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Arrowhead Pride

Todd Haley's Paycheck From The Chiefs Comes Into Question

And we thought this was all over.

Apparently not.

Mike Jurecki of XTRA 910 Sports in Phoenix is reporting that he is "[h]earing" that the Chiefs are "refusing" to pay Todd Haley the remainder of his contract, which suggests that Haley was fired for cause. As in did something detrimental to the team.

And, before anyone asks, playing Tyler Palko probably isn't a reason to fire him, especially when GM Scott Pioli already said, "That was not an issue at all." (I'm not sure the people saying playing Palko is a reason to be fired with cause are actually serious or not...I'm assuming not.)

These are issues usually resolved between the coach, team and the league so the process will move somewhere in that direction if it is indeed accurate.

It used to be the Raiders were the only team who had stories like this written about them, the alleged (and denied) phone bugging and the firing of a coach with cause.

Uh-oh: Are the Chiefs becoming the Raiders?

(Edit: They're actually like seven straight four-win seasons from being the Raiders.)

0 recs  |  132 comments

Comments

This isn'[t sounding good...

We knew the Hunts were cheap, but this is ridiculous

The thing is

The Chiefs don’t get their side of things out there. Like the Arrowhead Anxiety story, Pioli wasn’t even quoted so we have no clue how he feels about it. Maybe the Chiefs have a reason to fire Haley with cause…we just don’t know (but most fans are going to draw their own conclusions from their silence).

But

that’s not proof of anythingggggg.

Trying…to….not….comment….can’t….help….myself

Just sayin

We’ve all read/seen the same things and two rational people (like you and I) can come to different conclusions. I get that. And I pointed out above — maybe the Chiefs are right in this situation. Who knows? But, in general, if someone credible has reported that something is happening with my team, I can choose to believe even if it’s not the same level of “proof” that you use. I guess this is as close to saying we agree to disagree without actually saying it (twice).

I agree, and encourage it.

That’s why I come here.

The Chiefs keeping hush about the issue though. What do you think it says? I just think it says they like to keep hush about everything. They may or may not be planning on keeping this money from Haley. If they ARE, they’d better have a really good reason for it.

I mean they paid Herm what he was owed, didn’t they? That’s a lot of money to not do anything with the team. I don’t think this is a good piece of evidence to yank out the “cheap” label. But they didn’t with Haley. That tells me something pretty big happened somewhere.

If not, it’ll come out and the Chiefs will pay for it.

You are missing the point, Joel

The Raiders won their case against Lane Kiffen. But look at the fallout. They couldn’t pay enough to land a coach and had to settle with Art Shell.

This is a bad look when we are trying to land a top OC in a big turning point in our franchise.

Wasn't Shell hired right after Norv Turner?

And wasn’t Kiffin hired after Shell?

Cable Followed Kiffin

Not Shell. And the Cable hiring was in line with a 20 year hiring pattern from Al Davis. For the last 20 years in charge, he always followed up an “offensive minded” coach he fired with an offensive line coach. That said, his choices were absolutely restricted because of how he acted towards his coaches.

Details, details

Point is:
-Don’t be that guy.

Kiss the free agents goodbye.

This does not sound like an organi2ation a stud free agent would wanna get involved with. Really, quite embarrassing.

Yeah.

The Raiders have really had trouble signing guys.

For actual value YES

Anyone will play for 120% over the next highest bidder…

Yet

The Chiefs have been more successful under this regime at locking up their own young talent so they don’t hit free agency.

If anything is true

between this and the Arrowhead Anxiety article…even just a small number of the things being reported, then I’m just embarrassed.

this ^^^

and a few other not so cool incidents like the “charging firefighters to see a game” thing, and the “office staff salary cuts” during the spring

add those plus the Babb article (coffee, really?) and now this … yeah, not looking good for the home team

image-wise

Were they not supposed to charge the firefighters or something?

Don’t remember hearing about that

they requested 100 firefighters to be on the field for a 9/11 pregame ceremony...

…but wanted them to pay to stay and watch the game.

That was dumb as hell.

Was there ever a statement from them on that?

As I recall.

Donovan or someone blamed it on someone down on the food chain who was just doing what they thought they were supposed to.

Yanno, Pioli just has no tact

seems like a typical East coast bigwig that always gets his way

There a link?
Try a search.

There were multiple stories on it and the Chiefs reversed their decision when it became public.

Good thing they did
Pioli is too hard headed

And set in his way, which is attempting to be Belicheck and failing at it.

Hope we move on from him soon

You know Belicheck...

Isn’t a GM right? If Pioli was this horrible guy do you really think Robert Kraft would have suggested him to Clark?

Why wouldn’t he? Are they in some fraternity of Good Guy Greg’s where they help their competitors?

I'm saving judgement but Pioli's act could become old real fast
Really?
Are the Chiefs becoming the Raiders?
I mean, not really serious (considering the joke right after it)

But it’s usually the Raiders who are portrayed like this.

Yeah.

I was hoping this would all end and we’d have ourselves a nice little offseason.

Haha.

sorry man, this has been covered in spades in fanshots already

we’re done with it, discussion over already ;-)

I know, I know

I’m really late.

no worries, Joel

you’ve had a busy day with all the OC gnus

I wish the Chiefs would become the Raiders

At least they’ve been to and won a Super Bowl during our life times

try being a chiefs fan in the 80's
Palko was worthy of getting fired

Stanzi >>>> Palko

Ans Stanzi has never played a down

omg! I just realized something ...

Scott Pioli
Sarah Palin

both have the same initials
both have the same amount of letters in both first and last names
they are never seen together

omg!

think about it …

LMAO!
it just came to me ... sudden burst of white light inspiration :-)
they say cross dresing is an art
They're both guilty of spouting complete and total bullshit to the press...that's for sure.
Disagree

playing Tyler Palko isn’t a reason to fire him.

not putting the players on the field that give you the best chance to win
playing a guy that you know is gunna lose just to try and stick it to your boss

cant get much more detrimental to the team than that

sorry but Haley was not doing the job that he was hired to do, so why should the Chiefs have to pay him the remainder of his contract

Can you explain to me

When Pioli or Haley came out and said that Palko was Haley’s guy? How do we know that Pioli wasnt the guy making Haley play Palko

So you believe that Pioli

signed Orton and paid him $2 million only to then turn around and force Haley to play Palko?

Pioli could have cut Palko any day he wanted.

after one week of practice? Lots of coaches would have done the same.
I thought releasing Gaither was the reason for me
Hope Haley sues the Chiefs. He can join the others.

This is the logical end to what the Chiefs have done to themselves. Pioli undermined his coach with the media during the season. That alone wins Haley’s case. If Pioli wants that lawsuit with all the age discrimination cases, fine. Let’s have the depositions. Let’s have the leaks. Let’s take a good look at what Scott Pioli has been up to.

Can't sue.

Would go to NFL arbitration.

That was my first thought as well.

Maybe the "cause" will become apparent...

When Pioli releases those secretly taped cell phone conversations Haley had?

Or maybe Scott has some surveillance video of Haley snorting a line?

No telling.

Sure makes our team look bad…whatever the case. When we’re looking for new coordinators, and Free Agent players before too long?

I sure miss the days when the Chiefs were at least referred to as an organization that had “class”. We might have sucked…but we had some “class” at least. Now…we just suck.

Whether or not some of all this negative bullshit is true…the perception of it all is getting out there to the masses. And perception is 9/10ths of the law. Or, something like that.

can't take sides on this one.

anyone else get the feeling that haley & pioli are both a couple of assholes that the chiefs’ fans and chiefs’ players are better off not thinking about too much?

My growing fear is...that the wrong "asshole" was fired.

For the sake of the team that I love, I hope that feeling is wrong.

Oh, come on.

You’d rather Pioli was fired and Todd Haley was still the coach? Lend me some of that shit you are smoking.

Haley Had To Go

But that doesn’t mean Pioli has been doing a good job.

It just may be time for Pioli to leave...?
If they feel they have cause

Then theres obviously more to everything than the 1-sided stories we been getting. Some people need to calm down with the “see, Piolis the devil!” “he needs to go” yada yada yada. Just sounds ignorant.

Then maybe Scott should spin a little positive press his own way...and put an end to some of the speculations.

The hush hush bullshit on game day things is fine. But when it affects the way the whole damn team / organization / city looks? Then fucking speak up and say something.

Right

He should speak up everytime bullshit is spread, yeah, ok. The only person lookin like an idiot right now is Haley and the stupid story that came out that everyone thought would be top story for weeks and was wiped away a few days later. The dude doesn’t need to say shit but work on our offseason, period.

Exactly

I’m tired of the fucking media and some fans acting like they are entitled to hear Pioli and Hunt’s thoughts on every fucking conspiracy out there. I’d be pissed if they spent the time answering these questions as opposed to doing their damn jobs.

It's A Business With A High Profile

If Hunt and Pioli don’t want to talk to the press and don’t get their spin on the stories out there, speculation is going to happen. They’re in the wrong business if they want anonymity.

You don't hear this crap with other cities

except the usual suspects, NY, Chicago, Philly, Boston and to some extent LA. KC Media has it in their heads that they need to be like the “big boys” and investigate every inch of Arrowhead in hopes of churning out some “pulitzer material”. I know I don’t care if I hear Hunt and Pioli commenting on any of these accusations. All I want out of them is good players, good coaches and a good gameday experience. I don’t care about the TMZ shit.

Disagreed

If anything, the local media has been more quiet than the national press about Babb’s story. This was a big story…you’ve got a GM who apparently engaged in a very personal and toxic grudge match with his head coach and there are allegations that he was wiretapping employees. That is not something you hear from other teams.

No one alleged that except Haley.

Others speculated, at most saying “they wouldn’t be surprised.” (Which means Babb led them with a question)

Read the actual article.

I Did

And Babb made it clear, both there and in interviews he’s done since, that employees believe the team installs a culture of fear and paranoia.

If you don’t want to believe what Babb wrote, that’s your prerogative.

Fired former employees feeling they were scared and paranoid.

Different than accusations of wiretapping.

Come on.

Like I Said

When it’s one or two employees making fairly outlandish accusations, that’s an anomaly…more than that, it’s a pattern. But believe what you want.

That said, I don’t really care if Pioli is bugging the team’s offices and screaming about candy wrappers or if he isn’t, as long as he’s producing. But he isn’t producing. Before Kyle Orton fell on our laps, the best he could do for a backup QB after three years was Tyler Fucking Palko. The team lacks depth at most positions, his drafting has been scattershot, free agency has been terrible, and his top choice for coach was apparently a train wreck. The end result of that is that while this team might be competitive in one of the worst divisions in football, he’s still nowhere close to building a Super Bowl team or even winning a playoff game. That tells me that he’s doing things wrong…and as such, I don’t feel any obligation to give him the benefit of the doubt on any of the accusations if we don’t see dramatic improvement next year. Right now, he’s just another Bill Belichick protege who’s shown he wasn’t anything special once he wasn’t working for Belichick.

Simple really

You break your confidentiality agreement by going around spreading crazy rumors about bugged cellphones and whatnot (true or not) and your contract is void.

Yes!

This is the first thing that came to mind. If true, it would indicate that there is some truth to what was reported that he is saying, otherwise, why would Hunt/Pioli care?

They would care if it were a lie too
If true, it would indicate that there is some truth to what was reported that he is saying, otherwise, why would Hunt/Pioli care

If Haley was going around bad mouthing the team with lies Hunt/Pioli would care, if he was going around bad mouthing with the truth they would care too, per the confidentiality agreement.

Except that was all second hand accounts from Kent Babb.

I didn’t see one quote from Haley breaking anything confidential.

True. Of course we dont know for sure yet if the Chiefs are going to withhold the pay or not.

It looks pathetic to do that, even if you are in the right. Better to pay the man and move on.

Except he said it to Babb BEFORE he was fired

And we have no idea whether they were crazy rumors or not.

Romeo could well be our only saving grace....

…because what FA worth his salt is going to want to come play for the turd of an organization that the Chiefs have turned into. And you know what they say about trying to polish a turd……

Pioli may have saved a sinking ship by that one move, but the water-tight compartments seem to be filling up, little by little.

I just can’t believe what this Pioli hiring has evolved into. It could only happen to the Chiefs nation, one of the most loyal, but emotionally battered fan bases in the NFL.

Thank Clark Hunt
I dunno.

Is every free agent on AP all day long like us? Is this stuff even real prevalent in the national news?

ESPN, Yahoo!, and NationalFootballPost

all picked it up.

Chiefs’ PR reads the site and I wouldn’t be surprised if other teams/agents do as well.

Arrowhead Pride has been quoted or linked to by multiple national and local radio programs and websites.

Yup

Actually, the Kansas City media made a smaller deal of Babb’s story than the national media did. It was huge. Babb did an interview where he discussed how the Chiefs actually leaned on broadcasters they had arrangements with to pressure them not to push the story.

Maybe Pioli caught Haley snorting lines of coke off a strippers ass on his desk

Is that just cause?

Was she hot?
this is the deciding factor
Maybe Pioli caught Haley snorting lines of coke off Pioli's ass

We’ll never really know what happens behind the scenes.

Hate to say it but this is what I have been saying for years now. The Hunt family is a greedy bunch of business people worried about $$ over winning. .

Most the NFL insiders already know this…it’s now just slowly getting out to the KC public.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Look at all the good Lamar has done for the community and the league as a whole. All indications are that Clark is following in his dad’s footsteps. He is signing the people that Pioli has targeted, even giving big contracts to our own players that deserve them. I’d be curious to hear what “NFL insiders” you are talking about because everything I ever read about or listen to regarding the Hunt family or even Pioli is glowing in their admiration of them. (Except most crap coming from the local media nowadays.)

I Think People Assume Hunt Is Actively Involved

I really don’t see that, though. If anything, his actions to me indicate a boss who gives his people a lot of leeway to do their jobs with a minimum of interference or guidance. You didn’t hear stories about Hunt micromanaging Peterson’s decisions and you don’t hear things about him doing it with Pioli. In fact, Pioli’s contract stipulated that he got complete control over football operations.

Hunt just seems to judge people on the end result. If you want to spend, spend. If you want to be cheap, be cheap. But if you don’t get results, you’re gone. I don’t think there’s much evidence that Hunt is being cheap, though. Part of the reason they maintained so much salary cap space was that they had to re-sign so many guys the last two years and didn’t want to hamstring themselves. They’ve burned quite a bit of that space this last year.

This is a bunch of childish BS.

Get over it, pay the man and move on. It isn’t going to do anything but hurt the image of the Chiefs even if baby hunt feels butt hurt.

What if he doesn't deserve to be paid?
He deserves to be paid.

This is all crap he had the Chiefs in line to be in first place all year despite all the set backs. That is his job as coach. Anything this is about is shit from management. He may have been a stubborn ass but he did the job his was given. If they didn’t like it he should have been fired before the contract they agreed to.

Teams don't just not pay coaches.
Doesn't Matter

There’s a reason nobody except Al Davis gets into these pissing contests in the NFL…because when you treat staff like that, good coaches don’t want to come work for you. Aside from Jon Gruden, who got some extremely unconventional concessions written into his contract, the Raiders have largely had to make do with scraps for the last 20 years. That’s why even utterly incompetent coaches who half-assed their final seasons still get their contracts paid by every other team.

And let’s look at the big picture here. The previous head coach and several current and past employees either accused or at least suspected the team of bugging their phones. The GM has fired all but three people he inherited and is reportedly screaming at people about candy wrappers in the hallway. This is not a place that up and coming young coordinators and assisants are looking at and saying “Oh yeah, that’s where I want to go and build my career.”

And Just Because I Don't Want It To Be Forgotten

The Todd Haley Rat Salad Incident

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2006-11-23/restaurants/i-smell-a-mcrat/

Those are the worst pictures of Mike Shanahan yet
Sued For $1.7 Million

I have a general philosophy that the kind of people who sue fast food companies for large sums of cash for things that don’t involve actual injury, illness or fatality are usually unstable in their overall lives and should be avoided like the plague. Especially people who sue over “mental trauma” (or whatever).

Part of me wants to not care about this story

and other stories that make the organization shine in a negative light. But, I have always been proud to be a Chiefs fan because I always thought the players, coaches, and front office were classy people that didn’t make the news for things like this. I’d expect this sort of garbage out of the Raiders, but not the Chiefs. I really hope this stuff isn’t true and that the players, coaches, and fans can move on gracefully and concentrate on a great off-season where we make this team a whole lot better.

This is embarrasing.

A contract has nothing to do with like or dislike in a sports game.

Regardless of what you think about Haley, this is terrible for trying to get new coaching and playing talent into the organization unless the front office gets in front of this quick and states that they plan on paying what the contract guarantees in this situation.

"Fired for cause"

That, folks, is reason in corporate America to NOT pay someone. If you are fired for cause, you do not qualify for severance or unemployment pay. You can take it to an arbiter, and plead your case.

Your move, Mr. Todd Haley.

I await your action.

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