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The Chiefs And The Tight End Position

I always look at the Super Bowl teams and figure out what the Kansas City Chiefs can take from them so that they can be playing in the Super Bowl. We've talked about some of the things both the New York Giants and New England Patriots do well (not to mention those quarterbacks) but there's one area I wanted to look at -- the tight ends.

The Patriots, as you know, have those freak tight ends Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. Since this is a copy-cat league, you know someone will try to take what they've done and copy it.

The Chiefs are halfway there with Tony Moeaki if they wanted to create a dual tight end threat. He's athletic and fast enough to cause problems in the middle of the field like those Patriots tight ends do.

So my question to you: Would you approve of drafting a tight end in, let's say, the second round? Is that too high? Other pressing needs? I can't say I know a whole lot about this year's crop of tight ends -- there's only one Rob Gronkowski, anyway -- but that doesn't really matter. This question is really about the idea in general of utilizing two tight ends like the Pats do. Is that something the Chiefs should consider?

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Comments

I would approve of a TE in the 1st or 2nd round

no Question.

Yes, they need to address the OL, but getting another stud TE would REALLY help the offense, and YES, I’d be happy to see the Chiefs use them as NE does

so...

taking Decastro/Allen or Martin(or Reiff) / Fleener would be a fantastic start to the draft

I like Fleener a lot

Don’t think he lasts until our pick in the 2nd.

He is an option if we trade down in the 1st.

doubt Dwayne Allen drops to our second, but ...

DeCastro, Dwayne Allen, Antonio Allen as our first three picks … hell yeah, wouldn’t care who they got after those three guys

Love Fleener

But I think Allen is more complete. I wouldn’t be opposed to TWO good TEs in this draft, one like Allen/Fleener that will see a lot of snaps, but also one that gives us a better option than Leonard Slow-as-Shit Pope and the Goon Squad that are KC’s current backups. This is for WHEN Moeaki gets hurt again…not if.

Love it

That’s who I’ve been mocking, except for Dwayne Allen in the 2nd. I figured he woul be gone by that time, so I put Fleener in there. Would definitely be happy with Allen.

I think Fleener could be there in the second.

Honestly don’t know if I’d take him there though, he’s not much of a blocker. They could use someone who is a little bigger and a better blocker. Allen would be a better fit and I’d be thrilled if he was there in the second.

hear good things about Orson Charles, too
yeah, i could see him being the pick, actually
Tony G wasn't a good blocker when we drafted him

and he ended up being pretty decent

True, I actually remember him playing like a fullback/H-back later in his career.

He really evolved as a blocker as his career went on.

I don't know about that.

The knock on Moeaki’s blocking has always been that he’s a decent technical blocker, but doesn’t really move anyone in the run-game. I’ve heard him described as a “shield blocker”, which is a pretty good description. I don’t think that’s really changed from what I read pre-draft on him.

From what I’ve heard on Fleener he shows good effort in blocking, he’s just not great at it. I’d rather get Allen personally, but that’s just my opinion. Think he’d be a better complement to Moeaki.

Said Tony G not TMo
Ah sorry, missed that.

Though I don’t think Tony G was ever much of a blocker either. Honestly, I think he might have been worse than Moeaki. He showed good effort, but he wasn’t very good. Not terrible, but not good.

The Chiefs absolutely need another TE

not only to run sets with two TEs, but they also need a dependable backup to Tony Mo. Second round might be too high, though. I think they’ll be looking in the third or fourth. Paulson, Koger, or Egnew could all be candidates for a fourth round pick.

I think KC needs two

Cause Moeaki will not stay healthy…ever.

You mean..

Like he did the entire 2010 season?

True, I think his injury bugaboos might be a little overhyped.

But the guy was perpetually injured in college, and now has missed half more than half his games as a pro. And I think this year exposed tight end as a position where we’re seriously lacking depth. Leonard Pope would be an excellent #3, but he’s an iffy #2, a well below average #1, and we have no one worthwhile behind him.

I don't know about overhyped

I do know that, based on his injury history, I’d feel better if we had a quality backup behind him. Pope is fine as a 3rd string TE, but not quality enough to be the #2.

he wasn't healthy the whole 2010...

some guy violently knocked him out…definitely his fault

Who are the Top TE's

Like I understand that you have blocking TE’s and Pass Catching TE’s, but who are the best in the draft right now? and where do they fall as in projected rounds?

so we'd be okay with an early TE

but we turn our heads in disgust to the thought of an early RB?

To me, an early stud back seems to be more vital to a sup-par-quarterback-run offense.

I think the fact that the FA RB class is deep this year

Makes it a little less undesirable. Also the shelf life for a RB is roughly 2/3 that of a stud TE.

And our season shelf life w/o JC is shorter than a fish sold at the market.
the FA TE class is pretty strong also
Because it's easier to find a good RB late than a TE.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but you don’t find athletic TE’s who can block in the later rounds.

For argument sake, I'll disagree with this (with cause)

I don’t think the reason late round RB’s are flourshing is because they have any more talent than they ever have. I think it’s more of two factors:

1) Teams are building small, quick teams that can cover in a pass-happy NFL. The big bodies at LB and Saftey are becoming less utilized, and RB’s are taking advantage

2) The “new/reused” approach of RB by commitee allows teams to utilize these backs in a much more focused manner. Instead of being work horses, RB’s are being used as situational relief pitchers that get to maximize their skill set more effectively.

But I still agree, if I had to choose, get a TE early and go fishing for a RB late.

Depends... I'd rather see a new QB before we draft the #5 or #6 option on offence
  1. Charles
  2. Bowe
  3. Baldwin or Breaston
  4. Moeki
  5. TE#2……… seems high to draft this guy in the 2nd rd with current stable of QBs on the roster

Chiefs need another TE but rd 2 is too high, maybe rd 4. I’d rather sign Nicks as a FA to play LG and trade 1st, 2rd, and next year’s 1st to move up to draft RG3

Nicks is not getting out of New Orleans

Primarily because he doesn’t want to.

NO might not be able to afford to keep him
They'll get it done, if somebody is leaving due to a fund squeeze, it'll be Colston
agreed
Pioli should have picked Gronkowski...instead of McCluster.
a lot of good TEs in that draft

Jimmy Graham didn’t go until rd 4 I think…Definitely after Moeki and Hernandez went around the same time

Yea

We definItely draft McCluster too high. I’m not hating on McCluster, but for that draft class his ability hasn’t justified his draft position.

You could go through the whole draft and list guys they should have taken over McCluster and Arenas.

I didn’t like either pick at the time, but what’s done is done.

On the other hand - if Belichick had picked McCluster he would be a TD machine by now.
Probably true.

Though I think that’s more a function of Mr. Brady than Belichik.

If KC had taken Gronk or Jimmy Graham, I’m sure they wouldn’t be even close to the level they have achieved with their respective teams.

True enough

QB’s like Brady and Brees do have that ability to make a player look good, huh?

Hey, maybe the Chiefs should try to get a good QB. Nah!

You act like the Chiefs haven't tried to get a good QB...
When?

And please don’t say Cassel.

Top 12 TE's Here is a good list of some of the best.

1 (43) -7 Clemson
Dwayne Allen
Jr 6’4" 255 #83

2 (55) -3 Stanford
Coby Fleener
Sr 6’6" 250 #82

3 (75) +4 Georgia
Orson Charles
Jr 6’3" 242 #7

4 (93) +4 Missouri
Michael Egnew
Sr 6’5" 242 #82

5 (122) -5 Louisiana-Lafayette
Ladarius Green
Sr 6’6" 230 #89

6 (140) +24 USC
Rhett Ellison
Sr 6’5" 248 #40

7 (153) +52 Michigan
Kevin Koger
Sr 6’4" 256 #86

8 (166) +14 Michigan State
Brian Linthicum
Sr 6’4" 243 #88

9 (176) -24 Oregon
David Paulson
Sr 6’3" 242 #42

10 (185) +5 North Carolina State
George Bryan
Sr 6’5" 267 #84

11 (201) +53 Louisville
Josh Chichester
Sr 6’7" 248 #11

12 (220) -84 LSU
Deangelo Peterson
Sr 6’3" 238 #19

from

here

I would add Reliford to that list as a late round selection.

Put him on the PS and see if he turns into the next Graham.

He was 14 on the list
nice list, btw
thanks it's not mine.
I know, I meant that you found it and tossed it up for this thread ... good job

have a cookie

any of the first 5 on that list would be great
If you look at the Giants though

they go 3 wide with a blocking TE who can somewhat catch in Ballard or Pascoe.

I think to do what NE is doing though is we get a TE who would be a main receiving threat. Gronk can run block and catch which is what TMo does, but we don’t have the other TE who can line up anywhere like Hernandez and create mismatches on anyone.

Plus the Chiefs need insurance in case Moeaki goes down again...

That is why I wanted Todd Heap in the offseason last year, but oh well.

I’m not sure I want the Chiefs to select a TE in their current draft slots, but if they trade down with Chicago or someone for more picks, then I can see using the extra pick on a high quality TE that can block for Jamaal.

Moeaki is a decent blocker, but he's nothing close to Gronkowski.

Gronkowski is also much bigger than Moeaki. I think Tony is a lot closer to Hernandez than he is to Gronk.

Actually, when you really watch Gronk he's not a dominating blocker or anything.

He’s big and strong, but he whiffs on a lot of blocks.

True, he's not the best technical blocker, but he does move people much better in the run game than Moeaki does.
His knock is that he always goes for the big hit.

He doesn’t lock up and really drive. He tries to lower his shoulder and destroy someone, causing him to miss.

saaaaaaa-wwwinnnnnnnngggg baaaaaaaaaaaaaaattterrrrrrrr
Not saying Gronk and TMo are equal skill set for skill set

I’m saying their roles are the same. If it’s a run play, more likely Gronk will be in there instead of Hernandez like TMo is.

Well obviously, Moeaki is really KC's only decent TE.

If they had a better blocking TE, I’m sure that wouldn’t always be the case.

Moeaki did have quit a few blocks to help get JC those long runs
he was HUGE for JC

I would put Moeaki up against almost any TE

Dude Moeaki was a pretty damn good blocker last year.

Especially for a rookie. He got more than one ESPN spot talking about his role blocking for us.

absolutely
Draft a TE? Sure

1st or 2nd round? No.

I would rather wait until the 4th or 5th round and get Egnew than draft someone like Fleener with the second pick.

I like Egnew in the 4th. But could see him going in the 3rd if there is a run on TEs.
I'd be okay getting another TE to pair with Moeaki.

But I’d rather have a speedy wideout. Someone that can stretch the field.

What is wrong with the three bad ass receivers that we already have?

If we do get another speedy receiver, he better be able to play gunner at a high level.

Is there anyone in the draft like that?

i have been mocking Wylie in the 6th/7th

Slot guy w 4.3 speed

I don't really want a TE that high this year

With Charles, Bowe, Baldwin, Moeaki, and Breaston on offense already, In think we just need another backup RB and maybe another shot at a latet round QB.

Too many holes on OL and need a NT, ILB and others we need to be taking a little higher. I am cool with a TE in some later rounds, but I think the other positions are more of a necessity early.

I said this last year like a 100 times.

I really wanted Zach Miller but obviously that wasn’t going to happen. Another FA TE or drafting one would have really helped with ToMo going down. We need a good #2 TE considering his injury issues. Everyone wanted to bring in all these WRs but they forget our QB sucks weiners for breakfast and can’t throw to wideouts not named Bowe. I miss the days of Gonzalez /Dunn. Time to bring in another solid TE that can catch well enough, but more importantly blow up holes for JC and help the tackles in pass blocking. I’m cool with a 2nd or 3rd round TE.

Which is why I want Allen. One of the best blocking TE prospects in a while (sometimes ranked as the best since Jim Kleinsasser)

And is a great receiver as well.

I would absolutely love that pick.

And I think Pioli will totally pick him up if he falls to us in the 2nd (which I have my doubts). But that would be legit.

I think the TE from Sea is a FA this offseson

might be worth a look if he makes it back from surgery OK

Miller?
No, John Carlson

will be an UFA… caught 50+ passes his first two seasons, hurt all of last year I think. They signed Z. Miller to a multi-year deal before the start of this season

That's what I thought.

Seems risky having two injury prone TEs… but I wouldn’t be mad with any attempt to upgrade the position.

good point, but he played all 16 games his first two seasons and 15 in season 3

missed all of last season so if he’s fully healthy from the injury last year, I wouldn’t classify him in the same category as Moeki who misses games every year

I don't remember Moeaki

missing any games in 2010

I think he missed 1 due to a concussion
yup, occurred on the on-side kick attempt vs Denver?
according to stats he missed one

and numerous games druing his college career, and 16 games last season…. he had the “injury prone” label entering the draft and hasn’t done anything to disspell that label to this point

Concussions and torn ACL's aren't natural injuries though
True, but concussions have accumulative effects the more you have

Footballs ’ a contact sport and the more contact the more Moeaki is susceptible to an injury by studying past results

Tearing an ACL and receiving a concusion

do not show me the guy is injury prone. It’s not like his bones are breaking every time he takes a hit. After his rookie year, many around here dispelled the injury myth for Tony M. Then the guy has a freak injury and now he’s the glass man and a bust. The wind changes direction far too much around here.

No one is saying he's a bust

But to raise concerns over injury issues (freak injuries or not) is legitimate. It is a fact that he was nicked up all the time in college, missed a game in year one and missed an entire season in year two. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding the injury or even the injury itself, the issue becomes time not spent on the field. There is nothing wrong with having quality backups in line to take his spot when he’s injured again.

I guess my issue is...

People who claim that he cannot stay healthy because of past injuries. The guy could go on to start the next 100 games of his career without injury. Gronkowski missed his entire senior year of college, and games in other years. Yet people criticize Pioli for taking the “injury prone” Moeaki and passing on the Gronz earlier in the draft.

I hear what you're saying

But it was literally every year of college with an injury of some sort or another. And his NFL career is already full of a LOT of missed time. That is what tags him as injury prone.

I agree, if he goes on for the rest of his career with no more big injuries he can shake that moniker.

The injury prone tag comes from when he was in college and was injured all the time
To me, he looks like a classic case of an injury prone athlete.

His physique looks a little sloppy. I’ll bet that he’s been so athletic his whole life, that he never felt the need to work in the gym much. And that does affect your ability to withstand mechanical injuries like ACL tears and broken wrists.

no but this does

2009: Missed three games due to an ankle injury.

2008: Limited to nine games due to nagging injuries, including a concussion, hamstring injury and recovery from a fractured foot.

2007: Received a medical redshirt following four games due to a broken wrist dislocated elbow.

Gotta go Dwayne Allen, hopefully the second round.

2x the blocker that Fleener is, and not too much of a drop off in receiving. He’s a physical runner after the catch, too. He’s like Gronk 2.0.
But if Allen’s already taken, Fleener’s good too.

yes

that’s what I remember about DA from watching some highlights. He is a smooth downhill physical runner.

He's not Gronk 2.0
No one in this draft is

Gronk is a once every so often type of player.

Alright, well he's as close as we're gonna get.
In this draft, yes.
I want a tightend that can block.
We'd be better off (now and future)

spending FA $ and draft picks finishing off our Oline and secondary depth as well as someone to actually compliment JC.

I still think we shouldve taken Rudolph over Baldwin last year.

So i would be ok with another TE drafted fairly early.

I still think we should have taken the Saints rd 1 in 2012 and rd 2 last year instead of Baldwin and drafted Torrey Smith with the Saints rd 2 pick

then we’d have an extra 1st this year to trade up for a QB and have a vertical threat WR that someone requested above insted of a TE.

I’m sure someone is going to say it;s easy to say that now, but I was dumbfounded during the draft when they passed up that trade offer and then ran to the podium to annouce Baldwin’s name

Would have rather had Cobb than Smith
Cobb would have been another good option
I think a big-target WR is much more valuable to Cassel than a smaller speedy WR.

Not trying to knock Cassel, just looking at the guy’s past performance.

I've been talking about this since the Pats started running all these two TE sets last year.

It’s a brilliant way to create mismatches. I wouldn’t force it, but if Allen fell to round 2, I would definitely consider it. Could also look at a guy like Ladarius Green a little later. He needs to add bulk and isn’t much of a blocker yet, but he’s athletic and lengthy.

Don't focus on TE, focus on creating difficult matchups

Whether it’s a WR, TE, or whatever the key to the Patriots success with their TEs has been creating a good matchup. If a player is too fast to be covered by a LB and to big or strong to be covered by a DB then you’re in business regardless of what position they play.

That's what people are missing.

We have those guys on the roster already. It doesn’t have to be from the tight end position.

It all circles back to having a QB that can recognize and take advantage of the mismatch
It all circles back to having a QB
That's why I think Pioli will wait until round 3 or 4 to look for a TE

We need a TE to backup Tony Mo and give us more flexibility in offensive formations. A fourth round pick sounds right for that role.

As long as Tony Gonzalez is still playing

I’ll be pissed if we use a high pick on a TE. Just me personally.

I believe he may have signed an extension with Atlanta already
I'm not hinting at bringing him back

I’m implying that I’d be pissed to use a high pick on a TE when we gave him away. Had we kept him, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. And as much as I like Arenas (who we got with Atlanta’s pick), I’d rather have Tony G. still.

They didn't give him away, he wanted to leave

Best of luck to him and all that, but this was not KC dumping TG like a piece of garbage. No revisionist history.

It won't matter if we have 2 great TE's

If we have Matt Cassel trying to get them the ball. Its like Having a Super Shiny bad ass car with no Motor.

luckily if Sunders is hired he can help explain this to Pioli

He witnessed first hand the struggles Cassel had when the D-line pushed the pocket in on Cassel. Doesn’t help that he migrates to the pressure naturally

Sunders-Saunders
Absolutely grab a te in the 2nd.

If allen falls to us in the 2nd pull the trigger. Our needs are not that pressing that we couldnt draft value there instead of need if we get decastro in the 1st. If hes not there trade back a few slots get fleener and pick up an extra 3rd. Than grab best ot and best rb.

Yes

We do need another TE in a bad way. If we had a pair of those kinds of outlets for a guy like Cassel, I think we’d really see his numbers go through the roof. Not to mention, if we run two TE sets, even if they’re OK blockers, our running game could be friggin scary. We could play more of a short passing game and with the WR’s we do have YAC is already a strong suit.

I agree.

The only problem with that is if cassels numbers go through the roof hes gonna stick around longer which we dont want. We do need another stud te to pair with moeaki tho.

Trust me

I’d love to see Cassel go if he’s replaced by somebody good. The bummer IMO is that he’s here at least through next season. With that in mind, I would like to see a TE.

With that in mind, I would like to see a TE

wouldn’t we all

Yes we would all like to see that.

Get a new stud te to pair with moeaki and get an even better qb throwing it to him.

we're only halfway to the Patriots' combo

if Tony RockyHorror is actually playing. He does seem to be injury prone

I wouldn't mind 2nd round but I'd prefer the 3rd round
Yeah me to.

Id rather get ta’amu in the 2nd and fleener in the 3rd but because of the patriots’ success te’s and gonna get drafted earlier this year.

No, 2nd round isn't too high, as long as Moeaki continues to be injury-prone

Pope is serviceable, but at some point in time the team has to move beyond O’Connell and Becht.

I like Fleener in the 2nd

We might even be able to trade down and get him. He is sized a lot like Gronkowski but I think the surprising thing that people will see is his speed.

Many people think Fleener is the second fastest guy on Stanford’s roster and is deceptively fast. With that in combination of a 6’6" target he’s going to be the next Gronkowski. IMO anyway.

dont forget about evan rodrigez
Any chance

We could get a decent TE in free agency?

1. Jermichael Finley
2. John Carlson
3. Fred Davis
4. Jacob Tamme
5. Martellus Bennett
6. Kellen Davis

Or do you think these guys would be too expensive?

If we get Peyton

we should sign up Tamme…those guys had great chemistry in 2010. Helped me win a fantasy league….

You left off, in no particular order

Joel Dressen
Jim Kleinsasser
Marcedes Lewis
Evan Moore
Greg Olsen
Bo Scaife
Visanthe Shiancoe

No clue how this happened, but this is the deepest TE FA class ever

No. Only if we've given up on Moeaki or Baldwin, or if Bowe leaves.

Don’t spend a second round pick for insurance/complement to a third round pick (Moeaki).

Plus, I personally don’t really like this year’s tight end class as far as the “top level” talent.

And, Pioli’s known as a TE enthusiast. He should/better be able to find a decent one after round 2.

sad thing is

We could have had both Hernandez and Gronk. But we took McCluster and traded for fragile Tony instead. I was furious when we passed on hernandez so it hurts to watch him tear the league up like he has

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