Arrowhead Pride

maybe only 4 years, but yeah

I wouldn’t endorse this one … way too much to give up for a still-incomplete team

At least another 5

The Chiefs are not 1 QB away from being a Super Bowl team. They are at least 4 or 5 players short from being able to contend with the elite teams in the NFL. Trading up for RGIII is the worst thing the Chiefs could do in this draft.

Pickle29 - January 26, 2012 reply

they are 1 year away if that QB is payton manning.

J ray - January 27, 2012 reply

There's this thing called FA

That can also be used to fix team weaknesses.

The one position FA can’t help just happens to be the most important in football: QB.

Very much agreed

Outside of fluke deals like Drew Brees, the answer will not be found in FA. Sooner or later they’ll just have to sack up and find a way to do it in the draft.

TheScootness - January 27, 2012 reply

Yep

There are several very good G’s and NT’s that could hit FA. No QBs though…

There are

But will the Chiefs actually go out and get them? That is the question theyaren’ exactly the most active in the FA market…unfortunately… However they DID pick up Breaston so maybe.

Breaston, McClain, Gregg, Lilja, TJ

All decent FA pickups. But yeah, besides Breaston they haven’t really gone after more “high profile” players. And he was borderline…

Gaither can be thrown in there as well

Was a good OT at Balt, injuries took their tole

Also several very good G and NT prospects after the second round.

WranglinRooster - January 27, 2012 reply

least another 5

without a franchise qb, Chiefs will never reach the SB.there have been 43 SB’s since KC was in SB 4, enuff said.

trchief - January 27, 2012 reply

really?

Peyton Manning won a superbowl with nothing. The chiefs are 4 players away from having a loaded team. DT, 2 GUARDS, AND A Q.B. It wouldn’t hurt to have another d- lineman. If they filled those positions the team would be just as talented as any team in the league. Name one team that is complete from top to bottom. they don’t exist. every team has holes. With the salary cap room we have and the draft, we can more than fill those spots. With a top q.b. we could manage to make a run. If the colts can do it, the chiefs definitely could. top to bottom, we are twice as talented as that colts team. I don’t know about RG3, but a capable q.b. would be worth it. Lets see what he does in the combine. next year would be a better year to get that top q.b.

Peyton Manning won a superbowl with nothing

I think Wayne, Freeney, and Mathis would like to have a word with you…

Do you think RG3 won't make it? Or do you think three draft picks are that important?

RG3 looks like he'll be good

but I don’t see trading all those picks which should net us a starting RT, starting NT, and possibly a TE this year as well as a starter from next year’s draft for one guy. Not only that, but one guy that comes from a spread offense, is small and likes to scramble. One injury to that one guy flushes your entire future down the drain.

RG3 I agree is a high risk.

As for our needs – starting RT can come in round 3, we have a starting TE (albeit an injury prone one) and a WR in Baldwin who should be able to fill a Hernandez role, and no rookie short of Suh is going to start right away at NT – we’d need a FA NT for that.

Non-specific phrases like “all those picks” kinda skew thing unrealistically.

I think we can get a starting NT this year

Or at least, an NT that will become very good. A lot of mocks have Poe, Ta’amu, and/or Chapman available to us in the 2nd round. We do have a TE, but no depth behind him and he has a long history of getting injured. I think we will look for a TE in the 3rd (where you want an RT).

I would love to have RG3. The only way I see that as a possibility is if Pioli goes hog-wild in FA and brings in at least an RT and NT (Gregg may do for one more year) as well as re-signing Bowe and Carr. We will also need depth at TE and RB.

Spending all that money doesn’t seem like Pioli’s style. If he went that route, I’m all for it. I don’t expect ti to happen, though.

cap

we gotta use up some cap space somehow, right? more restrictions on it this year if i’m not mistaken (or does that start next year?) gotta spend it.

I believe it's 2013

If any of those guys turns into a quality starting 2-gap NT his rookie year, I will let you chose a sig for me that I will keep for the whole season.

Fair enough

Even if they may not start as rookies, they look very promising long term. So you’re still looking at trading three starters (albeit eventual starters) for one scramble-prone QB from a spread offense and hoping/praying he doesn’t get hurt.

I expect RG3 will make a team look much better, as long as he stays healthy.

If we were talking about Barkley or Luck, would you make the trade?

No

I’d consider trading our first and third this year as well as next year’s first for RG3, Luck, or Barkley, but that’s still betting the farm on one single player. And that won’t be enough to move into St. Louis’s spot since there will likely be intense bidding.

Yeah, I agree about the bidding thing.

I think we’d have to make a player or two part of the package. Unless RG3 does terribly at the combine. In which case, we might not want to draft him.

Some sad SOB is going to pay far out the ass to move to #2 and grab RGIII

There are a few GM’s (or owners) who are afraid of losing the fans so much that they’ll do ANYTHING to placate them…including throwing a whole draft away to move up and grab one player.

PVChiefsfan - January 26, 2012 reply

An argument could be made that some happy SOB

Will have a game-changing QB for the next decade.

Sacrifice short term to benefit long term. IF you think RG3 is a franchise QB. And most signs point to that being the case.

unless

you count the raiders giving up a 1st and a 2nd for old carson palmer.

keep7925 - January 27, 2012 reply

with the holes we have now, I sure wouldn't

How do you propose ever getting a franchise QB?

Or are you still convinced that a team can win, consistently, without one? If so, well….I’m not gonna copy/paste all the past SB winners here, just go look for yourself.

I've looked myself ... and had this debate before

and it isn’t that I’m against RG3 by any means … rather, I believe we have too many holes to fill in before that ONE GUY makes that much of a difference

and you can’t fill in those holes with the best talent if you trade away the opportunity to get that talent

it’s still a team game and my point is simply that we don’t have enough things fixed to make it worth giving up that much

Look at all the holes GB had this year.

NE made it to the SB with a sub-par defense. And, their O line has never been all that great. We are already a more complete team than either of those.

well, there ya go ... they have one the best QB's in the league, right?

did they make it? did they even make the Conf Finals? why no, they didn’t … and my point was and is that having a great QB is no guarantee of winning anything

Of course not, there aren't any guarantees or it wouldn't be a sport!

It would have been fun to go 15-1 with half our O line injured and our defense playing like crap, though. Or, win the SB with about twenty-eleven players on IR.

It’s a lot more risky to count on an entire team being good and healthy than to throw in with a prime QB prospect.

IOW you'd rather have the 2004 Chiefs for a year or two than all of Marty's teams for a decade

No, I'm not saying we go sign Joe Montana for a year or two,

I’m saying we try to draft him for ten.

fair enough ... but with an incomplete OLine and Defense

and for the next few years no top remedies for that thru the draft while he develops, and when he does Jamaal Charles will about done, Dex could be broken like Dante hall and who knows if we even have Bowe, or Carr .. or …

well, you get the drift

With no Qb that situation is the same

We could have a great Oline, and defense.. but if the QB position is still shit… we wont be going anywhere

why not? it worked for the Ravens ...

For one run

How about sense? Both sides have went down, and are struggling to find balance with a pretty good QB

one run? the Ravens have been doing this for YEARS

look at the old Steelers of the 70’s … powerhouse old-school team, win win win

look at the Dolphins with Marino, one of THE best QB’s ever, right? how many SB’s? right …

it’s a team sport, sport … and defense still wins games :-)

They won 1 superbowl, maybe run wasn't the best word

How about the Bucs? Great defense no Qb=1 ring

how about the Saints, man! wow, all the records Brees set this year ...

what an explosive team! and they’re in the Super Bowl this year because … oh wait, never mind!

wow, how about those Lions! Matt Stafford had a breakout year of over 5,000 yeards passing and they’re in the Super Bowl fir the first time since … oh wait, never mind

Compare the Saints' and Lions' talent with ours.

Maybe sounds silly at first, but go position by position. They are not that much more talented, if at all. Except at one glaringly obvious position.

At least all those teams made it to the playoffs...

And I bet you a good majority of them will be back next year, because of QB play.

so will the Ravens, and the Steelers, and the Texans ...

Steelers ain't goin' nowhere with their QB.

Texans would have been in the SB if they hadn’t lost their QB.

*without their QB.

right, ain't goin' nowhere

didn’t they win with that same guy? hmmm!

I misspelled "without."

Must be supper time for me.

Don’t think you’ll change my mind by posting something at me while I’m gone.

Flacco is one of the more under rated QBs in the NFL.

He’s definitely better than anything we have. And Roethlisberger and Schaub are consistent top 8 QBs.

How many years did we go

and go one and done? One and done isn’t anymore impressive with an elite QB than it is with a mediocre one…just sayin

Really?

Making the playoffs isn’t more impressive than not making the playoffs? Ok then.

Tomahawk29 - January 27, 2012 reply

Yeah bout those offenses

Saints Pats Colts Packers.. lots of rings right there

Go by defenses, who has the best? Take the QBs off those teams and see where they are(example Colts).. put a actual Qb on this team and it would be night and day

http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/01/20/does-defense-really-win-championships/

Your point

is invalid because both teams in the superbowl have top tier qbs in Eli and Tom Brady so i really fail to see your point

Tmac1166 - January 26, 2012 reply

That was supposed

to be to ups

Tmac1166 - January 26, 2012 reply

This is not true

Yeah, I get the drift. A team is NEVER complete, is the drift.

You’re saying exactly what I’ve been trying to tell you. You can’t wait until a team is “finished” to draft a QB because there will ALWAYS be holes that need filling.

fair enough ... I'd just rather get the REST of the team done BEFORE the QB

I don’t believe you build a team around the QB, rather you build the team and then find your franchise guy

You would still have to build the team around the QB in that way

You would have to constantly be reworking the team from guys leaving, retiring, etc

You say "fair enough," but you CAN'T be hearing what I'm saying

or you wouldn’t say

get the REST of the team done

A TEAM IS NEVER DONE

There, I said it in allcaps, it’s now true forever.

you forgot to say CROSS MY HEART AND HOPE TO DIE

You wouldn't know for sure if I did that throught the internet.

Allcaps is the web sign of truth.

well yeah ...

… on YOUR planet

YOU WILL NEVER GET THE REST OF THE TEAM DONE.

There will always, ALWAYS be some weakness on the team. The Pats had weaknesses this year. The Packers have weaknesses. The Giants, Ravens, Lions and 49ers all have weaknesses. You will never, ever have a perfect team.

This is just a silly line of thinking. You don’t want the Chiefs to attempt to get a franchise QB because we need a new RT, NT and possibly a ILB, LG and some depth? Seriously?

no, I don;t want them to TRADE PICKS to get that one QB

We might eventually trade picks for that QB

How else are we going to get him?

I don’t see the Chiefs having this close of a shot at a QB that will go in the top 5 picks for many years after this.

Franchise QBs don’t just grow on trees. The Chiefs are going to have to make a move at some point.

Draft picks

Are a great way to build a team. We’re looking to COMPLETE a team that’s pretty close.

Splurge on NT and LG in FA, bring in cheap competition at RT…

If that’s done, why NOT trade picks we don’t need that much to get a player we DO need?

giving up picks...

is like borrowing from a loan shark. Good teams gain picks and use them as leverage, thus becoming the sharks.

Good teams have QBs and can thus

develop later round guys, bad teams are always trying to surround crappy QB talent with other good talent and they stay picking high

Good teams have good o-lines...

that protect said qb. Otherwise, you end up like the Rams…getting your qb shell shocked. (kind of like what happened to ol’ Happy Feet here.

The Packers don't have a good O line.

The Steelers don’t have a good O line. Even the Pats have a pretty middle of the road O line. The Colts….

The Pack had better 2nd stringers

last year than we had starters. The Pats, come on. I could complete passes behind those guys. Big Ben has gotten killed for several years now. I would have to call them average this year. They did get beat by…ah…Denver

Didn't Rodgers almost, or maybe actually, set a record for sacks?

Pack’s O line was terrible before they started trying to upgrade it very recently through the draft. Then it was terrible again this year because of an epic string of injuries. Pack still got a first round bye because Rodgers covered for that beat-up line.

Look at the sacks Cassel took his 11-5 year in NE, then look at the sacks Brady took in the years both before AND after. Those three years, NE had the exact same starting five. One of those years, they looked terrible. Those three years in NE are the best lab your gonna get on the difference a QB makes in the apparent quality of the O line.

Steelers’ O line struggles have been well publicized for the last several years. They won until Ben got injured.

Hell, I just realized you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing. Anybody who watches ESPN hears about the offensive line struggles on these three teams.

I'm not arguing about a qb making a line better.

I’ve said that many times before. For that matter, so does a good OC, running back, and so on. The fact is most teams prefer to play with their #1 qb intact, and in a pass happy league that is getting harder without a good o-line. If someone fron ESPN thinks NE/GB has bad o-lines they aren’t worth watching

12t - January 28, 2012 reply

Giving up picks is nothing like borrowing from a loan shark

Interest isn’t a factor and it’s a one-time exchange.

sure,

We all loose interest when the team sucks, and we have no picks to make it better, and the qb we just traded them away for gets his legs broke.

12t - January 28, 2012 reply

Sure... for a year, or maybe two

So we’re basically taking a risk by having NOT AS MANY (not none, like you said) picks for a year or two.

Weigh that against 15 years of a genuine QB…

MNchiefsfan - January 29, 2012 reply

AMEN

AMEN (p.s. we pretty much gave are best lineman besides Casey away for nothing to walk right over to Patriots… ) mmmm i give Pioli F for FAILURE! on that…

HometownKC86 - January 26, 2012 reply

Good Lord I'm sick of this

Waters did not play well last year. he was outplayed pretty significantly by Lilja.

Asamoah NEEDED to get on the field, so they had to make a choice between…

A) A younger player who’d had a very good year

and

B) An older player who’d had his worst year as a starter

Hindsight’s 20/20. They made the right call at the time.

Guessing you meant 1994 since we're talking about QBs?

I do have the heebeejeebees about RG3, though.

Big 12 QB…. I’m very interested to see how he does in the passing drills at the combine.

I would support t4rading up next season

I think we can fill enough holes this season for it to be a manageable risk. I’d be just as happy to take Barkley as RGIII.

I'd be happy if we traded down this year to stock up picks.

I think we can trade down twice, once in the first and once in the second, and go into next year with extra first AND second round picks, and still get good guys this year at the bottom of those rounds.

However, I don’t think we can ever fill “enough” holes. Like I was telling Ups, there’s ALWAYS gonna be needs on an NFL team. There’ll be injury, or free agency, or just disappointing performance. But no NFL team will ever be to the point of having just one need.

If we go 13-3 this year and lose in the conference championship game, there will still be lots of people saying “we can’t afford to trade ALL THOSE PICKS with all the needs we have to fill.”

True very true

I won’t be one of them though. I just feel like next season is the year to make the move.

Who knows what the chiefs will actually do though.

I think it depends on what they think of RG3.

Personally, I really like the guy, but I recognize that he’s a VERY risky prospect. However, if there’s a QB prospect you believe in, you should make every effort to get him regardless of where your team build is.

Oh wait! I just realized, you think there might be a time when an NFL team DOESN'T have holes to fill!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!

Another thing to keep in minds

Rumor has it the rams would like to trade down but stay in the top 5. If it’s true the team most likely to score RGIII is Cleveland (poor RG). Even if it’s not Cleveland has 2 1st round picks.

Want him or not I’d bet the browns would make it cost a lot to get him.

I love RGIII. My only concern about him is size. He’s mobile and I really like that in a QB. Particularly when they can actually pass.

I think we’d have better odds of getting Barkley next season. I wish he’d declared this season.

I wish RG3 had gone back to school, too.

It would up our odds

If they were both in the same draft…sigh

The fact that you refer to RG3 as "scramble prone"

Tells me you may have not watched him a ton.

Dude ran a lot because he had a TERRIBLE O-line. He looked to pass first except when his coaches ran a play designed for him to run.

Even when the Oline broke down

RGIII still tried to extend the play, and pass the ball, before bailing out and running with the ball

Exactly

He ran when he had to, but I was very impressed with how long he would extend plays while still looking downfield.

99% of the anti-RGIII people

Are the people who have never really seen him play, see a few youtube videos and thats that

Yep

Guy throw’s the best 40-50 yard passes I’ve ever seen.

Something KC fans have not seen in a very long time

No, one injury and 4 players go down

You say 4 starters but they could just as easily be 4 ho hum players

HIV 2 Elway - January 26, 2012 reply

Amen

Draft picks are valued way too highly.

Everyone always assumes you’ll get at least 3 starters and one stud out of every draft, yet fail to realize if that was true every draft would produce 32 studs and 96 starters.

Which it… well… doesn’t.

He's 6-2, 220 lbs...

He’s not small…

Yep, a little short for your QB

He will get docked quite a bit on his scouting report for:

1) Size
2) Spread offense

Those two alone probably give him a 2nd round grade on our board. He may be off the board all together.

If he's rated in the 2nd round or "off the board all together"

then Scott Pioli is a blind fool that doesn’t have any idea how to evaluate QB’s.

The kid throws a more accurate deep ball than at least half the starting QB’s in the NFL already. Does a very good job going through his progressions to find the open receiver and puts good velocity on the ball. He’s smart and has a good football IQ meaning he’s likely to pick up an NFL playbook faster than your average rookie.

Just because he played in a wide-open offense doesn’t mean shit about his future potential. Cam Newton worked with one of the easiest play books in college football during his single season with Auburn and yet he somehow managed to adjust to NFL route trees and complexity quite nicely I’d say. Saying “spread offense” is just a cop out to avoid truthfully evaluating his skill set.

Also, isn’t the average height for current, starting NFL QB’s right around 6’3? Not to mention, 220 is also a very average weight compared to current starting NFL QB’s.

Newton actually started to do a lo more NFL-esque looks/reads when at Auburn in the final gamea

UnLike RGIII.

ChiefWarPaint - January 26, 2012 reply

His playbook at Auburn was incredibly simplistic

Watch his interview with Gruden on ESPN’s QB Camp (or whatever his pre-draft QB show is called) for an example of what I’m talking about.

You claim RG3 didn’t make those same reads, but what is that assertion based on other than SEC bias or pure conjecture? Not an attack, I’m legitimately wondering; I’ve just never seen anything to validate that statement.

It was simplistic bUt his final games he started to do more NFL looks

He wasnt the raw prospect people made him out to be, RGIII is different Briles kept the same system in place all year. For the most part one read and go, Kendall Wright made up more then half the targets because of this.

ChiefWarPaint - January 26, 2012 reply

Kendall Wright made up more then half the targets because of this.

That could just as easily be considered a product of a terrible line and one legit receiver.

One read and go?

I don’t know if you watched any Baylor ball this year but that doesn’t fit what I recall. RGIII was far more inclined to try to make a play through the air before tucking the ball to run for it. If anything, Newton was the epitome of “one read and go” at Auburn… which is why he ran for nearly 1/2 as many yards as he threw for (which wasn’t much either).

Ochophosphate - January 27, 2012 reply

The knock on him that I've heard most is his mid-range accuracy.

We should be able to see something of that at the combine. Can’t really test his smarts there, but I’m not too worried about that.

That didn't seem to hurt Newton either (combine)

he looked like a total crap-bag at the combine last year imo. Missed a ton of receivers with terrible passes, timing looked bad, drop-backs looked bad. I honestly thought his performance was going to hurt his draft stock but it didn’t. Carolina still snagged him at #1 and he still had a bombastic rookie season.

Ochophosphate - January 27, 2012 reply

Yeah, Carolina is looking like a bunch of geniuses right now.

Only a matter of time before somebody hires away their scouting staff.

Really?

Aaron Rodgers, 6-2
Matt Stafford, 6-2
Tony Romo, 6-2
Ryan Fitzpatrick, 6-2
Mark Sanchez, 6-2
Andy Dalton, 6-2
Christian Ponder, 6-2
Tavaris Jackson, 6-2
Colt McCoy, 6-1
Rex Grossman, 6-1
Mike Vick, 6-0
Drew Brees, 6-0

At least 12 out of 32 starting NFL QBs are 6-2 or shorter, and 4 of them were top 10 passers this year. Using an argument like height against RG3 is grasping at straws.

Tomahawk29 - January 27, 2012 reply

I agree

The same things were being said about Todd Blackledge in 1983, about Akili Smith, about DeMarcus Russell, about Ryan Leaf. A miss like that would set us back not five years, but ten. I don’t care what the vote is. This is too high risk of a move. Too high a percentage of QB’s who are world beaters in college and have all the tools to be the next Peyton Manning simply end up as pedestrian QB’s or worse. True, Tom Brady’s are as rare as hen’s teeth in the late rounds, but we need too much depth and too much at Center and RT to make a wild hare move like this. Maybe a young guy like Joel Thorman can afford to wait ten more years, if a move like this fails. I can’t. The vast majority of the time, a top-of-the-first-round QB becomes a merely good QB. They become the next Jason Campbell or Kyle Orton. There is a difference between being bold and simply stupid.

Bilyous - January 26, 2012 reply

High risk? Count up past Superbowl winners, and think about the risk of depending on a mediocre QB to win one.

And then think about...

The fact that you don’t know till they go pro… yeah it’s a risk and the higher the pick the bigger the risk… UNLESS you already have that pick to begin with.

Why is it less of a risk if you start with that pick?

You use it, and you’ve just lost all the picks you could have traded it for. The cost is the same either way.

Because

If it’s your pick anyway your only using your pick badly… if you trade extra picks to get it then you used multiple picks badly.

What?

Draft picks are worth what they’re worth, regardless how you got them. What you just said is like saying five one-dollar bills are worth more than one five-dollar bill.

Not necessarily

I get your meaning but 2 5 dollar bills or a 5 dollar bill and a 1 dollar bill ARE worth more than a 5 dollar bill.

So it depends on what picks you give up and how many but in this case I think we can agree. It will take more than the worth of one 1st round pick to get RGIII.

If you watched Griffin play at all

you’d realize that he’s primarily a pocket passer that, when forced to run, has a damn good set of wheels on him. He’s a smarter Cam Newton with better accuracy and more polish than Newton could have dreamt of when he hit the NFL. RG3 was a scrambler his first year or two at Baylor, the last year or so he turned into a pocket passer that can pick up big yards when/if the pocket collapses. His accuracy is freakish.

We all saw what Newton did with a remarkably bad team in Carolina. RG3 with a full offseason to learn the playbook, plus Charles, Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Moeaki, McCluster and a good OC (starting to get nervous on this front) and this offense gets very dangerous.

He does look to throw first

so he’s not a Tim Tebow in that respect. But without a solid RT, RG3 would be scrambling a lot. I’m not saying he isn’t going to be good. I think he could be great. I also think that one freaking injury ruins the team if you trade away all those picks and potential starters for one guy.

So because RG3 isn't made of adamantium

we should hedge our bets and stick with a mediocre Cassel or Orton? Sadly, neither of them is taking this, or any, team to a Super Bowl.

If he gets hurt, we’re back to Cassel until RG3 heals up. Does it suck? Sure it does but we can win games with Cassel in a pinch. Am I willing to take that risk to have a QB capable of making our offense dangerous? Hell yes! We benefit more from taking the risk with a QB than by playing it safe and reaching on a RT at #11.

Granted, Barry really is that bad but I’d argue having a QB with a live arm could take pressure off the OL in general. Griffin does a better job maneuvering in the pocket than Cassel and feels pressure in time to evade the sack. His accuracy alone would force teams to drop a pass rusher into coverage more often than with Cassel under center, making Barry’s job that much easier until we can find his replacement.

"All those picks."

You’re using scare tactics on yourself. Just actually COUNT “all those picks” and think objectively about what/who we’d be giving up. Or just look at my comment on this thread where I already did it for you.

One freaking injury to a star QB screws any team no matter what they paid for him.

Heh ... Yeah ... so am I

Can anyone say: “Maurice Carthon.” A good ol’ former Crennel right-hand man. I’m totally apathetic bordering on depression about the Clark/Pioli regime at this point. (le sigh)

a good OC (starting to get nervous on this front)

LocoLoboChico - January 26, 2012 reply

QB is more important than those 3 positions

COMBINED.

Also, it’s not as though we HAVE to draft players to address weaknesses. That’s what FA is for.

The ONE position it’s practically impossible to find a very good to great player in FA? QB.

There are some decent RT’s to be had in FA. There are multiple VERY good NT’s. TE is not a glaring need.

So why continue to ignore the most important position on the field?

I don't think RGIII is a SB-winning QB, no

Which is what you have to have if you are going to sell the farm.

I am 100% for drafting a QB , because history has shown that is the easiest way to win a championship. But it isn’t just about drafting a QB in the first round, it has to be the RIGHT QB. Yes, KC fans should know this (see: ‘Curse of Todd Blackledge’).

You only sell the farm for Andrew Luck, and I don’t even like Luck that much.

From what I understand...

It’s likely to cost us more like 6 or 7 picks.

Maybe. But I'm curious about what your understanding is on that.

I was really just speaking to this particular post. I recognize that there would likely be a bidding war. But I think it’s pretty hilarious that people repeatedly sum up a 1st, a 2nd, and a 5th by saying “all those picks.”

Honestly

I’m not well versed enough to say exactly what we’ll have to give up I admit. I’ve seen various projections. My reasoning as that there are teams ahead of us that need a QOF as badly as we do perhaps worse (if you CAN need one worse) so I’m thinking he’ll likely be costly.

Now if we could get him for say 3 1sts or two 1sts and a 2nd I’d be for it. Possibly if you threw a 3rd in the mix also. anything above that and I would just as soon wait for next season.

I also feel like there are some good options for replacing Richardson and getting a good DT. I feel like if we can address those two things and get some depth at TE we’re ok. Whether we draft a QB this season or next.

I do NOT want to get a QB this season below RGIII. We already have Stanzi go big or stay home.

Why would I be willing to give up

that many 1st? Because you can still get some real good finds in the 2nd and 3rd rounds when you’re not looking for QBs and you give up less picks leaving more room to draft for depth.

Totally agree with this

I do NOT want to get a QB this season below RGIII. We already have Stanzi go big or stay home.

you can still get some real good finds in the 2nd and 3rd rounds when you’re not looking for QBs

I was talking to somebody the other day on here about finding QBs after the first round. I looked up QBs on drafthistory.com from years 2003 – 2008 (If I remember correctly). The list of “successful” post-first-round QBs I found from those years was NOT pretty…. There were about 10 mediocre to fair QBs, none really better than Kevin Kolb, and 39 others that haven’t done anything in the NFL. Not good odds.

disagree

*assuming they are active in FA, they can fill needs and still have a good young team

stagdsp - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Yeah, 5 years is a pretty strong claim.

Agreed with just about everything you said on defense.

mistamic - January 26, 2012 reply

Question...

You think we can get TWO first round picks for a 1st, 2nd and 5th? I don’t see that happening.

BAyers2929 - January 26, 2012 reply

Wait...

I read that wrong. I want to change my vote. I’m not giving up two first rounders.

BAyers2929 - January 26, 2012 reply

Giving up ONE first rounder, using the other on RG3.

"The argument of Orton or Cassel is both redundant and uninspiring."

There really is no argument. Pioli is wrist deep in Cassel’s ass.

chai1836 - January 26, 2012 reply

He pinky swore

He’s “Not married to him..” Everybody knows a pinky swear from the Don is credible! *Sarcasm

kc_Chiefs_31 - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

No need to pull an Atlanta...

And trade the farm for a BMW when you’re still living in a trailer. Sure, there is a nice solid core to build around, but two 1st’s and a 2nd is a lot to give up for a team with absolutely no depth at most positions.

This team can’t afford to lose those picks at this time.

while i dont like this move

You dont draft depth in the first and second rounds. Those are the rounds for starters. Depth comes in the middle to late rounds. That is still too muchto give up for RG3 though

Chiefs fan in ST Louis - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

No I agree, but when you trade all of these picks, those later round picks end up becoming used for starters.

Yeah but... but... what if it's a really nice Mobile Home?

…and a Mercedes instead of a BMW?

…and the Mercedes can live inside the mobile home?

Ok this is ridiculous.

then we don't really need the Mercedes, we need gas money

Who will be the quarterback that will take us to a super bowl?

Where will he come from? A tree? Thin air? Magic? Where?

if you don't have the rest of the team in place, the QB doesn't really matter much

good and even very good QB’s on bad teams don’t win many games … we’re just not “there” yet

Here

Who will be the quarterback that will take us to a super bowl?

Some dude

Where will he come from?

Some chick’s uterus

pretty much says it all .... props Ocho!

No answer huh?

Answer your own question.

Relax

Ups can take care of himself

Pibbs, you act like this is the only time or year that a very talented QB is or will be available ...

the fact is there are talented QB’s that come out of college every year … and for all we know, Barkley next year just MIGHT be a better option for our team than RG3 THIS year

for that matter, we don’t know that it won’t be THIS year with Orton … and if I had my way with the draft and FA’s it might very well be

So how do we get Barkley next year, then?

I dunno...

I think he’s got the size… but I worry about his down-field vision

Obviously we just...

Draft RTs and ILBs until a QB falls to us in the mid round or later. Duh.

This

And how do you propose we get the first pic next year?

Pioli has information on Goodell that Roger would prefer be kept secret ...

at the appropriate time (next spring) Goodell announces the “trade” that the Chiefs have made with (whatever team has first pick) and it’s a done deal

trust me on this one, I heard it from a guy whose brother eats at a burger joint next to a pizza place and the waitress there has it on very good authority from her hairdresser who happens to be a cousin of Nick Wright

SOOO, no answer.

Just more mediocrity. Reminds you of the Royals.

so, take a shitty team that loses 100 games a year and trade off a few top prospects from their AAA farm team for George Brett

and that wins the World Series how?

More mediocrity. No answer. You are avoiding the issues.

if you say so

The funny part of all this is that I agree with you on Orton.

I would like to see how far he can take us until we can somehow get a franchise quarterback of the future. But sometime or other, the only way they will get one will be with a BOLD move. It will not happen with their heads buried in sand.

and I'm not arguing that Orton is "all that"

I do think he could get us into the playoffs, though … with a better supporting cast around him (OLine, TE depth, keep Bowe,, etc) … toss in depth on defense and I think we have a VERY good team … certainly enough to win AFC West for 5 years

I agree. Except it ain't happening.

it would certainly be easier and more feasible, and more immediate, than trading for RG3

Pioli and Cassel are joined at the hip.

and THAT'S worrisome (if true)

but I know a surgeon …

COOL!

College education finally paying off

Thank God I was here.

+1

I think Peyton Manning proves your theory wrong.

Super Bowl contenders year in and year out to 2-14 with the first pick in the draft. Any team with an “elite” QB is a contender every year, regadless of anything else.

Chiefs447 - January 26, 2012 reply

If you recall

The Colts only made the dance twice. Most seasons they knocked us out then got knocked out themselves the very next round.

God forbid we make it to 2 Sbs and win about a dozen playoff games over the next 10 years.

That would really suck.

Tomahawk29 - January 27, 2012 reply

And what happened to his team when he got injured?

Manning could’ve gone much further with a better team around him.

WE WON 7 GAMES AND WERE A GAME AWAY FROM WINNING THE DIVISION

With 3 of our best players out the entire year, which included a RB that accounted for 40% of our offense in 2010 and a SS that took every snap on defense. This “We’re not a good team” nonsense has to stop. Short of freak injuries to players that account for over half of our production, this is a good football team.

Exactly

This may well be as high as we’re picking for a few years based on our defensive talent alone.

I'm slowly starting to suspect

that many of the people who speak against trading up do so because having fewer picks would take the fun out of their mock drafts….. Sometimes I really don’t like the cynical side of myself.

You could very well be right

Also, this time of the year people convince themselves that every draft pick will pan out into a starter…

Well I wouldn't go so fay as to say

We’re living in a trailer but I’m with you on the concept.

if you wait till we the only thing we need is a QB

then we’ll be giving up a lot more. right now we are close to the top 10 so getting in wont cost as much as it will a few years from now (assuming the chiefs don’t have a complete thermonuclear meltdown). our stars aren’t getting any younger, so waiting any longer is looking more and more stupid by the moment. we need a QB this season.

Leaf - January 27, 2012 reply

RGIII is to EXPENSIVE!

I don’t think we should trade away our future for one guy who “might” be a star.

Atomic Punx - January 26, 2012 reply

You don’t know if our current pick slot will be either. Two first round picks are definitely worth it to get a consistent very good QB. Look at the stats being put up and what teams are going to the playoffs every year. They have very good qbs not average ones.

Take the chance.

bsosna - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Joe Flacco, Alex Smith, TJ Yates, Matt Ryan, Tim Tebow, Andy Dalton are not “very good” QBs.

I want my team to actually make the Super bowl and not settle for the playoffs. Brady and Eli are elite. Flacco is good and Alex is above average. And it’s a common theme from the past ten years. SB winners have very good quarterbacks. Not all but it’s a theme.

bsosna - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

meh, not sure I'd put Eli in that "elite" category (though I know he does)

the G-Men got to where they are on defense, not offense … and while Manning has had some very good games, he’s had some very bad ones as well, not the mark of an “elite” QB

anf for the record: when the G-Men beat the Pats in the SB a few years ago, Eli’s QB Rating for that season was 74, his Comp % was 56 and his TD:INT Ratio was 23-20

nothing even resembling elite there … but they won the SB anyway

did you watch the giants much this year?

their defense has been very up and down. and eli is having an incredible year. he had two bad games from a stats perspective (fantasy-wise at least). they have an ok defense, but it’s really come on at the end of the year. eli has also done all this with a beat-up and brutal offensive line.

yeah, he's done much better this year than in the past ... but if the point is that no team can get to or win the SB w/o an Elite QB I'll have to disagree

and his stats from 2007 prove my response

no it happens on occasion, but to win multiple super bowls, or even to contend and be a consistent winning football team, the best way is to have a legit franchise qb. or a ridiculously amazing defense like baltimore—which is rare, but with all the rule changes that is even becoming less manageable.

I would classify Eli

as being on the verge… but don’t ask me because I don’t think rivers should be considered elite. And the list of so called elite QBs at the beginning of the season was just about laughable from 6 down to 10. can’t remember who all was on it but I remember Flacco was on the list.

i agree

top-tier elite qbs are a small number. and usually it takes quite a few years even to move from a good qb to an elite one—eli may be on the verge. a lot will depend on how he performs next year, continuing to take a step forward or if he regresses at all.

keep7925 - January 27, 2012 reply

Arguably, but all except

bamachief5558 - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Arguably true...

But all except TJ Yates and Andy Dalton are former first round picks, and Dalton was close (35 overall). Yates wasn’t his team’s starter, he was the 3rd string guy. Sitting in front if him: a former first round pick and a vety good quarterback.

bamachief5558 - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

And then you have...

Other first round picks that haven’t done squat:

Ponder, Locker, Bradford, Freeman, Jamarcus, Quinn, Vince Young, Leinart, Cutler, Campbell…All first rounders taken in the last 7 years. First rounder has nothing to do with it boss.

Cutler took his team to the championship game

Ponder and Locker have had one season. Bradford has shown he can be great.

trentchiefsfan - January 26, 2012 reply

Just coincidence, then, that more SBs in the last twenty years have been won by first rounders than all-other-rounders combined.

First rounder has nothing to do with it boss.

Then why are the vast majority of good-to-elite QB’s in the league first rounders? More so than every other round combined?

Why are you including TJ Yates?

Matt Schaub is the starting QB in Houston and he is “very good.” Brady is one of the best ever. Eli, Big Ben, Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan are all at least in the top 15, if not top 7 among NFL starters. Dalton is a good rookie with a bright future.

Tebow wouldn’t have even been past the first round if Big Ben had been healthy. Alex Smith is a former 1st overall pick that got bent over by shitty OC’s and terrible supplemental drafting (he had no weapons or protection). Who knows how he’ll play next season but if he continues at the level he played in 2011, he’ll push himself into the top half of the league.

Unless you want to bank on a fluke SB-win like with Dilfer or Johnson (aka Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel) then we need an elite QB and the best way to do so is by drafting one. Nobody is a “sure thing” but Griffin would be the best pick since Andrew Luck.

Do this!

Honestly its giving up one first rounder next year not two first round picks id say give up a second next year. Or try to send them cassel instead of a 3rd pick we get rid of a problem for prolly the most exciting pick since Tony G.

Harmondale - January 26, 2012 via Android app reply

Pretty sure

you are gunna have to trade with St Louis to get RGIII, cuz somebody like Cleveland will. And if he is there at #3 then why wouldnt the Vikings take him, you cant tell me that they would chose Ponder over him. And I would have to guess that it is gunna take at least 2 1st round picks plus some other picks to move up to get him

well he did base it off of Minnesotas GM saying he is willing to trade the pick

so going by his words it seems they are good with Ponder over RG3 now the smartness of that move is HIGHLY questionable

Yup, I think Cleveland would try to jump any QB-needy team who traded with Minnesota.

not possible when the trade would be hatched

We'd have to run the card up to Goody right as he was making the trade announcement.

Otherwise, there would be time.

Dexter is waiting with the card right now

Dex, RG3, and Charles.

What would that backfield look like on artificial turf?

a blur

and then 4 seconds or so later

TOUCHDOWN KANSAS CITY!!!

a blur

and then 4 seconds or so later

TOUCHDOWN KANSAS CITY!!!

a blur

and then 4 seconds or so later

TOUCHDOWN KANSAS CITY!!!

sure didn't hear that enuff in 2011

The correct answer is, Tron.

nice!

I hear there's been a patch.

Two issues - Should we trade resources for a top-3 QB, and is RG3 a legit top-3 QB.

For the first issue, I vote absolutely yes.
For the second issue, I vote absolutely not sure.

Id take the chance for RG3 and nobody else

I firmly believe he is going to be great and have no doubt of that, of course I also thought that Dalton would be the class of this years QBs(possibly still correct) and that Scam Newton would be Jamarcus 2.0(I MIGHT be off on that assessment lol)

Yeah I thought Newton would go tits-up too

and I was wildly incorrect. He can certainly still improve which is a good thing in most cases. It’s only bad if he stagnates and/or regresses – though stagnating on that rookie performance wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.

Dalton is going to be a good QB in the NFL and may yet become the best QB in the class. He’s certainly off to a better start than I anticipated as well.

Finally, I think the currently-forgotten potentially great QB from this draft is going to be Jake Locker with the Titans. In the time he spent on the field when Hasselbeck went down he looked absolutely amazing. Nobody talks about him because he wasn’t pushed into the starting role – but when they finally move to him as the starter I expect to see some fireworks.

Locker was my favorite QB of the class at draft time.

At this point it’s tough to put anyone in front of Cam, but I am still excited to see more Jake Locker.

bamachief5558 - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Id take the chance for RG3 and nobody else

I firmly believe he is going to be great and have no doubt of that, of course I also thought that Dalton would be the class of this years QBs(possibly still correct) and that Scam Newton would be Jamarcus 2.0(I MIGHT be off on that assessment lol)

Anyone who wouldnt do this is insane.

Personally, I think we have to get to #2. And I think it is going to cost more than that- maybe #1, #2, #4 this year and #1, #3 next year. Which is actually more than the Falcons gave up.

I would still absolutely do it for the reasons below:

1. Franchise Qbs win the Superbowl. Avg Qbs do not. Especially not anymore.
2. As the poster pointed out, we are set at pretty much every position besides QB and as for RT and NT, I think we can offer an RT a ton of cash and I expect Romeo to coach up our D Lineman. If people think we should use #11 to replace a RT or MLB, while our most important position is manned by Cassel and Orton they are insane.
3. Let’s face it, KC is not an attractive option for free agents. The only way Free Agents are going to want to come to us unless they live or grew up close by (Lilja, Weigman, Gregg) or have connections to a coach (Breaston). A guy who is as charismatic and transcendental as Griffin could change all that.
4. Our division sucks. We had the season from hell and we were a kick away from making palyoffs. Its not like next years pick is going to be top 5.
5. Even if Griffin doesnt pan out, I honestly dont think losing those 5 picks guts us. Look at the Raiders, they give away half their picks and they contend for our terrible division.

This may bet the best, most well-thought out argument I've heard for drafting RGIII.

But I still don’t think he’s going to be Cam Newton, and all those picks are better used elsewhere.

Pickle29 - January 26, 2012 reply

Here's my point...

Even if you don’t think he is going to be Newton, don’t you admit he has RIDICULOUS talent and the POSSIBILITY of being great?

Do we not have one of, if not THE league’s best QB coach in Zorn?

And where would you go with those other picks assuming Orton/Cassel is still leading the team? Even if Griffin is a complete “bust” will he be worse than Cassel?

With Cassel leading us next year, can’t you see us competing for the division? Obviously, not a Super Bowl or an AFC Championship but I am saying his floor is Cassel and his ceiling is Rodgers. And with his floor we can compete for the division.

as evidenced by his spectacular work with Tyler Palko ...

Do we not have one of, if not THE league’s best QB coach in Zorn?

your nit picken

I have heard lots of guys say RGIII is a special talent and (given the right team) a fabulous QB prospect.

The Chiefs will start Cassel in his Cheap 5.5 Million season while RGIII learns.

just like Stanzi did

I agree, he IS a great prospect, he's VERY intelligent and has a LOT of physical tools

and I an MOT a fan of Matt Cassel … you of all people should know that (I think I’d just as soon see Stanzi as our starter if Cassel is the ONLY other option)

I know

And I was the Cassel Guy :(

Don't feel bad

We all went there at one point or another

We had reason to believe.

It didn’t work out, we move on.

Such is football.

Agreed

Just not sure if Pioli does

I don't know, I think it's worked out as far as it needed to up to this point.

Not every QB can be Tom Brady, and not every team can have a Tom Brady. We needed a solid, team-player QB for Pioli/Haley’s first year, and that’s what we got.

Yeah I agree that Matt has done a great job providing some stability and toughness

While we’ve been rebuilding.

He’s gotten the crap kicked out of him in the process, and he’s been nicely compensated for it.

But things are taking shape enough at this point to where we need to improve the position. And that’s a good thing, I think.

Umm..

I would rather look at his work with Batch, Hasselbeck, and Flacco all having career years.

But, if you want to look at Palko and say that’s Zorn’s fault, its on you.

fair enough, but how long has it been since he's even been around Hasselbeck? or Batch ...

I don’t dislike Zorn, but he’s not going to make the difference on how a QB turns into (or doesn’t turn into) an “elite QB”

Coaching seemed to make quite a difference with Alex Smith.

indeed, that and having a great defense, great OLine and one of the best TE's in the league

are we going to call Alex Smith and elite QB now? come on, man …

Not now. We'll see how he develops if Harbaugh and his staff stick around.

BUT…SF with all that talent sure did suck before Smith was playing worth a crap.

ahhhhhh but the Niners DID have talent ...

you know that as well as I do … bad coaching with amazing talent, they SHOULD have won last year … amazingly talented team there

Yeah. I know it was the coach but I'm blaming it on QB play for the sake of this argument.

ha! nice!!!

Obviously that was awhile ago...

But Flacco was last year and he was really pissed when Zorn was let go.

yeah he was, he liked Zorn, not saying he didn't or shouldn't have ... Zorn seems like a cool, fun guy, and innovative

but Flacco isn’t any kind of elite QB either … Balt is doing what the Giants are doing: winning on VERY strong defense

same with the Texans, same for the Niners (with a better offense)

I agree...

Flacco is not elite and they do win with D mostly.

I am just saying improvement-wise. I think we got a good coach at this position and I think we should lean on that strength to get the most out of a guy who is incredibly talented.

Similar to drafting Baldwin when Haley was around. If we see a guy who has all the physical tools and a coach who has a track record of getting the most out of that position, why wouldnt you take a shot?

Ravens are the poster boy of my argument, actually.

They’ve had a total badass defense for a loooong time, some pretty dominating O lines, very solid personnel moves. And they’ve won exactly ONE Superbowl with all that going for them.

Colts

Tarkus - January 26, 2012 reply

The other side of the coin.

Put a great QB on a shit team, and you win just as many SBs as a “complete” team with a mediocre QB.

while the Rams are my poster child ... Bradford had an AWESOME year in 2010

this year the whole team looked like drek … as talented as Bradford is they sucked (and I know, injuries blah blah blah)

Not injuries.. McD was the reason ;)

hard to argue with that one

The Rams were never really missing one piece as much as we are.

Their secondary is terrible and they have very few threats on offense besides SJax.

Bradford is still young.

Manning had a pretty bad rookie year. But look how valuable he is to his team now.

I really wouldn’t look for RG3, or most any rookie QB, to come out of the gates winning Superbowls. I would not be a bit upset if we drafted RG3 and he sat behind Cassel for a year.

see, if I'm gonna spend $300 on a pair of sneakers they better hop on my feet by themselves and tie themselves up when I snap my fingers

and I best be able to hit a jump shot from the 3 point line every damned time

IOW ...

$450 headphones will NEVER make Eminem sound “good”

Every time I hear one of his songs, I spend the whole time waiting for it to actually start.

rec

I am most certainly in posession of my sanity

you act like this is our last chance to draft a good QB ever. That is not the case it’s not even true of the near future.

If this happens I will support it because I think RG3 will be a star but I will be pretty nervous about giving up that many picks

Ncchief31 - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

I have to admit it would inject a high dose of enthusiasm @ Arrowhead.

There would certainly be a “BUZZ” if RGIII came to K.C. Not to mention a lot of Ticket $ales.
Wait…. now I am sounding like Carl Peterson.

Atomic Punx - January 26, 2012 reply

Absolutely

I’d have a 4+ hour boner that only a Viagra-session-gone-bad could replicate if we traded up to get him.

It would probably take a while for the consequences (aka what we traded away) to register in my brain. And then a season or two to find out if we completely shot ourselves in the foot or not.

I know this is the wrong perspective to take, but wouldn’t it be exciting to see us make a major move like this?

Let;s Change the Culture

Do it

easyjb - January 26, 2012 reply

different yogurt?

i'm for it

I agree with a lot of your arguments here. KC has got to get a franchise qb—we haven’t had one since len dawson. Not only is it the really the best way to win anymore, it is even the ONLY way to win consistently and perhaps even contend for multiple super bowls.

I believe RGIII will be a great quarterback in the league—a lot of people think he is better than cam newton. This guy is accurate and can run, which is becoming more and more important in the nfl. I absolutely think rgiii is the guy to do this for.

Depth is really important but not nearly as important as having a qb that can change the way your entire offense looks. Just look at the colts this year. A premiere starter is much more important than 2 or 3 serviceable backups (assuming those picks even do contribute, which is far from certain in the draft—especially for d-lineman as we well know in kc).

Also you’re not “giving up” two first rounders. Your swapping one first rounder and giving up another. You’re only losing one first rounder. Add a 2nd and a 4th or 5th and I believe it is completely worth it.

Atlanta sold the farm, but they did it for one receiver. Very different when you’re talking about a potential low-risk franchise-changing-for-years quarterback.

If this happens I'll blow you on the roof.

And yes you can call channel nine,

OJ In Nevada - January 26, 2012 reply

I'm rec'ing this

and bookmarking it
and taking a screen shot
and making paper copies

If we get RGIII AND I get a blowjob on the roof? If that’s not winning I don’t know what is.

I want a video!

I don't.

Tarkus - January 26, 2012 reply

Scary

Now would you start RGIII from day one or let Cassel take some shots in 2012

Tired of hearing "all those picks...."

Lets put some names to the picks.

We’re talking about a 2nd, a 5th, and next year’s first (this year’s first turns into RG3, so it’s not a lost pick).

Going back to 2007 because we pretty much know how those players have matured by now….Here are the names that would go with those three picks:

2007 – McBride, Medlock, Dorsey
2006 – Pollard, Stallings, Bowe
2005 – Colquitt, Hodge, Hali
2004 – Wilson, Jared Allen, DJ
2003 – Mitchell, Black, Siavii
2002 – Freeman, Rodriguez, LJ

Some pretty good players a couple of those years. But most years, I would abso FRIGGIN lutely trade that group of three for a franchise QB.

Nice research

I liked your points analysis post.

But I’m afraid that we’d get into a bidding war that would inflate the price.

thanks

IT IS WAR

:)

This has just about as much of chance of Tyler Palko going to the Hall Of Fame.

OJ In Nevada - January 26, 2012 reply

I agree. Our Chiefs never take big risks. This RGIII talk is useless.

Atomic Punx - January 26, 2012 reply

conservative Bastards

Lets live a little

Steve, you need to come to our 3 Cord Church

falalalallal, Hummmm, FALALALLALLA

I CAN SING

except at work :(

we have cookies!

honest!

Victor Armstrong - January 26, 2012 reply

RGIII

It would be smart to trade up for him. We could also trade away some players that Scott Poli thinks who will help get more draft picks back for us.

if the Browns draft RGIII ...

Colt McCoy a Chief?

he is young and is stuck on a sorry Browns team

Chiefs619 - January 26, 2012 reply

Yeah, he'd be a lot better than Cassel/Orton.

and much younger than those 2

Chiefs619 - January 27, 2012 reply

Do it in a heartbeat

For whatever reason NFL GREATLY overvalue draft picks. This wouldn’t be mortgaging the future, it would be setting us up for the future. The Chiefs will be a better team next year, its only going to cost more to move up for a QB going forward and KC will never get over the hump without a QB.

HIV 2 Elway - January 26, 2012 reply

Completely. Many good points. To get ahead, we must take risks.

jcox31mc - January 26, 2012 reply

Not only the NFL

But the fans as well

ChiefWarPaint - January 26, 2012 reply

I'm still thinking,

if we were to do something this drastic. Offer Bowe, Dorsey and Cassel along with our 1st pick. That would essentially be 3 1sts and a 2nd. We could replace Dorsey with Bailey and a draft pick, Bowe with a FA signing and Cassel with a RGIII. If its Minnesota were talking to, they can use Dorsey in thier 4/3 D, they could definitely use Bowe to help Ponder thrive and Cassel could be viewed as an insurance policy in case Ponder fails to improve.

KCfosho - January 26, 2012 reply

Three 1sts and half of a 2nd.

Ugh

Dagda - January 26, 2012 reply

Bowe isn't even under contract, so he can't be traded.

The Chiefs aren’t going to sign him and then turn around and trade him (after forking over, let’s say, $10 million in bonuses).

Dagda - January 26, 2012 reply

Isn't that how we got Cassel? Tag and trade?

Yup

No need to sign Bowe to a multi year deal when he can be tagged then traded

Multi year deal is actually worse, cause the team would have to accept all of the conditions

and the Chiefs would have to eat all the bonuses like pointed out above

so, if we have to trade Bowe as part of the deal to get RG3 ... who does he have to throw to?

Charles, Dex, Breaston, TonyM, Baldwin

+new pieces

what new pieces? the discussion is centered around trading away the chance to get any

FA? Draft?

That’s why I listed it below, not like we would stand pat on the players.

We aren't trading ALL of our draft picks!

TJ Moe.

Wes Welker in waiting.

True

But if they did that they’d better grab a promising WR somewhere to replace Bowe. I like Breaston and Baldwin has potential but they can’t quite cut it on their own.

There is nothing wrong with Cassel

The Chiefs do not need to sell the farm to select a QB.

Dagda - January 26, 2012 reply

oh, there's a LOT wrong with Cassel

Still hoping he makes a jump next year, huh?

Except vision, progressions, and pocket presence

I absolutely agree with yo

I agree make a move

But why to #3 Rams have 2nd pick their the ones that we’re going have to trade with not the Minesota Vikings.

joed2001 - January 26, 2012 reply

Rams have a young and expensive QB. It's very likely they take Kalil if they don't trade out.

If they trade out…well, that’s what I think would blow this plan up.

Absolutely!!!!!

RGlll is going to be a star!!!! We need him like
The the colts needed Peyton, what I’m saying is a QB will change the hole aspect of a team. You guys might think we need more then one player but I disagree. And what alot of people don’t want this trade because of the picks we would use but look at some of the picks we have made! Tyson Jackson, Jon Baldwin? Two first round picks that have not lived up to what I consider first rounders!! RGlll would open up our offense in so many ways, we would not be so predictable 3 and out sucks IMO! And that is what we are with Both cassel and Orton!! Imagine RGIII with Charles and mccluster on both sides.. Resign bowe and draft RGlll!! I think it would also bring some excitement back to arrowhead, something we definitely need!!

albuquerquechiefsfan - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Ok so lets see

You are against Tjax cause he doesn’t put up sack numbers even though thats not his job

You are against Baldwin cause no offseason, broken thumb, and Haley+Muir+Palko.. after one year?

I’m not against them, I think there good but Tyson was drafted #4 overall??!! Has not lived up to it! IMO..he is good but not great… Baldwin has not impressed me not saying he won’t ever be good. I’m just saying when there is a player like RGlll u go after him QB is the most important player on the team and I don’t think we would ever win a playoff game with cassel or orton much less win a super bowl!!

albuquerquechiefsfan - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

#3 overall, and if you know the scheme, you know Tjax will not get the godly #s because he is not supposed to

How has Baldwin really had a chance to impress anyone? Didn’t get much playing time, when he did he had shit Qb play, and was used in shitty ways.. like a blocking TE, or a chipping TE

Tyson Jackson has become...

One of the league’s best when it comes to stopping the run.

Despite being doubled constantly

Dorsey gets credit for being a good run stopper, but he’s singled teamed constantly. T-Jax is a far superior player

Dorsey gets credit for being a good run stopper

because you wrote a post giving him that credit.

Haha nice

And he is. But I do wonder if he doesn’t look better than he is due to taking the fewest double teams.

Sorry #3.Exactly awful QB play! Dont get me wrong I like tj and have hope for jb. And I think our team is a qb away from competing for a sb.

albuquerquechiefsfan - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Since u know Everything what do you think we
Should do with our qb situation?!

albuquerquechiefsfan - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

I'm all for doing what it takes to get RGIII honestly

Don’t see it happening, fine with DeCastro in the first, RT in the second

Bad part is, with our IR players next year we should win the West.. putting us out of reach of the good QB prospects, or trading A LOTTTT more to move up and get one.

So u fine with cassel or orton?

albuquerquechiefsfan - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Obviously I'm not fine with Cassel nor Orton if I would trade up for RGIII

orton

why does everybody bang on orton believe me he is not even concedering kansas city. he came he because he had no choice and 450.000 per week

jakertwotoes - January 27, 2012 reply

Everyone who says they want Orton knows he will have to be signed

How many teams will really be clawing for Orton and give him the shot at a starting role? He has the shot here if he wants it

He had a choice, you do NOT have to report to the team who claimed you

If we don't move up this year, then we should trade back and pile up picks to move up next year.

I could see Pioli staying at our pick if DeCastro is there actually

Seems like a perfect Pioli player and pick. Trading back would be interesting though, possibly another first next year and still in a position to get a RT like Adams/Sanders

If it just comes down to talent, I think there's a lot more value in getting Zeitler/Konz plus an extra pick or two.

Those should be really good players, along with Glenn and maybe another one or two guys. At guard, all-world talent isn’t really gonna get us many more wins than very good talent.

I have heard people talk about how DeCastro’s intangibles put him over the top, though. If he can be a Berry-like leader for the offensive line, then I’d be fine with that. However, I kinda see Hudson taking that role.

Now this

I’m totally on board with… don’t get me wrong. If the Chiefs pull a stunner and get RGIII. I won’t complain if he turns out well. I’d just feel better if we traded down and grabbed Barkley next year.

Doesn’t matter because I don’t get to pick. I have a sinking feeling they’ll do neither.

Yeah, I REALLY hope we don't just stand pat.

This is a great year, in my opinion, to move up OR down.

It's too early to jump on Baldwin

That catch he made against Denver was amazing. Yeah it got called back but I’ve never seen anything like it.

The boy just needs to get sticky hands a good WR coach and he’ll most likely be a great asset…. either way it’s too early to give the thumbs up or down.

Look at it this way

RGIII has to be better than Sanchez….and he still got the Jets playoff wins…

He didn't get the Jets there, their defense did.

We're not that from from a D like that.

But at the same time, I’m on the fence about this move. We need a QB thats for sure. At what point do you pull the trigger or wait? Wait too long and your young team of rising stars will start to get old or want off the team for the lack of a winning commitment.

Technically we are far from a D like that.. completely different styles haha

We should have a top defense next year, which makes even more sense to take the risk now and get a QB. The defense should be able to keep us in games if the rook takes his bumps

Agreed

We need to make a move or forever accept mediocrity…something I refuse to do!

Yeah, it's a pretty rare opportunity to have a team with this much talent and a draft pick this high.

Agreed with the players back from IR

Improved last year rooks.. great defense, should be good running game, decent oline.. get the Qb and watch the team go

It's amazing how...

the Jets wins dried up when there defense took a hike.

Wait, no it’s not.

OR does he?

Ryan Leaf, Todd Blackledge numerous others who’s names i’ve forgotten….

In all seriousness though you’re probably right.

If Pioli feels that RG3 is capable of taking a team like KC to the next level

I say GO FOR IT.

The way I see it is that RG3 shows the potential of a player that possess a ton of potential. He has improved each and every season while at Baylor.

If he gives KC a chance to win a playoff game in 2012 season, that alone makes me feel it’s worth it. If he can help KC win a playoff game in his rookie season, who know what the ceiling may be for this QB.

Bottom line is..if this kid has a 50/50 chance of being a franchise QB, I’d take my chance of him leaning towards the 50% side of being successful in the NFL.

When I look at a player with that kinda of chance/risk. The upside is far greater than him being a bust.

This should be at least 99% for.

For what reason people overvalue picks, it’s rediculous.
Let’s flip Bowe for a 1st then take a WR and hope he has the same value as Bowe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think some read it as "Will they do this"

I voted against

because I’m 99% sure RG3 won’t be there at #3. And if he is you can bet your ass that Cleveland will swap picks with MN to make sure they get him.

jmcgoblue - January 26, 2012 reply

Reading these comments are quite troubling.

We don’t have all that many holes. Look at the Colts with and without Manning, it’s amazing how many ‘holes’ a good/great QB can cover up. 2 picks would put this team back for years? Uggggg.

The chances of those picks being probowl quality are slim to none

The chances of RGIII being the franchise QB this team needs is a much higher probability.

I’m going to side with the #s and go for RGIII.

Let's say there is a 10% chance of winning a Superbowl with RGIII

….it’s alot higher than the 0% of winning it with Cassel/Orton and those 2 picks.

SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S A CHANCE?!

Not sure why people even point to probowl as some great measuring stick

Popularity contest doesn’t make a good player

Ha! I thought the same thing

Poor choice of words then, but I think you get what I was trying to say.

Since u know everything what do u think we
Should do with our qb situation?

albuquerquechiefsfan - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

you actually pay money to text that?

Hey, don't be mean to the people who compliment me!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Lame!

albuquerquechiefsfan - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Really??

albuquerquechiefsfan - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Really

REALLY PEOPLE?!?!?

Develop the team, then get the QB to build around them? Knowing it takes 2-3 years to develop the QB? The shelf life of good players is so short, that’s so completely backwards.

^ THIS ^

I never really get this with some of the fans too. I thought you build around the QB. I mean the one player that consistently touches the ball like 99% of every snap.

I loved that

Rivers reference :)

My...

That’s a lot of QB sneaks

It seems backwards is the way to go then

NE-team then the QB
Pitt-team then the QB
GB-team then the QB
Giants-team then the QB
Jets-team then the QB, they just picked the wrong QB
Ravens-team then the QB, they also picked the wrong QB

Chicken or Egg

it doesn’t matter HOW you get the Franchise QB.

The Saints lucked into theirs
The Giants traded into theirs
The Colts sucked into theirs, maybe twice

ok, serious question.

I think we’ve all realized the SB winning QB we want isn’t on the roster. If not now, when?
Wait next year when Barkley comes out?
If we go 7-9 again and draft in the same spot, we’re ok to go up and get them then?
Face it, we don’t suck nearly bad enought to be in a spot to take a franchise QB.

Id be fine with trading up to get RGIII

I was simply pointing out that the successful teams built the team first and then added the QB

Pitt had a QB fall to them

NE had a QB and didn’t have to take a chance on a high pick, Brady worked out..
GB had Favre… Rodgers fell to them
Giants made a move to get their guy
Jets made a move to get their guy…

Roethlisberger didn't really fall, he was #11 overall.

GB traded the #19 pick for Favre.
NE got the luckiest pick in the history of the draft.

Sooo….yeah, not the best examples from badassz.

How are they bad examples?

each team I showed there had the team built before they got their QB

NE didn't really "get" their QB like we're talking about getting a QB.

What they got was incredibly lucky.

GB was a terrible team when they got Favre. They also got lucky in having Rodgers fall….and I personally think a big reason for his success was that he could sit and learn for so long.

Giants and Jets traded for their QBs. Ravens won a SB with Dilfer, and since then have had basically the same kind of non-SB-winning team we complained about having during the Marty years.

Pitt tried and failed for years before they got Roethlisberger. And, coincidentally, the year they got him they had this “complete” team and bad enough luck to have played into the #11 pick……

If you go with Favre for the Packers yes it can work out that way

Not sure Pitt was even going after a QB in that draft, but once Ben fell to them, they took him and he sat

YES

We could fill most if not all of our holes this year PLUS get some depth. Trading up for Barkley would be less risk EVEN if we end up with a better W_L record.

How would trading up be less risky if we have a better win loss record?

Means we have to give away more picks, that could turn into oh so many good players!!!!

Because

We’re in a better position to give up those picks. we only need to fill like two spots and add depth and we’re solid. we can fill the spots and add depth in at least the positions we need it most this season. then grab our QB next year.

Oh really?

Cause what if we lose Albert next year? Will we still be in a better place? How about Dorsey leaving too? Lilja retires?

Ohh wait.. what.. a team is never completely built? yeah….

Don't put words in my mouth

I never once said we’d ever be completely built but we can at least get some depth…. PLUS.

We know this year our 1st pick is 11th or 12th. And Cleveland’s is 4th with an extra 1st round pick.

It’s very likely it won’t matter what KC WANTS to do. Cl;eveland is in a better position to seal the deal.

Because its set in stone that the Browns will move up?

They wont try to get Richardson? Maybe another target for McCoy? They are all in on another QB?

Yeah we can get depth in FA/other picks/UDFA.. dont need high picks for that

Nothing is ever set in stone

However NfL.COm is saying that the Browns want him and they sure as heck need him… so it’s pretty likely.

It’s better to be aware of that than get our hearts set and find out whoops Cleveland took him.

The thing is the way people talk on here you’d think RGIII was the last good QB that will ever hit the draft. When in fact we don’t even know he won’t be a bust.

Well glad whatever NFL.com says is true

When in fact we don’t even know he won’t be a bust.

Same can be said about every player in the draft, RGIII has the potential and talent that not many other prospects have.

You know you need to sound

a bit bless full of yourself when you read more into people’s words than they typ.e

LIKELY does not = TRUE.

He appears to we’ll find out when he starts playing with the big boys.

Whatever you say

in that case

That Baltimore TEAM should be in the SB. They had a much better overall team than the Pats, but they didn’t have the QB. What does that tell you?

Had Lee Evans hung onto the ball...

Or Cundiff makes that kick, Flacco goes from “not being a good QB” to looking like a solid QB in the eyes of many. That throw he made was excellent, Evans just couldn’t come down with it. Flacco did not lose that game. Sorry man.

They still lost

I will take a great QB and an average team over a average QB and a great team any day. It’s a QB league now

You're deliusional...

That’s such a bad argument to make, “They still lost.” Flacco did everything right on that last drive, aside from catching a TD pass and making a 32-yard field goal. If he comes back and beats the Patriots, Flacco looks different in everyone’s eyes.

He overthrew Torrey Smith

He had a pick. Brady gets a lot of leeway because he has 5 SB appearences and 3 rings. Flacco doesn’t have that yet. So yes, there will be doubts until he wins a ring

Like I said they picked the wrong QB

Nothing

Because the Tom Brady didn’t win that game the Ravens screw ups did it for him…. for once ( and we should mark it on our calendars) Flacco out played him.

Jason Drue Keith - January 27, 2012 reply

OR...

We can get a QB NOW so that our up and coming defense will still be playing when the offense catches up!

Channeling Trent Green

Just a thought

how many teams have ever traded up in the 1st round to get a QB and then went on to win the SB with that QB?

Doesn't mean it can't be done - JUST Because no other team have done that

I mean before the Bucs and Rams won a Superbowl, I’d thought for anyone to imagine anything close to those jokers win one was crazy

Heh, that's pretty specific. What alternative are you suggesting?

We win with a seventh round QB? What are the odds of that?

Or do you think we should draft Tannehill/Foles/somebody else as our franchise?

I doubt that

Anyone is suggesting Cassel is our future. If they are they need their head examined. If you go to rounds 2 and 3 the odds are a bit higher than rounds 6 and 7. Or if you have your team in order it’s worth the risk of trading up to take them in round 1.

Black Swan

Eli and Brees was convuluted

Elway?

Do I win

Who says RG3 will even be that good??

I’m not convinced he will be a great or even good QB

Brandon Bond - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Why?

For every person that doubts RG3 ability to be successful in the NFL

there’s one person on the other side touting him as a player that’ll be successful.

If that’s a 50/50. I’d lean on RG3 showing a chance of an upside rather than a bust.

It's obvious how I voted

The 1st of many recs I hope

2nd Rec...

More Recs PLEASE?!!!

I can't REC

having Terrance Copper throwing the football.

Tarkus - January 26, 2012 reply

love it

I hope this is what we see

kcchiefs2782 - January 26, 2012 via Android app reply

I don't like the idea

Only because I’m not convinced griffin is going to be a stud.

nateforchiefs - January 26, 2012 via mobile reply

Last 20 Years Superbowls:

Brad Johnson-1 hit wonder(NOT a team built to last)
Kurt Warner-(bag boy/arena league player who got it done ONCE)
Drew Brees-Early SECOND rounder traded for a FIRST!
Brett Favre-Early Second Rounder TRADED!
Tom Brady(3)-Freak of nature going back for forth(5 tries)
13 FIRST ROUND Quarterbacks!(65%)

Naw, it’s Ok…we can defy logic and take back-ups and PRAY like we have for 42 YEARS!!!

Wouldn't we be due in that case?

Kidding.

Yes, you have proven you need to draft a QB early

But you act like it is that easy:
-Draft a QB early and you will win SBs.

No, it has to be the RIGHT QB.

Right AND...

we as life-long Chiefs fans will NEVER know it BECAUSE we keep plunging into the back-up pool! I’m just stating that first rounders get it done MORE! We can’t simply be content to pray and hope. All that has done is lead to a LONG string of playoff desolation! When is a good time to do this? After Cassel’s contract is up before the 2015 season? By then, SOME of our defensive stars will be entering the back half of their careers!

AND....

• Jan. 9, 2011 Baltimore 30/Kansas City 7 Flacco(1st)
• Jan. 6, 2007 Indianapolis 23/Kansas City P.Manning (1st)
• Jan. 11, 2004 Indianapolis 38/Kansas City 31 P. Manning (1st)
• Jan. 4, 1998 Denver 14/Kansas City 10 Elway (1st)
• Jan. 7, 1996 Indianapolis 10/Kansas City 7 Harbaugh (1st)
• Dec. 31, 1994 Miami 27/Kansas City 17 Marino (1st)
• Jan. 23, 1994 Buffalo 30/Kansas City 13 Jim Kelly (1st)
• Jan. 16, 1994 Kansas City 28/Houston 20 WIN
• Jan. 8, 1994 Kansas City 27/Pittsburgh 24 OT WIN
• Jan. 2, 1993 San Diego 17/Kansas City 0 Neil O’Donnel (3rd)
• Jan. 5, 1992 Buffalo 37/Kansas City 14 Jim Kelly (1st)
• Dec. 28, 1991 Kansas City 10/L.A. Raiders 6 WIN
• Jan. 5, 1991 Miami 17/Kansas City 16 Dan Marino (1st)
• Dec. 28, 1986 New York 35/Kansas City 15 Pat Ryan (11th)
• Dec. 25, 1971 Miami 27/Kansas City 24 Bob Greise (1st)

OUCH!

ExRoyalsFan - January 26, 2012 reply

I 100%

agree with you. The painful truth is that when I watched the 49ers vs. Giants game I began to think this could be K.C. next year. But we need a QB who can and will WIN THE GAME!!!

kc_balla_89 - January 26, 2012 reply

I'm all in for luck

not so much RG3 his offense he ran at baylor scares me

Aside from what you highlighted we need depth at TE. Pope is not a suitable replacement for Moeaki. If we trade down this year we can fill all our holes, get some depth and be in the position to trade up for say… Barkley next draft.

Either way I think we should wait at least one more draft before we motgage the picks for one player.

I think next year is the year...

I’d betting we trade back in the first and pick up an extra first next year. That would allow us to fill the holes we have on the roster this year and set the stage for a QB to come in and prosper. With the 2 firsts next year we have the ammo to trade up and grab our QB. Sounds like a Pioli type move.

Obviously this would most likely mean we miss out on DeCastro, however, there is a chance he drops and I think people forget that there is another top-teir interior lineman who will likely be on board in Konz. Honestly I think Konz fits the mold of what the Pioli and the Chiefs are looking for better than DeCastro. If you look at all of the interior lineman drafted under Pioli all of them have had the ability to play both center and guard (Pouncey who the Chiefs tried to move up for last year was a C/G as well).

Everest - January 26, 2012 reply

I am surprised so many would do it

Yeah, I would trade the picks…. down.. To get more picks. People can say the NFL overvalues the draft all they want, but the most successful teams are built primarily by the draft. Teams like Washington and Oakland who have mismanaged the draft and free agency aren’t successful. Teams like Green Bay, who have 35 players on their roster that they drafted are the ones that are continually where we want to be. Where we are, I don’t think we can afford to lose potentially any chance to add more quality players to our roster in both quantity and quality.

Steve_in_RI - January 26, 2012 reply

The pitch is on the way...

And he crushes it off the centerfield scoreboard.

+1

How can we build a successful team through the draft

if we’re too gun shy to do what’s necessary to draft an elite QB?

Well 1st off...

We don’t know if they ARE elite until they play with the big boys.

2nd off there’s a difference between not acting and not acting until the appropriate moment or in this case season.

we'll never know til we try

We don’t know if they ARE elite until they play with the big boys.

trentchiefsfan - January 27, 2012 reply

My point exactly

That’s why we should wait one more year to take that risk. Next season it won’t hurt us near as much if we draft a bust as it would this year.

yes it will hurt because I guarantee that we will be a fair bit higher on the draft order than 11

meaning it will cost more to trade up for a Barkley or Landry.

trentchiefsfan - January 27, 2012 reply

Not to mention

Neither of those players has a projected ceiling as high as RG3 does this year.

Also, I’m sick and tired of the “he could be a bust” excuse. There’s no higher percentage chance that RG3 will bust out than whoever we draft at 11 and there’s more reward for getting it right on RG3 than doing the same with a RT at 11. If we trade up for RG3 and he pans out we’ve got an elite QB for the next 10+ years.

What if we save our picks and wait til next year to draft a QB in the top ten and he busts while RG3 rapes opposing defenses for some other team? Is that risk any smaller than trading up to get Griffin this year?

Maybe not

but they don’t always work out according to projections do they? RGII could level out below expectations… Barkley and/or Landry could level out above. I think Barkley has a pretty decent chance of being an asset.

I also feel like this argument is more about being in a hurry than RGIII vs Barkley.

I wish they were in the same draft though it would be easier to land one of the two that way.

Do you have a crystal ball in yourpocket?

Let’s not pretend we know our record before the 1st snap of the season. I don’t think we’ll need the picks as much is what I’m getting at. Yes our record will likely improve but that doesn’t necessarily mean there will less teams with better records.

Teams Like Greenbay...

DIDN’T pass up drafting a QB in the FIRST ROUND!

That makes it sound

Like they draft every 1st round QB coming through the draft. I’m sure they have passe up several.

Ha! Yeah, when they already had one.

Soon as Favre’s beard started getting weird, they looked for a young QB.

Are you a troll?

It’s painfully clear as to what Jason was referring. Either you missed it intentionally to be difficult or you’re incredibly dense, please be the former.

I would sell the farm for RG3

RG3 wont fail

He has too much ability, is too smart and is such a high character kid he will succeed wherever he goes. Hopefully it’s to KC

ChiefofNJ - January 26, 2012 reply

You are a genius

this is what I have been trying to tell all of these so called fans on this site everyone says I’m crazy. maybe I am a little for wanting my team to finally make a move and take a chance at getting our QB of the future I agree with you 100% and I wish Scott could do the same maybe he does we just have to keep wishing he can open his eyes and see all the young talent waiting for its young star QB to take us to the next level thank you for making this post and let’s hope for the best in this draft

kcchiefs2782 - January 26, 2012 via Android app reply

Absolutely!! Go for it!!!!

This would be the best thing for this team on only one condition, that Pioli is active in free agency and can fill some holes before the draft! If he can accomplish that than trading pics doesn’t seem so bad. Once you realize you don’t need Cassil anymore than trade him off to recover one of your pics in next years draft and get a little active in free agency next year too!! After that it’s all down hill and Super Bowl Bound!!!! Just afraid Pioli doesn’t have the balls to make it all happen :(

Chiefs71 - January 26, 2012 reply

agree

cassel and Kyle won’t get us very far tho and everyone in this world but Scott sees that

kcchiefs2782 - January 27, 2012 via Android app reply

I agree with this comment thread

We should not pursue RG3. Let’s not even draft a QB at all.

Thus next year when we finish the season, we’ll be out of the playoffs, people will bitch and complain that we would have gotten in if we had a good QB, and then not draft a QB because it would cost too much.

let me guess, you people want the chiefs to have an 0-16 season so we can finally draft a good QB.

the whole point of the draft is to test luck (no pun intended). Will RG3 be good? Who knows. But apparently everybody is assuming that our 1st round NT, TE, etc will automatically be good.

If you like losing, avoid a QB. if you like winning, draft RG3. Your choice

Chiefshero - January 26, 2012 reply

Call me crazy but

I thought the point of the draft was to allow teams a more even shot at obtaining young talented players. Hence the team with the worst record gets 1st pick.

Now let me ask you this… assume we trade say 5 picks for RGIII…. and we still don’t get to the playoffs next season do you think people are not going to bitch? What about if we don’t go in two seasons? In three? Does he have a guarantee stamped on the bottom of his foot? Will one more year kill us? That’s assuming we can’t get there with Cassel. apparently we CAN because we HAVE.

Sure we spent the 2nd half of the season complaining about the QB. The 1st half of the season the complaint was depth. Now how much depth are you expecting if we trade away multiple picks to get a QB BEFORE we get that addresses a little better?

We could fill all our major holes this season and gain some depth and then make a play for Barkley next season.
To me that would make much more sense.

Hold on a second

Who said anything about trading away 5 picks to get RG3?

Quit inflating the number to make your point sound more reasonable.

I saw the Chiefs win the Superbowl when I was 7

I was more into tonka toys @the time. I am so tired of watching the Chiefs organisation year after year go with what is easy. Dammit take the risk! Are you afraid of success or failure?

As Chiefs fans

We’ve seen a little bit of both so it’s hard to be afraid of either.

Am I the only one that saw the effect of losing Charles and Moeaki? If you think having better backups in their positions wouldn’t have made an impact this season you’re crazy.

Granted Lewis stepped up and Berry’s loss didn’t hurt as much as I thought it would be we need just a few more pieces before we bet the farm on one player.

I do agree with you

Depth is a huge concern

very true but

we need to finally take that risk to finally take that next step

kcchiefs2782 - January 27, 2012 via Android app reply

Depth can be drafted in rounds 3-7.

We could trade our next five years’ worth of first rounders and still draft for depth like nothing happened. The depth quest should have zero impact on the franchise QB quest.

Why is this so difficult to get across to people?

You don't draft depth in the first two rounds

you draft starters. We don’t need another starting Safety or TE at this point, we need a QB.

I'm not saying bet the farm

Rams as a trading partner

Say the Rams like RG3, how about going after Bradford? Not trade the farm. Give up our 1and thats it

I'd be more in line with that but...

If I had it my way we’d trade down this year and fill our holes/get some depth. Bring on Campbell, Orton, or maybe Quin to backup Cassel or start in his place (whatever).

Then trade up to get Barkley next season.

Speaking to the risk...

46 QBs were drafted in the 1st round between 1986 and 2006. I picked those years because by now most of them who are likely to go have gone. At most maybe 5 or 6 more will get there assuming no one has repeat trips between now and their retirement.

11 of them have gone to one or more Super Bowls. 6 of those have been on the winning team and IMO Dilfer didn’t exactly lead his team to the win.

That’s less than 14%

Of those who haven’t gone only 16 were still playing in the NFL by 2011.

And every year only 2 out of 32 teams go to the Super Bowl (which is 6.25%)

By taking a first round QB, you’re increasing your odds of getting there. It’s never a sure thing under the best of circumstances. You don’t get to go and win it every year even if you have Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

But they sure as hell boost your chances.

Yes Brady wasn’t a first round pick. But he’s a franchise QB. Your odds of landing a franchise QB in the first round are exponentially higher than the other rounds. Just because there are outliers doesn’t mean you should count on them happening.

I don’t have the numbers on hand, but I’ll go on and make a bold prediction here – the % of QB’s drafted after the first round that get to the Super Bowl and win is far far less than your stated 14% figure. And that’s if you count the outlier of all outliers, Tom Brady.

I'm sure they are

I think I actually saw the percentages the other day… they also cost less to obtain. I’m not saying we shouldn’t ever trade up to get a QB but some people (not pointing you out) seem to act like it’s a given we get this guy and Wham! we’re going to the big dance.

We could get him and as unlikely as it sounds he could turn out to be as bad as Palko when playing with the pros.

Same thing could happen with DeCastro

There's no such thing as a sure thing when acquiring football players (draft or FA)

All you can do is try to increase your odds of success.

Luck is out of the equation, because IND isn’t trading their pick, and he’s going to be their guy. In my opinion, and one that’s shared with many (doesn’t guarantee that it’s right), the only other good bet for a franchise QB in this draft that isn’t named Luck, is RG3.

If the team’s front office and talent evaluators agree, it makes sense that getting him should be their priority. If they feel the cost is just too prohibitively high to try to move up (a possibility), or if they feel he’s not as likely to be a franchise guy as the fans think, then it’s prudent to pass and work on building up the O Line, get some depth (TE, S) and hope Stanzi can develop, draft a project this year, or whatever other course they have charted out.

But franchise QB is the hardest thing to acquire. If you can, you do.

+10

OK, now do the converse. What are the percentages for non-first-round QBs?

I would not make the trade.

I would NEVER draft a QB for the Big 12 in the first round. They face terrible defenses each week that makes their stats look great. Name a few great QBs from the big 12 that had good NFL careers. Also, we need other players on this team and need all the draft picks we can get. A RT, TE, G, ILB, DT are just a few.

Mustang fever - January 27, 2012 reply

Name a big 12 QB with the talent that RGIII has

Can’t look at it one way without the other

I think anytime you have a chance to land what your talent evaluators agree is a franchise QB, you do it. You have to.

It’s the hardest position to fill in the NFL. Maybe in all of sports.

Now whether they think he’s the guy worth pulling the trigger for on a trade like that could be up for debate. But I think that if they perceive it to be a realistic move, there’s zero reason at all to not do it.

(personally, I don’t know that the front office here thinks RG3 would be worth giving up what it’ll cost to get him in their risk vs reward analysis)

Name any Big 12 QBs that have done well in the NFL?

They just don’t play teams that defend the pass.

Mustang fever - January 27, 2012 reply

Freeman and Bradford aren't bad at all.

McCoy may get there.

This may help you a bit since you seem hung up on it.

Fortunately I have absolutely zero conference or school loyalty when it comes to NCAA sports, so I couldn’t give less of a shit what conference someone comes from. If they have the tools, they have the tools. If they don’t, you pass on them and find someone who does.

sign some big free agents

KC would have to sign some big free agents to make a trade fro RG3 worth it.
Carl Nicks would be a great place to start along with bringing back Carr & Bowe

viper101 - January 27, 2012 reply

yeah

that a good start

kcchiefs2782 - January 27, 2012 via Android app reply

That's gonna happen

I all but takes an act of God to get them to sign FAs. It’s a good thought though just the same.

I say Trade

but i think u can offer something alot better. like our first next year is too much. we’re only trading up what 15 spots? not exactly falcons trading up 20+ for JJ. maybe our 1st this year along w/ 2nd and 5th. depending on the talent level of both this years and next years. and maybe 3and4 or 2nd, next year

nfamous209 - January 27, 2012 reply

Trading up 15 spots?

We sit at 11 or 12… Have to account for other teams wanting to trade with the Rams as well, which will drive price up

dude, we're drafting at the -4 position

Wonder what kind of talent will be available there?

Better talent than at the -3 spot :(

We GOTTA win that coin flip!

I would rather have Cassel or Orton than Freeman, Bradford, McCoy, Young, etc.

If RG3 falls to their pick, fine, but don’t mortgage the future for one guy.

Mustang fever - January 27, 2012 reply

I wouldn't touch Young with a 10' pole.

But that has nothing to do with the conference he played in when he was in college. It’s just the fact that he’s a long string of mental meltdowns waiting to happen.

Bradford is an upgrade over what we have on the roster right now, easily. Freeman, hard to say – may have been a sophomore slump or legitimate regression. McCoy – deck may be stacked against him, but right now yeah he’s probably no better than Cassel.

And none of those things have anything to do with an NCAA conference. Some players have it. Some don’t. Some schools are better at landing top talent than others. But pretending that some kind of mystical rule of absolutes applies there is just plain silly.

How about we alter that trade

Give them this years 1st rounder, and 5th rounder and trade Glenn Dorsey and Wally Gilby to play in there 4-3!

ajflow - January 27, 2012 reply

Yeah, I think we'll have to include a player or two if we want to outbid teams with higher picks.

that And

both players fit better and have more value in a 4-3

ajflow - January 28, 2012 reply

The NFL is full of can't miss 1st round qb's....

unfortunately, I can’t remember their names.

none

of those QB’s looked even close to what RG3 can do in college no comparison he can do everything he needs to do for the QB position plus makes others around him great and bowe and jc don’t need help with that just think what that off. could do that’s why I still think trading up is that best thing we can do for this young talented team

kcchiefs2782 - January 27, 2012 via Android app reply

I concede the odds are even less likely

However I’ didn’t post that as an argument for picking in the later rounds more as a reminder that it’s still a pretty big risk.

For some reason it’s an even bigger gamble if they are the 1st overall pick. Hard to judge talent?