Arrowhead Pride

chiefs_fan_forever - January 31, 2012 reply

To the Chiefs, of course

I don't wish the man any ill will

But I don’t think he’s that good. He’s a system guy who lacks the creativity to game plan to the strengths of his roster and to the weaknesses of his opponents. He’s not capable of making adjustments in a game and his play calling is atrocious. Good luck to him wherever he goes. I’m glad he’s no longer in KC.

Buck'O - January 31, 2012 via iPhone app reply

As a head coach I agree

As an OC I don’t. I think he had just too much on his plate in KC which is largely his fault but its still a reason. As a coordinator he was much better at gameplanning and was extremely good at adjusting. Did it help that he had a HoF QB in Zona? Yes. But just look at the SB against the Steelers where his gameplanning and adjustments nearly won them the game and if I remember he had the same players in the first half as he did in the second.

GenericBrand - January 31, 2012 reply

I find it interesting

Recently talk to a guy here in Cleveland who said the same thing about Crennel.. Takes on to much, gets in over his head.

Not my opinion just an observation.

Co-signed.

Draw

DrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDrawDraw.

Did I mention he ran far too many draw plays?

You mean you're not a fan of the R2P2 offense?

Draw plays are ok.

Draw plays on 3rd and forever? No more please.

nateforchiefs - January 31, 2012 reply

Our offense sucked under Haley.

Does this mean we don’t have to worry about the Steelers anymore? Oh, wait, they have a quarterback don’t they?

G.L. - January 31, 2012 reply

yeah they have a LT as a QB out there :)

GaryfromIA - January 31, 2012 reply

LOL

G.L. - January 31, 2012 reply

If the Steelers excel under Haley

I’m blaming Pioli hardcore!

Matt_Grbac - January 31, 2012 via mobile reply

Sometimes you just need a change in venue.

Just because something works well in one situation doesn’t mean it’ll work well in another. Case in point, Haley did well in AZ and his offense stank here in KC.

Offense didn't stink here - the QB stunk

Makes a huge difference. Our run game was great to good during Todd’s reign.

True.

Once Orton got in there, it did come to life.

But that was without Haley interfering in the playcalling.

The guy’s play calls were atrocious. Our offense was anemic when he called the plays.

BCRavenJHawkfan - January 31, 2012 reply

No, that was without Haley interfering on who played QB!

Did you see the playcalls?

Come on, that’s all we could talk about for weeks on end! Draw after stupid draw. Short dinky passes. It was awful. Yeah, Cassel wasn’t good, but don’t continue to call the same damn plays!!

Also, Haley certainly did interfere on who played QB. Tyler Palko was a Haley guy, and he played when he shouldn’t have. He refused to yank him even after he played so terribly.

Maybe Todd wanted Palko to set the record for most turnovers in a game

so Palko could be remembered forever in the NFL

Well he was a Haley guy.

this is a really simple way to look at Haley's season

He didn’t call plays first of all, secondly, he had no choice with palko

LHO - January 31, 2012 via mobile reply

Really?

How about Kyle Orton and Ricky Stanzi?

Orton had been there a week, and then broke his finger

stanzi only ran the practice squad, and palko was more prepared to run the offense. Once orton busted his finger, palko gave him the best chance to win

LHO - January 31, 2012 reply

The Broken Finger Wasn't A Problem Once Haley Got Fired

And it was still broken. Haley was just using it as an excuse to bench Orton. Hell, Orton didn’t even come off the sideline once he got hurt and said he could have played.

Not to mention that Haley spent half the week giving Palko snaps in practice and benched Orton for the first quarter until sticking him in for a half-assed flea flicker. The reason Palko was on the field was because Haley WANTED him on the field. Because Haley was a moron.

And yes, we all saw him calling plays.

At the very least he was constantly interfering in the playcalling.

How do you know that?

LHO - January 31, 2012 reply

Because He Has Eyes

And because Muir and the players admitted it after Haley was fired.

It can't be a coincidence that the playcalling looked better once he was gone

the playcalling actually improved once cassel went down

LHO - January 31, 2012 reply

When Would That Have Been?

Which games with Palko, where we scored 10 points or less, featured improved play calling? The one where Palko couldn’t score a TD against the worst pass defense in the league? The one whe he was only able to score a TD off of a fluke Hail Mary? The one where he couldn’t even get three downs before turning it over?

No, that was with a quarterback who could go through is progressions and make a decision

Matt Cassel can’t do that. Tyler Palko sure as hell can’t do that. Kyle Orton can. Ben Roethlisberger can.

Simple fact: a good QB will make any OC look better. Haley can help where the Steelers need it most: a strong run game and the continued development of their young receivers. Haley was successful as AZ’s OC and his run game here was strong. HC experience and love/respect of the Steeler franchise makes him the ideal fit.

And the Rooney family is on record that they want to get back to running the ball.

Could be interesting to watch around draft time. Tag and trade Mike Wallace or trade Antonio Brown to move up and get Trent Richardson?

Unlikely, but not impossible.

Steelers have best young WR's in football

No way they trade either of those guys. They’ll be looking at getting younger on defense and fixing the line while adding talent at RB. They’ll be tough again next year, but they need a good draft and they have some salary cap issues.

To be honest, they’d be smart to pursue Peyton Hillis in free agency. He’d be loved in Pittsburgh. Sign Hillis and run him, Mendenhall, and a burner from the draft. Find the next Jamaal Charles in the 3rd.

Why not trade them?

If your owner has mandated that the team will become focused on the run again, then why not use one of those WRs as trade bait? And with those needs you just listed, it makes even more sense for them to try and add early rd draft picks. That’s a definite possibility if they decide to tag and trade Mike Wallace.

And if they have cap issues, then dumping Wallace helps, and it makes more sense to draft a RB instead of paying a guy like Hillis who is demanding more money than he has earned.

Wallace is the one who opens up the defense because he is hard to cover deep

Why would you take away that advantage

Salary cap, another talented WR on the roster, team leadership wanting to get back to running the ball.

I’m not saying that I would do it. But from their standpoint, it’s not an unrealistic situation.

Mike Wallace is slated to be an UFA on a team that already has salary cap issues. He will command a top-dollar contract that they might not be able to afford. So a tag and trade could be a solid move. There is no way he would go for less than a 1st rd pick which gives the Steelers multiple options in addressing other needs.

Wallace is the best deep threat in the game

No way he gets traded. That would be like us trading Charles to draft a WR.

No, that would be like us trading Charles and using the picks to address other needs.

The Steelers do not have a solid roster of RBs anymore. After Mendenhall, the talent curbs off a good deal. And, the addition of another 1st rd pick would also allow them to target a player like Dont’a Hightower with their other 1st rd pick.

Walking out of the 1st rd with Trent Richardson and Dont’a Hightower…yeah, I’d trade Charles for that.

Hard to say.

Haley did try to get Orton in there against Chicago…and we can be fairly confident that was supposed to be a deep throw.

He really didn’t get a shot with Orton as the QB.

The problem is

Orton should have started that game so he could be in the flow of the game instead of coming off the bench doing a flea flicker

Unless he still didn't have a firm grasp on the playbook.

The raiders threw Carson Palmer right into the mix and it bit them in the ass for the first 2 games against division opponents.

It is impossible to say he should have started that game with the complete lack of information we have about his readiness at that time.

I'm sure whatever he knew about the playbook was still better than Palko

How did that knowledge of the playbook work for Palko?

Maybe Orton should have gotten more than 40% of the first team snaps in practice.

chiefs_fan_forever - January 31, 2012 reply

Again, HIS VERY FIRST PLAY, THE LINE COLLAPSES!

Orton gets a dislocated finger.
Simple: Cassell’s fault!

Derp!

crashman6 - January 31, 2012 reply

Under RC, not Haley

Supersport - January 31, 2012 reply

The QB! The QB! The QB!!!!!!!

Don’t pay attention to the line! Nothing to see here!

crashman6 - January 31, 2012 reply

Another good example....Bill Belichick

Sucked in Cleveland. Juggernaut with the Pats.

mistamic - January 31, 2012 reply

Pretty much sums it up

old_school - January 31, 2012 via mobile reply

Haley was a run first OC

and the Steelers have the personnel and depth to pull it off. He would probably succeed because he would have no doubt who to start at QB each week. Tyler Palko…come on dude?!?!

ChiefRocka - January 31, 2012 reply

I don't know if that is entirely true.

They sure threw alot when he was in AZ.
The year they went to the SuperBowl, They threw the ball 765 and ran it 452 times. including the post-season (via nfl.com) I think it has alot to do with the personnel he had to work with.

Because he lacked confidence in his QB

Supersport - January 31, 2012 reply

If he is made the OC the Steelers fans will run him out of town after 2 years

The only time when Todd had any involvement with a successful offense he had a future HOFer in Kurt with the Cards and Weiss was running the offense here the 1 year we had success.

So Ben isn't a future HOFer?

There’s a good chance he has success in Pittsburgh, just like any team with a good quarterback, cough(Pioli)cough.

old_school - January 31, 2012 via mobile reply

I think he will be

Just watching Todd run our team into the ground offensively makes me believe he may be in over his head when it comes to offensive play calling. He is suppose to be an offensive guru and those guys are suppose to put the players in the best situation to succeed and he didn’t do that with all the draws and 5 yard passes. When I’m at home sitting on the coach calling out the plays, I know the defense knows what’s coming too

This is just my opinion

but I think that as crazy as Haley was acting, he was still somewhat handcuffed to Cassel. I doubt you would see him feel the need to run draws all game long when he has Big Ben in his arsenal.

old_school - January 31, 2012 reply

Uhmmm?

Run our offense into the ground? Were you around during the Herm years? Haley’s first year he won twice as many games as Herm did the previous year.

Zif - January 31, 2012 reply

Trotting Palko out there was running the offense into the ground

that’s pretty much forfeiting the game when Todd saw Palko constantly turning the ball over

And his options...

at the time were? Palko and who else? Orton showed up on a Friday so no pratice his first week, Orton’s second week he pulled a Brodie and injured his hand. His third week Orton was still Brodied, and by then it was all over. Say what you will, but a person has to be one hell of a coach to win even one game with Palko in as QB, and Haley pulled that off on the road.

I challenge you to find one HC past or present that could pull off a road win with Palko as QB.

Zif - January 31, 2012 reply

He never gave Stanzi a chance

and I know your argument will be he couldn’t beat out Palko, but Todd made lame ass excuses not to play Stanzi who looked better than Palko in preseason

Stanzi had no problem beating out Palko under RAC.

Took him all of one day.

Yup

Palko was done as a Chiefs QB as soon as Haley got fired. That tells me Stanzi was not a worse QB.

Doesn't mean he believed the Stanzi was any better or any worse

He just knew he would not keep if Job if he didn’t.

Actually, Yes It Did

No coach is going to go with a 5th round rookie over a vet unless that vet completely sucks.

And Your Assessment Of Orton Is Incorrect

Orton’s hand injury wasn’t bad enough to keep him from playing. His finger was still broken when Crennel started him. And before that game, Haley wouldn’t give Orton starter reps in practice.

Palko over Orton and Stanzi had nothing to do with ability…it was a pretty clear “fuck you” to the boss.

Orton got half the reps for at least two weeks

And Palko Got Half The Reps

And all of the playing time. Even before Orton got hurt.

Haley was playing Palko and benching Orton out of spite and stupidity. No other reason for it.

Really?

Maybe they would hire him,and he could bring his old Buddy Palco with him for a backup to Big Ben.Bottom line is they can have him.

chiefsfool - January 31, 2012 reply

I live in Pittsburgh and I'm a huge fan of Haley's

So I would absolutely love to see this.

Todd’s philosophy is run first and it showed here. His philosophy aligns with what the Steelers are looking for, and quite frankly, I also think they’re looking for someone to discipline Roethlisberger’s play and influence. Todd’s that guy.

The situation is still vastly different than what it was in KC. In Pittsburgh, the o-line is bad except for Pouncey, who is still overrated. They have great young receivers though, which Haley would be great for, and they have a quarterback, but they don’t really have elite talent at the RB position; something I suspect they’ll address in this year’s FA or draft.

Would be a great situation for Todd and I hope he gets the job.

This drives Haley-haters crazy

Of course the Steelers are looking at Todd Haley. He’s a first-tier OC. I hope this works out for Haley. Scott Pioli actually went to the media to undermine his own head coach during the season. If Haley is hired by the Steelers, it would be a poke in the eyes of Hunt/Pioli.

I’m a Chiefs fan, but not a fan of how Hunt/Pioli operate. Fans and the media loved Haley in AZ. He’s a good guy who develops players as well as anyone. And, if you watched AZ when Haley was teamed with Warner and Fitzgerald, you can see a master play-caller in action. A thing of beauty.

Hope this works for Haley. The Steelers are one of two organizations the Chiefs say they admire most.

ChiefConcern - January 31, 2012 reply

This drives the Pioli-haters crazy.

No evidence of Pioli going to media.

somebody did

I think Pioli leaked things to the media that he wanted the media to pick up and run with regarding Haley

To justify firing him without public backlash

Backfired a bit in Chicago

But It seems clear to me, that for what ever reason Pioli wanted Haley gone even before the season.

It leaves me wondering.. Recent leak that Todd Haley’s fathers assesment of Cassel was not a winner? I think this fight was over a QB and it turned into a full blown disfunctional mess.

Good point. I forgot about Pioli wanting Haley fired at the end of last off-season when they made the playoffs

May have been the QB. Cassel really looked overmatched in that playoff game and Pioli refused to bring in any competition other than a 5th rd draft pick. People will point to Pioli picking up Orton, but there’s no way in my mind that Pioli signs him and pays him a couple million dollars with him becoming a FA if Cassel isn’t going to IR

What?

You sound as paranoid as Haley did with the whole cell phone tampering thing. What on earth gives you grounds to think that Pioli “leaked” things to the media to tarnish Haley’s image? Do you have anything to back that up?

cheapham - January 31, 2012 reply

Anonymous call to Parkinson's saying Haley canceled meeting to go out to eat

Fake national outrage over a lil Wayne concert

HIV 2 Elway - January 31, 2012 via mobile reply

Parkinson's?

Can’t say I’ve heard about that? Is there a link to that story?

And Lil Wayne himself was the source of the Todd Haley/Lil Wayne fiasco, the media took it from there. Do people actually think Pioli somehow pressure Weezy into tweeting about Haley? That’s some pretty serious conspiracy theorizing…

cheapham - January 31, 2012 reply

He's making fun of Parkins.

Yeah, someone made those calls. No evidence it was Pioli. There was a leak in the organization for a while.

One of the commenters here claimed that Haley was the problem, and supposedly had inside info.

Who knows. All I know is what I saw on the field. The offense was terrible.

What about the Bowe story that Haley was being mean to Bowe so Bowe went to Pioli?

Only time any news gets out from management at Arrowhead Drive is when it makes Haley the bad guy. On the other hand, there are true stories about Chiefs management that puts them in a bad light, which obviously isn’t from Pioli but is reality (Charging Firefighters for tix, age discrimination, breach of contract with Haley)

That came from Wright, who said it came from a reliable source.

Of course this is Wright, so take it with a grain of salt.

Seemed like any story that got out of Arrowhead...

…painted Todd in a bad light. You’ve made a very good point.

Same could be said about Pioli.

Maybe it's Hunt leaking all this stuff!?!??!?!??!?!??!?1

Bullshit.

To justify firing him without public backlash

Five blowout losses of 27 or more points will do that. Pioli wasn’t exactly firing Tom Landry or even Hank Stram. It boggles my mind that the conspiracy theorists think that Haley was so popular in K.C., that Pioli was afraid to fire him without spreading rumors to the the media first.

Yup

Pioli didn’t need excuses to fire Haley…Haley’s record and behavior were sufficient cause. The guy couldn’t beat good teams, couldn’t get along with any capable OC, couldn’t call plays in on time, wasn’t a good game manager, and apparently couldn’t get along with his boss. Any one of those is sufficient reason to fire an NFL coach. And that’s even if you discount the wiretapping allegations and hobo attire.

Check out Cassel's wins and losses in his one season in NE and tell me if the "couldn't beat good teams" was a Haley thing

Truth is, Cassel couldn’t beat good teams in NE and the trend followed him to KC. I don’t think it’s all on Haley for that. The proof is in the puddin’-Bill Cosby. Not getting along with Pioli or OC’s was a downfall of Haley’s but being tied to an anchor as a HC would be frustrating to anyone if you’re thrown into the water with those 3 QBs as options.

Haley didn't adjust his playcalling to help Cassel though

Teblow is a far worse QB but the Donkeys changed the offense to help him win

Neither

did BB in NE. BB has to be one of the worste all time HC’s in the NFL.

And speaking of the Donkeys… How long do you think they will have success with that changed offense?

Just sayin’. How many coaches do you know of that could pull off even one win in the NFL with Palko at QB?

Zif - January 31, 2012 reply

No other coach would have Palko on the roster

and I’m not saying that Denver will succeed with that offense, but you have to help your players out.

In NE all Cassel did was chuck the ball to Moss, who was still in his prime, and he would out jump everyone for the ball

Yup

Palko never sees the field under Belichick. When he lost Bledsoe, he went with the 6th round rookie (Tom Brady) over a scrub vet.

It was actually Brady's 2nd year

My Bad

But it doesn’t change my point that Belichick would never start Tyler Palko given the same situation.

not sure how you could adjust the playcalling to help Cassel honestly...

maybe run, run, inclomplete pass, punt, then play defence was the playcalling Haley thought best helped Cassel

You don't believe that Pioli planted stories

that Haley had dinner with his family?

If Haley fails

the Haley haters will say see, I told you I told you

If Haley succeeds in Pittsburg the Haley haters will say, no well he went to a great organization

Would be interesting to watch

I hate the game, not the player.

If he does well, I’ll give him credit.

I have no ill will towards Haley and hope he gets the job and does well

Too much blame has been put on him in my opinion for the Chiefs offense being terrible. Take away Charles and Moeki and replace them with Battle and Anthony Becht and the worst RT in the NFL and what do you expect? Throw in Cassel, Stanzi and Palko as QBs and I’d say they had the worst 3 QBs on an NFL roster until Orton showed up. Say what you want about him not playing Orton, but he didn’t show up until Fri the first week so no practice, then took snaps the floolowing week and got hurt on the first play. The Chiefs still won that game if I remember correctly though, then Orton was hurt for the Jets game. Two days later Haley’s fired and Orton’s well enough to play

i concur.

Injuries 1st and foremost doomed Chiefs and Haley this year. If Haley and Pioli got along, he would most likely still be here. Orton IMO is barely better than Cassel and that isnt saying much.

Sinny - January 31, 2012 reply

If Orton doesn't get hurt, we probably win the division and get into the playoffs

How do you fire Haley then? Pioli just wanted him gone. Personality conflict. Shame, because I would rather have kept Haley than Pioli.

so what if we did win the division this year?

Haley did it last year and now he is gone. We are screwed. Crennel will win the division if our team is healthy, sad thing is so would have Haley with Cassel at QB. So now we have a players coach as our HC. Ganz, Cunningham and Herm Edwards were all Players coaches, we are doomed.

Sinny - January 31, 2012 reply

What a bunch of losers.

Almost February and they still don’t have an OC. Obviously no one wants to work there, and they’re going to be picking up other teams’ leftovers, as usual.

I hear Muir is still on staff...

hmmm

Most nfl coaches are somebodies left overs……

Sinny - January 31, 2012 reply

Correct Me If I'm Wrong, But

Doesn’t Haley’s dad still work for the Steelers? If so, I’m suspecting this might just be a courtesy look.

I don’t particularly care about Haley now that he’s gone…he was a bad coach and a terrible offensive mind, in my opinion. I think the Steelers would be foolish to hire him as an OC. The man is unstable and constantly had problems working with others on the offense. His ceiling appears to be that he’s a good WR coach.

Nope

Nevermind…Haley’s dad works for the Dolphins now. He hasn’t been with the Steelers for two decades.

My assessment of Haley’s skills still stands, though.