Arrowhead Pride

Yeah...A Toe Tag...

KCChef - February 20, 2012 reply

Carr!

Who needs a poll anyways?

joplin chiefs fan - February 20, 2012 reply

"Poll, we don't need no steenking poll!"

G.L. - February 20, 2012 reply

One of the two is getting it for sure and I'm starting to think it doesn't really matter which

Because they’re both replaceable in free agency as the FA pool at both positions is pretty deep.

GenericBrand - February 20, 2012 reply

Agree CB is deep

But what WR could replace Bowe? I think even Colston is a big downgrade…

The Other Patrick Allen - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

Jackson?

I would be okay with that

Although I think we’ll regret it when Bowe blows up with a real QB throwing to him

The Other Patrick Allen - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

He is a mini T.O.

He would destroy the inside of the locker room

VJax from the Chargers

Not Djax from Philly

we know

Vjax really is not a mini T.O.

That’s Djax

Ok, I would go for that then

Jackson is used to a real QB that can get him the ball

Bowe has never had a good QB throw to him and accepts the way things are. You put a guy like Jackson on a team with Cassel throwing to him and he’ll either freak out or we’ll find out that he’s really not that great.

Berry and Charles and Hali are replaceable, too ... just not anyone as good

same with Bowe and Carr … both are VERY highly rated at their position

just because someone else is out there, and cheaper, doesn’t mean they’re nearly as good … we’re a team that’s beginning to hit peak with some EXCELLENT home grown talent, some of the BEST talent … let’s KEEP the talent here instead of allowing these guys to walk and the team being below average again

I’d love to see the Chiefs win more games, hit the playoffs, etc … can’t do that with lesser talent … Bowe and Carr are KEEPERS

AnkenyChiefsFan - February 20, 2012 reply

Doesn't matter which one gets it

As long as both are in Chiefs uniforms this season is the only thing that matters.

excidium - February 20, 2012 reply

I'm excited. Ready for FA to begin.

I have a feeling the Chiefs are actually going to make some noise. First time I’ve felt this way in…well….ever.

GetRight - February 20, 2012 reply

Orton?

bossmanham - February 20, 2012 reply

For between

$14 and 15 Mill per year? I’d rather take my chances with Cassel. By all means, sign Orton if he’ll come here for $7 mil or so, but not $14 mil….

Or give him

an incentive-laden contract, but not that much up front.

AnkenyChiefsFan - February 20, 2012 reply

the amounts of the franchise and transition tags at each position from the previous five seasons will be added up and divided by the sum of the salary caps from the previous five seasons

except for the uncapped year where it will be 50% of the national GDP divided by the unemployment index and then multiplied by the owners marginal tax rate, then using X to the third power each team will be allowed to subtract the amount of all candy sales if the number of candy wrappers found in hallways exceedes half the number of employees.

Please, who comes up with these mind twisting formulas and legal verbage in these CBA’s? It’s no wonder Pioli can’t pull the trigger in FA, he’s still trying to figure out the rules!

BCRavenJHawkfan - February 20, 2012 reply

The Chiefs need to do the following for me to be happy

Sign/Tag Bowe
Sign/Tag Carr
Sign Soliai
Sign Nicks
Sign/Draft (late rounds) big RB

You will not be happy

There's a chance

We have so much money to spend.
Only way I see us not getting Nicks is if Brees sits him down and asks him to take less money to stay on the team and go for another SB run.

Brad, would also require Brees to take less money, a la Manning

I think it gets done, though

I thought Manning had a $100 million contract or something close to that

that’s why they sucked so bad on defense except Freeny and Mathis

part of all that was building a team to protect a lead ... stop the passing game of ther teams

they were less concerned with stopping the running game, because with Manning they almost always had a lead, that means other teams would have to pass and pass and pass … stop the pass and you have a much better chance of winning, and they did just that: playoffs year after year after year

but it wasn’t Manning’s contract, rather it was a commitment to just a couple of guys on the DLine and a VERY strong Secondary with not much thought or worry put into the LB group or the rest of the DLine … again, it was DESIGNED to stop the passing attack of other teams

I don't see us spending 50+ mil on Nicks

Could be tagged in NO until they work out a longer deal

He will not be happy

because ultimately, #7 is still running in under center every play.

That was not one of the things needed to make Brad happy

Brad likes Cassel!

Ideally

we’d trade up for RG3

who won't be "ready" for a few years, by which time some of our best players will be getting old (in football years)

… not to mention that the cost of trading up to get him still leaves us with some holes to fill, and w/o top draft picks to fill them with for a couple of years (see: Raiders, Oakland)

I disagree

I think RG3 could either start this year…. or definitely next year. I mean… do you not think he can hand the ball off just as good as Cassel? Do you not think he can check down to his 3rd target and throw the ball for 5-10 yards as good as Cassel? RG3 is smart…at WORST he could play at Cassel’s level right away…the upside is ridiculous though.

There would be some question about RGIII being able to read pro defenses right away. A lot of what I’ve read says Baylor’s passing game was pre-determined as far as where the ball would be thrown.

He's smart enough to learn that

In the mean time… he can do no worse than what Cassel provides for us game in game out.

No, he read defenses after the snap

A lot of the audibles before snap were made from the sidelines. A lot want to hold that against him, yet most college systems are that way

Thanks for the clarification

Luck is one of the very very VERY few college QBs who made so many calls/reads

If RGIII was in the last QB class, or even next years.. people wouldn’t be putting it as such a big negative against him. However when you are the other top QB prospect.. it really comes into play.

Stanzi can match Cassel

and he can scramble a lot better too. Quick feet, better arm, more to prove. I vote the young kid with the clipboard.

Says the guy from Iowa :)

haha

well I was born and raised in the KC area. I currently live North, like 3.5 hrs North. :)

ALSO

they majority of our talent is 26 or younger…

So..

Let’s not get a young QB to build around now.. cause he might not be ready NOW.

Instead lets go with meh older QBs and let the window close on the core talent we have now.. just to have to find a new QB and possible new core players in the future?

What kind of logic is that up

Also

I think this is going to be the highest draft pick we have for the next 5 years and we have most of our skill position players in place. It’s the perfect time to dump some draft picks for a franchise QB.

Both these players need to remain Chiefs.

G.L. - February 20, 2012 reply

Can both tags be used or just one

and what is the difference (other than the pay) if only one can be used

Clark Hunt: "It's only going to cost me 2.7 mil to tag Colquitt? Where do I sign"

Hmm I always forget about the transition tag.

Franchise Carr
Transition tag Bowe

Work out a long term deal with both. Match an offer on Bowe

Jonathan Hake - February 20, 2012 reply

there ya go

no reason to lose either of these guys

You can ony use one per year

Brady_Rendzia - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

Plus the transition tag only guarantees right of first refusal.

I don’t think we’re going to lose Carr or Bowe because they desperately want to be somewhere else, if we lose one of them it’s going to be because somebody gives than an offer Pioli won’t match. The transition tag wouldn’t change that.

Either way, though, you can only use one or the other, not both, so it’s all academic.

MtHammer - February 20, 2012 reply

I honest can't wait until camp...

I mean, FA and the draft are important too. BUT if Pioli does what he says in having compettion for Cassel’s job this summer it will actually set the pace for how our season will actually be. I’d love to see Orton or Stanzi win it out (if we don’t draft/sign any other QB’s this off season.) Orton < Stanzi < Cassel

Your formula says that Cassel is the best and Orton is the worst in that group

It's still early in the morning, give Gary a break

In a mathematical formula kind of way

then yes.. I was going for the arrow points to the ‘better’ :)
sorry for the early morning mistake.

remember too that we'd still need to re-sign Orton ... he's Free Agent along with Carr, Bowe, McClain, etc

I’d love to see Orton or Stanzi win it out (if we don’t draft/sign any other QB’s this off season)

good point

Hopefully Romeo has some leverage on Orton and Orton enjoyed his stay here in KC enough to make him stay in Red and White.

1. Orton
2. Stanzi
3. Cassel

Gotcha

Using it as an arrow instead of less than/greater than

im so tired of the orton talk

Orton is not that great. He is much better at going thru progressions, and has a stronger arm, and is slightly more accurate. But he makes bad decisions that result in turnovers. Matt Cassel doesnt turn it over very much. I dont see a huge upgrade in orton. Also, people dont realize that orton is unrestricted. He is going to get a paycheck that i doubt kansas city pays. And i couldnt even fathom that he would want to sign with a team that has thier starting qb already on the schedule. So what, he throws 3 picks and has to worry that he is going to get benched? He will want a contract with 4-5 years and some good cash and no other qb to worry about.

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

Cleveland maybe?

depending on their draft choice. Too bad they are worse than most of the NFL teams.

cleveland, washington, seattle

All of those tteams have terrible qb play. He should be able to walk into any one of those places and easily be the clear cut starter. Plus all of them would pay.

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

Of those 3 I think Orton would go to Seattle

The 49ers are the only team you have to really worry about in that division. In Cleveland he would get beat up by the Ravens and the Steelers every year. In Washington he will be doing that dance with Grossman again and Shanny changes QB’s as often as GaGa changes her hair

Orton doesnt turn it over much either this has already been down by quite a few people on several different occasions

You are tired of the Orton talk but actually not paying attention to whats being discussed

Willie Beamon - February 20, 2012 reply

I think he was trying to say

“just don’t use a cell phone on AP.”

Tarkus - February 20, 2012 reply

Maybe his fingers has a stuttering problem

nice play

Yep i have a condition called fat fingeritis.

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

nice play

Yep i have a condition called fat fingeritis.

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

+1

Sorry

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

fail!

I just dont agree. Compare stats.
Qb # 1 2008 18td 12 int
2009 21td 12 int
2010 10td 9 int
2011 9td 9 int
Qb# 2 2008 21td 11int
2009 16td 16int
2010 27td 7 int
2011 10td 9 int

Qb1 is orton and over the last 4 years has thrown 1.6125 td per interception on average.
Qb2 is cassel who throws for 1.96 td per int.

Orton has a career qb rating of 79.4 and cassel is 82.5. Why do you want orton again?

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

To be fair

Orton has always been the most talented person on offense except in Denver and Cassel has had way more talent around him to help him.

not always

Orton had brandon marshal and brandon lloyd. Not really bad tallent in my opinion.

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

That's where the except in Denver part came in

oh, good call:-)

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 reply

Cassel plays more of the safe plays

or he just doesn’t want to risk the throw down field. He probably thinks that those 5-10 yd passes are all we really need. Anything over 20 yds is too big of a risk and he might be afraid of being picked off since he knows he’s not that accurate over the first down marker..

I guess I wouldn't really say 'safe'

its more of his comfort zone.

Again 3 % points and 2/3 more picks year is not big difference when you consider one was counted on try and carry the offense and one was counted to manage the game

Orton took chances and pushed the ball downfield because he didnt have luxury of a all pro RB or a stout defense .

What Matt is doing now is basically what Orton was doing with the Bears but when Orton arrived in Denver he was pushed by that McDaniel guy to expand his game and become a better player.

Matts never been asked to do the same and thats what Pioli is pushing for now the problem Matts already got his money and backing whereas Orton is still fighting to get the same .

Willie Beamon - February 20, 2012 reply

i can see your point, but disagree

for me i just dont see that orton is worth paying 2 qbs. I am not saying cassel is better. I am saying that they are both comparable in numbers, and i dont see it as an upgrade.

fleetmarine - February 20, 2012 via mobile reply

Looking forward to seeing

what happens with the Tags and Free Agent signings. Should give us a more clear picture heading into the draft. After FA period, there should be a few less QB needy teams. We should see precisely what the market is for RG3.