Arrowhead Pride

I personally think in today's NFL, QB is every teams biggest need unless you have an elite one.

It is a QB driven league. You can cover up problems anywhere else on the field, but without a QB it will be very difficult to be a contender year in and year out.

saskwatch - February 22, 2012 reply

Amen, and Cassel isn't cutting it...

I’m all for using The Orton for a few years if Pioli thinks Stanzi can be our guy in the future…

RGIII would be epic, but I don’t think Pioli makes that move…

Chris Sembower - February 22, 2012 reply

Cassel isn't cutting it.....

Orton was let go by the Bronco’s, even the Bears didn’t make a play for him. Orton never will be the answer to anything. He threw only 2 td passes in three games for KC.

trchief - February 22, 2012 reply

The Bears claimed him just like we did. We were just higher in the hierarchy and won him

Source

Yeah, I don't know where he got that impression...

Kyle Orton showed us what life would be like with a QB capable of running the play action with out giving it away to the defense.

He may not be that much better than Cassel overall, but he is much better at that aspect of the game. It gave us a tease as to what life would be like with a fundamentally sound QB. Too bad we can’t mesh there skills together.

It is time to QB shop…

Chris Sembower - February 22, 2012 reply

Not saying Orton is the answer

but he is closer to a solution (albeit not by much) than is #7. I’d like to see what he can do with an improved OL and healthy RBs…and a real TE.

SCKSChief - February 22, 2012 reply

I'm pretty interested to see how we play this. seems like we have some options depending on how Daboll feels

I think that’s something that’s being overlooked here. he will probably have significant input there, because he won’t be competing with an egomaniac offensive mind like haley. nobody ever saw haley going… “now romeo… i think you should play so and so over so and so”, he just left him be because he trusted him. I think Romeo trusts Daboll, or he wouldn’t be here. So with that said, I’m curious to see how Daboll feels about the situation. Maybe he likes him some sophomore QB style competition? dont know. but I think there is an assumption that cassel will automatically be ‘the guy’ because pioli likes him. i really feel like if Daboll likes someone else, that someone else will move up the ranks. verrrrry interesting going forward.

Yes!

Anyone else notice how Haley just now finally met with Ben Roethlisberger and it took Big Ben to reach out to Haley?

Todd Haley was the single biggest problem with this Chiefs team and now we’ve got an OC that can put his players in a position to succeed without being sabotaged by a paranoid delusional Head Coach.

We need a third QB going into camp, but I like Stanzi’s chances for showing what he can do under Daboll. To simply assume Pioli is demanding the coaching staff trot Cassel out there no matter what is pretty short-sighted.

I wonder if Daboll has contacted RG3 yet?

and had 2 TD drops

loyal Chief fan - February 22, 2012 reply

Orton never had any weapons to work with in Chicago or Denver

Marshall was his only receiver in Denver and his numbers were solid while he was there, and Chicago had no one on offense.

I would like to see what he could do with an entire offseason to prepare with Charles (best RB hever had), Bowe (as good as Marshall), Moeaki (best TE he ever had), Balwin (Best #2 he ever had), Breaston (best #3 he ever had). And that doesn’t even mention McCluster or our new Wildcat QB Arenas.

This would be a totally different world for Orton. I think he could do more with it than Cassel and that is likely the only other alternative we have.

Skrappy - February 22, 2012 reply

I agree Skrappydoo

You never know how a QB will perform on different teams. Good QB’s sometimes don’t work out on good teams. Orton looked very effective on our team with very little time to prepare. Imagine what he can do if he’s given a full off season.

For example, Drew Brees

Everyone talks about how you need an elite QB to win the Super Bowl, but Brees was not always considered elite. A second round pick who didn’t catch on with his first team, he is now one of the most prolific QBs of all time due largely to pairing with the right OC for his style.

He actually did start to do well with the Chargers right after they drafted Rivers.

Then he got injured.

No doubt

But they drafted Eli Manning 1st overall and then traded for Rivers because they thought either one would be better than Brees. Had Brees not gotten injured, do you think they would have kept him over their new 1st rounder? He was gone no matter what.

Yes, I do.

It was really a dramatic up-tick after they drafted Eli/Rivers. NObody says anything the least bit bad about the Katrina Savior nowadays, but back then it sure looked exactly like a classic case of lazy-player-gets-fire-lit-under-ass-by-competition-itis.

That’s how I remember it, and the numbers seem to back me up. He had a fantastic 105 rating the year they drafted Eli, up from a 68 the year before….

I think if Brees doesn’t get injured or relapse to his pre-Rivers numbers, I would have given 80/20 chances that Rivers eventually gets traded instead.

I seem to recall

that Schottenheimer wanted to keep Brees and didn’t want to have to play Rivers, and that was a big factor in his being fired after a 14-2 season…

Brees has a Super Bowl, and Rivers hasn’t won shit. Ever.

That would make sense in the framework of my AJent Smith hatred.

Sooooo glad that dick fired both Marty and Brees, even though his firing Marty is the main reason that he disgusts me.

And this is why OT is the team's biggest need

You can’t hang all of your team’s success on finding an elite QB (they are hard to come by), so you need to have a team built to help a ‘good’ QB succeed. This starts up front.

Let’s not forget, if it weren’t for a couple fluke plays this year’s Superbowl would have featured Alex Smith vs Joe Flacco.

jmcgoblue - February 22, 2012 reply

re: Smith vs Flacco

First off, it wasn’t. It was Brady vs Manning. AGAIN
Second off, both Smith and Flacco are better than we have right now.

Whoa

Alex Smith = Matt Cassel at best.

Alex Smith played very well in the playoffs early on.

That is something Matt Cassel hasn’t even sniffed, there is no way they are equal…

Jim Harbaugh made Alex Smith a much better QB and showed just how important good coaching is in the NFL. Alex Smith still has a long way to go in his career, but he is on the upswing, while Matt Cassel may be falling off the cliff.

So would you trade Cassel for Smith straight up?

I wouldn’t.

I would trade Cassel for Alex Smith

but I don’t want Matt Cassel on the Chiefs anymore, I would trade him for some unscratched lottery tickets and a Mountain Dew.

It is time for the Chiefs to move on from Matt Cassel IMO.

Did you watch those clutch throws in the Saints game?

I don't want Cassel anymore than the next guy

but I don’t think he’s any worse or better than Smith. I feel like Smith’s season this year was very similar to Cassel’s. And yes, I did see the Saint’s game. He made some good throws down the stretch but Tim Tebow did too this year and I think he’s the worst QB in the NFL.

**Cassel's season last year

Tim Tebow isn't a QB

I see where you are coming from, but the truth is, neither is very good.

Alex Smith is in the perfect situation for him in San Francisco and I recognize that. Hell, even Matt Cassel would succeed under Harbaugh IMO.

The problem is, we don’t have Jim Harbaugh. So neither would help this team long term. At this point I would take Smith over Cassel because he is not Cassel and KC needs no more Cassel..ever.

But that isn’t a ringing endorsement for Alex Smith…

I would in a heart beat.

Cassel carrer back up, that was drafted late, with no hopes at all. Smith #1 overall for a reason. Smith has the tools to succed just never has. Maybe he’s going to live up to his Hype when he was drafted. Cassel has achieved all he will he’s peaked, no hopes for him to get better.

dbakerku - February 22, 2012 reply

Alex Smith has had a rough career..

And its NOT his fault…SF has stunted ANY growth the kid ever had by changing head coaches…he had a new OC every year he has been in the league…..with Harbaugh he grew leaps and bounds…Harbaugh made him feel confident….and that was all in a strike shortened offseason with NOT MANY WEAPONS….wait til next year when they give him a couple more WRs to throw to…Crabtree and Co. didnt do shit this year…he basically had V Davis to throw to and Gore…and that was good enough to get them to Overtime in the NFC Championship game…

KCinAZ - February 22, 2012 reply

I'll give you Flacco but I can't give you Alex Smith

So are you saying the 'aura' of Brady & Manning somehow caused Lee Evans to drop a TD pass & some SF returner to muff a punt in OT?

I know you’re not, but that’s essentially where your argument comes from. The thing that an elite QB can do is to make up for a lot of other deficiencies on the team…and if those deficiencies aren’t there, the elite QB makes you dominant.

I’m no fan of Cassel, trust me, but if he’s given a really good OL, a great RB (like Charles when healthy), and a great receiving corps, and a great defense, he’s good enough to QB the team to a Superbowl…it’s just that a lot of things have to fall into place.

jmcgoblue - February 22, 2012 reply

I agree with that, but I pose this question then..

What’s harder to get, an elite QB or “a really good OL , a great RB (like Charles when healthy), and a great receiving corps, and a great defense”? Its 21 v 1, and obviously the QB can clear up most definciencies but its pretty difficult to be great at every position minus QB and consistently win for years.

King of the Cassel - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

To win championshipSSS, like Pioli said he wants to do, we've got to solidify the QB position.

You can win one championship with a mediocre QB and a very solid rest-of-the-team. But you’d only win that one, and then the team would change just like every team changes every offseason. Only way to avoid “winning windows” is to get a QB who can carry the team through its periods of flux.

By FAR the least costly and surest way to win in this NFL is by having a franchise QB. That’s why it’s so ironic when people shirk at the cost of getting that QB in the first place. The alternative is to keep dumping loads of money and effort and development time into building the best rest-of-the-team the NFL has seen since the 2001 Ravens.

It's not the cost of a franchise QB.

It’s the cost when you miss. That’s what a lot of people fear.

Bull. A lot of people just look at it one season at a time.

Cost when you miss on a “team-build” >>>>>> cost when you miss on a single QB.

right you are..

be cee - February 22, 2012 reply

they weren't fluke plays, it was 2 mediocre QBs failing to step up

Both QBs had plenty of chances to get it done but they just failed. That’s why QB is so important.

It’s also why if I were Peyton manning I’d try to go to the 49ers. Imagine how scary that team would be.

this

is exactly what i was gonna say…..a QB like Manning will make your weak line (bRich) look a lot better…
that being said, if the chiefs are gonna go with Cassel this year…they need a to upgrade the line…they cant hold their blocks long enough for him to make a decision and get rid of the ball

KCinAZ - February 22, 2012 reply

exactly

but the question is whether or not there’s a real upgrade available in this draft. Luck, RG III would likely be upgrades but is it worth trading away lots of draft picks to get them? I doubt it.

After QB I’d say RT and then NT.

michaelaglover - February 22, 2012 reply

Both Luck and/or Rg3 are worth the picks, we can address the line in FA along with DT and possibly RB

Jeremy Daniel - February 22, 2012 reply

nt\ose tackle

it’s a close race between nose tackle and right offensive tackle

I think it's gotta be RT

yes, upgrading at QB would be nice… but I think that’s not as likely

I think that’s not as likely

Not really the question, is it? I don’t think it’s likely at all that they draft a QB, but I think it’s by far the biggest need.

JComp11 - February 22, 2012 reply

This

That's a different question

I think the team’s “biggest need” is QB, but expect them to draft an RT in the first round. You’re right that it’s unlikely they will do anything major about the QB spot (maybe draft Foles or Cousins if they get them for a good price). While I think QB is the biggest need at a single position, I think our needs at RT, NT, and TE may outweigh going big for one player at one position.

admittely, true

I, personally, think they can win a LOT of games with Cassel or Orton…

both ARE NFL calibur starters (contrary to popular opinion, sometimes :))

But, Barry Richardson really doesn’t look like a starter at this point… so I think he’s a weaker link than the QBs

I agree that BRich needs to be upgraded

but I think Cassel made him look worse than he is by holding on to the ball too long. BRich blocking didn’t get magiclly better once Orton was back there, he just got rid of the ball.

BRich was ranked the worse starting OT last year

Tinman20738 - February 22, 2012 reply

And a QB who holds on to the ball forever makes him look worse

Manning has had bad offensive linemen in INdy, but because he gets rid of the ball quickly he only gets sacked about 17 times a year

Very well put.

I agree that QB is definitely the biggest need. The question then becomes, how much would it take to move up and get a guy like Griffin (assuming they are sold on him)? Assuming it’s something like:

-this year’s first and second
-next year’s first

So how would this team be better improved? With Griffin or with those draft picks (say a new RT, another good TE and a NT)? That’s a tough call. The QB position is big, but it is more important than three other positions? I’m not sure. I will say that if they are able to tag Carr and get another pick for him, I’ll become more receptive to the idea of trading up.

Good thoughts

I guess the real question is how far do we want to go towards winning a Super Bowl.
As stated above some think Cassel with enough weapons can get us there, Peyton Manning, Brees, and Rodgers do not always get there either But they have been there.

I personally don't think Cassel gets you there (unless he improves substantially).

But I also don’t think you necessarily need Rodgers or Brady to full it off either (if you have enough other pieces).

I, personally believe...

with Charles, Bowe, Moeaki, breaston, dex, and baldwin and our Defense…and this years draft in the trenches, Orton not only could lead us to the SB, he could win it…

That might be a bit ambitious.

He is nowhere near elite, but he is good enough...

and no matter what some say, he is quite a bit better than the HATt…

In an ideal world

we would sign an NT and powerback in FA (Soliai and Bush would be my druthers). We’d spend our 1st on O-line (DeCastro, Martin, Reiff, or Smith), our 2nd on Foles, and between rounds 3-5 we pick up a TE, backup G or T, and backup S.

This would make us a playoff caliber team but maybe not SB caliber. The big question there is Foles’ potential as an NFL QB. In the near future we’ll go from Cassel to Foles (or maybe even Stanzi) as our starter; and I’m not sure either will be elite enough make us consistent contenders.

I'm with you on 95% of that and you hit the nail on the head.

The quarterback part is where is gets murky. They are really in an interesting spot this offseason. Unless they can bring in someone in FA who is CLEARLY better than Cassel (making a QB competition in camp irrelevant), there’s only one spot open on the QB depth chart.

So if they grab a guy like Foles, they are pretty much stuck with Cassel this year, for better or worse. Now, if they grab a mid-tier QB in FA like Orton (or Jason Campbell, etc) there’s no room for a draft pick. It’s really an interesting questions: do you draft a mid-tier guy, roll with Cassel for another year and hope the rook or Stanzi turns into your starter? Or do you go with another decent FA, hope the winner of the QB battle turns out to be solid and can at least buy you a few years to find a younger option?

If we aren't going to trade up for RGIII

Then we should sign Manning if possible, or a mid-tier guy if not, draft a Foles or a Cousins, and cut or trade Cassel. Pioli front loaded his deal so he won’t be impossible to get rid of either way.

I don’t think that’s going to happen. But it’s what should happen.

Would you feel comfortable heading into the season with Manning.

Who is obviously going to be an injury risk, Stanzi and a rook? I might be better with this if it’s Orton or someone else like that, but Manning is such an injury risk that there’s a good chance we’d see someone else at QB for a few games.

Lots of teams use highly drafted rookies as their backups.

Jake Locker, and Christian Ponder both opened last year as backups. Both of them saw playing time (Locker after the injury prone vet who was playing very well got hurt). Both of them played well.

So if we take a shot at Kellen Moore in the 6th, no. He and Stanzi shouldn’t be the backups. But if it’s an RGIII, a Tannehill, a Foles, a Cousins, etc. Then I’d be fine with them as a backup. Just like the Bengals would have been fine with Andy Dalton as the backup if Palmer had ended his holdout.

I follow.

But there’s a big difference between a QB who goes in the top 10 and one who falls to the 2nd or 3rd round.

That difference is desperation.

There’s no way Locker and especially Ponder should have been taken where they were.

True.

But just comparing them specifically to guys like Foles, Osweiler, Cousins and Weeden (guys who should be there in the 2nd, maybe 3rd), I don’t know if they are on the same level. Tannehill probably, not sure about the rest.

What about Dalton?

Tannehill is horrible.

Chief Willie Wildcat - February 22, 2012 reply

As much as I'd like to say RT

If Gregg is retiring, that leaves the cupboard pretty bare at NT. Powe is relatively unknown and I think Toribio is a backup at best. NT absolutely must be addressed.

Gordon is another

but he’s been a journeyman. He’s probably best in a backup or situational role.

Chief Willie Wildcat - February 22, 2012 reply

I'm going to cover this in a fanpost (maybe tonight).

But I think the nose tackle position is being severely overvalued here on AP by many.

Depends

If Cassel is the quarterback our biggest need is NT. If Orton is our quarterback our biggest need is RT.

I would flip that around, personally

Orton made the OL look much better

Maybe hwe is hoping that without a RT Cassel will be quickly injured for the remainder of the season.

saskwatch - February 22, 2012 reply

maybe...

as long as they aren’t stuck with Palko again

Here's my thinking.

I understand it seems a bit backward. With Cassel at QB and a new RT, I believe our offense is still what it is; streaky. Therefore, the focus should be on stepping up the D further in this case. With Orton at QB I believe our offense can take a step forward and produce a more balanced total team attack.

The D ngets tired and alows points if the O cant stay on the field

Tinman20738 - February 22, 2012 reply

If Matt Cassel is the quarterback, then our biggest need is at QB. Period.

Topchief1 - February 22, 2012 reply

AMEN!

ChiefWildcat - February 22, 2012 reply

Agree.

RB depth

What about bringing in a guy like Peyton Hillis? I know he had some missteps this year, but maybe on the cheap we can grab him. I think he would be a nice complement to Charles.

AlecV - February 22, 2012 reply

would rather have Bush, Tolbert

or some smasher at fullback & give short-yardage, 4th Q game icer carries to McClain. Hillis is too much of a me-first diva type.

reedeasy - February 22, 2012 reply

agreed

I’ll take McClain over Hillis at this point

then add Bush/Tolbert/BGE

Worst case

scenario… We move McClain to running back, and Shane Bannon gets the nod at full back.

Shhh...

people forgot about Shane Bannon. I don't think you are suppose to remind anyone he exists.

That is a solid plan, I would rather go after Peyton Hillis, Matt Forte, but if the Chiefs stand pat, that is a solid plan.
I really like how LeRon McClain catches the ball out of the backfield.

I know Stags doens’t think we should get Hillis, but there is nothing wrong with having Hillis and McClain. Plus, Brian Daboll knows how to use the guy and it helps having veterans that know the OC’s system well on site.

I would say QB but

I know we aren’t going to get a starter so other than that it would be RT.

Cassel can win if given all the tools and everything to help him. He holds the ball like he is in love with it and afraid to let it go so give him as much protection as he can.

NT will be a close second. Actually, RT is probably 1a and NT is 1b.

Fozzyboyd - February 22, 2012 reply

As much as

I thought Haley was the head coach this team needed after the train wreck that was Herm I think Haley kind of stunted Cassel with the ball protection mentality.

Haley basically stuck a second year starter on a very bad team and drilled it into Cassel’s head that he had to protect the ball above all else. Prior to Cassel coming here I heard various stories about Belichick telling Cassel not to be afraid of throwing an interception. He then comes here and is told to throw the ball away if the one reciever we did have on the team at that time was not open.

Do you put that on Haley or on Weis?

Cassel didn’t go into shell mode until Weis showed up. Of course it was well reasoned shell mode within an offensive scheme.

Maybe Haley just went with the idea and never connected it to an actual, you know, offensive plan. “NEVER THROW THE BALL UNLESS YOU ARE REALLY, REALLY SURE. And if you are really sure, take a second to think about it…”

If it was Haley, I sure hope he scrambles his new QB in the same way.

mushin - February 22, 2012 reply

I would

have to put it on Haley. The protect the ball mentality seemed to show towards the end of Haley’s first year here, but seemed to get worse once Weis arrived.

I still do think that Haley was exactly what this team needed when he came on board though. I am hoping that if Cassel is our QB moving forward Dabol will transition this offense to a more hurry up/no huddle type of offense. Cassel seemed to do much better in that type of scenario. Of course with that type of system we really need to upgrade the OL. In particular at the RT spot. With what we already have on hand I can see us running the hurry up with a two receiver, two back, one tight end package.

He was also all the time holding up the play to the QB

Tinman20738 - February 22, 2012 reply

Well, there has been a lot of discussion on what has stunted Cassel's growth as a QB

I blame it on Haley. Not many QB’s can go through that many OC’s and be productive. Cassel has faults but Haley never put him in a situation to be successful. Maybe someone like Peyton Manning but most QB’s need some sort of consistancy, not different coaches every year, diff plays every year, one year with no QB coach or OC, one year with no O-Line coach, 5 OC’s in 4 years. It was a train wreck waiting to happen. Then again, I think Cassel has shown that he is going to be no more than an average QB as well and that doesn’t help.

As for the comments below blaming the conservative approach with him on Weis, Weis hasn’t shown that tendency with any QB. He had Brady winging it all around the first year he was a starter. Also, the conservative approach happened in Haley’s first year. It’s not like Haley had Cassel throwing it all over the place except in the blowouts and if he did and Weis changed that then why didn’t he change it back when he basically had a puppet OC. Nah, that offense was all Haley and it was all train wreck except the year Weis took it over. That’s why, even though I have a lot of respect for Pittsburgh’s organization, I am just waiting for that offense to implode.

Fozzyboyd - February 22, 2012 reply

Haley is already imploding in Pittsburgh.

Dude has a franchise QB and Big Ben already hates his new OC. This should be fun to watch.

My goal for the Chiefs

is to make it to a Super Bowl and win it. So I’m going to say QB.

all of the above

but if I have to vote, OT

fongKC - February 22, 2012 reply

QB > NT > RT

+1

CapsLockKey - February 22, 2012 reply

QB = they are going to bring in competition

which means either Brady Quinn or Jason Campbell. That or they draft another guy in rounds 3-5. Quinn, Campbell, Cassel, or another 5th rounder = another sucky year.

They aren’t going to move up for Luck or RG3 and Tannehil may be the next best but I don’t see them taking him at 11 or trading down and taking him in the 1st. That means maybe Foles in 2-3rd, Cousins in 3-5, or Weedon if he drops a lot.

I agree, we need a QB bad, just don’t see the current regime doing much about it.

Fozzyboyd - February 22, 2012 reply

Ryan Tannehill could be a huge bust.

Dude has only played QB for ~~two years~~ a year and a half. He’ll need several years on the pine to even begin to grasp the pro game.

Stanzi is light years better than Tannehill.

The thing that worries me is, doesn't the WR --> QB switch usually go the OTHER way?

Yep.

Marvin McNutt, for example.

Now THAT'S a guy I wouldn't mind picking up.

Probably not, though, looks like our WR corps is gonna be pretty crowded next year.

Torn between RT and QB

B-rich is going to get a QB killed. SO even if Cassel is 2nd string he probably would see playing time. Protect the QB with a good RT.

dklogue1 - February 22, 2012 reply

Both.

are we talking reality here? if so, then OT or DT. We’re not getting an elite QB in here.

kc571 - February 22, 2012 reply

So because we may not get one QB isn't a need? Gotcha

obviously need a QB if we’re ever going to win consistently. my point was that this year, right now, as our team stands, what is our biggest need given what ownership thinks (or at least what I think, they think). I have a bad feeling that we’re still going to have cassel and a lesser, maybe henne or campbell. So with that, we need help on the oline and a DT that can push the pocket. We’re not trading up for RG. i doubt we roll the dice on manning.

kc571 - February 22, 2012 reply

Careful, it's a trick question

Voting for anything besides QB is giving Hatt your vote of confidence at the same time…..and who really wants to do that….hmmmmm?

severn58 - February 22, 2012 reply

Hatt has my vote of confidence

He is a great QB who will lead this team to a SB victory because he was a backup to Tom Terrific. His greatness rubbed off on him.

NJChieffan16 - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

Ah-so, greatness through osmosis, got it.

severn58 - February 22, 2012 reply

QB is the most important product on the field.

The Chiefs have to find a way to upgrade the quarterback position. However, the best friend of a defense is a team that can sustain drives, run the ball and score. No quarterback is going to survive without a stout offensive line. We need to be able to convert short yardage situations and be effective running the ball. Offensive Line is the biggest need. We have to be able to keep the defense off the field. We need Safety help and Defensive Line help. My prioirties in order. Offensive Line, Defensive Line, Defensive Secondary. These needs change in priority based on who gets signed in free agency. Until an upgrade to the starting quarterback position occurs, it is always a priority.

swmochiefan - February 22, 2012 reply

Well said and reasoned

Making it totally unacceptable for an offseason post. Flagged. :)

mushin - February 22, 2012 reply

If we sign Carr,

we’re pretty well set in the secondary. In fact, it would be the baddest damn secondary to ever take the field in the modern era.

How can QB not be leading?

The question is what’s the biggest need. Not what’s most likely.

A good/great QB would make a much bigger difference than any other position on the field. This team has a ton of talent to work with but that spot is holding us back. QB all the way.

TheScootness - February 22, 2012 reply

No idea

A QB is waaaaay more important than a good/decent/not terrible RT

I'm stunned as well

After seeing what a slightly better average QB(Orton) could do with regards to moving the ball (as opposed to a worse average QB in Cassel), how can people not realize that having a GOOD QB would make every other offensive position better?

Because that would mean that Cassel isn't good and there are still some people who can't bring themselves to accept that.

“He just hasn’t gotten enough weapons and time! Don’t you people realize that every other good quarterback is surrounded by a dominant o-line and explosive weapons?”

MountainManMike - February 25, 2012 reply

I think it's more that they wonder if it was more coaching...

that held him back. If you look at it, when Orton came in, he came in and started post Haley. Even as one of Cassel’s harshest critics, I wonder what Cassel would have done after the coaching change. It seems like they opened up the offense just a bit, got plays in earlier. It really seems like the offense changed. The question is, was that Orton or the coaching change? If you look at the years before, both have put up very similar numbers. Makes me lean toward the coaching change having a lot to do with the improvement in QB play. That said, I still think our QB position needs to be upgraded.

not to mention

that having Orton on the field sustained drives, keeping our defense fresh.

mdchiefsfan - February 22, 2012 reply

Because we have Stanzi,

a new OC, and have gotten rid of the cancer that is Todd Haley. It’s really quite simple. Stanzi needs some beef on the line.

Stanzi needs some beef on his pencil neck.

He's 6' 4" 230

I think you are confused.

and he wears #13

how cool is that?

and an Orange Bowl

so suck it, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Andrew Luck, and the rest of you under-achievers!! It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.

IT is a need.

They can’t play if they are injured all the time. It is also hard to see the field on your back.

dklogue1 - February 22, 2012 reply

Ha

and here I thought you meant Arrowhead needed some new IT guys to fix their servers or something.

Face Painter - February 22, 2012 reply

Serious case of PEBKAC / PICNIC / ID-10T going on at One Arrowhead?

TRSChief - February 22, 2012 reply

Orton was sacked only once in 3 games

The QB not holding the ball forever makes a big difference.

green

Make room for the Stanzi.

This back?

Or through your ear hole.

dklogue1 - February 22, 2012 reply

Definately QB. Obviously, we can do many things. Get the QB position fixed, a better

NT and add lineman and this team will challange for elite statis.

New owner

save your pennies

I seriously had to re-read that.

Changed the whole meaning of the message the second go-round.

TRSChief - February 22, 2012 reply

Been collecting bottles and cans

for the $.05 deposit

6 Billion + people on earth

You can find enough cans for the 1.5 Billion you will need to buy the Chiefs in no time.

Throw in some panhandling and washing windows… You could own the Chiefs by 2014 at the very minimum.

I know I’ve got five on it.

KCShuffle said hed pay me $2 to rake his leaves

You are well on your way to being the new owner everyone calls cheap, that is,

unless you keep collecting cans and raking leaves after your purchase.

Then you will be the bestest Chiefs owner ever.

ArrowDread as owner

Make it rain

KansasCityShuffle - February 22, 2012 reply

Golden Goat

in the house

I can't think of anything needed more than a good QB.

If possible; Manning.

If not; ORTON

bossmanham - February 22, 2012 reply

Cosigned

Signed, sealed...............

and hopefully delivered!

LadyChief - February 22, 2012 reply

I agree that QB is truly the most important position on the field.

And that we either need to get one who is ready now or draft one for the future. The fact is though that we are, most likely, going to have Cassel. And we might have Orton. So saying that are greatest need is a QB when we basically know what is going to happen is a waste of time. Therefore, I defer to the position that something may actually be done with.

In our system a NT is actually a very overrated need

Because of the defense we run and the fact that the league is turning into more of a passing league which forces us into sub packages more often our NT isn’t on the field all that much. The NT we need is a run stopping, gap filling, blocker eating beast and for the most part those players are 1-2 down(closer to 1) players. Unless you get a freak athlete like Ngata or Wilfork, which dont come around often, that offer the flexibility of being useful in sub packages then NT isnt that high of a need on the list compared to more impactful positions like QB or any offensive lineman for example that are on the field every play on offense.

GenericBrand - February 22, 2012 reply

It's become a very common fallacy on here that our NT wasn't on the field that much

Gregg saw an average of 34 snaps per game. (over 500 total)

out of 950+ defensive snaps

So over 50%

I’d hardly call that a position of little importance, especially when it affects run defense so much.

there is a nice read in the fanshots on the Chiefs Defense

Cool, thanks

That is a good read.

It shows that our guys are all pretty much one dimensional. This works to a point, but the problem is Dorsey and T-Jax still have to rush the passer at times, and Bailey/Gilberry have to defend the run.

And those situations, I believe, are when our D gets exposed.

Gregg is also a versatile guy that can be used as a DT or DE in passing situations

or in sub packages.

GenericBrand - February 22, 2012 reply

I never saw that when I was reviewing the tape for my T-Jax/Dorsey/Bailey posts

I mean, I’m not saying it never happened. But I watched roughly 500 defensive snaps and never saw it.

HAS to be RB

1st off…Long time reader, first time poster, so be easy on me

I voted RB and surprised more people haven’t. JC is the key to the offense and he is, of course, coming off the ACL injury. We cannot lean on him as the feature back, especially early on in the season. We need a RB who can carry the load early on while Jamaal is still getting back in the grind…and that RB is not on the roster w/ Jones likely gone, Battle and McClain as a FAs, and DMC being a situational/3rd down back.

I see RT close 2nd, NT > G > ILB < QB
TE hasnt even been mentioned either

That being said, they are all big needs and I think they can get quality players at all of the positions if they are active in FA and draft well

Good Post

Welcome to AP! We do need a RB cuz if Jamaal gets injured again, we can’t rely on Cassel to win us games.

Unless the defense plans on scoring for us.

NJChieffan16 - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

What kind of bizzare thought process is that?

We need a RB because if our current RB breaks down we don’t have a QB to win games?

Thats like saying I have a shitty car but instead of getting a new one, I’m going to upgrade my bike because my car sucks and my bike will probably break down.

Nah think about it...

I’d love to replace my dysfunctional car, but if I can’t replace it, then I need something to fall back on. Cassel ain’t going anywhere, Craig. We saw what happen this season when everything was on Cassel

NJChieffan16 - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

He got a good point

Keep the ball outta Cassel’s hands

Its more like our QB is the engine and RB is the tires.
you have an average engine but you had a flat early on in the season last year and your car couldnt go anywhere cause you had no spare.

Now you have your bad-ass tire back, but it is important for your car to MOVE this year…so just incase your tire leaks a little bit of air, you have another very good tire you can put on there when you have to hit the pit stop, then you’re back on the road

I dont know if that makes any sense…and I’m playing a little devil’s advocate because i think it is very important that our QB play improves, but I still argue RB is the bigger need

Thanks!

I agree that RB is a big need but that's arguably the easiest position to fill with talent

Huge FA group that’s good, and a capable #1 can be found later in the draft.

Sam D - February 22, 2012 reply

Couldn't agree more

Couldnt agree more…
there are some great RBs both in FA and the draft (even in later rounds)
We could also fill other needs in several different scenerios:
G: Nicks
NT: Soliai
RT: best available round 1-3(?)
QB: everybody has their strong opinion (see everywhere)

We NEED to be active in FA though, we could have a very stong team in all three phases and hopefully win some playoff games.

QB

Manning>RGIII>Orton>Campbell>Cassel>Stanzi>Henne

Sam D - February 22, 2012 reply

QB

…and it isn’t close.
Does Barry Richardson suck? Yes.
Does he need replaced? Yes.
Is it as important as a QB? Not even close. All he has to be is not the worst RT in football.

Yess

Agreed . Teams can win with below average lineman . But it’s a helluva alot harder to win with below average qbs

chiefsman! - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

The Texans won a playoff game

and very nearly two playoff games with a 5th rounder taken after Stanzi.

/just sayin

It's an interesting question...just not a very good one

We have to deal with reality, if position X is our greatest need, what do we do about it? What if there is no one player that is available that wouldn’t cost so much that it would damage the teams long term potential for success? What if position Y is our 2nd greatest need but a player who would be a massive improvement could be had for at a reasonable cost. Should we make a move on our greatest need just because its our greatest need?

The “right” question in my opinion is: What move (or set of moves) can the team make that improves the team the most in the long term?

OmahaNick - February 22, 2012 reply

A QB

would fix a lot of long term issues

QB

We would win more games with manning. [if healthy] than nicks . Qb is just so important in today’s NFL .

chiefsman! - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

There is a lot of lip service about having competition

at every position, but I don’t see that happening in terms of the quarterback position. If there is a quarterback brought I fully expect the “competition” to be a second stringer who will have virtually no chance of beating out Cassel. The Matt Cassel experiment will continue. Therefore, we need to shore up our obvious shortcoming and carry on. In order of need 1.) Offensive tackle 2.) Nose tackle and 3.) running back. We need to play great D and have a great running game to make up for no quarterback.

G.L. - February 22, 2012 reply

disagree.

Now that the paranoid delusional megalomaniacal Todd Haley is in the process of ruining Ben Roethlisberger, the Chiefs new OC will give Ricky Stanzi every opportunity to beat out Matt Cassel during the pre-season.

We still need a third QB, but we shall finally find out what we have in The One.

It's quarterback and it's not close.

First off, it’s a common misconception that our o-line is terrible. Barry Richardson is terrible, our o-line is not.

Second, a good quarterback can mask a lot of deficiencies, including on the offensive line? Peyton Manning hasn’t had a better offensive line than we have right now in years (at least since Tarik Glenn retired). Manning is just so good at reading defenses and has such a quick release (or had, at least) that he hasn’t need more than a split second to get the ball out.

Kyle Orton is nowhere near Peyton Manning in terms of ability, but our line started looking a lot better once he came in for Tyler Palko for much the same reason.

If you don’t believe me, believe history:

-The Giants didn’t have a great offensive line this year, to put it mildly.
-The Packers’ line was riddled with injury the year before.
-The Saints won the Super Bowl after losing their long time left tackle and never really noticed the difference.
-The Steelers’ line has never been that great.
-Neither was the Cardinals’ when Kurt Warner was there.
-We just got done talking about the deficiencies in Manning’s lines with the Colts.

The truth is, you can win a Super Bowl with out Willie Roaf and Will Shields. You can’t win it (at least not anymore) without Len Dawson.

I think most people will see this next year...

First off, it’s a common misconception that our o-line is terrible. ~~Barry Richardson~~ Pat Perles coaching and scheme was terrible, our o-line is not.

Moving Bill Muir was the biggest mistake this team has made and this line suffered because of it.

Better coaching and Barry may show us something, most of his awful play was coaching errors IMO, I think the Chiefs should re-sign him and let Coach Bicknell work with him. He should still be replaced, but he is young enough to improve.

The Chiefs O-line is terrible.

If you cannot convert a third and one or third and two running the football, you need a better O-line.

Good question; How to answer it?

Lets rate the Chiefs by position from 1 to 10 and assume that a playoff caliber team needs to average a 7.5 in order to be a contender. No starter should be below a 5. No back up should be below a 4.5.

Offense:
QB – Cassel is a 5 (-2.5)
Orton is a 5.5 (-2)
RB – Charles is a 8.5 (1)
#2 RB is a 5 (-2.5)
FB – McClain is a 8.(.5)
TE – Moeaki is a 8.5 (1)
#2 TE is a 5.5 (-2)
LT – Albert is a 8 (.5)
RT – BRich is a 4.5 (-3)
LG – Lilja is a 6 (-1.5)
RG – Asomuah is a 7.5 (0)
C – Hudson is TBD (?)
WR – Bowe is a 8.5 (+1)
WR – Breaston is a 7 (-.5)
WR – Baldwin is TBD (?)

Defense:
NT – Player TBD Assume Powe a 5 and Gordon a 5.5
DE – Dorsey is a 6 (-1.5)
DE – TJax is a 6.5 (-1)
SOLB – Houston is a 7.5 (0)
WOLB – Hali is a 9 (1.5)
WILB – Belcher is a 6 (-1.5)
CB – Flowers is a 8.5 (1)
CB – Carr is a 8 ( .5)
CB – Routt is a 7.5 (0)
SS – Berry is a 9 (1.5)
FS – Lewis is a 7 (-.5)

Ranking By positional upgrade need:

RT (3)
NT (2.5)
QB (2.5)
RB (2.5)
TE # 2 (2)
OG (1.5)
DE (1.5)
ILB (1.5)

CatChief - February 22, 2012 reply

That's great, but it assumes all positions are of equal importance.

I’d gladly take a worse ILB in favor of a great nose tackle or a worse WR in favor of a great QB, for example.

True a small upgrade at QB is worth a considerable upgrade at many other positions.

An upgrade at #2 TE or the Compementary RB or FB does not have the impact as other positions. I guess those are just some more of many considerations at draft time.

I’d say QB is our biggest need.
i’d say RT is 2nd biggest.
i’d say a 2nd RB and NT are tied for 3rd biggest need. Both positions can be downplayed because we are not in base 3-4 very much and the 2nd RB is only a factor running or blocking on about 1/2 or fewer of offensive plays .
I’d say OG and DE are our next biggest need.
I’d say a 2nd TE and then ILB are well down on list of needs.

CatChief - February 22, 2012 reply

Missed DJ

He brings up the ILB score significantly and plays damn near every snap.

TheScootness - February 22, 2012 reply

OOps. DJ would rate at least a 9 on 10 point scale.

His is not a position of need right now.

CatChief - February 22, 2012 reply

QB

You can win a Super Bowl with a crap RT. You will not win one in today’s NFL without an elite QB.

m.yashi - February 22, 2012 reply

meh

I think if you have an Eli / Rivers type of QB you can get there too. Not quite elite, but above “good”

I think both of those players are "elite"

with the exception of Rivers last year.

I think the Giant's TEAM makes Eli look a lot better

He was a 29 TD 16 INT QB last season… Brady/Brees/Rogers are the only “elite” QBs in my mind.

What has Rivers won?

Nothing.

Ever.

eli is elite. he proved that last year.

I used to think the same way but after the beating he took against the niners, he stil got up every time and threw his ass off. If that game and the super bowl win doesnt change everyones mind i dont know what will.

Rupert Daniels - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

How about him being productive for more than a couple games...

You mean like if he put up good numbers for an entire season?

Say, 4900+ yards, 29 TDs, a 61% completion percentage and a 90 plus QB rating?

Those 16 picks don't look so pretty

And the 61% isn’t exactly elite. It’s very good, but not elite.

Then again, people define elite differently. To me, for a guy to be “elite” he needs to be one of the best 3 in the game. And Eli’s a notch below Rodgers, Brady, and Brees (as well as a healthy Peyton)

agreed

Elite isn't a done on a curve. I don't think you can artificially limit the number of elite players in the NFL.

Let’s say that Brees, Brady, and Rodgers all are just as good next year as they were last year. But let’s say Matthew Stafford throws for 5000 yards and 41 touchdowns again. Is he going to have to wait for Brady to retire before he can be elite? What if Stafford does that and Peyton Manning returns to form, too? What if Eli Manning goes off and sets the season TD passes mark?

Elite isn’t being one of the top 3 quarterbacks in the NFL. Elite is being elite. It’s being able to carry the offense on your back despite having the NFL’s 32nd ranked rushing attack. It’s going toe to toe in a duel with Aaron Rodgers in Lambeau. Twice. It’s getting up for the playoffs. It’s being clutch. It’s leading your team on 4th quarter game winning touchdown drives in the Super Bowl. Twice.

Elite is also about being consistently great

Which Eli is not. He’s clutch, but not elite.

Point/Counterpoint

Clutch does not exist. He is just very good, ergo is very good in “clutch situations”.

Fair enough

ELi’s a very good QB.

But then again, so is Romo, but he craps himself constantly in the playoffs. Can there be such a thing as “counterclutch” if there’s no such thing as clutch?

Romo craps himself at times during the regular season. I think it’s more of a consistency thing than a timing thing.

JComp11 - February 22, 2012 reply

I suppose it's generally just a matter of time with him

There absolutely can be such a thing as "counter clutch."

Some people can’t handle the pressure in the biggest moments. They have all the ability but get inside their own heads.

I guess he can't be E-L-I-T-E if he's only E-L-I............

But good call on the fact that there probably shouldn't be a limit to the number of elite QBs

a notch below but with more superbowl rings than rodgers, brees, and peyton

Rupert Daniels - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

I think it can be said..

that Eli may not be “Elite” in comparison to the likes of Brees and Brady BUT I cannot think of a QB I would rather have in the playoffs than Eli Manning.

He just finds ways to step up when it counts and make the plays that need to be made.

chai1836 - February 22, 2012 reply

clutch is more important than any stat.

See vermeil era chiefs.

Rupert Daniels - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

I agree, those guys are good and you need a good QB to win the SB

but neither Cassel nor Orton are that good.

I voted .....

well i didn`t. Because to me its a toss up between NT and RT.Why? because we need a QB but Cassel`s pioli love so we are stuck with him come hell or high water.

wolfpack0735 - February 22, 2012 reply

OT

pioli has yet to draft one, in any round of any of his drafts so far! its time, if fills a huge need, and the offense will be more productive with an o line upgrade. why risk drafting anyone other than luck or RG3 with the first pick? it would be foolish when the line has been your biggest achilles heel for so long.

be cee - February 22, 2012 reply

Colin Brown says hi

exactly.

be cee - March 1, 2012 reply

21-27 is our record with Cassel as our starter

He has been injured ÈVERY year, missing at least one game. Blame o line if you want, but he has had time, plenty of it. what is our biggest need? QB. Hands down. Accept the mistake, get a guy.

Rupert Daniels - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

Can you really count an appendix as an injury?

Yes, sissy needs to lay off the fucking tofu

wheat grass aint gonna get the job done.

Sorry playa.

Rupert Daniels - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

at the same time, just lost our coach last year, guy got injured last season, and quite frankly....21-27 is good for how bad this team was when cassel was put at the helm

dont get me wrong, dude needs to be replaced

but still…..cant goo off record here

SDChief - February 22, 2012 reply

And the record

for the three years prior to Cassel is 15-33. So the record argument is not a good place to start when you argue for a change at the QB position.

I'd give Charles more credit for our wins than Cassel.

And I’d give the absence of Charles more credit for our losses than the absence of Cassel.

Tough vote!

But I chose Offensive Tackle over QB in a real nail biter. I feel like a stud QB is what we’d all love to have, but without some upgrades on the O-Line a stud QB is going to be running for his life back there.

5280ChiefsFan - February 22, 2012 reply

What makes you say that?

With a decent but not great QB behind center in Orton the o-line only gave up like 3 sacks. And I don’t want to repeat my whole post from above. But almost none of the teams in the Super Bowl recently have had good offensive lines. What they have had are quarterbacks who could get the ball out quickly.

We didn't give up many sacks with Orton back there

but we also didn’t get many TD’s. I feel if we had a better offensive line it would give a QB like Cassel/Orton/Campbell ample time to make something happen. Not getting sacked doesn’t necessarily mean anything when you are getting pressured on nearly every snap,.

5280ChiefsFan - February 22, 2012 reply

Orton has struggled in the red-zone everywhere including Denver the year that he had the best offensive line in the NFL.

And our total lack of a running game and competent tight ends doesn’t help a QB much in the red-zone, either.

Orton only took one sack

Just. 1.

NJChieffan16 - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

Oh, well that invalidates my whole point then ;)

And...

Had the plays called in with more than ten seconds left on the play clock. Kind of hard to read a defense pre snap when you are lining up with only two seconds to snap the ball.

Roethlisberger most certainly does not

“get the ball out quickly.” He is the antithesis to that, and he’s got two rings. Eli often holds the ball until the last possible second.

Brady, Manning, maybe even Warner in his heyday get (got) it out quickly. But that is not what defines a Super Bowl QB.

ugh. cassel has never been running for his life.

Neither was orton, neither was palko. They all had significant time for the most part to throw the ball. How much time do you want them to have? Cassel could have 7seconds to throw and still check down or take a sack. Orton showed that this o line is good enough if we have a better qb at the helm.

Rupert Daniels - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

Biggest need is a QB.

Biggest hole is RT or NT. Our RT is the worst in the league and we currently dont have a starting NT.

tackle, nose tackle, qb. hard to really put those in order

SDChief - February 22, 2012 reply

There is no reason that we can't get all three in FA and the draft.

+1

Rupert Daniels - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

Chiefs biggest need is better beer at the concessions

Self respecting men don’t drink Bud or Miller Lite. Clark, these pockets are busting at the seams with disposable income but you can’t manage to stock your shit with some Bouly Pale Ale. I’ve been of legal drinking age for almost a decade yet have never bought a brew from you. GET. YO. SHIT. TOGETHER.

Self respecting men don't eat that garbage known as Arthur Bryants

If that is garbage, it is the finest garbage in the world. I most not be self respecting...yep.

Arthur Bryants off prospect is one of the best BBQ places on the planet..

That is just crazy talk calling it garbage.

82 years of glorious, delicious garbage

Brad's more of a tofurkey kind of guy

Real men eat microwaved BBQ

Arthrur Bryants

is just a bunch of bland meat…hardly any smoke and covered with BBQ sauce to hide the mediocrity of the meat.

I do year guys from Missouri like sauce though... makes sense

To call AB garbage is the worst example of hyperbole I have even come across.

ever*

He's still new to the trollin' game

Seemed to work just fine,

You and H2E should observe, and take some notes.

You cant be any geek off the street

Gotta be handy with the steel, if you know what I mean. Earn your keep

16 in the clip and one in the hole...

Poor Nate Dogg.

Nate Dogg and Warren G had to regulate.

I need a Warren G…

I would love

To tag Carr
Sign Orton
And trade Cassel/Carr to STL with some draft picks for their #2
Cassel can be a solid backup for Bradford (who always gets hurt) and well…they really need a CB.

Those who didn't vote QB

please share some of your drugs with me.

I think the reason people chose OT/NT over QB is because they know

the reality is…. our GM probably won’t do anything about it :(

The question isn't which direction you think the Chiefs will go.

agreed

The obvious pick is QB.

But I’m with Brad. They aren’t going to do anything there, so why focusing on it? Wish in one hand…

Because that's the poll question.

Forgive me.

I will the common sense features of my brain to cool it.

but how will Pioli now what to do if we don't tell him

The obvious pick is OT.

Stanzi, our new starter, will need some beef.

Maybe it's denial....................

LadyChief - February 22, 2012 reply

Because I'm far too sensible to disregard my mock offseason just to answer a simple question.

And using resources for a QB would take much of the predictability and fun out of my mock offseason.

The poll said nothing about the draft.

It just asked the biggest position of need. You can think it’s QB, but still not want to trade up in the draft for one.

Yes, thus my sarcasm.

Those who DID vote QB

have not yet wrapped their tiny little minds around the greatness that is the Stanzi.

Sadly that is 64% of the fans on here

QB by far

1.QB
2.NT
3.OL

kcchiefs2782 - February 22, 2012 via Android app reply

QB!

chief913-816 - February 22, 2012 via mobile reply

Quick Question did anyone see Carl Nicks Contract Request:

He’s good and we all know this but everyone is reporting he wants a “record setting” deal…..so does anyone else feel like we need to go ahead and scratch him off the list of potential FA’s?

Njohnson816 - February 22, 2012 reply

Yeah.

O-line is important. But if we’re going to break the bank I’d prefer it be for a position with more of an impact than left guard. I.e. quarterback.

That's what i meant

I think if he’s looking for “Record Setting” we pass simply because we want to fill a couple of needs in FA and not just one

Njohnson816 - February 22, 2012 reply

I 100% agree.

agreed

the greatest OG that ever played won’t carry a team to the SB but a moderate upgrade at QB would make that possible.

yes

This is a very deep guard class. No reason to break the bank on a guy who is 28, even though he is a great talent. Never forget, Nix was a 5th round pick

Its gotta be QB, We would be a much better all around team with QB hands down and its the #1 most important position on the field. QB, OL, DT !!

Jeremy Daniel - February 22, 2012 reply

QB is the biggest need and there isn't even a close number 2

Nope.

The O-Line needs to be upgraded. Wiegs was born in the 1800’s, Ryan Lilja is smaller than I am, and Barry Richardson is a fucking turnstyle.

We have the Stanzi. We need beef on the line.

Stanzi is a 5th round pick

You can’t count on him

Change the poll to

After Qb what is the Chief’s biggest need!

Redberry - February 22, 2012 reply

The QB position is a work in progress...

some of you have really short memories regarding the awesomeness that filled our QB position under Edwards/Peterson before Pioli got to KC.

Cassel was the single hottest free agent QB on the market. Three years and about five OC’s later, it is becoming apparent that he is not the QBOTF in KC. He is the QB of NOW, however, yet Pioli still makes moves (Stanzi, Orton) to shore that up while the search for the QBOTF continues.

Y’all seem to think franchise QB’s are a dime a dozen, and KC simply refuses to go get one. It doesn’t work like that. QB is a need, as in we need a third one going into camp.

There isn't a QB on the roster

That can win a SB