for him soon.

Browns are always looking

Babb is a seasoned reporter

That libel suit would be a waste of time. I remember people used to threaten me with libel suits from time to time as they were throwing their little temper tantrums about my crime or city hall coverage and I would always, say, “Go ahead. Make my day.” Nobody ever actually sued. If a reporter attributes to others in the article, there is no case. Now, blogging on the other hand is a much more slippery slope. It is easier to sue a blogger for libel because there is little to no attempt at fairness or balance and little attribution.

Why would you hire Haley

What has he really done to make somebody want his big ego destroying teams.all he done was take the chiefs down to the limit until of his firing PALCO are you kidding me,stanzi could of done just as good if given a chance.this all proved he didnt know shit.

chiefsfool - January 21, 2012 reply

He was a good coordinator/receivers coach

He interviewed with the Jets. There are a lot of teams with a lot of needs. He won’t get a HC gig, but lots of other jobs.

Im curious

if all of these things are supposedly true. Then where are the police reports that were filed for this illegal bugging of phones, actually where are these phones even at. I mean if you thought your phone was bugged wouldnt you file a police report and turn the phones over to them to investigate? And if all of these employees were treated so badly then where are the documents to support these claims. I mean if so many people were treated so badly dont you think that at least some of them would have filed a formal complaint with the HR department?

badassz1987 - January 21, 2012 reply

you're kidding

And if all of these employees were treated so badly then where are the documents to support these claims. I mean if so many people were treated so badly dont you think that at least some of them would have filed a formal complaint with the HR department?

that’s like going to the SS because you don’t like the policies handed down by Hitler

Oh BS ups

The Chiefs don’t have far reaching and ultimate authority of the police of this nation.

His quote, if you read it, was about going to the HR department.

ah.

I skimmed it too quickly.

no, he's not kidding

If you are fired by an organization and you do not have a formal complaint logged in the HR department, it will be next to impossible to win any third party arbitration for, say, unemployment benefits if the company says you were fired for cause.

Going to the HR department is a logical course of action.

Nuh uh!!

Because he made a random Nazi reference, it’s 100% true!

it's called an analogy ... look it up someday

I looked this up ;)

exactly what I was just thinking

I dont know to me if something illegal is going on and people run to the media and not the police then I tend to not believe anything they have to say, they are either just looking for their 15 minutes or they are looking for a quick payday.

Now I’m not saying it couldnt have happened cause in todays business anything is possible, but if this is true, then why in the world would Hunt and Pioli risk federal charges of tapping. If you cant trust the people working for you that much then fire them.

banshee_01 - January 21, 2012 reply

Let's assume that no tapping of phones happened.

The rest of the article still makes the Chiefs look petty and distracted by policies that don’t really make the team on the field and better or more likely to win.

Do we think New England’s silence is why they are good this year, or Brady, Gronk and the crew?

It was written to make them look like that.

The truth could be that some of these things that happened were actually incidents that happened, that Pioli used as object lessons, and that he moved on from quickly.

New England's silence is on the business side.

The Patriot’s success is on the football side. People keep overlooking the obvious, which is Belichick is no Haley. And vice-versa.

I'll give you an example...

Had a vet tech friend who got fired illegitimately. She thought about suing to get her job back but then she realized if she did, she would never get a job in the industry again. She would’ve been blacklisted for going after her employer. Welcome to Amerika and how things really work not how we think they work after watching a bunch of bogus television programs and movies that paint a romanticized picture of our rapidly decaying country.

yup ... happens all the time

sad, very sad

Most of these people are in their 40's and 50's. A lot of them retired from the team and are now receiving their pension.

And please, did your friend have an accusation of a felony of the magnitude that phone tapping would be?

Why would she want to go back to a company

that fired her illegitimately? Wouldn’t she prefer to simply work elsewhere?

Suing is a long, expensive process. Taking your talents to another employer is much easier. Yep, this is America.

So...Is there really a crashed alien spacecraft hidden at Arrowhead?

Area A1? Where’s Will Smith when you need him?

Wichita Chief - January 21, 2012 reply

As I told a friend this morning,

for those saying they don’t care what happens in the Chiefs front office as long as what is going out on the field is of quality, I guess some of us just think treating people with respect and dignity is important.

KCMizzou - January 21, 2012 reply

and sadly, some people do NOT think that

some of us just think treating people with respect and dignity is important

totally rec’d

Thanks KCM & rec'd

Absolutely…

treating people with respect and dignity is important.

The end does not justify the means. If one takes that “winning is all that matters” logic, it’s no different than saying it’s ok to rob a bank as long as the robber donates some of the money to charity.

So, Kent Babb is treating

people with respect and dignity? He tweets allegations with no supporting information, and we think the Chiefs organization is to blame? Babb has no vested self-interest?

if Babb's tweet is accurate...

The Chiefs need to write a story about it, and the media (like that TV station) need to participate and show some solidarity. Why would any self-respecting TV station throw another member of the media under the bus because of a call from the Chiefs (and WHO made this call and what did they say exactly?) If the Chiefs are going to declare war on the media (and maybe they’ve been at war the whole time and we just weren’t paying attention), then the media needs to respond with some solidarity and a lot of hard news stories focusing on the Chiefs bullying tactics. Going to the war with the media in this case is pretty much the same as going to war with the fans, not a smart business decision. We shouldn’t tolerate this kind of crap. We have the leverage to stop it, especially the season ticket holders.

Well, probably because the management of said media doesn't think life is a soap opera?

It's fine if you think the Chiefs calling around and

black balling a reporter because they disagree wit his stories is ok, then good for you. But please don’t pretend that to have concern about it is to be participating in a “soap opera.”

I actually do agree with that.

If I owned a business and I was getting bad press from a story that was written so the one item that didn’t have any substantial evidence in it was what was focused on the most, you’re damn right I’d start calling stations and either appealing to their journalistic integrity, or telling them I’d cut ties.

What Babb did was wrong. Not the Chiefs trying to run damage control.

I’d have been fine if the article had been solely about how the environment was hard to work in, was a pressure cooker, was stressful, and that management could expect greatness to a fault. That could have been interesting. But no he put stuff in there that Haley intimated at on a whim and BOOM! The Chiefs are now the worst organization in football to a good bit of the country. EVEN THOUGH there are quirks about many different teams that could be similar to the Chiefs.

It’s irresponsible journalism.

and what's your evidence

that Babb’s story is bogus?

and what is your evidence that it's true?

I never said it was bogus.

I don’t know if everything in the story is true or not to call it bogus.

I said the way it’s written is irresponsible. I believe that the former employees didn’t like their jobs. I believe the current employees are generally okay with their jobs. All he’s doing is citing those people.

What’s irresponsible is including the stuff about Haley with no evidence and after Haley never called him back.

Without that stuff, no one would have read the piece. That’s why he put it in, because it’s sensationalism and sensationalism sells.

But sensationalism isn't always good journalistic practice.

In fact it rarely ever is. Their job is to report without bias.

the story wasn't biased, Babb made no editorial comments of any kind

furthermore he gave quotes from both sides of the story … so how is that biased?

seems to me the only bias is coming from the Chiefs … in terms of the story itself, the Chiefs required a PR person to be present for many interviews … and you’re saying that’s NOT biased?

The tone in which he wrote it is.

And the fact he included the unsubstantiated nonsense. It’s subtle, but it’s there. He knows how to cover his own ass just as the Chiefs know how to cover theirs.

Oh, and the Chiefs didn't have pr guys at every interview.

You don’t seem to know how pr works. Of course they’re going to have quality control. It’s also part of the Chiefs’ business to maintain a public image. There’s nothing nefarious about that.

The narrative structure is what leads many to see bias.

It goes something like A, B, A, B, C….

A = Anecdote about life around Arrowhead or strange occurrences
B = Supportive testimony by unnamed source that Babb feels explains anecdote
C = Mark Donovan doing whatever Mark Donovan does. Laughing off but not refuting testimony

There is no causal reasoning between any of these, only to be assumed by the reader in a “Fill in the Blank with Your Opinion On These Damn Yankees Trouncing Corpse of Your Favorite Historically Mediocre Great Plains Football Team”

Hunt refuted it.

Right. Let's look at that section.

Clark Hunt, the team’s chairman and CEO, rejected the notion that Arrowhead is a difficult place to work, but he said there has been an emphasis placed on responsibility. Change, he said, is often uncomfortable.

"We needed a culture that pursued excellence," he said. "One that valued honesty and integrity, one where the employees would be held accountable."

This is followed up by:

Stability has been another matter. In the last three years, more than half the workforce has turned over, and the vast majority of senior staff members are no longer with the team. As dozens have left the organization, with some of the holdovers and new hires trying to adapt to what many described as a restrictive working environment, dread has permeated the franchise.

"The level of paranoia was probably the highest that I had ever seen it anywhere," another former high-ranking staffer said. "… If you make the wrong step, you might not be able to pay your mortgage."

Draw your own conclusion at the point Babb was making.

What does this have to do with Hunt refuting wiretapping?

There is little about actual wiretapping.

That’s been the sensational part drawn upon, where that was actually an anecdote Babb uses to introduce his story of Lovecraftian madness. The idea of wiretapping is so ludicrous but this environment has driven a man mad to the point to believe the absurd.

I think people are misconstruing the message of the article and its intent on that one section, because its been repeated Ad Nauseum. Re-read the source, its a minor point to paint a bigger perceived problem.

I’m trying to get at where I think the criticism should be placed. Not tangents or accusations or misunderstood perceptions. But the entire article.

Stop being so logical

Zayla will reply to this in 3,,,2,,,1,,

I type too slow!

ha!

beat ya

if it bleeds, it leads

that’s what one my editors used to tell me and we published some really disgusting stories, no doubt. I’m not naive and newspapers do sensationalize, especially editors. And you’re right they don’t always do their jobs ethically or professionally. I agree with you that we need to be skeptical and we need to watch the fourth estate (TV media is particularly egregious) but if true, I can’t defend these tactics at all. It’s playground bully kind of stuff. Even if they disagree with Babb’s story, and I’m sure they do, they shouldn’t have the right to blacklist him. But they will unless the media, the law or we the consumer that finances all of this stands up to them. I’m not all the way to believing all of this is happening but this tweet has moved me to 60-40 territory and I want more information.

You didn't word you email that way

What is your evidence

that Babb’s tweet has any basis in reality? Oh, the obvious facts that he lines out, like the name of the station and reporter and the name of the Chiefs employee that called said station?

Okay. Gotcha. Every tweet you read is accurate and undeniable.

You know, you make a lot of sense

But it’s that Stanzi line that worries me about you

The Stanzi signature line is

as accurate and factual as Babb’s tweet.

Except I actually name Stanzi.

Once you get those facts you will simply change your argument.

Facts will alwasy change my argument

It’s kind of like god

Because they get advertising revenue from the Chiefs?

Why would any self-respecting TV station throw another member of the media under the bus because of a call from the Chiefs

so your saying that the Chiefs

are the only big company or organization in this country that runs like this. I work in a warehouse for a very large company and they are strict and hold people to high standards and expect us to do our jobs, we are not allowed our phones on us or ipods and we are expected to pickup any trash or wood or anything on the floor if we walk over it. And thats why they are successful because of attention to details and holding EVERYONE accountable, just like the Chiefs, they arent doing anything illegal, and you know what if you dont like it you can always find another job where they will let you slack off and get away with it.

Guess I should call the paper and report them

I guess I’m different then most on here about this cause I think this story is a joke and shouldnt even be an issue, to me it just seems like employees who were able to get away with slacking before and now this GM doesnt let them and they dont like it

just my 2 cents

banshee_01 - January 21, 2012 reply

I'm all for attention to detail and professionalism

and I hate cell phones (one of the few holdouts on the planet) for what they’ve done to communication, the English language and attention spans, but when did bullying become a part of that? I work at schools and we try to teach kids NOT to bully and we don’t reward them when they do. Fans should not reward the Chiefs for doing the same crap. Now, I agree there needs to be more evidence than just a tweet and the heart of the matter goes to whether you trust a reporter or not. I do trust Babb quite a bit for his reporting over the years but there does need to be more evidence presented before we rush to judge. The most confounding part for me is the Chiefs try to put out a small fire by making a bonfire… It’s just plain stupid. You don’t win by doing this… it just makes you look petty and paranoid, not to mention vindictive, which were some of the points raised by employees in Babb’s story.

One thing worth noting

I really don’t think Crennel would have taken this job if all of this is so obvious.

He comes across as way too much of a professional to throw himself into such a circus. This article made all of this sound like it’s blatantly obvious, as it would have been to him.

He could have found a very well paid job somewhere else, especially as his age, he didn’t need to kiss anyone’s ass for a job.

That’s just a thought.

No Crennel is a puppet!!!

I just know it deep down because I feel it’s true and Kent Babb is infallible.

And you know this......how?

I assume you’re kidding about Babb being infallible.

I forgot my sarcasm font.

It sounds like most of the tomfoolery

is on the business side of the organization. Players and coaches didn’t appear in the initial story.

Todd Haley.

Todd Haley WAS the initial story

I don’t think he’d have a story if it didn’t start out with Haley. At least, not one with the same teeth.

Thing is

his part was very small. But it was at the beginning because Babb wants people to associate that with everything else in the story.

I know, but that's the part that got the attention

Who would care if he started it out with operations people?

Yep.

You and I agree.

That's why I think it's irresponsible journalism.

Yep

irresponsible sensationistic journalism with no merit, truth or basis in fact

… that’s what the Nixon administration said about the early reports on Watergate

Woodward and Bernstein were just irresponsible and making it all up, right? just like Babb …

Babb= Berstein and Woodward.. hahahaha

Except here there literally is no merit to the story.

that's what they said about Watergate ...

… until proven otherwise

Chiefs candy wrapper=watergate, hahahaha

Right. Proven.

That’s the difference here.

Ups, perhaps you overlooked the word literally here?:

That makes it fact.

Except here there literally is no merit to the story.

As in:

“The Iranians are moving back into Iraq, literally at the speed of light.” – Rick Perry

No, there was merit to the Watergate thing.

There isn’t here. Literally.

Good move, quote Rick Perry

Thanks

Just don't do it three times

And I love the little logical fallacy.

Event A is similar to event B, which means that both events and all subsequent facts are exactly the same.

Jesus said He was God incarnate, and so did other people. That must mean that all of them are exactly the same.

Except, it turned out to be Tebow

Hahaha.

Maybe it wasn't obvious. After all, people from different departments are not allowed to lunch together.

I really don’t think Crennel would have taken this job if all of this is so obvious

lol

Oops, sorry, I missed the joke the first time. Good one.

Crennel just wanted a HC again come hell or high water

plus I’m sure a lot of this doesn’t surprise him because he came from the Pats. Keep in mind, Crennel took a similar approach to “family business” while he was in Cleveland. He was not at all forthcoming to the media, part of why fans and the media turned on him as well here. Not a Browns fan but I live here so I’ve seen it all.

What was the TWEET??????

Recorded an appearance w/a local TV station today. Hour later, reporter called, said Chiefs caught wind; called station. Now spot won’t air. Kent Babb on Twitter

Thank you

Someone sent it to me above and again, I don’t know if it’s valid, but I think this whole thing is crazy.

I’ve been a Chief fan for 45 years and I really don’t care who picks up candy wrappers and I don’t care about Kent Babb.

I just want them to win. I have my own real life problems.

The Chiefs are an escape for me, let them deal with their own internal issues. Just too much media.

And frankly, I tweeted back at Kent Babb

I asked for details; station, reporter?

AND HE HAS NOT RESPONDED!

The level of secrecy he displays when asked for actual information is unconscionable!!

:-)

I got a response from him

but he needs to get Star’s permission before he can out the TV station. The media can be pretty secretive, too, when it comes to their own dirty business (like the influence of advertising money on content).

Pats vs Giants; Pats win SB

Just thought I’d throw in some actual football. I ususally tend to root for the AFC as I am an AFC guy. Probably Denver or the Jets would have me root for the NFC.

Bleedingredandgold - January 21, 2012 reply

That's why I hate this story

true or not, it distracts from the important thing: FOOTBALL!

Best article on the "Patriot Way"

ha ha good read, or entertaining at the very least. This guy doesn’t hold back his feelings on those who try to imitate the Patriot Way, including Pioli:

http://deadspin.com/5877580/

Puts it in perspective when people say Pioli needs to make it his own “way”

JMagsKC1 - January 21, 2012 reply

Whenever I read shit like that

I just go down and click on the “About” on the bottom and always find what I want.

entertaining read

but this is not an article, it’s an editorial. It’s sheer opinion with argumentation. I know in today’s society, it’s hard to realize this but that was not an article and Drew Magary is not a reporter, neither is Jason Whiltock. they are columnists and they are paid to give their opinion, often times without any facts at all.

Blog does not equal article

Whoa, Whoa, Relax

When did I ever state this was a factual reporting with insider news on Arrowhead? Let me re-state for all you politically correctors…It’s an interesting and entertaining “piece,” not article since that seems to indicate to some that I am pointing this out as factual (even though I used “entertaining” in the same sentence for all you politically correct individual that missed that cornerstone adjective).

JMagsKC1 - January 21, 2012 reply

no worries

Some of us can get pretty literal, especially without a sarcasm or joke font. lol

Lighten up people, remember, corporations are people too

lol

right

and thus we have RIAA and MPAA and the pending SOPA and more …

thank you to all the palm-greasing lobbyists for your corporate greed that has allowed this great nation to be bought and sold

SOPA will die

Bleedingredandgold - January 21, 2012 reply

Don't bet on it

Whozit from the MPAA was on Fox news, saying that Hollywood would stop supporting politicians if it doesn’t pass (essentially)

Personally, I think getting wHollyweird money out of politics would be a good first step, but that’s just me

Corporations are groups of people.

That means that any right one person has would then be extended to the group.

You can’t start stripping rights from people simply because they group up.

Give me a break ... we'll leave this one alone Justice Roberts

Nice argument, justice Ruth Bader-Ginsberg.

Corporations are NOT people.

You cannot extend personal rights to a business entity. It is not the same. Just because corporations are groups of people, the corporate entity is not entitled to the rights of a person.

I’ll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you

Great post though. Rec’d. Would love that, too the board of directors executed for crimes against humanity. It could go on pay-per-view.

Be the first time I would pay it too

The Supreme Court screwed up.

But so far, corporations can’t vote. They can simply throw unlimited money at the election process… which is too bad.

Stephen Colbert is doing his best

Let's see if my lenders will buy that

Humans are Limited Liability Corporations too

I'm so pissed about this

I wrote an email to Babb (which I’ve never done before) and I’m considering a letter to the editor and to the Chiefs. I encourage others to do the same. In the spirit of transparency, I have cut and pasted it below. His response to it will probably significantly influence my ultimate opinion.

Mr. Babb,
As you probably know, the Internet is abuzz with your tweet. As a former reporter, I was personally offended that the Chiefs did this if in fact it is true. The working climate story and the tweet has caused a lot of dissension amongst fans at arrowheadpride, arrowhead addict and red tribe cinema. The tweet lends credence to your story if in fact it is true but that remains to be seen and documented. If there is any truth to this, the Star needs to back you up by doing a hard news story on this because a lot of people don’t believe it. I’ve had a city hall try to do the same to me so I know how it goes, but I also would like to see some more evidence.
The media also needs to be held to account. What self-respecting media organization throws another member of the media under the bus because of a call from the Chiefs? Who made the call and to whom? Did they threaten to pull advertising? My best guess is KCTV5 considering that is where Pioli did an interview recently.
In any case, if this goes no further, your credibility is going to take a hit. As you know, journalists aren’t viewed as much higher than congressmen in today’s society, and it is imperative that the Star backs you up if there’s any merit to this tweet. The media organization that threw you under the bus also needs to be outed so consumers can see which entity doesn’t stand up to advertisers and maintain their independence and professionalism.
I am considering a letter to the editor because I am so angry about this.
Sincerely,
Nick Wilkinson

You seem to back up all of your opinions

Which is what they are, based on the fact that you are a “former reportert”, whatever that means.

You don’t have a clue as to what’s going on anymore than anybody else on here.

By all means, write all you want. Maybe you will gets some facts, which is what’s lacking in all of this.

former reporter

means I used to be a reporter, nothing complicated. They still make dictionaries and I’m pretty sure former is in there.

So is the word "fact"

Is this the point where I'm supposed to

bow down to your superior logic?

Yep

Such as the word “former”, as in former high school school newspaper reporter. I have no ideas what you mean by “former reporter”. You make it seem as if you were the last one to have integrity.

Ugh.

As you know, journalists aren’t viewed as much higher than congressmen in today’s society, and it is imperative that the Star backs you up if there’s any merit to this tweet.

“as much higher than”

You gotta be shittin’ me. I hope you were a reporter at Adposition Quarterly

OK, that's was funny

Ugh

that’s was funny

this

Adposition Quarterly</blockquote

oops

Maybe he was upset

Fair, benefit of the doubt

it's been a while

so I’m rusty, no doubt. lol. I took that comment from a poll I read a while back about the lack of trust in journalists. It was pretty low, but not as low as the 9 percent who trust members of Congress. I covered city hall in northern New Mexico in the mid-2000’s and crime out of San Jose, Costa Rica, a couple years back. A lot of the hard news industry has disappeared with the explosion of blogging and partisan media, so I moved on. I still miss it from time to time. It was pretty exciting although very low-paying.

actually, I think journalists are

much higher than congressmen… I think a few joints passed around on Capitol Hill would solve a lot of problems.

As someone above mentioned

It’s a “tweet” for crap sake. You’re going to base your indignation and outrage on a freaking tweet????

funny ... 2.7 got kicked off the Chiefs for a tweet

odd how that works, isn’t it

Talk about a straw man...

2.7 got kicked off the Chiefs for a tweet

that’s hilarious.

His behavior, outside that one tweet, had nothing to do with it, right?

I believe Babb did record something, and that the Chiefs may have put the kibosh on it.

I am fine with that. Not sure why you think it’s such a big deal. The Chiefs are trying to do damage control on a bad piece of sensationalism. Babb is as irresponsible in his tweet as he is his story.

As neiowakcfan says above

So, Kent Babb
says he recorded a spot with a TV station he won’t name, and the Chiefs caught wind within an hour (how?) and the reporter he won’t name tells him the spot won’t air. Yep, solid facts based in irrefutable proof that the Chiefs have iron-fist ability to control local media outlets. I can see why you are so up in arms.

I know, huh! say, did you realize that Woodward and Bernstein didn't name their sources?

according to your “logic” they should have …

Babb- Berstein and Woodward, hahahaha

Never said I agreed with how they did their thing at that time.

Sure they did.

“Deep Throat”

Furthermore,

in Watergate, there was an actual investigation and illegal wiretapping was actually happening.

Here, not so much. We’ve got a paranoid Todd Haley saying his personal cell phone may have been tampered with, and really nothing more.

Babb responded

and I’ll post his response if he says it’s okay. It’s interesting but lacking in specifics.

He hasn't responded to me.

What a shocker!

Kent Babb says something, and

It’s interesting but lacking in specifics.

Thanks for posting that Nick.

You represented the fans very, very well in that. Thanks for not coming off as a bias moron.

I imagine that’s why he responded.

Not as a moron, no

Bias, yes

I don't think it's bias

I think Nick is just like most on here in that he wants answers to this and just wants it to end.

But then again, with practically no facts, this whole thing is opinion-based.

Babb gave consent

for me to paraphrase his email to me. So, for those of you who think I’m full of it, this probably isn’t going to help much. My impression is that he feels attacked in the aftermath of the article.

He said the TV station incident happened to him firsthand – he is the witness and the source so he didn’t see a need for additional sourcing. He said he needed to wait for the Star’s editors’ permission before he can out the station involved (and there is no guarantee that permission will come).
He complained about being subjected to childish games by the Chiefs and implied that he was essentially being retaliated against by the Chiefs for his working environment story.
He also said that if he had invented things in his story, he would have been fired by the Star. In other words, the story had been seriously vetted by the Star before publication. He made a comment about still having a job as of this moment but his wording made me think he is at least somewhat worried about his future as a result of all of this.
I had also asked him about Haley and confidentiality agreements. He wrote he didn’t know for sure that Haley had signed one but he wrote it was a standard industry practice and that he knew Herm Edwards had signed one. He said that Edwards was allowed to speak about the team after his agreement expired, which I took as Haley would also be free to give his side of the story once his agreement expires. He said he hadn’t interviewed Haley since he was fired and his wording is specifically interviewed so I don’t know if that means he has talked with him informally. He said he was confident Haley wanted to tell his side of the story but couldn’t for contractual reasons.
I still want more information, which I may never get, but I am somewhat biased toward Babb because as an ex-reporter, I know how it feels when an entity comes after you and tries to keep you from being able to do your job. I have often wondered if Whitlock moving on was as a result of flak from the Chiefs. Now, I hold Babb in much higher regard than Whitlock because he’s a reporter, not a columnist, and I’m wondering if this is just more of the same.

Oh boo hoo Babb.

Feels attacked after writing an inflammatory and controversial story. Some cliche about heat and a kitchen feels appropriate.

Chiefs haven’t attacked Babb. They’re trying to promote their interests, and that includes damage control.

They might just end up causing more damage

which seems to defeat the concept, no? Same thing they (and Haley did) with the Baldwin-Jones fight. Instead of just saying yeah, they fought and we’re moving on, no they act like it never happened and throw tantrums that the media is daring to ask (that tantrum was on Haley). A thought occurred to me that Haley may indeed have been a big player in getting this story to print but that they can’t admit that and it had to be written in a way that wouldn’t get Haley into trouble with his agreement, which no one has confirmed or denied the existence of. It’s just a theory but one that I started wondering about after trying to read between the lines of Babb’s emails. If so, that would actually make me lose faith in the story as just a sour-grapes thing. Still, just not enough information to really know what the hell is actually going on.

The Jones Baldwin fight has nothing to do with this.

Al Davis would have them all in court by now

Is it just me??

Or anyone else sick of the back and forth good cop bad cop front office debate? Oh wait..284 comments, never mind. I guess I need to check back less often until a good ‘ol TJ sucks, JC doesn’t get enough carries or #7 could fill a bowl of soup with his noodle arm debate comes back around. Barf

Wichita Chief - January 21, 2012 reply

No kidding...

This post blew up.

With Berry's "I wonder what they'll make up tonight" comment,

I wonder how the team will react come training camp and Babb is in the locker room.

Being up in Seattle, when the Griffey “Sleepgate” story broke, I remember a few Mariners, Cliff Lee in particular, was answering questions and was asked his 3rd question when he saw Larry LaRue, the man who broke the story, and then said " I can’t talk until he leaves." A reporter then goes “really?” And then Lee just shook his head “yes” and didnt say another word and then just walked away.

I understand this is different in that it’s in the office, not the field, but Berry’s comment leads me to believe that at least he is standing by his GM.

Something to think about

I would imagine Eric Berry has a little more information than most of us.

If actual facts come out

I’ll change my opinion in a heartbeat. Until then, I’m remaining skeptical.

Too much unknown and too much history of bullshit in the papers and “tweet”, forget it.

fair enough

I think we’re all skeptics on here, we just lean one way or the other. I really enjoy this blog because of all of you clever knuckleheads. I think I laugh more (in a good way) from reading these comments than anything else. Now, when I read yahoo news comments, I just get depressed and angry at the idiotic and racist comments.

It turns into politics way too fast in the comments sections of places like Yahoo, MSN, Comcast, etc.

There was an article

My brother sent me. I forget what it was in, but it was about the stupid, moronic “debate” on capitol hill about the bestiality “issue” if you want to call it that, in the Congress.

I never laughed so hard in my life at the comments. I was in tears. Just an article like that had to bring out the best, and believe me, the very, very worst in human nature imaginable.

How so many people can make the direct connection between DADT and animals is incredible.

But shit, was it funny.

lol that's funny.

It is funny though, the things that’ll bring out the most passion in people.

I’m sure it’d be the same if you took someone who hated sports and told them to read the comments on blogs like these, they’d think we are all weirdos.

But then again, I think we are.

It was in Stars and Stripes... this is one of my favorites

I have so many questions about this: If a military man or woman unites with their animal, will the animal have BX and Commisary priveleges, receive military benefits and all that were previously reserved only for heterosexual married couples (i.e. medical, dental, furriering, etc.)?? If a military spouse grazes, will he/she have unlimited access to the base golf course, or do they have to become a member?? If while a military couple are walking on base and the spouse defecates on base property, does the military member have to carry poopoo bags and pick up after them, or will the base road & grounds personnel attend to it? These details need to be worked out…you can’t just go opening the door like this without thinking long and hard about it first!! Plus, sensitivity training needs to be conducted because what if one military member calls another military members sow a pig?

Now HERE'S a tweet:

mrandrewm Andrew Michael
I’d give my right arm to have the mutant ability to regrow appendages I may have lost or given away.