Arrowhead Pride

Potentially, yes.

MtHammer - February 21, 2012 reply

It’s all about parity in the NFL (take note, other pro leagues) and this gives draft picks to the teams that are losing free agents.

Yet the MLB has more parity.
/just saying

Parity?

The Yankees have won almost 30 championships. The next closest team is the Cardinals with 8 (I think). You call that parity?

joplin chiefs fan - February 21, 2012 via mobile reply

I'm talking over the last 10 years or so.

You have to go back to 2003 to get an AFC team not named the Pats, Colts or Steelers in the Super Bowl

joplin chiefs fan - February 21, 2012 reply

Wouldn't it be nice if we were the team to change that?

PVChiefsfan - February 21, 2012 reply

But over the last 10 years, there has been a different team representing the NFC every year until this year.

Chiefs447 - February 21, 2012 reply

True enough

but the difference between a team like the Chiefs that hasn’t won a playoff game in 20 years and a team like the Pats isn’t nearly as big as the difference between a team like the Pirates and a team like the Yankees.

and I just saw your comment below

and I’ve decided it applies to me, too lol

joplin chiefs fan - February 21, 2012 reply

Cards have 11 Championships

not to be picky. I agree with your point. Baseball has some of the least parity.

Chief TigerGator - February 21, 2012 reply

parity

Cardinals have 11

mnelson52 - February 23, 2012 reply

you forgot your /sarcasm font

JHWK - February 21, 2012 reply

Ummm MLB has comp picks.

In the old CBA, a team losing a type A free-agent was given the signing team’s first round pick (provided it was not in the top half of the round, their second round pick was gifted if it was) and a “sandwich” pick (a pick that fell between the first and second rounds). A team losing a type B FA was given only a sandwich pick.

The new CBA has changed this somewhat (fewer players now qualify and the player rating is now determined by the market as opposed to some computer-based system), but it’s still there.

Ok, but not my point

And I wasn’t that clear. As of late a wider variety of teams have won the World Series than the Super Bowl.

Yeah didn't necessarily mean to point that towards you.

Because Joel did say above that “other pro leagues” should “take note”.

Another Successful Tedford QB - February 21, 2012 reply

Depends on definition of parity.

In the NFL, every team believe they have a legit shot at the post season on opening day. Not so in Base/Basketball.

NJ Chiefs Fan - February 21, 2012 reply

NFL has best parity top-bottom.

MLB has some parity among top 10 teams. Everyone else is out by July. Not really my definition of parity. I also think that, because of parity, coaching is more critical in the NFL. Take Belicheck and put him in Jacksonville and they have a chance to compete almost immediately. Put Tony LaRussa in Washington and they still have no chance.

BinSC - February 21, 2012 reply

I argue the PGA Tour has the best parity top to bottom.

I will be totally pissed if their plan of attack is compensatory picks.

Sure, let’s lose Carr and Orton so next year we can get a 3rd round pick (at best). That plan isn’t going to sell tickets, and it isn’t going to make this team any better. The time to make a move is now. The Chiefs defense is entering it’s prime and Jamaal isn’t getting any younger.

Clark and Pioli are fools if they don’t make a hard push to sign players this FA that can help the team make a push in the playoffs.

I highly doubt that's the plan.

But if they miss out on guys they wanted, it’s a nice fallback.

There's no excuse to miss out on guys they want.

Other teams over inflate their value?

All of them though?

I can see one or two players being over inflated, like Desean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, etc., but all of them? Nah. Plus I doubt Pioli will be targeting a lot of guys that will be worthy of an over inflated price tag.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have a limit for what he's willing to spend on a certain player.

He’s not going to break the bank for a second tier NT if the market inflates the value.

And I'm not saying he has to.

We’ve seen him be active in getting valuable guys like Gregg, Breaston, Jones, etc. I’m fine with acquisitions like that. But we need to see a lot of them made. I just want to see them being active in FA this year, not sitting back because they’re ok with saving money and getting compensatory picks.

I'm still fuzzy on this comp pick thing (which I'm sure most are).

Does ANY FA count against this? Based on the info below, they do. Which means the NFL should probably take notes on how the MLB does it. Signing Kelly Gregg should not cancel out losing a top FA like Carr.

That I don't know.

It’s a jacked up formula, from what I do know. And I agree a Gregg isn’t worth a Carr, but a Pouha might be.

Pouha would be nice, but he was a bad example,

I was thinking of Soliai.

Another Successful Tedford QB - February 21, 2012 reply

Desean Jackson is undervalued, not overvalued. Most electric player in the league.

Sign and trade Bowe for MeSean, straight up

Actually, fuck that

MeSean deserve better than a backup TE throwing to him

Another Successful Tedford QB - February 21, 2012 reply

Bowe is a beast. One of my all time favorite Chiefs. Mesean run routes that are more than 10 yards past the LOS, so not much use for him in KC.

Bowe > MeSean

And it’s not that close.

See how MeSean does with horrible QB play. Dude vanishes for long stretches as it is.

Another Successful Tedford QB - February 21, 2012 reply

Different types of receivers. I’d probably take Bowe over THA1 if they were the same age and same cost. But Mesean affects field position a lot more than Bowe.

And I’m not sure which one you are talking about with the “vanishes for long stretches” comment. Both do that, but not nearly as much as AP blames them for.

Also, THA1 put up numbers with Vince freakin’ Young.

I’d take Vince Young or Dennis Dixon over Cassel

Another Successful Tedford QB - February 21, 2012 reply

Please, Vince Young is a head case

Give me same-guy-every-day Cassel over boo-birds-make-me-suicidal Young

ArrowSpread - February 21, 2012 reply

idiot

shaytron - February 21, 2012 reply

OH SHIT!!!!

Someone just got served!!!

Gonna have to bring it harder than that

Shoulda said Dex > LMJ.

He wouldn’t have been able to catch his breath long enough to retort…

Fair argument

And Jackson’s ST contributions can’t be ignored, it’s true.

The ST thing might put him over the edge.

Lets not overdo it..

Michael vick isnt exactly Brees or Rogers.. I think the guy in just now near 10 300 yard passing games for his career..

Because 300 yard passing games are the measure of a good QB...

Who said anything about being a good QB??

Hes a very good QB.. just not a very good passer. Do you just come here to pick fights?

No, but your argument was poor.

You quote his # of 300 yard passing games as evidence that “he’s not exactly Brees or Rogers”.

And the comment you were responding to said...

“See how MeSean does with horrible QB play.”

Because 300 yard passing games are the measure of a good QB...

nice defense argument. Where are you going with that..? You can take your 200 yard passers and I will take my 300 yard passers and we can see what receivers get more yards.

My point is there are MANY better indicators of how good a QB is than 300 yd passing games.

And I really don’t think that’s debatable. It’s an extremely poor argument.

And what about Receivers yards?

He said DeSean has benefited from better QB play. Is Vick better than Cassel? When he’s on the field, yeah. So where’s your argument here?

Im not gonna re-read the comments to you-

figure this out.. Michael Vick doesnt throw for a lot of yards- Desean has had about the same QB play that Bowe has. What do you need passer ratings? They throw for the same yards give or take some in favor of vick. Vick plays in a spread… Cassel’s job is to not turn the ball over. He stated: “See how Mesean does with horrible QB play…” my statement: “Vick is not brees or rogers.” your statement: “because 300 yard passing games matter.” yeah.. in this case i think i might.. now go away terd.

No he's not

But he’s better than anyone Bowe’s had throwing to him.

Another Successful Tedford QB - February 21, 2012 reply

Huard could stroke it. Just couldn’t move and had no o line.

But other than that...

I’d still go with Vick over Huard for opening up opportunities for WR.

Ill agree to that..

I dont know how many game Cassell has thrown for over 300 yards.. i think there was a stat on it in one of the green bay games when kyle orton did it 2 times in 3 games

Did Trent ever throw to him?

And don’t forget Thiggy.

I miss Trent Green

before his head was damaged..

If only our D could have stopped the Colts just once in 2003 :(

Might have just outscored everyone else in the playoffs. Sigh.

I genuinely believe that

I don’t think there was another team in that time that could hang with us, and none that could stop us outright.

Oh what could have been.

But yeah, that offense was nuts. Trent, Tony G, Priest, Kennison, that OL… yeah, that OL. Saunders’ and Vermiel’s genius at work.

Sigh...

It’s a shame Al Saunders is old now. If he wasn’t old, then he could still be good, just like our young, and therefore good due to his age, currect OC is. Cause that’s what I’m suppose to believe right? Too bad Al wasn’t a consultant for the Pats.

Topchief1 - February 21, 2012 reply

Haha thiggy

Say what you will, he made the offense fun for a while.

And I don’t think Bowe had Trent at all. If he did, it was only for the time before his concussion.

Weve had some shitty Quarterbacks with this franchise..

Thanks for reminding me.

Haha sorry

I was joking about Thiggy.

As you know, I refuse to use sarcasm font.

But yeah, it might have been like 1 quarter with Trent before he got his bell rung. I’m too lazy to look it up right now.

I think that's what happened

We missed out on Sean Smith last year because of that.

And I bet there are others we dont hear about that we miss out on. And your statement was an all or nothing statement

There’s no excuse to miss out on guys they want.

There are many good reasons. The player might take a pay cut to go to a better team (Nnamdi). Might go somewhere he has history with oprior coaching staff (Breaston). Or overpay for the player (anyone FA the Raiders signed)

* Shaun Smith

Fortunately we got a better replacement in Gordon.

OK. My bad. You're mostly right here. Let me change my above statement:

There’s no excuse to get worse in the FA period this year. Even if Carr walks, the Chiefs still have tons of cap space to upgrade the team. If the Chiefs are eligible for compensatory picks because Pioli wasn’t able to sign more FAs than he lost, then he needs fired. Might be harsh, I know, but that’s just my opinion.

Nice thing is that comp picks aren't tied to the quality of the players signed.

Like, Routt not canceling out Carr (potentially) because Routt was cut.

Also, conjecture is that salary enters into it. So, if Routt were to count against us, but Carr signs somewhere else for 10 mil, then we still come out ahead in the comp pick formula even if both players perform about the same.

Anyway, my point is that comp picks shouldn’t be used as a yardstick.

Chief's Country - February 21, 2012 reply

All it takes is one other team to inflate each of the guys that we want.

If we target 5 guys in free agency, and 5 different teams each want one of them, then the market can get pretty inflated on all of them really quickly.

misterbrain - February 21, 2012 reply

Pioli said in his most rescent statement to the media

that he still intends on signing Carr. I’m still hopeful that they reach an agreement. Perhaps this is another “Kyle Orton” move – a good player (that the Chiefs could use) who happens to fall in their laps. It may very well be that they make a big move to sign Bowe, and franchise Carr again – or the opposite.

It's not their plan

…but it’s amazing risk management.

I agree.

I’m behind Pioli and the work he’s done here so far, and don’t honestly think they’re going to be idle this FA period. But this is the perfect storm for the Chiefs. I will be pissed if they don’t take advantage of it.

I agree

Who wants a damned comp pick? Getting a comp pick or multiple comps, probably means the Chiefs sat on their hands in free agency, and saved money while they still can instead of taking advantage of their cap room to build a team capable of dominating a weak division this year.

I am still afraid this will happen, but I don’t want it to. I want the Chiefs to start getting their payroll in line with the rest of the league. I want them to address their holes and depth and be a force this year. If the Routte move is the beginning of them doing that, then I am fine with it. If it is the beginning of them keeping their payroll low again, then it sucks.

KHAZAD - February 21, 2012 reply

Potential third round comp pick...

Carr was a fifth round pick. Just sayin.

I think the comp pick has to do with how many snaps/games played and little (if anything) to do with where the player was drafted.

If Carr were to leave (not sure that is going to happen…and I hope it doesn’t), but IF he were to leave, and he starts all 16 games for another team we would have a shot (depending on how the rest of FA shakes out) of getting a 3rd rounder for him.

Now IF we lose Carr (a 5th round pick) and get a 3rd back…that to me is ‘making chicken salad out of chicken sh!t’.

Not matter WHAT happens, at least Pioli & Co. are not having to cut (and getting NOTHING back in return) good/great players to make cap room.

DivineGrace - February 21, 2012 reply

Agreed, my point was about your chicken sentence there, not about the comp formula.

And yeah, I don’t believe the formula has anything to do with original draft position. But I do think it has to do with size of the new contract. So if Carr leaves, then I hope he takes his new team for all they’ve got!

Brsrkr - February 22, 2012 reply

My point is

That the comp picks are based on the net players lost and gained in the free agent period. If we end up getting a comp pick for Carr, it means we didn’t do anything in free agency, because if we do we will gain more players than we lose.

Most of the other potential free agents would be backups if we let them go, (or in a couple of cases, might retire) So I would rather have them sign a couple of starters in the free agent period and forget about the comp pick.

KHAZAD - February 22, 2012 reply

I think it has to do with playing time and new salary, too.

So Carr leaving might not be completely canceled out by a new signing. If we sign a new NT, say, at half of what Carr’s new contract is, then maybe we get a fifth instead of a third. But yeah, nobody knows for sure.

Brsrkr - February 22, 2012 reply

Routt doesn't count.

Mentioned that I saw this somewhere yesterday, thanks for confirming.

burntorangehorn - February 21, 2012 reply

Joel, I believe you're incorrect that Routt does not count for KC

I’m almost positive he does count as a signed UFA for KC, but not as a signed-away (loss) UFA for Oakland. That is, when calculating compensatory picks for KC, Routt will count against the net signed/lost numbers for KC, but won’t benefit Oakland’s signed/lost numbers because they cut him.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I recall the compensatory picks guru AdamJT explaining it on KFFL, where he and I both posted for well over a decade.

I believe Joel is correct.

Per ct17 at Mockingthedraft.com

I again claim no credit for the basis behind this work, as I did nothing original. I shamelessly used AdamJT13’s publicly posted guidelines as best as I could. You can find his work at adamjt13.blogspot.com. Unfortunately it looks like he has abandoned his research. If you are unfamiliar with his work, the basics that affect comp picks are:

1. Players that are cut or not tendered as RFAs and ERFAs are not counted.

2. Players earning minimum salaries do not count.

3. Each player signed cancels out one player lost.

4. The round of the pick awarded is primarily determined by the annual value of the contract signed. Signed players cancel out lost players with equal contracts, then lower contracts, before canceling out higher contracts.

ICTChief - February 21, 2012 reply

The Chiefs didn't cut anyone

The Raiders cut the dude so he is not counted for them. We signed a Route as a player so he will cancel out a player lost.

But

signing a cut player still does not count towards the Chiefs.

ICTChief - February 21, 2012 reply

Where does it say that?

After he was cut, Route became a free agent. It doesn’t say anything about signing players that were cut

So I guess that would mean

that if Brett Farve came out of retirement, signed a $15mil deal with KC, played 16 games, won SB MVP for us he wouldnt count when they are lookign at getting Comp Pick’s for losing Carr… That is the same thing as being cut according to the “logic” of not counting a cut player. What about a player who wasnt in the league a year for any reason like injury, personal, etc?

KSU-Chief - February 21, 2012 reply

I'll admit, I don't understand all this stuff

But it makes sense that Route would not count in favor of the Raiders position. If he did than every team would just cut underperforming/overpaid players to get a free pick.

It doesn’t make sense that he wouldn’t count against KC. When he was cut he became a FA, a FA we signed.

Then again, Goodell’s NFL is a screwy place.

At the time of his signing

Route is basically a street free agent, not associated with any team when we signed him, i.e. we are not taking him from another team so he will not count when comp pics are calculated. I believe it is just that simple.

ICTChief - February 21, 2012 reply

Routt people, Routt.

He’s not a wide receiver.

It's taken every ounce of my being to not go

grammar nazi on these fools posting Route all over the place.

When Carr's contract expires he will have no ties to the Chiefs....

ie. no team will be taking him from us

Negative....

I was just typing that...

Why cant the NFL just put out the F-IN rules on the Compensation Picks… Guess they couldnt fudge the books then :)

KSU-Chief - February 21, 2012 reply

This, me thinks there is just a bit of Commish discretion that factors in

Still not as bad as

the NBA choosing ping pong balls behind closed doors, for draft positions.

Hey, no one is coming close to saying Stern runs a clean league

We all saw that Ewing draft “lottery.” Thing with Stern, is he doesn’t even try to hide the shadyness.

Stern is the worst commish of all the sports.

Goodell is a close second

Butt Selig would like a word with you.

Im no fan of Selig by any means

I am if we get another wild car per division

I'm not a fan of watering down the post season.

5 playoff teams out of 15? That’s a third of the league. Yeah, let’s make those 162 LESS meaningful.

The way they're doing it

makes it more meaningful, really. By having a play-in game for the wildcard, they’re making winning your division way more important than it has been under the current format. Nobody wants to put all their playoff eggs into a one game basket.

I hate Selig as much as the next guy, but this is one thing I believe he’s doing right.

Good point.

I’m still not in favor of it. Yeah, your making it more important to win the division, but you’re also letting in another team that is going to be closer to .500. I see your argument, I just respectfully disagree.

That's fine.

There are two sides, and I’ve went round and round with other baseball fans. There is no right or wrong answer, but I like division titles meaning something again. I think that’s worth the trade-off of letting lesser teams have a shot.

If they stay at 5, I'll probably get used to it and be fine with it.

But if they expand again I’ll be pissed.

I agree.

I didn’t want expanded playoffs either, until I saw how they were doing it. I don’t want the field watered down any more.

Hell no

Despite all the bullshit, both those guys have entertaining leagues. Sellig is BY FAR the worse.

Another Successful Tedford QB - February 21, 2012 reply

Stern vetoed a trade and had a betting ring being run by his refs. Not even close. Stern is the worst.

I'm trying to be more like Stern in the fake football league

Which by the way, we need to release the draft order ASAP

Another Successful Tedford QB - February 21, 2012 reply

I hate Stern and that rat-faced weasel he brings with him to all his news conferences.

Yes, release those picks NOW

The sport of baseball sucks, there isn't much the commish can do for that

Make it more like beer league softball

Encourage steroids. Pitch clock similar to shot clock, don’t pitch fast enough its a balk. Cut the season in half.

Those last two would be phenomenal

I love the shortened NBA season

It has me watching games almost every night. Then again, maybe its my sweet new home office that has me watching more games while I “work”

Now if they just shorten the playoffs..

That shits rediculous

Working from home now?

Best way to destroy production. At least for me.

I’ll study for about 15 minutes then wonder if there’s anything new on AP…

And the NBA season is drastically helped by the fact that there’s more talent in the league right now than there has been in decades.

That and Jeremy Lin.

All except the steroids I'd be down with.

But it would still suck imo.

That's a pretty low brow comment

I don’t follow or particularly like hockey, but I wouldn’t say it sucks. To each his own.

Baseball is a complex game that requires a lot of understanding. It’s an acquired taste, I will give you that. I grew up on it.

True dat about Stern.

I think the free agency period is like a buffer period for that purpose.....

burntorangehorn - February 21, 2012 reply

Again, I believe this is incorrect

Cut players do not count as a player lost, but can count as a player gained when signed by another team, IIRC. I am pretty sure Adam’s criterion about that just isn’t specific, but I could be wrong.

Then again, I’m on the way out the door, but I did a bit of research, and unfortunately all the immediate results yielded sites that reference Adam’s list of criteria, and make the same interpretation you do. I would need to find a source that references something other than that list to really have a good answer. As an alternative, I’ll see if I can go back and find some of Adam’s projections to see if any of the players signed and counted had been cut by their previous teams, which would be an indicator. I would be glad to find out Routt doesn’t count.

what about this news...

"A team is eligible to receive compensatory draft picks if it is determined that they lost more or better players than they were able to acquire during the previous year’s free agency period. The number of picks a team receives equals the net loss of compensatory free agents (maximum of four)."

We’re not even in the FA period yet are we? If not… Routt won’t go against us.
That’s the difference between a cut player…and a player that enters FA when his contract expires.

I agree with this.

I think the free agency period is basically designed to help teams KEEP their free agents in place if they couldn’t come to an extension agreement during the expired contract period.

burntorangehorn - February 22, 2012 reply

You could be right

I’d be interested in seeing something definite on it, although the NFL obviously guards its formula like Coca-Cola. They wouldn’t want to be subject to public analysis of uniformity and fairness, after all.

So Orton counts against us, then? I don't think that's true.

I think the timing is whether the player was signed in the free agency period immediately following the expiration of his previous contract.

So Waters didnt count against the Patriots because he was cut...

I didnt know that because a was cut they didnt count as a FA pickup when it concerns Comp Picks… That is good info to know now…

KSU-Chief - February 21, 2012 reply

I'm sure I'll get blasted for this....

But I would take carr over Bowe anyday of the week. Carr is such an underrated talent bowe is 27 granted that hes almost the same age as stanford routt. To me keeping carr and flowers and routt you have the absolute best DB group in the NFL hands down. but just from watching bowe the past few years he needs an attitude adjustment cassel has to throw over dwaynes head just so bowe can catch it. anytime a QB throws a curl route to bowe forget about him catching it.

Anywho, i’m ranting just hard to see carr go is all. If we can somehow get a 1st round or a high 2nd round pick for him ill feel a bit better but overall letting carr go will highlight piolis career as an abomination while in charge of the chiefs just like King Carl traded Jared Allen

Zac Saleski - February 21, 2012 reply

Before they signed Routt I would have agreed.

Now, not so much.

Same.

Cassel has to throw over his head?

He has no other choice cuz he can’t do any better…I’d love to see this offense without our #1 receiver. I think I got a nice glimpse in game 17 in Denver.

NJChieffan16 - February 21, 2012 via mobile reply

I’ve seen cassel have a great touch on the ball but hes too inconsistent. Plus its not fair to say because now we have a different Offensive coordinator with most of our weapons coming back. I like baldwin but Bowe gives a half assed effort quite a bit

Zac Saleski - February 21, 2012 reply

Bowe has been our leading receiver for quite some time.

We also have some terrible QB play. He should have gotten an automatic Pro Bowl election just because he had to deal with Palko and Cassel minus one Jamaal Charles.

NJChieffan16 - February 21, 2012 reply

I prefer Carr over Bowe, too

but Cassel has shown he can only throw to him (and Moeaki when he was healthy) so I’m sure Pioli doesn’t want to commit marital suicide.

Nicoloco - February 21, 2012 reply

we have Rout ,Brown , Arenas and potenially Daniels at corner after Carr, not to mention Flowers

After Bowe, we have a slot receiver and an unproven guy that barely played last year. Carr is far more replaceable than Bowe is especially now

I hope Pioli can convince Bowe that everything you're saying is true.

Then Bowe would be more likely to sign before March 5, and we can tag Carr.

Proven young performer vs 50/50 crapshoot in the draft?

I just want my team to stay my team . . . ya know?

We develop him, he’s ours!

bakerlee - February 21, 2012 reply

But if he wants 10+ mil per year...

We’re not his…

It's a wasted opportunity if he's allowed to walk just for a comp pic at the end of the 3rd round (at best)

He’ll be the #1 CB on the market & he’s just entering the prime of his career. Randy Moss was worth a 3rd to the Vikings for half a season, is anybody telling me that Carr wouldn’t be worth more than that to a desperate team?

jmcgoblue - February 21, 2012 reply

Well Randy Moss is one of the best WRs... not just one of the best FA WRs

Carr isn’t a top 10 CB… he might be the best #2 CB though.

#1 corner on the market.

That’s debatable. There’s still the chance they sign Bowe and tag Carr. Be patient.

This thing is not over, yet.

Not by a long sight it is not over. We will see what transpires.

G.L. - February 21, 2012 reply

I hope so

franchising Carr would go a long way in trying to move up for that number 1 pick

I wonder how many they get this year

Considering FA hasn't even started and we've already made a relatively big signing

I’m guessing not many.

No this year, as in this draft

we won’t see the Carr pick until next year

Probably none.

Lost… what Smith and a couple of guys I can’t remember, and signed Gregg, Breaston, Siler, plus all the others that we did retain?

Ahh I see

I have no idea. Looking at who we got vs. who we lost though, I’m guessing nothing.

we got a 6th rounder last year

And we lost wade Smith and signed Lilja, Wiegman,Jones, Shaun Smith. We should get something

mockingthedraft had an article

The Chiefs netted no Comp picks in 2012.

Lilja and Weigmann were similar signings to Routt this year. Cut players

Steve_Chiefs - February 21, 2012 reply

Interesting

Like Steve said, i think there’s a difference between cut players and FA’s…

But yeah, I have no idea how it works.