By the time April hits, I could sit around and listen to NFL Network's Mike Mayock talk all day long. I'm not even kidding. By that point, I have a much better idea of the prospects than I do now and I can follow where he's going with a lot of what he says. He's pretty much the man (sorta like Brandon Flowers, also the man).
The NFL Combine is next week and NFL Network will have a million live hours of coverage (or something like that) so they had Mayock on a conference call with NFL reporters this week gearing up for that and the draft in April.
One of the interesting things Mayock had to say was that this is one of the best years for interior offensive linemen -- your centers and guards.
"[David] DeCastro to me is a first round interior offensive lineman," Mayock said. "Peter Konz, the center from Wisconsin is a late one to mid two. I think Zeitler from Wisconsin is also in that same range, and you might be able to get a guy like Ben Jones from Georgia late in the second round. I think, depending on how it plays out, I think there is a lot of flexibility with that interior offensive lineman draft. I think for the first three rounds, you can get a lot of quality at center or either guard."
Interesting. The
Chiefs are pretty well set at two of the three interior offensive line positions with
Jon Asamoah and Rodney Hudson. There's a little less certainty with Ryan Lilja. He's 30 years old and entering the final year of his contract.
With Mayock emphasizing the depth of the interior offensive line this year, it makes you wonder if the Chiefs will pick up another guard to replace Lilja, or another center and move Hudson to guard. They picked up Asamoah in 2010 and he didn't start until 2011, which is a scenario I could see the Chiefs utilizing with a rookie and Lilja.
Why is Brandon Flowers the man here? Or is there something I missed when he was drafted and a comment by Mayock?
danmang - February 16, 2012
He's the man everywhere
ChiefRocka - February 16, 2012
More reason not to have to take Decastro in the first?
RememberDelaney37 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Don’t break my heart Delaney
ExRoyalsFan - February 16, 2012
It was just valentines day
RememberDelaney37 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Sounds good to me.
KC_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
The problem with this is
I don’t think we can afford to draft a backup C in the first 3 rounds. We have too many other needs. Are there any good options at C from round 5 or later?
Chiefs4Life - February 16, 2012
Harris.
Tarkus - February 16, 2012
DeCastro would be our starting LG for the next 10-12 years
Not a backup center.
Hudson can also play guard, although his size is probably better suited at center. But if we wanted to, Konz at center and moving Hudson to LG would be an option.
I think Konz and Zeitler will both be starters for a long-time in this league, but I think there is quite a bit of a drop-off from DeCastro to them.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
Don't count Konz out at G
We could just as likely leave Hudson at center and start Konz at guard. He’s got ideal guard side and a lot of people are overlooking the fact that Konz is the second ranked guard in the draft behind DeCastro in addition to being the top center.
Everest - February 16, 2012
Yeah, I think he could probably play both
Sort of the opposite situation with Hudson, who played mainly G in college and we moved him to C. Asamoah also had experience at center and guard in college.
Common theme: Pioli likes versatility.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
I'm not saying DeCastro would play C
I’m saying that Mayock claims there are good interior linemen in the first three rounds but we need more than one. I’m all for drafting Decastro at LG, but we only have 1 center on the roster and will need another before next year. I don’t see us using 2 picks in the first three rounds to grab DeCastro and a center. So we will need to grab a center after round 3 and I have looking at Egnew in the fourth round, so our center will need to come from round 5 or later.
Chiefs4Life - February 16, 2012
Or from the practice squad...
Darryl Harris is a center.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
not a good one
stagdsp - February 17, 2012
Late-round centers I like
William Vlachos, Moe Petrus. Petrus can play G/C and could likely be had in the 7th or undrafted. Vlachos is another 7th/UDFA guy who has been productive in college, but scouts didn’t like his “build” when he took his shirt off at the Senior Bowl. I don’t care as much about that as some scouts might.
Phillip Blake from Baylor is a 4th rounder that can also kick out to guard. Some people around here have mocked him to KC. Michael Brewster isn’t a bad option at 3-4, and is likely starter-caliber, although I don’t think he is going to be an All-Pro.
I add with Mayock though, this is a deep draft for OL in general and we NEED to fix our O-Line this year. FA is deep at guard as well with Carl Nicks and Ben Grubbs. No excuses if we go into the next year with Lilja at LG, there are just too many other opportunities to upgrade. I think Lilja deserves a roster spot as a backup swing guard, but he doesn’t need to be starting.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
Vlachos is terrible
but, I like Blake
Grubbs would be ideal
stagdsp - February 17, 2012
I think we already drafted our back up C....his name is Hudson
I think Hudson was drafted as a byproduct of the lockout and the unclear status of Wiegmann last off-season. Pioli wasn’t sure if Wiegs would be back, Wiegs wasn’t sure if he would be back, and Rudy was bye-bye, so Pioli needed a backup C anyway….and got one with interior versatility.
I could be way off, but I’m not sure Hudson is Pioli’s real plan at either G or C. Therefore, I wouldn’t be surprised to see three new linemen in KC: LG, C, and RT.
chief Stevie_k - February 16, 2012
Hudson will start at center this year
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
agreed
stagdsp - February 17, 2012
Hudson was a high second round pick, and he played well in spot duty. He'll start somewhere.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
we'll see
if we use the same logic as the ‘Stanzi sucks’ crowd, Hudson is worse than Wiegmann and Lilja because he couldn’t beat out either of them for a spot.
chief Stevie_k - February 17, 2012
I think he did beat out Lilja, they just kept the veteran in there at certain times. Hudson was getting some significant playing time in the second half of the season.
Wiegmann had the unbreakable streak going.
Brsrkr - February 17, 2012
Is an 'unbreakable streak' worth missing out on the playoffs?
either the best players played or the chiefs didn’t care about making the playoffs???
I’m happy for Wiegmann. Its a great accomplishment, but if Hudson was better, putting him in would have been the right thing to do…you know, for the good of the team.
chief Stevie_k - February 17, 2012
Matt Wedige Northern ILanois
saints_chiefsfan1979 - February 18, 2012
Asamoah, Hudson and DeCastro lined up together.
Hot damn that sounds good
T-train61 - February 16, 2012
Yes sir it truly does...
but i cant get Richardson out of my head if he’s there.
ChiefRocka - February 16, 2012
Why not build a young, dominant O-Line?
And then it won’t matter who we line up at RB.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
Or...
We get a fantastic running back and create a young, dominant line.
For some reason its one or the other, why can’t it be both?
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
agree
1st round Albert
2nd round Hudson
3rd round Asamoah
6th round Richardson
I don’t remember where we drafted Lilja at but we did
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
We didn't draft Lilja, we signed him as an undrafted FA
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
We selected him then as an UDFA
He was ours originally
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
Well, we didn't technically select him, he was a FA
But, semantics…
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
Well, because:
1. RBs have a much higher injury rate than O-Linemen
2. Shelf-life of RBs is notoriously poor
3. A dominant O-Line can produce RBs that outperform better players
4. What is the difference between Trent Richardson and Thomas Jones?
I don’t care how strong a guy is at RB in the NFL. The opposing D-Linemen and LBs are even bigger and even stronger. What you need is quickness, agility, and vision. I don’t think Richardson is the top in his class in any category except brute strength. Yeah, he will break through arm tackles that smaller RBs might not. But if Brian Urlacher or Ray Lewis is tackling you, it doesn’t really matter how big your biceps are.
Thomas Jones is another workout warrior, but he is always down in one-hit because defenses in the league are damn good. It isn’t pee-wee where the biggest guy runs all over everyone else.
It is easy to get impressed with a guy like Richardson, because he is a physical specimen. But I think he is vastly overrated. People compare him to AP, but I just don’t see it. AP was much faster and had better vision. Not a fair comparison.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
so you are on the scat back thought train?
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
I'm on the FA thought train
It is a deep class at RB in FA and we need a proven guy that can produce right away since JC will likely not be at 100%. Not Thomas Jones, but someone that still has a little bit left in the tank. BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Peyton Hillis, Marshawn Lynch, Mike Tolbert, etc.
We already have a “scat back” in DexMex and I think he produced enough to warrant carries going forward. I would also like to re-sign McClain and use him more as a bruiser and short-yardage back — I think he can be more productive in that role than Jackie Battle was.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
agreed, for the most part
BGE is probably the most likely option, and he makes some sense.
I would be happy with another fast RB in the draft (Miller/Pead) as long as they get plenty of OL help and S depth somewhere
stagdsp - February 17, 2012
^this!
chief Stevie_k - February 17, 2012
Yup, RB strength doesn't matter unless the O line can get them past the D line.
I saw Bettis try to run through Neil Smith once. I still chuckle when I think about that.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
Exactly
You don’t have to bench 600 lbs. to break an arm-tackle from a CB either — most NFL running backs should be able to do that.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
Well, don't get me wrong, I think an AP's or a Tolbert's strength is absolutely an asset.
Its just that every back needs some minimal set-up…..except for Charles. And maybe MJD. The really sneaky backs can make their own holes in the D line, but the contact runners like Richardson seems to be only get valuable when they’re escorted past the big eaters.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
and DeCastro would start day One :)
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
But would his ouster of Lilja improve the team more than, say, a RT or a passrusher or any number of other positions
Only last year, everyone was raving about Lilja, and this year they’re ready to dump him when other positions are more pressing. It makes no sense.
Dagda - February 16, 2012
the loss of Charles
and the decline of Thomas
are huge
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
the question has two answers
one for the immediate future (2012 season)
and one for the actual future (2013 and beyond).
the answer could be the same, depending on who you ask.
Instead of asking if ‘ousting’ Lilja improves the team more than adding a RT, realize the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
1. It wouldn’t necessarily be ’ousting Lilja, but moving Lilja to a backup role (adding much needed depth). Is that not a good thing for the team in the immediate future?
2. Is adding a potential 10-12 year, all-pro guard a bad thing?
3. Would drafting DeCastro necessarily stop KC from drafting a RT? After all, if RT is that big of a need, surely finding an upgrade over Richardson wouldn’t be that difficult, right? (Its like finding Palko’s replacement….)
4. Does the whole line have to be completely built for the 2012 season to be a success? (Note: 2010 playoff team with weak link at RT. Note: 2011 team missed playoffs by one game with same weak link at RT.)
chief Stevie_k - February 17, 2012
Is any OG ever worth selecting in the first round?
Dagda - February 16, 2012
I can name a few
Current players: Logan Mankins, Jahari Evans
Legends: Will Shields, Bruce Matthews
LT is the most important position for pass blocking. LG is the most important position for run blocking.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
Davin Joseph In Tampa
Ben Grubbs in Baltimore (who will be a young UFA this year). Both of them were first round worthy. Robert Gallery in Oakland might have made the list except they wasted years playing him at tackle and drafted him too high for a guard to be a value pick. Mike Munchak back in the day would have been worth it. Same with John Hannah.
UCrawford - February 17, 2012
Carl Nicks, Larry Allen, Jerry Kramer
The list goes on and on…
ChiefWarPaint - February 17, 2012
Carl Nicks dropped because he played tackle in college, so he was a risk to transition to guard.
Brsrkr - February 17, 2012
Yeah but he's still worth a 1st round pick
ChiefWarPaint - February 17, 2012
Jahri Evans was a 4th rounder
Will Shields was a 3rd rounder. Clearly you can find exceptional talent (rather easily I might add) in the middle rounds. It doesn’t take a high selection to regularly hit on a guard. Jon Asamoah is the perfect example. Hell, Ryan Lilja, a college free agent is another. Guards are easy to find. You don’t waste a high pick on them unless you have picks to waste.
Dagda - February 17, 2012
Or you want to grab a talent with HOF potential
That won’t be there later.
ChiefWarPaint - February 17, 2012
How many HOF guards were taken in the top 12?
3 , not even Gene Upshaw was a top 15 pick and many consider him to be the greatest guard of all time
saints_chiefsfan1979 - February 18, 2012
Having a great tackle can make any average/decent guard look better tho. Barry Richardson can’t be allowed to sniff out a starting position next year. I think we should establish the outside before we look inside.
WMR - February 16, 2012 via mobile
I think LG and RT are equal weaknesses
We could be in a position to go RT in the first and LG in the 2nd. A potentially ideal scenario would be trade down from #11/12 to around #21 and grab the best T available (Jonathan Martin, Mike Adams, or Riley Reiff should be there). Then grab a C/G in the 2nd in Zeitler or Konz — both should be immediate starters.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
I'd be in favor of upgrading both positions, to be sure, but I can't support the statement that both LG and RT are equal needs.
If we could only replace on of them and I had to pick between Lilja and Richardson, I’d pick Richardson and I wouldn’t even have to think about it.
Lilja was our best o-linemen two years ago. He could conceivably return to form with a legit center starting next to him. Richardson went from below-average to an abomination.
MtHammer - February 16, 2012
Lilja at RG is acceptable
Lilja at LG is not.
If you want to move Asamoah to LG and put Lilja back at RG, fine.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
Agreed.
Having said that, though, Richardson’s problems appear to be mental where Lilja might be on the downslope physically. One is possibly fixable, the other is not.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
Lilja Has Bum Knees
He’s had them since he got here but I think they became more of a problem in 2011.
UCrawford - February 17, 2012
That's too bad, because that's something that's probably not going to get any better.
Not until humans learn how to grow new cartilage.
Brsrkr - February 17, 2012
HGH?
chief Stevie_k - February 17, 2012
Mayock just came out with an updated rankings list:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/09000d5d826f9cd9/article/precombine-position-rankings-for-2012-nfl-draft?module=HP11_content_stream
Crazy list, his bias for smaller players is becoming more and more obvious.
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
Yeah, I don't like his safety rankings or TE
But I don’t see anything too farfetched.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
A DE with 30 inch arms at number one?
Who at the same time didn’t show much during Senior Bowl week, and didn’t start in college? What?
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
I haven't paid much attention to the DEs, other than those that project as OLBs
I don’t think Ingram is better than Coples, but I am sure you could argue it. As long as the Top 5 is the Top 5 I don’t really care about the order of the rankings for purposes like this, because a lot of what will determine the success of these players is scheme-dependent.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
It just reminds me too much of McCoy>Suh
Mayock doesn’t rank power or length very highly, and is very specific.
I think if he were a GM he’d field a tiny team lol.
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
Didn't show much during senior bowl week and didn't start in college?
Where do you get these observations?
GenericBrand - February 16, 2012
Well he didn't start in college
And at the Senior Bowl wasn’t great.
So yeah, basing it off the truth I suppose?
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
Man you're clueless sometimes
He started every game this past college year and even in games where he didn’t techinically “start” he played a huge majority of the snaps. As for the senior bowl, he dominated every day in the drills and plays a position that isn’t really on display because of the rules during the game. The guy is the most explosive and versatile, front seven player in this draft.
GenericBrand - February 16, 2012
Start where?
Devin Taylor and Clowney started DE. He played many snaps, I don’t disagree with that.
He didn’t dominate during the game, and as the week went along the linemen began to get used to him and started becoming a non-factor.
He’s explosive and versatile, but with 30 inch arms he’s not going top 10, I even doubt top 20.
Here’s where I’m getting my info on Ingram btw, a S. Carolina fan who doesn’t show obvious biases ;)
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
I could disagree with alot of that on so many levels but no point because you've made up your mind without seeing him play much.
For the record Clowney did not start one game this year. He makes up for the arm length and height with his explosiveness, speed and relentlessness. I didn’t see one report of anyone figuring him out during drills Senior Bowl week and saw every practice that they showed on TV. He has an elite array of pass rush moves and kept every olineman he went up against off balance. I really have no bias because once a player leaves college I really couldn’t give two shits about which school they played for unless of course seeing every snap this guy has ever played is considered bias.
GenericBrand - February 16, 2012
Okay whatever you say man
ChiefWarPaint - February 17, 2012
So, what causes the list to change at this time of year? Senior Bowl reviews?
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
Yeah, and he looks at more tape
He’s not a dedicated scout, you’ll see more changes once the Combine gets out of the way.
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
I wonder how much is swayed by discussions with other scouts, GMs, etc.?
Dagda - February 17, 2012
I don't find this a savory group for 1st round consideration
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
Why not?
Adams and Glenn look good too, don’t know about Reiff and Martin for us but wouldn’t be completely against it.
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
1. 295 lbs
2. Iowa Lineman, Robert Gallery comes to mind
3. LT only
4. would have to draft to high
5. project at Tackle, exc Guard though
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
1. Good enough size, can still fill out in the NFL. Bull Rushes aren’t a problem for him, and he’s pretty damn good in the run game and reminds me of Albert downfield blocking.
2. I agree, although he’s no Robert Gallery. Much longer arms.
3. Can agree
4. So? He’s an automatic starter and upgrade at RT, with upside to be a damn good LT. I’m game.
5. Well we’d draft him to be a Guard anyways, and not that early either way.
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
Yeah, small flaws. The thing is, most other years have a couple guys at the top with no discernible flaws.
That’s what makes this a weaker tackle class at the top end. There’s no Joe Thomas or Jake Long types.
Brsrkr - February 17, 2012
Iowa Linemen?
Robert Gallery is a good LG. Oakland was just stupid.
Eric Steinbach?
Casey Wiegmann (in his prime)?
Marshall Yanda (one of the best RGs in the NFL)?
Baluga (NFL all-rookie team)?
chief Stevie_k - February 17, 2012
I do like this
If we went someone then Osemele in the second round I would be very happy
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
I like Osemele if we are going to man blocking
I have heard the guy doesn’t have the best work ethic though and isn’t the smartest tool in the shed.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
He can work on Jackson
they can play Chess together :)
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
Ha
I heard somebody say that D linemen are the type who tear a fridge apart if they can’t figure out which side opens……and O linemen are the type who’ll sit down and puzzle it back together. I think it was a retired D lineman said that.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
Wouldn't mind Silatolu either.
i got a soft spot for small school guys though.
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
He might be able to play RT
I like that upside
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
Mike Mayock is probably the best television
talking head that there is. His analysis is always first rate and well thought out. DeCastro in the first round would be good. But we do need a right tackle as well.
G.L. - February 16, 2012
People like Zebrie Sanders
Also some of the mid-round prospects aren’t bad. Unfortunately, the FA class at RT is pretty bad, so if we want to upgrade this year it will have to be via the Draft.
Nick Britt - February 16, 2012
Draft tackle class isn't so good, either.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
RT types are okay
once you lose the 1st round luster
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
I don't think there's anyway Lilja is replaced this year.
Pioli will likely get a 2nd or 3rd round guy just like he did with Big Jon and Hudson and let them sit behind a vet for a year. Lilja is getting paid and ranked out as one of the top LGs last year and he’ll probably only be better this year with a center that isn’t a torreador.
GenericBrand - February 16, 2012
At the end of the season, I was absolutely for replacing Lilja.
Lately, I’m starting to come around more to your way of thinking.
Brsrkr - February 16, 2012
Was he ranked as one of the top LGs when we needed short yardage, or on the goal line?
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
Ranked as one of the top overall
You’re nitpicking. There’s no guard in this league that does everything perfectly. And yes a new center will make a huge difference in short yardage and goal line situations.
GenericBrand - February 16, 2012
Its not nitpicking
Its the number one reason many of us want to draft DeCastro, Lilja cannot get that push in short yardage, at all and he has a tendency to get blown off the ball.
A new center will help, but that still leaves us at a deficiency when it come to LG.
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
Sadly outside KC
Weigmann had a good year and Lilja sucked.
Somewhere out there is the answer
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
Really like Zeitler.
Seems like a great fit for this team.
polodude017 - February 16, 2012
I agree
A lunch pail guy like Waters
ChiefWarPaint - February 16, 2012
when is Zeitler expected to go in the draft?
tomachop - February 16, 2012
2nd round
Steve_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
I like Zeitler more in the late second then I do De Castro at 11
GenericBrand - February 16, 2012
Can't help but feel that people expecting DeCastro to the Chiefs are just setting themselves up for disappointment, and a reason to get upset for when the Chiefs don't draft him.
KC_Chiefs - February 16, 2012
+Curry
GenericBrand - February 16, 2012
like RG III?
chief Stevie_k - February 17, 2012
I see us draftind down to get picks
that will probably knock us out of contention for DeCastro.
tomachop - February 16, 2012
should get good value if Trent is still on the board
tomachop - February 16, 2012
I am hoping they can trade down to the 20-25 pick. Cleveland has the 22nd pick.
That should be able to get us an extra 2nd rd. pick or early 3rd and 5th in the draft. With the two picks in the second rd I can see them grabbing OT Sanders or Massey, G Glenn or G Zeiter, or C Kontz or Ben Jones.
The first rd pick is the puzzle. I wouldn’t mind a Hightower or Burfict.
Mustang fever - February 17, 2012
Glenn and Konz could easily go in the first this year.
Brsrkr - February 17, 2012
they could, for sure
I would be happy with Sanders, Massie, Zeiter, Konz, Jones…
but, I wouldn’t be happy with an ILB in round 1
stagdsp - February 17, 2012
Agree. Sigh.
Sigh, because I really like Hightower. But I recognize there’s more value to our team by using that pick elsewhere. dangit.
Brsrkr - February 17, 2012
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