Arrowhead Pride

it's been said many times by many people: micromanagement kills incentive, etc

He was supposed to get luck

Mission accomplished

ArrowheadHunter - January 4, 2012 reply

He now falls on Sword?

Suck for Luck.

It’s a ~~legitimate~~ strategy.

I personally think the coach should be involved in all personnel decisions

Coaches that have more input in the players their coaching usually have more success than the ones that don’t. Belichek, cowher, fisher, parcells, etc. pioli seems like the type to make the decisions based solely on what he wants.

SoCalChief17 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

I think historically Pioli has proven otherwise

Pope, Urban, Breaston, etc? Seems to me Pioli takes his coaches’ input into consideration.

fongKC - January 4, 2012 reply

Pendergast Too

I doubt Pioli hired Haley’s buddy from AZ just because he loves shitty defensive coordinators.

the only guy worse than pendergast was greg robinson

playoffs anyone, neither team punt game

Which is worse? DC named Clancy

or OC named Homer?

Lol sounds like their parents did it wrong.

I had a thought today

How in the Hell did the 12 apostles get names like

Peter, Paul, John, James, Andrew in the middle east of biblical times?

Those were the common names of the region at the time

The more Muslim sounding names of today originate farther East

Wiki is your friend.

Peter, a name derived from the Greek word for rock, is also known as Simon Peter, Cephas (Greek: Κηφᾶς) and Kepha (Hebrew: כיפא‎). Both Cephas and Kepha also mean rock. His original name was Shimon or Simeon.

so, John Paul George and Ringo ... oh wait

Okay

so in different versions he would have names that match the language. That makes sense

I like the King James version.

But I only read the parts that sound cool when put to music. Mamas and Papas and Dio.

I'm certainly no expert on what is or isn't a common name in the bible

What I do know is that they find many many artifacts (mostly ostuaries) that have those names on them. James and Mary, for example, were the most common names in the region at the time.

If memory serves, Jesus is actually the most unusual name.

Thanks

I think of all those long gone and what their lifes must have been like.

Whether Famous or Mundane like me they all had lifes worth living and still reasonate into today with us talking about them like we Do :)

Many of the stories are actually much much older

I’m not saying the people in the Bible weren’t real or important. (I believe they were) But many of the stories in teh Bible are the result of writers placing those folks into much older legends or contexts. which is really pretty cool when you think about it….

I hope to God they invent time travel while I can still use it.

I want to go back and see if there really were giants in those days. Old legends and myths are so fascinating because a few have turned out to be so literal.

Lots of good evidence that dragon, giants and the like

are probably based on ancients finding fossils of long deead creatures. For example, they found an old temple ruin where a cyclops worship was part of the tradition. In th ruin they founf mamouth skulls. The hole in a mamouth skull looks a lot like a single eye socket

Ups proved unicorns exist today in DTR's thread.

Did he?

Or did the unicorns prove that Ups exists?

I think it's past Ups' bedtime.

Or he’s waiting for the moon to go back behind the clouds. Hard to type with paws.

ha! that's good ...

yessirree jimbob, that’s a HOWLER right there! (oh, I see what you did)

I’m actually a semi-retired and formerly unpaid professional nightowl :-)

of course I don't exist! you poor, misguided, foolish child ...

and that skull is like TOTALLY FREAKING AWESOME KEWL!

(and, interestingly enough, almost as old as I am)

It is our History

and the fact that so many of the oral histories of Man have the same events in them is truly astounding.

We are a part of that, I look at old pictures from the 1800’s and see people living like I do today. Truly strange and relevant. I can not imagine what life in 2250 would look like with the changes we have seen in the last 100 years

I'm convinced it will look like

Idiocracy

Ha

with implanted social media to tie it all together

someday, Steve, the technology will be such that we'll be able to THINK something and it will instantly appear on twitter

following which our homes will be immediately bombarded with deadly gamma rays by the thought police for having such evil thoughts about Tyler Palko, XIII (the great great great great great great grandson of the legendary Chiefs QB, widely regarded as the savior of the franchise during the great rewriting of history in the year 2125)

Or because he was a stop gap to RC

Which I think was the plan all along.

SoCalChief17 - January 4, 2012 reply

Yeah, RAC and his big bad hip.

Him and Weis had hip problems right?

Pioli likes his broken coaches.

SoCalChief17 - January 4, 2012 reply

Weis made that scooter look badass.

Gaither.

Consideration, sure

But I don’t think the Haley/Pioli relationship worked ultimately because Haley wouldn’t play puppet for Pioli.

SoCalChief17 - January 4, 2012 reply

Because that was the patriot way?

Chieffan_Toby - January 4, 2012 reply

Solid. How did he say that word, solid? Solid solid, or SOLID BY GOD! solid? Or eh, he's solid.

Is Philbin the type to move into a totally different situation and light the fuse on a potentially explosive offense? Or is he a great “team player” who “takes direction well” and “meshes well with everyone?”

who would call the plays?

Who would create the plays?

we'll hold up random signs like the oregon ducks

That's why we need chip Kelly and rg3

ArrowheadHunter - January 4, 2012 reply

Gimick offenses don't work in the NFL. Unless you've got an in with the Man Above.

Bleedingredandgold - January 4, 2012 reply

I can live with RAC as HC

Need a new OC aND OLC.

Need new QB (Orton, maybe?) and Oline help, C esp. Maybe new WR coach, gotta work on the passing game.

if RAC as HC, need DC. Need an upgrade at NT, maybe a little LB help. Upgrade a Safety if we can, start grooming a new CB or two

Hudson is likely the C

I’m hoping Powe’s the NT.

poe

I hope they draft poe if he makes it to 2nd. If not there is 2 others. Poe plays in 34 on that bama d. Powe must not that great, inactive almost every game.

wolfpack0735 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

Dontari Poe? He plays for Memphis.

maybe we can hire weis just for sundays games as oc

I don't think he can fix our broken quarterback just working one day a week.

looking for a puppet and probably telling candidates Cassel is starting QB

no wonder Fisher didn’t want the job. Romeo might be best Chiefs can do

Blah

Fisher probably didn’t want the job because as a veteran coach with past success, he probably wants full control of personnel, which is Pioli’s background and wouldn’t likely give up.

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

Yeah, won't give up on Cassel.

Why wouldn't Pioli be interviewing coaches and tell then anything other than the QB under contract is what we have?

What else would you like him to say? He can’t guarantee anyone else is signed or drafted. What else could he legitimately claim to a potential coach?

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

Why ~~wouldn’t~~ would Pioli

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

funny how interviews work both ways !

Don't ask the interviewee "do you have any questions?" if you can't answer those questions as the interviewer

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

The interviewee may suspect he will have said quarterback shoved down his throat.

After asking the interviewer if any effort will be made to improve on the most important position on a football team and the interviewee receives a negative response, he may have found that unacceptable. They part friends until they meet again on the football field on opposite sides of the gridiron.

Ok

Again, considering Pioli can only speak on the players on the team currently, how could Pioli talk about anything else besides wanting the players on the field that gives the team the best chance to win???

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

Who says he can only talk about current players on the team?

I believe if I were interviewing for the job, I would want to know what the future plans for improvement might be. Almost every company has at least a 5 year plan, which involves products, personnel, etc.

Pioli's going to tell a coach who might be hired by another team what his draft plans are?

Great point

It benefits no one revealing whatspecific future plans are for the team to someone not on the team, and again, their are no certainties with it anyway

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

our plan is to win more games ...

Throw a wrench into it all

“our plan is to lose more games so we can have the best draft pick possible to find that elite QB to satisfy your ‘demands’ as a recently fired coach”

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

ha!

That might intrigue Gruden.

Yes, that was a great point.

I now sit here, head down, in shame.

Buck up Pibbs.

I hope we trade up for RG3.

peyton coming first look at my sig for proof

Past performance does not guarantee future results.

yes but look what montana did if healthy u got to take a strong look at getting manning

no thanks

very limited shelf life with Manning, at best … and cost a fortune

and with our OLine he’s liable to get himself killed anyway

I thought you were making our line better :)

I am!

… by using our draft picks on actual, you know, Offensive Linemen instead of tossing them to the Colts for a player with 2 yrs of service left and a freshly operated on spinal column

If Manning becomes available

It’s likely that he is cut and becomes a FA

Yeah, I thought that would make Ups happy.

i would say montana line and our line right now are about the same

Montana's line was great

Center Tim Grunhard, RG Will Shields,
LG Dave Szott, LT , John Alt.

When we were great we had good O lines. The AP thinks all we need is a good QB and it fixes all the problems.

If we have good play calling with a good o line it will fix all our problems.

rdlvegas85 - January 4, 2012 reply

Good play calling with a good O line

and Montana.

Hey, cool.

Great, he can vamp on what direction the team wants to go

It durant mean anything is certain, being my point. There is no point in talking about what you would like to do when that involves factors you can’t control, like where free agents sign or where draft picks fall and to what team. Pioli can talk all about wanting to find an elite QB, pretty much every team’s goal through those means, but it has absolutely zero certainty. So again, what does it matter about what you want when the only certainties are what you currently have under contract?

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

Even saying that much would be too much.

Say Fisher gets hired by Miami, and about three months from now he’s considering whether we might trade up ahead of him in the draft. Knowing whether or not Pioli is satisfied with Cassel would be a huge advantage to him.

Agreed

For someone who never tips his hand in a specific direction, telling someone outside of the team structure anything is highly unlikely.

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

After Fisher was quoted saying something about a team not having a quarterback.

Kinda makes you wonder if he was talking about the Chiefs. Maybe, we are stuck with Cassel. If that becomes a fact, it will say lots about Pioli. And probably not very flattering.

not having a QB? hey now, we have Matt Ca ... oh wait!

never mind …

fisher wants another vince young

Considering he didn't want to play Young towards the end

I doubt that’s the case.

He never wanted Vince Young

saskwatch - January 4, 2012 reply

oh, great, justt great ... yet ANOTHER "shadowy figure" ... like Pioli isn't enough?

Brandt said Philbin … has… “operated successfully in the shadows”

btw, terrific investigative work, Joel … we’ll make a JOURNALIST out of you yet! (huge grin)

our shadow organization strikes fear in our enemies

We need more shades on the Arrowhead Field apparently

quiet, there's a black van outside my house with the chiefs logo

very suspicious.

coach will baldwin play sunday

answer, well baldwin been practicing great all week, and whoever gives us the best opportunity on sunday to win will play. BS.

http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/joe-philbin/cf2ee0a8-4db5-4c99-bdd6-d81973ad68fa

It's amazing that our AP "powers to be" are so fully endorsing Crennel.

Maybe you all should read about Joe Philbin, pretty impressive and maybe he would bring Flynn along. I like that Pioli is exploring other possibilities.

I have no doubt it's a positive endorsement ... no team page will say anything negative about their own personnel

had you looked at the Chiefs website a week before Haley was fired it would have said only good things about him … a third-party outside and non-biased source would be a better place to look

And the same thing about Crennel? Right?

no doubt ... go look at the Chiefs page right now, I imagine it's entirely positive on Romeo

so, if that’s your only source and standard to judge by … “The Devil You Know” would apply i this case: we already know the players like and respect Crennel, we know he has prior experience, we know he can motivate the team, we know a lot about him, including the fact that HE knows our players and system, our strengths and weaknesses, better than anyone on the planet

BS, Crennel probably knows very little about our O. Why are you so "in love" with

him? Heck, I like the guy but the D gave up on him many times this year or his D playcalling was off. 40+ point losses. In the Raider game, they gave up two long bombs and a fake field goal for a TD. Again, I like Crennel but he sure has his warts too.

he's one of the most respected DC's in the business ... what makes you think he doesn't understand ANY offense he comes across?

to even suggest that he doesn’t understand our offense is ludicrous

I think jcox is arguing that RAC knows how to pick our offense apart

putting it together and making it run properly is another different

something*

I'm saying that RAC is not the one to be "running" the offense. He still has a

full time job with the D and sometimes that’s even more than he can handle. He’s not HC material in my opinion and it would hurt our D’s progress.

that's why they hire OC's ... to do things like, you know ... run the offense

It just seems that you and maybe Joel, decide you like Crennel and then

that’s the big push (not that anything we say makes much of a difference) but then you try to dominate the discussion. I’ve stated that I like Crennel but you end up hurting the D without him having full concentration and then he’s not (IMO) qualified to be very involved in the O. Sure, you hire an OC but I personally prefer an offensive coach running the team and I really don’t think that Crennel would do a very good job overall, and his past does perhaps reflect that.

right

I’m the ONLY one on all of Arrowhead Pride who’s come out to say “hey, I like Romeo Crennel as our next Head Coach”

not one other person on this entire blog has EVER said ANYTHING like that …

right

you got it!

You sure love to use your sharp tongue.

I’ve been reading on here a lot and you do get the "Hire Crennel" prize from what I’ve seen. You bully…lol.

you've been "attacking" me for supporting Crennel and giving you what I consider valid reasons to keep him on as HC

all I’ve been doing is speaking my mind, just as you have … let’s not turn this into some personal issue here, ok?

I haven’t “dominated” anything here … it was you, me, you me … that’s pretty even in my book :-)

OK ups, but I don't and haven't attacked. I don't have to.

Hey ups

Hey, I like Romeo Crennel as our next Head Coach.

You’re not the only one and contrary to popular belief, you haven’t brainwashed the rest of us into supporting your point of view.

(At least we think you haven’t….)

TheScootness - January 5, 2012 reply

Why would you prefer an offensive head coach?

Let's have some input. What are the most successful teams

over the past several years and are the HC’s involved in the offense of not? Let’s see: NO, GB, NE, Texans, SD, KC under Vermeil, etc.

Offensive minded coaches seem to get more involved into the tempo of the game.

Ravens and Steelers ...

your honor, the DEFENSE rests

Chief-blinders-on - January 4, 2012 reply

The Ravens haven't really done that much since their Super Bowl

They are good, but 2000 was awhile ago.

the ravens just secured the #2 seed

and are 8-0 at home this year… I wouldn’t write them off just yet

neiowakcfan - January 4, 2012 reply

didn't they make the playoffs last year, too?

seems to me they even beat some team in the first round before collapsing in the second half AT Pittsburgh (the team that went on to … oh yeah, the Super Bowl)

Both Head coaches are involved in the offense and both

started their careers on offense. The Ravens coach built his background as a ST guy and Tomlin even started out as a WR but then went over to the defensive side, however he has turned over the D duties to Dick LeBeau and he is involved with the offense now. So, your statement is false.

jcox31mc - January 5, 2012 reply

ne is run by a defensive minded coach

fyi

kcguy - January 4, 2012 reply

NO, GB, Texans.

NE – no, obviously Hoodie is not an offensive coach.

You did NOT just call SD under Norv a successful team, did you?

Vermeil’s Chiefs were fatally flawed because they lacked defense.

of course the Chargers are "successful"

look at all their Super Bowl victories in the last decade …

oh, wait

Obviously, success is not only measured by SB. Last

year the Chargers had the number 1 Offense in the NFL.
I’m sure not a Chargers fan but until not making the playoffs the last few years, most would have considered them a successful organization. Again, twisting the facts aren’t you? And your Ravens haven’t won in the last decade either.

jcox31mc - January 5, 2012 reply

I think you're searching for justifications for your pre-formed opinion.

I LIKE ROMEO CRENNEL TOO!!!!

I prefer a coach that knows when to let others do their thing

Offensive, defensive, whatever. If they put together the right staff and let them do their jobs, that’s all I care about.

and it certainly seems that Crennel is that type of guy ...

See? I just knew you planned on hiring Crennel all along Ups!

Why didn’t you just come out and tell us when you & Joel made the decision? ;-)

By the way…have you let Pioli know yet?
[sarc-grin]

WorL4Chiefs - January 4, 2012 reply

Scotty will get all relevent information on an as needed basis, as always

as for Mr Thorman and myself, our goal is always to ensure that the Chiefs continue to improve and that our franchise provides the best value for the dollar to better serve the community

no more questions, thank you …

Hire Dr. Lou!

Dr Phil!

Dr. Kevorkian!

Suicidal Coaches ... on the NEXT Geraldo!

Wow...I had no idea that Ups had so much power...

I kinda figured it of Joel
…but … Ups, too?

WorL4Chiefs - January 4, 2012 reply

it took a long time for me to let Joel have a voice in the decision-making process ...

… but it’s in the best interests of the team and the community (angelic smile)

and it's better than letting Chris decide anything that has to do with clothing, have you SEEN that GQ layout? I mean seriously, JJ Bean sells ties THAT narrow, come on man!

Fake FG would be on the ST coach

Not the D.

another 60 million deal for some guy who played 1 game?

no thanks

is pioli exploring the idea of dumping cassel

that would be very amazing

Bleedingredandgold - January 4, 2012 reply

he should

continuing to back MC might cost him his job

No thanks on Philbin.

For one he will be like Haley in that he has a prolific offense for the last few years but no HC experience. If he doesn’t even call the plays on offense what does he do? I guess he just tells the players where to go on the plays? Pretty sure all the coaches and myself could do that once we know the playbook. I want a coach with more seasoning. At this point I want it to be Romeo. He failed in Cleveland but so has every other coach there since they came back in the NFL. He’s showed he is an excellent game planner and the players seem to love playing for him. My only worry is that he never shows much enthusiasm and excitement. It just worries me as far as motivating the players. Then again maybe this is a good thing and finds other ways to motivate.

Brandt34 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

so we want a crazy man waving his hands around like haley or a cool and calm guy like RAC

decisions decisions

i still like snap the fucking ball brodie

haley best in my opinion

Not very open minded.

Joel forgot to add a..............

LadyChief - January 4, 2012 reply

I'd Say It Means They Don't Want Crennel

They know what they’ve got with Crennel…he’s been on staff for two years and worked with Pioli before that. If Pioli thought he was the guy he would have hired him by now instead of kicking the tires on other coaches. And considering that he decided to interview Fisher and Fisher reportedly had “no interest”, I suspect the only way Crennel gets the job is if nobody else ends up wanting to take it either.

Can’t say Pioli is impressing me so far. I suppose if he goes after the Packers OC, it at least gives us hopes of landing Matt Flynn in free agency (if he isn’t franchised).

DO you think we will have to trade a pick of compensation to get who Pioli wants?

is that still allowed?

Trade For A Coach?

Only if he hires a head coach currently under contract to another team. And god, I hope he isn’t that stupid…it was an idiotic move when Peterson did it to get Herm.

Only if you are Carl Peterson and you are wanting to trade for Herm Edwards

I don’t think you have to trade a pick for someone being offered a promotion, but that’s just a guess

If the Rams want to keep McDaniels as OC

and Pioli wanted him bad, as an OC would we be able to trade a pick as a sweetener to lthe Rams to release him?

Seems they was a rule after Gruden’s deal

Yes, I Suspect So

But I doubt they’ll give up much just to get a coordinator. That would be really stupid.

trade bowe to the rams for Llyod and McD?

Lloyd's a FA

and why would you trade Bowe for McDaniels?

what we're not trading players for HCs now?

I can name 20-30 players on the Chiefs roster I'd give away

How about horne for steven jackson?

bullsnockey

you cannot give away half the roster; set you back 15 years

neiowakcfan - January 4, 2012 reply

I'd give away Stanzi :)

I'm sure you would.

neiowakcfan - January 4, 2012 reply

Why Would Anyone Trade Anything For McDaniels?

It’s not like a new offensive coordinator is a guaranteed Super Bowl.

Subthread not worth your time

dammit Satch

I could see Pioli burning a valuable pick on a worthless coach.

I would hate it

to cement his worthless QB in for another coupla years

Nice try

/disengage

;)

If He Does

I’ll want him fired immediately. Paying draft picks for a coach someone else is okay with getting rid of is the height of stupidity.

Why would the Rams fire everybody but him?

To see if the new coach wants to keep him

Because It's The Rams

They’re chronically incompetent.

He has naked pictures of all 32 GMs is the only thing I can think of that keeps McD's name golden while the other Belichick offspring have been outcast by the rest of the league

McHoodie is a cancer ... Lloyd isn't as good as Bowe

’nuff said

Do we really know McDumbass is a "cancer"?

I thought all we knew was that he sucked at personnel decisions

fair enough

but he also sucks at being OC … ept_stl was going thru a litanty of how he completely mangled the Rams offense this year in every conceivable manner (and probably invented a few new ones along the way)

I'm not defending the guy as a coach

At least not beyond the fact that he is apparently well thought of by Hoodie (whom I respect). I’m just saying we’ve built him into something akin to Dr Octopus.

Dude isn’t using his robot minions to destroy cities. He just lost some football games and got fired.

he did that in Denver

He just lost some football games and got fired

he pretty much crippled the Rams … again, first-hand accounts from ept_stl … misuse of personnel, scheme, planning, playcalling, everything up and down the line

So you're saying he should have used robot minions then?

Side note: When did we start thinking STL had fans…let alone that those fans knew anything about football?

ept_stl is a Chiefs fan ... just happens to live in St L ...

therefore he ~~gets to~~ has to watch Rams games (more often than he’d like)

Ah

Now about the robots….

I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that ...

put the crack pipe down

If Pioli wants McDaniels that bad and he's still under contract by the Rams he'll offer him the HC gig to avoid giving the Rams compensation

Be careful what you wish for. I think I’d rather have Philbin as HC if he’ll bring the Packers QB coach to be OC instead of McDaniels

I should research more

Does McCarty run the whole offense or do these two guys program the playbook and McCarty calls the plays?

System Design and Playcalling - McCarthy

System Installation and Gameplan – Regis

Does Cathy Lee help?

When she isn't fetching Frank's pain meds

Who would Design our offense

or would it be templated off of the Packers?

without Aaron Rodgers running it

I would assume egis would assume design

if he’s smart he’d likely hire an C to do his old job. As for playcalling….I frankly think it doesn’t much matter just so long as it’s one guy and he’s good at it. The idea that it’s too much gameday responsibility for the HC is garbage.

I was assuming Romeo was the HC

You would have Philbin or someone else at HC/playcaller

I thought you were asking what Regis' role would be here

please tell me you aren’t one of the guys who thinks he’s coming here as OC

now THAT would be fine with me :-)

I don't want him at all

I want Chud :)

okies with me :-)

I am confused by this entire subthread

ah good, Steve's work here is done ;-)

Whatever I want

Pioli is going to do what he wants, I was just wondering about his ability to pull someone under contract to the Chiefs and what it might cost.

Romeo is the only name I have heard actually tied to the Chiefs I want. Chudzinski is interviewing from the Panthers for the Jaguars I believe. He worked for Romeo before in Cleveland

ut you were asking about who would design the Packers O here in KC...

oh nvm..

Sorry Satch

No need for apologies ;)

I’m the confused one here…not your fault…I’m old and stuff

Never

I hope you are better

real simple lombardie

u see u get a seal here and a seal there and u run up this alley. chalk board style

he traded a pick for vermiel too

kcguy - January 4, 2012 reply

And Yes, It's Still Allowed

But it isn’t necessary unless Pioli hires someone to do a lateral move. Hiring an OC to be a head coach requires no compensation because it’s a promotion.

Philbin doesn't seem to be HC material

and is in name an OC so what is the deal with that?

No Clue

I was just looking for something positive to say. In reality, I don’t have much of an opinion on Philbin.

You know what

At the time, Sean Payton left Dallas to go HC the Saints, I didn’t think he was HC material either…

HAHAHAHAA…

So I’m done with that… I can only view if the OC or coach will be a great fit for the CHIEFS..

Oh, And

I’m glad that Fisher wasn’t interested. He’s the most overrated coach on the market and history shows that coaches who get to play GM as well generally do a bad job at both. Let the Dolphins or Rams be stupid enough to hire him and give him total control to run their team into the ground.

Speaking of the Dolphins, by the way, anyone else notice that old Carl Peterson is playing more of his power games trying to get another GM job?

king-maker

Peterson is doing what he does so well, he should have gone into politics

oh god no. I rather not have the US controlled by a guy who drafts or recruit horrible people

Percy Snow, Tim Grunhard, Dale Carter, Will Shields, Derrick Thomas, Neil Smith, TonyG ...

yeah, horrible people … all of ’em

herm edwards. enough said

Herm is a great guy

Being a bad coach does not make him a bad person

I didn't say anything about him personally. Just that if Carl Peterson was president

and herm edwards was the secretary of war…

"by a guy who drafts or recruit horrible people"

Not too bad

Don’t forget our talented young core came from Carl

SC Chief - January 4, 2012 via Android app reply

Matt Blundin. Steve Stenstrom, Mike Elkins, Ryan Sims

Traded down so he could select Larry Johnson instead of Troy Polamalu. Traded Jared Allen away because he didn’t want to pay him what he was worth. And remember how he thought Brady Quinn was the best QB prospect he’d ever seen?

Had a few good drafts, but the man was more great bullshit artist than great GM.

I AGREE with UC to some extent

He was a legit GM but when the FA market started booming, he and the entire player personnel crew got complacent and started to buy FA cuz they were to friggin lazy to do their real jobs

Lot Of Bad Contracts Too

Handed Johnson and Holmes superstar contracts AFTER their best years. Paid Kendrell Bell a huge contract to play in a system for which he wasn’t suited after he had a serious injury. The whole Dan Williams and Tony Casillas fiascoes. Andre Rison, Derrick Alexander…Bam Morris.

Don't leave out Chester McGlockton

may he RIP

I Actually Don't Blame Him For McGlockton

McGlockton was a reasonable signing…he was young, coming off great seasons, fit a need. That one just didn’t work out. Actually, it turned out later that it might have worked out except Marty fucked up by rushing him back into action when he was recovering from surgery. That was on Marty…in a season where he made a lot of poor choices, I felt.

yeah marty also failed to teach mcglockton not to jump off sides

speaking of Bad contracts

Lets not forget the ONES he let slip away

JOE HORN
DONNIE EDWARDS
RICH GANNON

Ugh...Donnie

That one still hurts.

but Marty was happy when he got to the Chargers

But That's Okay

We got him back after his good years.

OK, now its not even funny :(

Neil MSith...Saleamua....Albert Lewis

In all fairness tho, Joe Horn prolly needed to get out of town following the Bam Morris/Vanover fiasco

Albert Lewis and Neil Smith

arrrrrgrghhhhhhhh…Carl Peterson …you bastard..I remember now why I cussss at you so much back then

Albefrt Lewis was drafted in 83 ... long before King Carl arrived

It's the leaving we cus

not the drafting

gotcha

He Was Talking About When Lewis Left

I don’t fault Peterson for that. Lewis just hated playing in KC.

I Don't Fault Him For Lewis

Lewis was bitching about being in KC pretty much from the moment he got here. The only reason he was around as long as he was was because there wasn’t free agency. And Saleamua was done by the time he left. Credit to Peterson for finding him in Plan B free agency.

Letting Neil Smith Go Was Idiotic

That irked me.

I am happy for Neil though

and Kawika and Fujita and Keyaron

they all got a ring!

Fujita

FUCK!

FUCK FUCK FUCK

Don't piss him off or he'll launch your ass.

But those were just as painful as Donnie

Donnie – SD
Neil – DEN
Albert – OAK

….ARRRRRGHHHHHH

I don't care

I loved those guys.

And T-Rich….WHY CARL WHY??

big sal was driving a dump truck when the chiefs signed him

the lions kept jerry ball over big dan

they cut donnie edwards way before his prime

Ryan Sims / Trezelle Jenkins / Junior Savii

That was the fall of Mr. Peterson

Savii though not a 1st round pick, it was their first pick that year….BOMB!

staying with an old and older group of players during the Herm years was his downfall ...

huge mistake, he should have begun the rebuild as soon as Herm walked in the door

In a way I was trying to point out

his fall became rapid as he had consecutive f**k ups with the 1st round picks, the more he screwed up the draft picks, the more he relied heavier on FA…

the more he relied heavier on FA…

And when you consistently mess up the draft AND FA….you’re pretty much done.

Lamar was in failing health for several years before he passed

CP tried desperately to piece together a SB squad before the end which lead to a bunch of questionable decisions that strayed from the core philosophy.

Wrong moves…right reasons.

by the time he realized the HOLE he dug, it was too late

very true, Satch ... a noble ambition, just horribly done

If only he'd have gotten a real DC instead of Robinson, they might've had another SB ring before Lamar died.

Wow…reading this thread & seeing all the player names of days gone by (great ones that got away & CP screw-ups)…makes me sad & angry all over again.

nostalgia road…

WorL4Chiefs - January 4, 2012 reply

Nostalgia Road ... would be a great name for a rock band

Herm's downfall

was a lack of quality game planning and discipline along with an ill-advised commitment to ineffective players. Remember Damon Huard getting us to the playoffs in Herm’s first season and not even sniffing the field once Trent Green was “healthy” and just awful in a close game against the Colts in the playoffs? Yeah, I do

RememberDelaney37 - January 4, 2012 via mobile reply

And He Never Should Have Hired Herm

One of the most inept head coaches I’ve ever seen. He ruined Larry Johnson AND Curtis Martin.

If Herm was never on board for the those 3 years

I doubt we have guys such as this list on the roster today:

Hali
JC
DJ
2 Brandons
B. Albert

Yes, what a great head coach he was.

i'm just sayin - don't hate brotha!

CP relinquish the old philosophy of buying players after Herm’s year 1, Herm sold CP to build from the draft.. that is why you see solid players from the 2007 2008 drafts

no where in this I’m trying to say HOW Herm was a great HC

What?

It’s not like CP was skipping draft picks before Herm got here. He was in charge of drafts before and during Herm’s time in town. Herm just sold Clark on playing rookies and losing in the short term for a promised long term benefit which may or may not have ever happened had Herm stayed.

correct, which is what Pioli did and everyone thinks he's FABULOUS for it

Herm just sold Clark on playing rookies and losing in the short term for a promised long term benefit

Not sure that's true

There is a difference between not spending on FAs and building thru the draft(Pioli) and using all of your draft picks as starters. (Herm)

true, but the point is that the team dearly needed to be rebuilt ... needed a youth movement

anything but getting MORE over the hill FA’s

Your point was that they had the same philosophy

That’s just simply not true. Herm wanted to play all his rookies and hope the developed into a good team. The first thing Pioli wanted to do when he got here was bring in more vets….

Thats what Ups was saying

Herm didn’t have much to spend for FA ..thus played his rookies since there were gonna develop and build from the draft..CP blew away a shit load of bad contracts…not that he wouldn’t have played veterans

Herm Didn't Have Anything To Spend For Free Agents

He was the head coach, not the GM…thus he had no player budget. :)

We were capped out at the time tho...

Due Largely To Bell's And Holmes' Contracts

Thank you, Carl Peterson.

Priest earned that money

But we had a shitload of bad contracts

Shawn F***king Merriman

Damn…if Priest had been healthy and played out his contract…LJ would have been expandable before his true self showed up

He Was 31

It was unreasonable to expect him to produce at anywhere near that level after his new deal. Especially considering his injury history.

No, He Didn't

NFL contracts are based on what a player is projected to produce over the life of the contract, not what he produced in the past. Holmes was 31 and injury-prone…Peterson never should have paid him.

And I liked Priest Holmes.

You take that back

Take Back That I Liked Holmes?

Never :)

We paid Priest less than a mil/season

for 4 years. 3 Of which were MVP quality. That huge extension he got never paid him more than 6.5 in a year. His contract didn’t break the bank and frankly, we owed it to him (imo)

Doesn't Matter

The NFL isn’t about rewarding your sentimental favorites…it’s about building teams to win. The Priest Holmes deal worked against that. The gratitude of one player is not more important than the team.

Who knew Merriman would end Priest's career just like that?

Exceptions to that rule exist

I’d argue that when you pay a guy:

448K for 2169 yards then
750K for 2287 yards and 24 TDs then
550K for 2110 yards and 27 TDs

A little make up money is in order

There Are No Makeups In Football

If a player is underpaid, that’s what’s known as a bargain. You don’t hand him a stupid contract to make up for it.

Damn UC

You’re one helluva shrewd negotiator

:)

It's All About The Team

I do like Priest and wish him well…he was an amazing player. But he isn’t the first player who ever got underpaid and he won’t be the last. That’s just the NFL.

The iterated prisoner's dilemna.

Constant cutthroat doesn’t pay off in the long run.

Nothing Cutthroat About It

It’s a contract negotiation. You’re paying for an expectation of performance…if somebody gives you a great deal and charges you less than their perceived market value, that’s good for you. You don’t make up for it by giving them a deal that’s horrible for you. Most players understand that’s how it works in the NFL.

Wasn't the LJ pick for insurance

And was to help leverage the contract talks with Priest?

If So

It was a stupid move. We got two good seasons out of Johnson and way more off-field idiocy than he was worth.

No one knew then UC

We had a really good O-Line (Old Line), it was primed for RB. If CP hadn’t paid Priest and never drafted LJ…who would it be ?

Troy Polamalu

That’s who got drafted with the pick the Chiefs traded down from.

Enough talk about Troy.

If we had drafted Troy, who knew CP would have let him walk to after his rookie contract expires. But I was asking who would have been our RB if its not #31 or #27

Someone

Running backs are one of the easiest positions to replace.

And you think Peterson would have been stupid enough to let Polamalu walk because Greg Wesley was so much better? Please. CP still wouldn’t have drafted Polamalu, though…he didn’t draft USC players.

That because he prefers the crosstown rival

ala….Donnie Edwards, Jarrad Page

No Kidding

If you go through his draft record, you’ll find he had a very odd record when it came to USC players though. As I recall he drafted exactly two in 20 years. Larry Parker and someone else whose name escapes me. Although he did sign Marcus Allen, but I think that was more to spite Al Davis.

Peterson was a UCLA guy and I think he really had something against USC players.

Medlock

Crosby

I wonder if Medlock or Carl have seen his Super Bowl ring?

HowSweetItIs - January 4, 2012 reply

Medlock Was UCLA

I can’t remember who the other USC guy he drafted was.

do u realize that if the redskins would of given us a third round pick instead of the 4th they offered kc that jamal charles would be playing for the skins

haley and pioli were going to make the deal

Probably

Haley was stupid enough to be okay with that. He had some kind of bug up his ass about Charles.

yeah it was actually peterson who drafted charles

Yup.

Vermeil and CP went on a spending SPREE, we’re like CAPPED out almost every year

my point being ... it was the right thing to do, but should have been done earlier :-)

I think the only player on that list that Herm was responsible for recomending was Brandon Carr

And Maybe Flowers

Herm knew defensive backs…he knew fuck-all about coaching any other position on the field. And I give him zero credit for drafting players, since that wasn’t his job.

I'm sure Herm gave Carl the thumbs up on flowers, but even I knew they needed a CB in that draft and Flowers was considered a borderline rd 1 prospect that slipped to rd 2

i can’t say that was a real find, even I was telling the TV screen to draft Flowers.

Oh c'mon

Herm was very high on Tamba… go rewind the post draft interviews

And He Got Horrible Performance Out Of Him By Year Three

Who cares if Herm said nice things about Hali post-draft? Of course he said nice things about him post-draft. He said nice things about Brodie Croyle too…because Herm said nice things about everyone.

Every coach we have ever had has been high on every player we have ever drafted

in post draft interviews

go figure, huh!

The Only Coach I Can Remember Who Trashed His First Round Pick

Was Bill Parcells with Terry Glenn.

Michael Jordan did it with Kwame Brown too in the NBA, but that was different because it’s basketball and because Jordan is one of the most incompetent managers of people in sports history.

Which is worse? Jordan at GMing

or Newman at Risk

Jordan

I was surprised to hear when I went to Vegas that Jordan is one of the celebrities most despised by dealers. Apparently he’s a world-class asshole.

This does not surprise me at all

He Likes To Brag About How He Doesn't Tip To Them

But he makes up for it by being an absolute shit to them.

It Shouldn't Have Surprised Me I Guess

Not after his HOF speech. I think I’m actually kind of hoping he goes broke some day.

Would be funny if he and LJ both wound up

caddying for tips

Have You Seen Jordan Lately

I don’t think he’s a physical labor guy anymore. :)

vermiel was pretty pissed that we drafted lj

and called him out in public saying it was time to take the diapers off

kcguy - January 4, 2012 reply

He Was Right

Johnson was such a piece of crap. I thought we should have let him sit out in 2007 instead of paying him. What the hell else was he going to do?

Derrick Johnson Was In KC Before Herm

Branden Albert is a mediocre left tackle who is still under his rookie contract, so where the hell else was he going to go?

Is having an elite LT like having an elite QB?

only 5 teams have one at any one time

mediocre is such a harsh word

Yet True, Nonetheless

Sorry, but he was utterly unimpressive this year.

You're the one who kept him out of the Pro Bowl.

He has a nasty tweet for you.

Did He Bitch On Twitter?

If so, he shouldn’t have. Nobody on that line has any reason to bitch about a PB snub.

As bad as the Herm hire was

Gunther was worse. Everyone around the team knew Gunny wasn’t going to be a good HC. His hiring was a huge WTF moment.

^^ DING DING DING!

Crash Gansz!

Don't get me started on that one

yeah i agree ups but i think carl was trying to make one more run for the late lamar hunt

If Only His Games Paid Off

20 years and not even one Super Bowl appearance?

They’re actually running two head coaching searches right now…one led by Peterson, the other run by their actual GM. Talk about dysfunction.

He ran into a Jack Steadman created monster in Marv Levy

sucks

It Was More Than That

Every single one of Peterson’s good teams had an easily identifiable fatal flaw that was evident well before the playoffs. The man was a great salesman, but he never gave you product to match the pitch.

well, they were designed to GET TO the playoffs ... under Marty that happened 7 of 9 years ... damned good track record there

and getting TO the dance is more than half the battle … after that, getting THE dance with The Prom King (or Queen) is another story, but getting to the playoffs is always the first step

True, But

For being around 20 years, he should have had more success. Or been fired about ten years earlier.

at least he wasn't around as long as Steadman

montana taken the chiefs the furtheist in the playoffs

18 years ago.

Atomic Punx - January 4, 2012 reply

steve don't get me started marv had the chiefs going in the right direction, until they canned him for who

john mackovic

Who then took us to the playoffs and we canned him for

Frank Fucking Gansz

What the hell was going on back then? I wasn't following football yet.

Nick "the" Kick

They Fired John Mackovic After The Chiefs First Playoff Season In 15 Years

Because the players liked Frank Ganz better. He was horrific. Nick Lowery led the players revolt.

In fairness, Mackovic was an ass…that wasn’t the only player revolt in his time coaching. Had one or two in college.

yup, since that time

that wasn’t the only player revolt in his time coaching. Had one or two in college

Told One Of His Players At Arizona

That he was a disgrace to his family, in front of the locker room. The players went to the university administration to demand they force him to apologize.

Did he tutor Mangino?

Possibly

Nobody seems to be in a rush to hire him either.

It's too bad that those Johnson County

kids couldn’t get yelled at. And their parents who donate $ to KU had to put a word in about Mangino’s dismissal.

Atomic Punx - January 4, 2012 reply

I Think He Had To Go

Less because the players didn’t like him than that he kept driving good assistants away and his recruiting slipped. His defensive line was abysmal.

When KU first started showing signs of success, I remember telling a buddy that it was because Mangino's players were scared to death of him.

/smug

He Was A Good Coach In A Lot Of Regards

But his temper just turned him into a world-class asshole so often that eventually it ended him. There’s got to be a carrot sometime…it can’t all be stick.

you're still so young

Mackovic was an arrogant bastard who made Haley (on his worst day) look like a Sunday School Angel … aloof and arrogant to the Nth Degree

end of the season after the Chiefs lost to the Jets in the playoffs (round 1) the players had a meeting and pretty much held a gun to Lamar’s head saying they hated Mackovic and wanted Gansz as HC instead

Damn, must have been interesting times.

I didn’t start following football till after I left the house.

Steadman did all that

and then we got his understudy CP to do a bit more of that?

Don’t the GODS think its time we deserve a shot back at the PRIZE????

c’mon man!!!

King Carl had no affiliation with Steadman or the Chiefs until he was hired by Lamar

Steadman had long since been replaces as GM in mid-70’s

Levy built a good team then a strike year went wrong and we canned him

Mackovic took over and was hated by the media and players despite winning. Tickets weren’t selling despite the playoff appearance so we canned him for Gansz who the media loved.

The whole player revolt legend is waaaaay over played.

should of never canned marv, had the team going in the right direction

joe delaney rip

OK, I vaguely remember that strike.

That’s about when I first started getting interested in the Chiefs.

Guess that’s what happens when the media gets to pick a coach.

and levy was canned, at least in part, by coming out publicly on the side of the players during the strike

not that that was the OFFICIAL reason, of course

No, It Wasn't

Part of the reason the players liked Ganz so much was that he told them all these great stories about his time in Vietnam…until it turned out the stories were all made up. :)

Pathological liar with a 4-11 record? Oh yeah, the players really screwed up.

That Said

Mackovic needed to be fired. And Gansz’ horrible year in charge did get us Marty.

yeah when the browns canned marty

Damn, sounds like I should have started following the Chiefs sooner.

The Eighties must have been pure lulz.

Fucking frustrating

So much talent on D…ridiculously managed and hamstrung by incompetent O.

I didn't watch Blackledge, but my dad told me about it.

His favorite QB around then was Kenney.

Keney's only redeeming quality was that

he wasn’t Blackledge. If you think Cassel has happy feet…..wow…Kenney

Yeah, Dad doesn't think he was good, just liked watching "Wild Bill."

Mention Steve Fuller if you want to see him die a little inside

Naw, we've been good friends since I moved out/he kicked me out.

I hope we are not due for a replay of the 80's

This Chiefs D is stacked if we add some depth and Carr IMO

I agree, though I wish we were a bit stouter up the middle

we have that “bend but don’t break” thing still, too much of it, I think … I far prefer the “stop ’em cold” brutes up front of a traditional 4-3, but with it being a pass-happy league one does need more in the way of faster LBs and faster Secondary

I'm not saying they didn't like him (They did)

I’m not even saying they didn’t lobby for him as coach (they did).

I’m saying it’s not why Mackodick got fired. He got fired because nobody liked him and the stadium was empty.

I Fully Endorse That Nickname

I had never actually heard that before. Odd, because it seems like it should have been obvious.

I sure agree. This sounds more positive than anything else I've heard.

water boarding pioli is the only way u will get him to answer your questions

even that might not work, but i think it will