Last week the Kansas City Chiefs new offensive coordinator, Brian Daboll, spoke to the KC media for the first time and described what he envisions the Chiefs offense looking like next season. He used the word attack, talked about different formations, no-huddle, play-action and all that good stuff. Read all about that here.
The man who hired Daboll, Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel, talked with the KC media on a Wednesday conference call about some of the differences and similarities with the Chiefs offense last year and moving forward under Daboll.
"I think some of it will be the same, but I think Brian will add his touch to it," Crennel said. "He's already said that he wants to attack a little bit more, so I think that probably in his game plan he's going to devise ways to try to get the ball down the field maybe a little bit more often than we did last year."
Hmm...downfield? That's not really one of Cassel's strengths.
"I think Matt has a good enough arm that he can throw the deep ball," Crennel said in response to a question from Adam Teicher of the KC Star. "Now, this is not saying that every ball is going to be a deep ball. You can go down the field and not be a 50-yard pass every time. If it's a 25-yard pass, that's not a bad gain offensively."
Let's not look too deep into Crennel's words. The Chiefs are going to stick to Cassel's strengths and the deep ball is not one of them. That's really one of my question marks about the Chiefs and how GM Scott Pioli built them.
The Chiefs have invested a lot into the receivers -- Dwayne Bowe could get a big deal this offseason, Steve Breaston got 20-plus million last offseason and Jonathan Baldwin was a first round pick. The Chiefs have so much invested in that position and one of the quarterback's weaknesses is going deep. Fundamentally -- as in the makeup of the team -- that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. All other things being equal, this is why I can see the Kyle Orton over Cassel argument.
But, like I was saying before I got side-tracked (happens easily), let's not judge the Chiefs 2012 offense from a few quotes in February. Lots will change between now and then including the Chiefs offense.
0 recs | 179 comments
Where is the peyton manning connection at QB
after the chiefs sign jim bob cooter. former Tenesse and Indy coach….
MDChiefs - February 16, 2012
we have to bring in Manning
to lead us to the super bowl and more importantly, mentor Stanzi.
Chiefsdodgerslakers2415 - February 16, 2012
If Daboll wants to get the ball downfield and attack more
He will probably (or at least should) push management to get Orton signed. Orton has a good arm and a way better deep ball than Cassel. Cassel severely limits the offense’s ability to get the ball downfield.
7chiefs7 - February 16, 2012
Yes,
I just don’t see it with Cassel.
Orton will have a lot of suiters, so if they haven’t got him signed by FA we will lose him.
KC is in a hard spot with cassel,
Manning is a crap shoot of the worse kind, we do not know if he even has a game left in him.
Flynn, is slightly better crap shoot but the guy has not played enough to truely know of his potential
RGIII is going to either Cleveland or Washington, I if I were a betting man I would say Cleveland. Rams particlar sitution requres them to take the best LT in draft, so they can’t let that guy slip away.. Kalil they need
Beyond that, and depending on situtions.. the QB sitution is pretty grim.. If Manning goes some place, someone like Kobe or Sanchez might come available, if Manning went to Miami, it might be possible to trade Cassel for Matt More, or some how get him for competition.
They should offer Orton, a 3 year contract with 22 million Guaranteed.. Say 35 million total. trade Cassel, and either try and find a diamond in the rough in the late rounds of the draft, or pick up a veteran. Get that off the table and move on to the draft.
Luck will not be available after Indy takes him
Bigcherokeechief - February 16, 2012
Agreed. And part of the issue with resigning Bowe is...
he’s put up his pro bowl numbers working with run of the mill QB’s. Bowe has to be asking himself "what kind of career can I have with a Drew Brees or Tom Brady throwing the ball. Signing Orton or someone with the ability to throw deep would not only help capitalize on the investment we’ve made at WR, it would help stoke the home fires higher in Bowe’s eyes too.
If Bowe is looking to greener pastures, I would remind him one of the reasons he has those numbers here is we throw to him a lot more (out of need) than most other teams will. Also, it’s important for him to remember how well he has learned to manage his relationships to fans and the community while excelling on the field. If he leaves for “Bowe the Saviour of OUR Team” money elsewhere… the expectations will be much greater and there’s a whole new set of media relationships and rules, etc to learn.
Staying in KC is best for Bowe as well as this team.
CurtMerzFan - February 16, 2012
well
our offense also stinks so badly, that it is basically three-and-outs. In theory, a better offense would mean even more touches for Bowe….however, with Charles and Moeaki back, and year two for Breaston and Baldwin……
chief Stevie_k - February 18, 2012
That would be DRASTICALLY Overpaying Orton
Orton is worth 7 Million a year tops, as a middle of the road starting QB. I wouldn’t waste it on him, but would go after an improvement on Cassel, not a lateral move.
dablueguy - February 17, 2012
There's a problem with the "attack down field" philosophy.
Watching the playoffs, and a few other games with deep-threat QBs, I saw one common denominator. The deep ball isn’t a major part of their game plan. 1 in about 5 passes goes down field. In addition, the problem with down-field passing is that even with the best QBs it’s not a high percentage play. It’s more like “shock and aw.” Teams that score fast, tend to give up point fast as well. If you hit on every long pass, you’ll do real good. But if you miss a few, you may find yourself punting just as much as the other guys – which is what I saw in the playoffs.
David Winton - February 16, 2012
well the key here is that theyve already established that they can and will take those shots so the defense will play to keep everything in front of them
By establishing that over the course of the season they forced the defense to respect so now heading into the playoffs youve opened up other areas in which to attack if you have a TE or back that can catch out of the backfield as well as certain back shoulder throws etc .
The good offenses in this league expect the defense to counter its first and second moves over the course of the season and they plan accordingly .
Its why a team like teh pack can go from Nelson to driver ,Finley depending on what you do
The Saints go from Colston to Graham to Sproles to the running backs etc .
Its what allows the Niners to shred those same saints in he playoffs because they showed one thing and then the Niners countered with Davis or a Smith bootleg .
Thats the nature of the NFL these days how many moves ahead have you planned
We saw that against the Packers in Ortons first start as the entire field was in play and we seemed to have an answer for whatever coverage the Packers ran .
Willie Beamon - February 16, 2012
When you say "down field," how far do you mean?
20% of passes going 20 yards or more down the field is actually a pretty high percentage. Plus, you don’t know how many of those plays had a deep route as the number 1 option and checked down to a short route that was open because the secondary’s first priority was covering the deep route.
I am tired of seeing our Charles and McClusters and Breastons getting killed on 10-yard routes because the Dbacks know they don’t need to worry about anything past that.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
We're talking about throws that Cassel doesn't normally make, or
throws he can’t make – like 35 -40 yards in the air.
David Winton - March 2, 2012
KC Offense Not built to go deep!
Out of all the WR name 1 that has the speed to go down field. OK maybe J Bald 40yrd at 4.3, Steve Breaston 4.5 at best…D-Bowe clocked 4.4 at best heck DMC is 4.4… KC is not the fastest WR;’s team to go deep…. More like best mid level passing. Where Cassel is good at and play action Cassel is one of the best. Well when he has time to do play action like in 2010…..
AngryKitty - February 16, 2012
If the line can protect Cassel can throw the lob deep to athletic receivers
ChiefRocka - February 16, 2012
yeah,
After the catches we’ve seen from bowe and baldwin, cassel just needs to put it up there and they’ll get it
antirl - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Bowe drops a lot.
chai1836 - February 16, 2012
only the easy ones
those deep lobs tend to be circuis catches … bowe’s specialty.
cheapham - February 16, 2012 via Android app
A lot of receivers drop deep passes when there's coverage there.
It’s not a high percentage pass.
polodude017 - February 16, 2012
To be honest, I'm a little tired of the
argument. When targeted as much as he was, he doesn’t drop as much as one thinks he does. I don’t have access to PFF’s numbers but he does have 356 receptions for just under 5000 yards over his career (with 13.8 ypr). I’ll take that.
Eastcoastransplant - February 16, 2012
And considering until this year he really was the only receiver we had
So was ALWAYS double teamed…
Eastcoastransplant - February 16, 2012
Sub 4.4 speed is not necessary for the deep ball.
Well designed plays and series that can get the safeties to cheat towards the line of scrimmage leave the back open for receiver with normal speed. Play action passing, especially on a short yardage play or after a few runs in a row, will be just as or more effective.
nateforchiefs - February 16, 2012
but you lull the defense to sleep with the short and underneath routes again and again befroe you "go deep"
besides, going deep isn’t “ball control” offense, and that helps us more than “going deep” for some quick strike … the less our defense is on the field the better they play
upamtn - February 16, 2012
Exactly. Keep our ToP in the mid 30's
Keep our defense fresh, theirs tired, and then ramp it up in the 4th quarter with some no huddle.
nateforchiefs - February 16, 2012
Agreed.
Personally I think the OP here really overestimates the “times” these guys would run in the 40. But like you said, that’s almost irrelevant. Baldwin and Bowe clearly have downfield ability. It’s on the OC to make those calls and Cassel to do a better job of placing the ball (like he did to Baldwin in the SD game).
polodude017 - February 16, 2012
Alittle off on 40 times
Bowe runs in the mid 4.5 range, Baldwin runs right at 4.5, and Breaston runs in the mid 4.4 range. At not burners but certainly fast enough to get down the field.
Rollo80 - February 16, 2012
agreed
saying that a 4.5 40 isnt fast is being little ridiculous. Thats fast enough. Everything.else is about awareness and body control.
Rupert Daniels - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Disagree
-As has been mentioned, you don’t need blinding speed at WR to go deep.
-Cassel is not good at even mid-level passing. He’s average at best at that range.
-Cassel is not all that great at play action. Orton is tons better. His fake is beautiful.
-Cassel didn’t have any more time in 2010 to do play action. The line played on a comparable level. We just faced shittier defenses and had JC in 2010.
If they want to develop the mid-to-deep passing game they must get Orton. Cassel will not get it done. I’d love to see some stats of his “deep passes”.
I’m betting most all are due to YAC from the WR. The ones where he actually does throw it farther than 15 yards in the air are usually ducks that the receiver has to come back for and dive to catch, rather than hitting him in stride. I remember several catches that would have been TD’s if he could hit the guy in stride.
TheScootness - February 16, 2012
Orton
To me that was the most apparent difference between him and Cassel. Orton can sell a fake like no other.
joplin chiefs fan - February 16, 2012
He got me several times in those last games
I always thought Cassel was decent at play-action… until those games with Orton – it was a considerable difference.
Ochophosphate - February 16, 2012
Lets keep both QBs.
We’ll let Orton get us to the red zone and once there Cassel can take over.
nateforchiefs - February 16, 2012
Because we scored SOOO many TDs when Cassel was starting last year
I understand your point. Orton sucks in the redzone, probably even more than Cassel, but that’s not saying much.
joplin chiefs fan - February 16, 2012
My question is what happened to the Bowe jump ball?
That’s how Cassel always used to score TD’s. Very simple, just toss it up and let Bowe get it. Not sure how that fell out of the playbook.
Re-sign Bowe and have Orton chuck it 12 ft in the air. Problem solved.
TheScootness - February 16, 2012
I thought we were going to see a lot more of those type plays
after the Baldwin pick. Instead they disappeared.
joplin chiefs fan - February 16, 2012
That pass requires touch, timing, and familiarity with the receiver
Orton didn’t really have time to perfect that play
PVChiefsfan - February 16, 2012
Can you show me where I said that?
Will the Chiefs have a better chance to win games if they upgrade the QB position? Yes
Will their chances improve if they upgrade QB at the expense of trading away several other picks? I don’t know…that is why other people get paid millions to run the Chiefs…
With a more complete team than we had in December of 2010 can we win a playoff game with Cassel? I think so
He’s not the best, he’s jot the worst, he may get better, but nowhere did I imply that 2012 was another year to prove himself. If there is a QB on the roster that gives us a better chance to win than Cassel then Cassel will not be the starter. If there isn’t, Cassel will be the starter
PVChiefsfan - February 16, 2012
Cassel scored 27 TDs in 2010.
And I was being completely sarcastic with my above comment.
nateforchiefs - February 16, 2012
Orton's Red Zone
Scoring was more about him not being on the same page as our WR’s… hell i never really saw Cassel throw a back shoulder pass, even in 2010 it was more of a jump ball rather than back shoulder…
BlackDoom - February 16, 2012
Definitely
I went to the GB game so I didn’t catch much from the stands but when I got home and re-watched the game on the DVR that was the first thing that stood out to me. Wow.
TheScootness - February 16, 2012
I agree with you on most points.
But I would say the line was better last year. Richardson and Lilja were definitely better.
polodude017 - February 16, 2012
I agree with everything you wrote except
I think the play action pass is one of the strongest parts of Cassel’s game. Now Orton also excels at play action passing and, as a better passer, I certainly give him the edge over Cassel when it comes to actually delivering the ball to the receiver post-fake. But I’ve seen Cassel make some absolutely impeccable fakes during his time here, particularly in 2010.
If I were to create a list of the things I think Matt Cassel needs to work on in his game, play action passing would be no where near the top of the list.
MtHammer - February 16, 2012
Yes
Cassel is good at the fake. Better than some QB’s that look like they don’t even try. But Orton is outstanding. Watch a couple of Cassel’s games from this year (or 2010, whatever) and then watch the last 3 games with Orton. World of difference in my eyes.
TheScootness - February 16, 2012
does it really matter??
why be good Play-action when you can’t throw the ball deep??
BlackDoom - February 16, 2012
I like Orton too...
If you listen to ortons postgame after the broncos game it doesnt seem like he wants to come back, he refers to the chiefs as “cassels team”
Rupert Daniels - February 16, 2012 via mobile
AK, 4.4 is fast. 4.5 is fast.
I mean really fast. Welker/Jackson/Marshall aren’t any faster. Plus our guys have size. I’ll take our receiving core (plus Tony G back where he belongs) against any other team any day. Hell, I will take our whole team, +/- a position or two, against any other team any day.
Damn I love the Chiefs.
Pacific Chief - February 16, 2012
If they sign Bowe...
They will have two big receivers that can go up and get the lazy fly ball (if they choose to)
ChiefRocka - February 16, 2012
Could be a sign that Orton is in serious consideration.
One of his strengths is the deep ball.
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
BTW, I love Mitch Holthus
but man he just didn’t want to say a bad thing about Cassel on the radio last night. Come on! Look, I love Cassel as a person, his work ethic, etc. But good grief the guy has been the epitome of inconsistency. He was downright abysmal in the game against the Ravens in the wild card round in 2010 (not to mention the Raiders too).
All I remember about the games he played in this season, except maybe the SD game on Monday night, was that he just couldn’t do ANYTHING. It was pathetic. Embarrassing even. Do they really think he’s going to change?
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
Holthus isn't getting paid to express his personal opinions
he gets paid to “talk the talk” using the company line
upamtn - February 16, 2012
Meh, I don't see that.
I think he’s got a close personal relationship with Cassel and doesn’t want to hurt his friend.
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
yes man
LadyChief - February 16, 2012
I keep saying that Matt Cassel can make the throws he needs to.
Scott Pioli thinks so. Todd Haley thought so. Charlie Weis thought so. Now, we have Romeo Crennel on record saying he thinks so. Drone on oh Matt Cassel detractors. At some point, you will have to realize the truth.
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
Did he make them last year?
When he had to?
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
What about against the Ravens?
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
How about that screen pass in San Diego?
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
OMG he threw an INT on a blown screen pass cut him now
Brady threw 4 INTs in the playoffs, obviously the PATs should cut him
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
He threw it to a defender who was being blocked.
Brady threw for 5000 + yards and completed 65% of his passes. Get off it.
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
Ya it wasn't a phenomenal play by the defender or anything
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
No, he lobbed it right to him.
It was pathetic. Then he had the famous hat incompletion to his head.
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
In his defense
His head has pretty bad hands
Ochophosphate - February 16, 2012
I dunno
He does a pretty good facepalm
Halfbreed - February 16, 2012
I love that image!!!
It was a crappy game, he goes to put on his hat and it falls off behind him and he doesn’t even react. I could just hear, “I don’t even care anymore.” running through his head.
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
That int lost us the game too. At the most critical time, he throws the ugliest pick
Rupert Daniels - February 16, 2012 via mobile
No cut him now,
Because he can’t see past the primary reciever, he can’t take pressure and stay calm, He’s the check down ,and 3 & out king. I still can’t believe Cassel gets this love. WTF am I missing here ?
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
The actual game film
There’s too much hyperbole covering your TV screen
PVChiefsfan - February 16, 2012
People say he has a weak arm, but he can still throw it 50 yards.
the problem IMO is his deep ball accuracy. It can be erratic
nateforchiefs - February 16, 2012
This.
Matt can make the throws. Doing it accurately and consistently is his problem.
Tomahawk29 - February 16, 2012
his deep ball looks like Chad Pennington on his worst day
Rupert Daniels - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Can I say this without sounding hateful .
SHUT UP. I realize the truth Cassel sucks
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
Too bad that
NOBODY in the Chiefs organization agrees with you.
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
Aiken, seriously
Are they going to say it publicly even if they do?
What coach in this universe goes out publicly and says anything other than “we have confidence in the guys we have under contract”?
Well I’ll tell you – none of them. Ever.
Ochophosphate - February 16, 2012
I know what you are saying
but why even make that statement at this time? We have an entire off season to go and many things could change between now and the start of the season. Why indicate that you are putting your eggs in the Cassel basket if you don’t think that’s what you are really going to do?
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
He was ASKED about Cassel specifically.
He didn’t just start talking about him out of the blue.
Tarkus - February 16, 2012
The possibility that they can't make an upgrade
as much as that would disappoint many here.
Orton may get lured by a team offering more money.
We may not (probably should not) go after any other FA on the market.
We likely won’t draft someone high enough to be considered worthy as a replacement.
Which leaves us back with Cassel, Stanzi and “yet to be named QB 3”.
If that’s the case, the likelihood of Cassel remaining the starter in 2011 is high.
In the end, you hedge your bets by maintaining a positive outlook on a player that could still be your starter in 2012. To me, it didn’t sound like he was putting his eggs in the Cassel basket – he was just asked specifically about him and responded accordingly. I don’t see much of an alternative.
Ochophosphate - February 16, 2012
Maybe
but there is a good bit of time before that decision has to be made. Asked directly or not, this was an indicator of what Romeo thinks about Cassel. You can totally discount it if you want to, but if you say that Romeo was bald faced lying, then what exactly will he tell the truth about? Just the things you agree with versus the ones you don’t?
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
I don't think he was lying
It’s not like he spent 5 minutes gushing over Cassel – he said about 4 sentences total and only 1 directly related to Cassel, and it was a pretty generic statement anyway. The other 3 sentences were generic regarding offense and “the deep ball”.
You could insert any QBs name around the league and have that come out of any coach’s mouth and it would make little difference.
“I think ________ has a good enough arm that he can throw the deep ball,” _____said in response to a question from a reporter from the local paper. “Now, this is not saying that every ball is going to be a deep ball. You can go down the field and not be a 50-yard pass every time. If it’s a 25-yard pass, that’s not a bad gain offensively.”
I still go back to this:
you have nothing to lose by remaining positive about players/starters that are under contract.
you have a lot to lose by speaking negative about players/starters that are under contract – unless your sole purpose is to light a fire under their ass.
Also, if your intent is to actually trade Cassel – you don’t want to say anything publicly that would devalue him in the least bit. Of course other teams should know better and would have done their research on their own and made their own decisions – but there is nothing to be gained by speaking negatively.
Lying or not, the last thing I would expect is Crennel to come out and say “Cassel’s deep ball leaves a lot to be desired.” Or “Matt just doesn’t have a very pretty deep ball”. It serves no purpose.
Ochophosphate - February 16, 2012
yup, you got it
upamtn - February 16, 2012
These most recent statements are not Crennel's only comments about Cassel
I think Aiken may be including the other comments he has made
That being said, I have strong doubts that we have seen Cassel’s ceiling. I don’t know if it is much higher than what he gave us in 2010, but I think we will find out this season
PVChiefsfan - February 16, 2012
Every year its the same thing. Give him another year to prove himself.
Mr.Pibbs - February 16, 2012
I agree with your last statement
Crennel wouldn’t do that to ANY QB. The whole point of this discussion though, was does Romeo think Cassel can do the job. You believe that he is just paying lipservice to Cassel because he has nothing to lose by saying anything negative. I think there is a bit more to it. We don’t know what the exact question from Teicher was. My point is that Romeo went out of his way (a little anyway) to assert that Cassel has the arm to throw the deep ball and that Daboll is going to change up what has been seen on the field during Haley’s tenure. Romeo could have just said that Matt is the QB and Daboll is bringing his own changes to the offense without getting specific about how his changes were going to affect the offensive game plan. Instead, he says that Daboll is going to attack a bit more than we have in the recent past and that Matt has the arm to do so. That is not just lip service, it’s an indication of what Romeo thinks Matt is capable of. I don’t think Romeo was lying either. Remember that Romeo is a defensive coach with a very poor record of operating an offense. What he thinks of Cassel (right or wrong) is seen through that same window.
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
i disagree
John Elway came out just at the beginning of last year and said he doesn’t have confidence in Tebow… haha
BlackDoom - February 16, 2012
It is too bad,
We’ll be a first round loss, every 1 to 3 years, until they do
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
yup
With a few 7-9 seasons.mixed in
Rupert Daniels - February 16, 2012 via mobile
You did type in all caps, hence you must be right
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
I really just don't understand his love.
Aiken will find the love in anything Chiefs, he can’t say one negative thing. But from my eyes Cassel has peaked, and his peak wasn’t very good.
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
By that justifications Bowe had a crappy year in 2007 and a bad start in 2008
should we have cut or traded him away because he had peaked in his rookie year.
You can’t judge a peak based on one year, if Cassel has 3 years as bad as this one I’d agree but theres not nearly enough evidence to say he’s peaked yet.
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
ok You're obviously set in your ways, just like I am,
But let me put it this way. Bowe is great 80 % of the time, Cassel is bad 80% of the time. Obviously ou are ok with mediocre QB’s. That’s fine, you can root for the Chiefs to keep sucking if you want.
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
If you want to know what I root for you should ask me not make inflammitory assumtions
I would never root for the Chiefs to suck.
I also love your pulled out of your butt 80% numbers
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
You're rooting for Cassel
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
so it seems you're fine with them sucking
I’m dine arguing. Later
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
done
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
if you truly think Cassel is bad 80% of the time
Then you are rooting against him, and them
PVChiefsfan - February 16, 2012
Sorry, I can't see that argument
By making a claim that someone is not good 80% of the time, I don’t see how it equates to “rooting against them.” He was stating what he believes is an accurate percentage. Personally, I cannot stand #7, but I’d say he’s only bad 60% of the time (which is still FAR too much).
It is a fact that #7 is not a good QB. He’s mediocre at very best. Saying that his success rate is lower than his failure rate, in no way, equates to rooting against him. Not to me anyway.
SCKSChief - February 16, 2012
If you go and compare Cassels stats to
other QBs in the past you will find some interesting comparisons. For instance, compare Cassel to Phil Simms. Would you be happy with a Simms clone? Check it out.
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
That still has nothing to do with
equating #7’s lack of success for “rooting against him.”
As to Phil Simms…it was a different era. QBs were not asked to throw nearly as much or carry as much of the load in the NFL at that time.
SCKSChief - February 17, 2012
Never said anything about equating the two.
Although I do agree with PV that we have not seen Cassel’s ceiling. Terry Bradshaw wasn’t asked to carry the load in Pittsburg? Staubach in Dallas? Montana in SF? You see this is the fundamental flaw in thinking that the QB position can singularly win games often enough to make the rest of the team unimportant. It cannot be done. The team is the thing.
Aiken_Drum - February 18, 2012
Again please don't tell me what I'm doing
I root for the QB of the Chiefs, whoever that is. so yes as long as Cassel is our QB I will root for him.
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
Dude, he's been bashing the organization since they fired Haley.
He’ll find negative things about them when they cut guys he’s developed sort of emotional tie to.
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
Yep,
fully agree. I used to agree with alot of what he said, but it’s just full blown too much now
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
No, apparently you cant say that without sounding hateful.
nateforchiefs - February 16, 2012
"...good enough arm..."
Not exactly the most complimentary comment coming from your HC.
I should’ve just taken the first two words. Matt Cassel is “good enough” to play in the NFL. I don’t know how you read that, but to me “good enough” < good. I’d like a good QB, not a good enough QB.
7chiefs7 - February 16, 2012
Oh, I don't know...
I wouldn’t mind having a QB that was ‘good enough’ to win the Super Bowl…would you?
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
Not really
Would you really be happy with Trent Dilfer as your starting QB?
7chiefs7 - February 16, 2012
If he won a super bowl?
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
Well I don't know, let's look how Baltimore liked their "good enough" SB winning QB
Started 2 games during the season. Not welcomed back the next season. But he seemed to be “good enough” to win a SB.
So my answer is: I don’t want a “good enough” QB. If we can field a team the best defensive team around Cassel and Cassel can ride the defense’s coat tails to a SB, I still wouldn’t want Cassel the next year.
7chiefs7 - February 16, 2012
Thank GOD!
I finally have confirmation, from at least one fan, that winning isn’t enough.
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
That is just fantastic logical reasoning on your part
(fan does not like poor caliber QB) + (team wins SB) + (fan still doesn’t like poor caliber QB) = (winning isn’t enough)
I’d love to win an SB with Cassel or even you as our QB. But I’m a believer that football isn’t QB versus QB. It’s team versus team.
Dilfer meant nothing to a SB winning team and he was gone the next year. I guess that means, according to your flawless formula, you also have confirmation from at least one NFL team that winning isn’t enough?
7chiefs7 - February 16, 2012
Cassels team around him isn't quite good enough
To win the super bowl without a good qb. We saw what happens when he gets into the playoffs . He stinks . Or every other game of the season. He’s to inconsistent. Plus he’s 30 years old and isn’t gaining anymore talent
chiefsman! - February 16, 2012 via mobile
More importantly, does anyone really think Trent Dilfer could have won the Super Bowl in this day and age?
It’s been a long time since Brad Johnson. The league has changed a lot. In the last 5 years, the quarterback with the weakest hall of fame credentials to appear in the Super Bowl has probably been Kurt Warner. Think about it.
MtHammer - February 16, 2012
If you have a defense that is holding teams to 14/15 ppg anyone can win .....except Palko
Willie Beamon - February 16, 2012
rex grossman
CHIEFFAN82 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Rex Grossman:
A. Was more talented than Dilfer and Johnson
and
B. Was 6 years ago. Pre Bernard Pollard wrecking Brady’s knee and ushering in new protect the QB rules, pre concussion-mania and new defenseless receiver rules, pre everyone and their mother throwing for 4000 and 5000 yards in a season.
and
C. Lost the Super Bowl
MtHammer - February 16, 2012
Brian Billick wrote some interesting thoughts about his time with Dilfer:
link
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
That's incredibly interesting.
Rec’d.
MtHammer - February 16, 2012
Wow you are reading way too deep into 3 works
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
Just replying to what Aiken said
“Crennel on record saying he thinks [Cassel can make the throws he needs to]”. I don’t read Crennel’s comments the same way, considering what we’ve all seen from Cassel and the way Crennel chose his words.
7chiefs7 - February 16, 2012
The truth is Matt Cassel is an average QB
Gretz has a great piece on Peyton Manning today. Free to everyone, not just subscribers.
ChiefConcern - February 16, 2012
Maybe...
in practice when nobody is allowed to touch him and he knows that. In a game? No way. Not by a long shot.
Face Painter - February 16, 2012
What truth is there to realize?
Eastcoastransplant - February 16, 2012
And then there's Aiken
At first I liked what he wrote because he was patient enough to give this regime a chance. As time went on, I got the impression that he was a homer no matter what. Now, after still defending Cassel and saying the detractors will see the truth? Now I think he’s arguing just to argue.
old_school - February 16, 2012 via mobile
SSSSSSSHHHHHHHH!
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
Probably not as bad as everyone is making it sound
Cassel can get the ball downfield he’s just not accurate, But really how many pro QBs have an accurate deep ball, not many in my opinion.
Lets try this for comparison Larry Fitz ran a 4.4 at the combine and Boldin had a horrible combine, seriously ran a 4.7. The Cards did pretty well in their superbowl run year, got the ball downfield. You can get the deep ball downfield with fast receivers, big receivers or really good route runners, we’ve got 2 big receivers (if Bowe gets resigned) so I think we’ll be just fine if we try to do that.
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
I can drive a golf ball 380 yards, unfortunately it's usually over a freeway and it won't get me in the PGA :-)
Supersport - February 29, 2012
Before we go any further I wish someone would provide some stats on this downfield passing.
What I’m looking for is NOT the official stat of a 20 or 30 yard pass play, because those stats NEVER reveal how far the BALL actually sailed in the air. Example; Tebow’s toouchdown in overtime. How far did the ball fly compared to the yardage he was credited with on the TD. I’ve not done the research, but I’ll make a guess, and that guess is that more balls with only 10 – 15 yards of airtime result in 30 yard passplays compared to balls with at least 25 – 30 yards of airtime.
Again, I want stats!
BCRavenJHawkfan - February 16, 2012
I don't even care about Stats,
My eyes prove to me, Cassel is purely a backup, that can win a game now and then .I want no part of him being the starting QB anymore. He just looks pathetic 80% of the time. Too many people see the 20 % and think he can become better. It’s just laughable
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
Obviously "your eyes" know more than the decades of experience on the Chiefs staff
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
My bad didn't realize FO's can't make mistakes.
When Pioli can admit a mistake, you will see the Chiefs in a better place.
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
I get the feeling that that "decades of experience" likely knows this now
In three years with KC, Matt Cassel has three games of 300+ yards. One of those games was a 450+ yard performance against Denver last year when the game was something like 35-0 for Denver in the first quarter. Great garbage time numbers.
Kyle Orton put up 299 yards or better in 2 of 3 games this year without Moeaki and Charles (and second/third string players in their place).
Are you really convinced that a guy that struggles to make 300 yard performances can be “our guy” to move the ball downfield?
7chiefs7 - February 16, 2012
I don't know
are you convinced that a guy that overcomes a 17 point deficit sucks?….wait, I think I know the answer to that.
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
The fact that there was a 17 point deficit against the 2-14 2011 Colts is sad to begin with.
But if that’s your example, I rest my case.
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
Let's see if you're right...
YES. Cassel sucks. I never liked the signing to begin with. I dislike it even more now.
I hope Orton gets signed. He would be able to use the weapons we have (as he did in the last three games (and once again with Charles and Moeaki)). Cassel simply can’t take advantage of them. Whether you agree or not, I don’t really care.
When next season rolls around, if Cassel is our starter, I’ll gladly watch and hope I’m wrong. But I’ve seen enough to form an opinion that Cassel sucks.
7chiefs7 - February 16, 2012
Orton isn't much better.
Tomahawk29 - February 16, 2012
Agreed
but the horrifically sad fact remains that he IS indeed better. Even if by the slightest of margins.
SCKSChief - February 16, 2012
The team that had the 17 point lead on us is currently getting ready to pick first in the draft.
But we all know Matt Cassel excels against poor defenses. He just doesn’t play well against good ones.
MtHammer - February 16, 2012
He did pretty good in 2007
The Cheifs are a run first team. If Orton is resigned as our starter I think we’d see a lot lower numbers with a healthy Charles, just how the offense was designed. Wow I have no idea what it will look like with a new OC and HC, so maybe they’d change things around who knows.
OmahaNick - February 16, 2012
Can't find 2011 yet, but have 2010
And maybe that’s best because some consider 2010 Matt’s best year ever.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/10/going-deep/
You’ll see our boy Matt sitting in the basement on deep pass completion % – rock bottom, at 24.56%.
On the positive, he only threw deep 12.67% of the time (maybe they knew he sucked at it)
On the double positive, he had a pretty low interception rate when going deep (5th lowest).
I’ll let you know if I track down any 2011 stats.
Might be worth noting that in 2010 – Orton had the 11th best deep ball completion % and the lowest deep ball interception %.
Ochophosphate - February 16, 2012
lol
The low int rate on deep passes comes from the fact that the ball was so badly thrown neither player could get to it.
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
From what I have seen
Those 20 – 30 yard airtime passes are a pretty low percentage pass for any QB. When they used to actually pull up the pass placement charts during games you would see the short passes were a medium percentage pass for any QB during just about any game, the mid range passes were the higher percentage passes, and those deeper than 20 yard passes tended to be below 20% completion percentage.
On top of that the medium and short range passes tend to be the ones that burn a defense. Those deep balls tend to take a bit to develop and give the defense time to react and either get an int, bat the ball down, or stop the play for little to no gain.
Zif - February 16, 2012
well the key is not always about how many you make the but the timing and respect you garner from completing a few of them .
For instance Ortons ability to hit those throws frequently holds the safeties and by doing so it opens holes in coverage that even guys we thought had retired (Pope) could get open in .
Willie Beamon - February 16, 2012
Cassel is so bad, it's not even funny.
The “hate” around here is completely justified. The eye test proves it. The stats prove it. Cassel is terrible and I look forward to more sub-200 yard games next season.
NJChieffan16 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
you're wrong,
Cassel is better than Tom Brady, We’ll win the next 8 super Bowls with him. WOHOOO go Cassel with your rocket laser arm.
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
Uhmmm?
Brady’s deep ball is nothing to write home about. Brady excels at the short to mid range pass. I have seen a few deep balls from Brady that either float or fall short.
Watch some of the Pats games and you will see plenty of times where a reciever has to pull up for those over 20 yard passes.
Zif - February 16, 2012
Tom Brady can throw deep, just look at some 07 highlights
This year, people just forgot because New England lacked a pure deep threat receiver.
kc_Chiefs_31 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Not talking about
just this year. I have seen plenty of times over the years where a receiver has to pull up to catch a Brady deep ball.
Zif - February 16, 2012
Is this Romeo's way of saying "we want to throw the ball deep downfield but Cassel can only throw it 25 yards?
saskwatch - February 16, 2012
I could care less about Cassel's arm strength and even to soime degree the accuracy.
Those things can be taught. His problem is he can’t read defenses on the fly, can move through the receivers post snap, and has zero pocket presence. These problems are all instinctual and I don’t think will ever be overcome.
saskwatch - February 16, 2012
^^THIS^^
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
taught? arm strength can be taught? wow ... who knew!
upamtn - February 16, 2012
just think we'll all look like Popeye soon!
LadyChief - February 16, 2012
I think he meant developed
A guy can improve arm strength…although I’m with you that at this point in his career #7 isn’t going to gain much in the way of arm strength.
SCKSChief - February 16, 2012
The thing with Cassel is, he's not a rookie anymore. He's about to turn 30. He's going into his eigth season in the league and his fifth as a starter.
Forget the instinctual stuff, Cassel should have already learned most of the “teachable” stuff by now.
MtHammer - February 16, 2012
Yep
He’s pretty solid until he gets flustered. Unfortunately, all it takes to get him flustered is the slightest shrinking in the pocket or tight coverage on his primary receiver.
joplin chiefs fan - February 16, 2012
Reply fail
at sask
joplin chiefs fan - February 16, 2012
Man...Cassel is suck a joke
Brad-KC - February 16, 2012
meant such a joke...but suck a joke works too
Brad-KC - February 16, 2012
suck a joke works better
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
Infact, I'll use it as my SIG
dbakerku - February 16, 2012
Good idea.
bossmanham - February 16, 2012
Cassel watches
Each step Dwayne Bowe takes and apparently when he gets to the imaginary X on the field he decides to throw. The problem is he doesn’t look at the safeties who see him watching Dwayne Bowe step for step. Nor does he see the defensive lineman bearing down on him while he is waiting for Dwayne Bowe to reach the imaginary X.
PhxChief75 - February 16, 2012
As evidenced by his poor INT ratio.
Tomahawk29 - February 16, 2012
Unfortunately
For Cassel to be effective, we will have to design the entire system around him. He can perform in the no huddle but we would need to add more depth at WR and the O-Line to make the no huddle a constant in our overall scheme.
chiefs_kc_fan - February 16, 2012
Cassel has a great deep ball....
if you compare him to Palko.
5280ChiefsFan - February 16, 2012
Cassel has a strength?????........
what is it?
dt58 - February 16, 2012
He is a nice guy?
5280ChiefsFan - February 16, 2012
He tends to
be very good in a no huddle, or hurry up offense. He tends to suck when the play doesn’t get called in until there is 9 – 10 seconds left on the play clock leaving him no time to even look to see if his OL has lined up yet before he has to hike the ball. You put Manning on his best day into that type of situation and he is going to get killed.
Zif - February 16, 2012
Oh, ok
So that explains every deep range wobbler, every off target pass, and every single time he didn’t go through progressions. I get it now. Just wonder what the excuse will be next year.
old_school - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Cassel blows.....
The only time he has success is when his primary receiver has a wide open route and he is not pressured, and his accuracy beyond 20 yards doesn’t exist.
I like the idea of Daboll making the offensive quicker, if you look back on 2010/2011, most of our success was when we were running a no-huddle, fast paced, short throw or run game. Why we abandoned that after commanding the field is beyond me, maybe it was because Cassel couldn’t remember more than 3 plays in succession at a time.
Rokbrnc - February 16, 2012
Surely you guys are overanalyzing his words.
I don’t think our offense is going to be based around rocketing the ball downfield. This isn’t a Madden video game. Daboll said the offense would attack more.
What I thought of was Mizzou’s offense. Most of Mizzou’s passes are between 10-20 yards. This pulls back the linebackers so we can run the ball more effectively. I imagine this is what Daboll has in mind, NOT going for a hail mary every play.
By the way, the long ball statistics aren’t fair because Matt Cassel doesn’t have a speedy deep threat. When you have that fast guy on your team, you can pretty much just chuck it in his direction and know that he’ll get there. We don’t have that guy.
In addition, it says it’s for pass plays for a gain of 20 or more yards. Does that mean you can throw a screen pass and run for 20 yards, or throw it 15 yards and gain 5 more, or is this only for balls that are in the air for over 20 yards? If the last one is the case, then I don’t really care if Matt Cassel is at the bottom. No one bases their offense around passes that are in the air for over 20 yards.
Vince D - February 16, 2012
You dont need blazing speed to have a deep ball game I think Orton and Brandon Lloyd and Jabar Gaffney proved that in 2010 in Denver
I know that Bowe and Baldwin are faster than Brandon Lloyd . Its a connection and mindset that your coach/Qb/WR needs to have and your QB have for to be willing to stand in there hold the ball for that extra to get the ball downfield .
You should care if Matt is in the bottom of the league in big plays over 25 yards in the air because there are not many teams in the NFL if any who can consistently put together 15 play drives every single possession .
The best offenses force defenses to cover every part of the field
Willie Beamon - February 16, 2012
didnt the '98 vikings base thier offense off the deep ball
to randy moss? it seems like they’d chuck it deep to back the defense up so robert smith and chris carter could handle short-intermediate gains!
stuck in denver - February 16, 2012
maybe we should be chanting for
Randall Cunningham! lol
stuck in denver - February 16, 2012
Going to stick with Cassel's strengths
What are those?
Taking the snap, he rarely fumbles that
Dropping back, he rarely just falls down
Holding on to the ball a really long time
We should stick with those.
Fozzyboyd - February 16, 2012
He is good at handing it off. Come on, man!
Mr.Pibbs - February 16, 2012
Only if he is handing it off to Jamaal
Fozzyboyd - February 16, 2012
is it possible
that pioli is blinded by the patriot way? by the patriot way i mean having a guy like tom brady who can makes chicken salad out of chicken shit. so they dont pay alot of money for guys other than the ones in the trenches who protect him and still make it to superbowls. matt cassel needs a lot of pre made chicken salad ..what i mean is will they refrain from paying dbowe big money because in the “tom brady” way they would not do that?
arrowheadsoldier56 - February 16, 2012 via Android app
I think Scott Pioli realizes Matt Cassel can't create "No names" into stars
I’m sure he knows Bowe is our biggest threat at that position.. The chiefs are definitely not deep enough to say “Where so good, we don’t really need a talent like Bowe because we have Matt Cassel and he doesn’t need good WR’s to be successful.”
kc_Chiefs_31 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
I'm very encouraged that Romeo said they're "probably" going to try to get the ball down the field more.
This is a change that in my opinion needs to happen, and I’m glad to hear this sign that it will happen.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
Does anyone notice
That when a WR drops a ball or something doesn’t go right, Cassel always flips out and runs over and yells at them. I think it’s obvious and not a groundbreaking observation I just don’t see ppl mention it. I don’t see any other QB act as animated and aggressive as him. It seems as if he’s standing up his WRs. I understand being the leader and telling ppl when the screw up (Brady and Manning do it all the time) but it seems Cassel goes over the top, especially when he’s the weak link on the offense. Brady and Manning usually address it on the sideline when the defense is on the field.
Jamaarles25 - February 16, 2012
Do you go to the games?
I have to watch them on TV. I don’t agree with you when you say that Cassel runs over and ‘flips out’ when a pass is dropped. i didn’t see that on TV. If you tell me it happened at the games and not on the Telly, I have to take your word. I don’t characterize Cassel as an overbearing QB that throws his receivers under the bus. Actually, I have never seen him do that.
Aiken_Drum - February 16, 2012
Ask yourself..
Scythian - February 17, 2012
Ask yourself...
How often do you see Cassel hit a receiver in stride at any distance?
How often do our recievers seem to make circus catches as opposed to routine ones, are any routine?
Why did an average NFL qb look like a Probowler when he took over the Chiefs?
Long story short, Cassel sucks. People might admire his grit or his attitude or whatever but dudes peaked and it’s not gonna cut it.
We need a guy who can carry the Offense on his back from time to time and Cassel has shown he folds like a cheap tent when that happens.
RGIII baby…
Scythian - February 17, 2012
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