Garrett Ellwood - Getty Images
The Kansas City Chiefs, whether it's head coach Romeo Crennel or GM Scott Pioli, have indicated that they will talk to free-agent-to-be Kyle Orton about coming back to Kansas City. They've both cautioned that "it takes two to marry", which could be a sign Orton is unlikely to come back, but they're at least going to talk to him.
After Orton's solid performance in his three-game stint as the Chiefs starter, we figured other teams would be interested in him as well.
And news comes down today that at least one team could be interested in him.
NFL Network's Michael Lombardi, speaking on Bill Simmons' podcast, said that the buzz down at the Senior Bowl was that the Washington Redskins were going to show some interest in Orton.
Clark Hunt talked with 810 WHB's Border Patrol this morning and said the Chiefs won't hesitate at the cost of acquiring a player in free agency (or, for you Brandon Carr and Dwayne Bowe fans, the cost of keeping their own players).
But just because they're willing to spend the cash doesn't necessarily mean it's the right move for Orton. I'd very much like to have Orton back in KC but he would, at a minimum, be facing a quarterback competition against Matt Cassel. In Washington, he would instantly be the best quarterback on the roster (depending on what happens in the draft).
So, we'll see what happens. But if there's competition for Orton, I think that means he's less likely to be in KC.
(H/T DC Sports Bog)
0 recs | 271 comments
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
BigRedChief - February 3, 2012
I know, huh!
/passing box of tissue
upamtn - February 3, 2012
/using tissues
Uh, you need to leave the room if I’m going to do this.
/unzipping pants
The Gentry - February 3, 2012
whuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut?
I was offering the unused ones …
upamtn - February 3, 2012
That tissue passing got out of hand in a hurry.
NigerianNightmare - February 3, 2012
Thats because its better in the tissue than in the hand.
Huston09 - February 3, 2012 via mobile
I approve of this thread so far.
/using empty tissue box
What? Last night was corned beef and cabbage!
mugglemage - February 6, 2012
I think we really need to keep Orton
Hail2DaChiefs - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Orton
was so good he only had 1 TD for the 3 games…oh and 2 ints
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
And what's your solution? Cassel?
Orton is our only real hope.
Will we get Luck/RGIII? No.
Are there any other rookies that can start in year one? No.
Will Peyton be healthy? Who knows.
If so, will we get him? Doubtful.
What does that leave you with?
TheScootness - February 3, 2012
Jason Campbell!
Ha I’m kidding. But seriously.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
In order.
Probably not, but I’d disagree that there’s no chance. I’ll keep saying it, if Pioli thinks RGIII is the guy, he has the ammo and almost certainly a willing trade partner should he want to trade up to get him. And he should.
Probably not, but you never know when someone like a T.J. Yates is going to surprise you. Initially, Newton and Gabbert were regarded as the only QBs ready to compete for a starting job as rookies. It turns out Gabbert was awful and guys like Locker, Ponder, and especially Andy Dalton surprised people with how good they looked. So if Romeo wants to let someone like a Tannehill fight it out with Matt Cassel in training camp, I’d be fine with it.
Agreed.
You could say the same thing, to a lesser extent, about Orton. It’s highly likely that somebody who wouldn’t make him compete for the starting job in training camp will go after Orton in the off-season. And I’m not sure the Chiefs did anything to treat Orton so wonderfully that he’s dying to stay here.
When it comes to Manning, in terms of cap space, team need, readiness to compete, etc. Kansas City is right up there with San Francisco in terms of the best fits for him. If Pioli goes after him, I’d bet our chances would be better than you might think.
By my count, it leaves us with Cassel, Stanzi, RGIII, Tannehill or another 1st/2nd round QB, Manning, or any one of several FA QBs (including guys like Jason Campbell and Matt Flynn) as alternatives to Orton.
Now I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to re-sign Orton. But let’s not pretend he’s the only possible option for the Chiefs moving forward.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
Good points
He’s not the only option, but it seems he’s the most attainable at this point. Believe me, I’d rather roll with another guy that’s more talented than him but I don’t see anything else panning out.
TheScootness - February 3, 2012
Orton's competition
in KC it’d be Matt Cassel.
in Washington it’d be Rex Grossman.
I’m not going to venture to say where he’d rather play or who he’d rather play for/with, but I think he enjoyed his time here and we’d definitely be high on his list of possible destinations. I’d also like to see what coaches can do with him. He at least has a good arm and Cassel does not.
Chief Willie Wildcat - February 3, 2012
I like the notion of Tannehill learning for a year...
Cassel isn’t useles, by any standard. With a good O-line and a running game, he proved in ‘10 he can take apart a defense. He’ll never be great, but niether was Dawson. Lenny was smart, had time in the pocket, and the ability to hit some good recievers on intermediate routes, but he wasn’t “Aaron Rogers.” Cassel can win games – he can win the division. Maybe a playoff game or 2. “Tanny” can learn!
David Winton - February 17, 2012
he wasnt here for personal stats but to try and win games
Willie Beamon - February 3, 2012
They can take Orton
We’ll take Manning.
KcChiefsMo - February 3, 2012
This
Keep Cassel as a backup…
AnkenyChiefsFan - February 3, 2012
Even if we do sign Manning
there are no promises. You’d have to finish Free Agency and the draft with 4 QB’s on the roster.
Chief Willie Wildcat - February 3, 2012
RGIII and Manning?
wiegmale - February 3, 2012
Honestly I wouldn't be too opposed to this
Having RG3 study under PeyPey a few years and then take the reigns would be perfect. Of course this eat up a huge amount of salary cap at the QB position.
That said no chance in hell this is going to happen.
Scaryclouds - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Manning will be expensive, but not that expensive.
And neither will RGIII thanks to the new rookie wage scale. It would definitely be doable.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
You guys seriously must be high
you think there’s a remote chance we sign Manning AND trade up in the draft for RGIII? Seriously fellas…
Chief Willie Wildcat - February 3, 2012
No, I don't think it will happen at all.
I’m just saying we could afford it.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
So be it
DrDC - February 3, 2012
We must be in a worse situation than I orginally thought
To be clamoring for Orton instead of Cassel. I am holding hopes that we get something better at QB this offseason, but I would prefer someone who is at a step above Cassel, and not someone who is just slightly better than Cassel.
dbaty7 - February 3, 2012
I wouldn't even say Orton is better than Cassel
I honestly think they are about even. I think Orton has a bigger arm, and reads through progressions better, but I think Cassel is better taking care of the ball.
aasukisuki - February 3, 2012
true story
but either way its sad for us. I feel disappointment in that aspect, but who knows maybe we get Saunders, he employs a different Offensive Scheme, and Cassel excels. Its a big if, but maybe its possible.
dbaty7 - February 3, 2012
Even though
they both have almost exactly the same INT% and number of fumbles.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
Hey now
stop throwing your facts in peoples face
KingChief - February 3, 2012
I know.
Just get sick of people acting like Orton doesn’t take care of the ball, but Cassel does.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
And if Cassel "taking care of the ball" is him getting scared because he doesn't understand the coverage and checking down to his RB for 2-3 yards
then I’m not sure that’s a plus, anyway.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
Cassel taking care of the ball = multiple 3 and outs..
RA_ChiefsFan - February 3, 2012
Here here
BDCinSA - February 3, 2012
Cassel has about 1/3 more fumbles per pass attempt.
Int’s per pass attempt, Cassel has something like 1.5% fewer.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Cassel 1.68:1 TD:Int ratio
Orton 1.40:1 TD:Int ratio
Cassel: 82.5 Career Rating
Orton: 79.4 Career Rating
Let me know if you want some more facts.
aasukisuki - February 3, 2012
Josh Freeman - 1.1:1 TD:Int, 79.0 career rating.
Is Cassel better than Freeman, too?
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
yes!!!!!!
Sinny - February 3, 2012
And look, here's my very faaaaavorite QB in the World!
Cutler – 1.36:1 TD:Int, 84.5 career rating
Gee, looks like Cassel might be a little better than Cutler, too.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
I'm not saying Cassel is a great quarterback
I’m not arguing that. I’m saying that whether Orton stays or not isn’t going to be that big of a factor, IMO.
aasukisuki - February 3, 2012
And I'm saying that the stats you base your argument on are ridiculously unsuitable for comparing QBs.
Those particular stats make Cassel and Cutler look like very similar QBs.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
The discussion is taking care of the ball.
Cassel’s INT% is 2.5 and Orton’s is 2.6, virtually the same. Cassel has fumbled the ball 33 times to Orton’s 30, in similar playing time.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
Look at the fumbles per pass attempt.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
that’s because Cassel can only throw a 10yd pass
Billy Wickham - February 12, 2012
I will take slightly better than cassell over cassell anyday.
you really cant complain about getting a guy better than we currently have even if its just slightly, even though in your eyes its slightly in other peoples eyes is a huge improvement.
not saying orton is great but if thats an upgrade and the only upgrade we are really capable of getting I will take it with a smile.
the great thunderlips - February 3, 2012
I most certainly can complain about settling for a guy s thats arguably slightly better than we have now...
…if do that means we sign that guy to a multi year deal and count on yet another mediocre QB as the future of the team.. instead of actually going out and trying to get someone that’f actually good…. or that has the potential to be great.
If your car breaks down all the time.. and just barely manages to get you to work and back on a regular basis… and you decide to invest in a different car…. would you settle for one that’s just slightly better (at it’s best) …. with the same basic history of leaving it’s owner stranded as the one you have now…… or would you try to get the best damn car your money can buy?
Signing Orton to a multi year deal amount to settling for ’81 Dodge Dart to upgrade your ’78 AMC Gremlin.
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
Smokescreen
Pretty sure they are going to do whatever it takes to snag RGIII at the #3 pick.
aasukisuki - February 3, 2012
Fisher just told people the #2 would be available.
dbaty7 - February 3, 2012
Really?
I’m not saying you’re crazy or anything, but I must ask, what makes you think that?
A move like that seems very un Pioli like. Tho I guess I could be surprised.
I also don’t see them luring in Peyton Manning, I think he’d choose a larger market over KC.
F250 - February 3, 2012
I think he was talking about the Redskins...
OnlyKCFanNVA - February 3, 2012
yes.
aasukisuki - February 3, 2012
Okay, gotcha, that would make more sense.
F250 - February 3, 2012
Why a larger market?
He’s obviously shown he can be the biggest moneymaker in the NFL playing for a small market team. Heck, a larger market would just come with more media pressure.
UNIPanther - February 3, 2012
They probably know...
that the Browns can outbid them. With Miami likely to land Flynn, the Chiefs or 49ers likely to land Manning or keep their incumbents, the Redskins will be shit out of luck. Their plan B would probably be Orton and to draft Tannehill in a trade down or a trade up from their 2nd. Hell they might be able to snag him with their 2nd rounder.
Crown Chief - February 3, 2012
The Redskins have a long and distinguished History of throwing HUGE sums of money at what they think will be instant fixes.
I wouldn’t put it past Snyder to throw more money at Peyton Manning than the 100 million he tossed at Albert Haynesworth.
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
Poor Rex Grossman
tipof_arrowhead - February 3, 2012
wont be the first time
Rex lost his job to Orton
BDCinSA - February 3, 2012
Might be reading into it
But if you combine all the comments that Clark//Pioli/Crennel keep saying it sure sounds like a run at Manning to me.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
I am hoping he is "football ready"
And that we can at least make a play for him.
dbaty7 - February 3, 2012
I would support Clark/Pioli spending 20M$ to find out.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
he could find out that I'm NOT football ready for a whole lot less :-)
upamtn - February 3, 2012
Not before someone else snaps him up.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
NVM just read it how it was intended!
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
you mean $30 million.. for 1 year.. right?
I’m pretty sure Peyton was gonna make a $28 million dollar bonus check + $9 Million in salary for 2012. (I’ll have to look it up again to confirm the salary)….
I don’t think he’s gonna take a $17 million dollar pay cut for 1 season.
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
So Joe Montana part 2?
A couple of good years and then right back to square 1?
RA_ChiefsFan - February 3, 2012
Yeah, this is my concern.
If we get Manning and win with him, how then do we go about getting a QBotF?
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Draft one with potential in later rounds
And develop him as best you can for a couple years. Sure, he won’t learn a ton without being in the game, but it worked for Rodgers and others. There’s really not another option.
TheScootness - February 3, 2012
I was talking about this with Mills the other day, and looked up all the "successful" QBs drafted after the first round from 2008 back to I think 2003...
I went for those years to get a recent read on things, and so the youngest guys would have had a chance to show up by now.
It REALLY wasn’t pretty.
Point is, we do have a chance to draft a franchise QB after the first round, but it looks like a really shitty chance.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Draft one in the first round.
And still let him sit behind Pey Pey for a couple of years.
Win now. Win later.
#winning
TRSChief - February 3, 2012
When was the last time a QB drafted #32 won the Superbowl?
/ridiculous artificial scenarios and examples
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Funny you should ask
Drew Brees was selected number 32 overall. So quite recently in fun scenario land.
TRSChief - February 3, 2012
Great! Now we just need to sign him.
I hear his contract is coming due.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Let's make this happen.
TRSChief - February 3, 2012
But if the Chiefs were willing to pay a first round QB (like RG3) $22 million....
…AND pay Peyton his $30 million… for a couple years….
Why wouldn’t the Colts just do that and Keep Manning?
If the thought process is that the Colts will cut Manning because they aren’t going to pay that big of a chunk of the salary cap to 1 position… wouldn’t the same logic hold for another small market team like the Chiefs?
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
cause that's worked so well for the Chiefs for the last 30 years?
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
Stanzi, duh!
GaryfromIA - February 3, 2012
yeah baby!
:-)
neiowakcfan - February 3, 2012
Stanzi before Orton.. yes sir.. sign me up for that.
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
Watch the World’s Greatest Athlete……..that is where
Billy Wickham - February 12, 2012
As opposed to all the squares since then?
There’s no reason why Manning should get in the way of continuing to also build for the long term. It’s not either/or.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
Washington is moving on from Peyton
Because they know he’s coming to kc
BJ Kissel - February 3, 2012 via mobile
haaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
so, that sea air finally eating away at your brain, huh? :-)
upamtn - February 3, 2012
I took a few medical classes from the University of Phoenix
Pretty sure from what I learned that Peyton will be fine. Just needs to rest and rotate between ice and heat.
BJ Kissel - February 3, 2012 via mobile
finally, we have a REAL Doctor on AP!
upamtn - February 3, 2012
I've watched enough to TV to be able to tell you with 100% confidence...
Its not lupus.
chiefsandcigars - February 3, 2012
It's never lupus.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
I would bet money when the series finale comes around
it will be lupus.
chiefsandcigars - February 3, 2012
It should be.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
It was lupus in an episode a few years ago.
A magician got it. They even made a joke about it finally being lupus after all these years.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
He hasn't seemed to want to with the chiefs
So I’m ok with him leaving. he is if anything only slightly better than cassel so lets do better. do I know what move we should or will make…. no
KCNorm - February 3, 2012
This^^^
Let’s not settle for a slightly more or equally mediocre QB than what we have. We don’t need another 3 seasons of that.
Spiderwomn69 - February 3, 2012
If the alternative is sticking with Cassel
Sign Orton. Simple as that.
old_school - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Yeah Just That Simple
Great way for another at least 3 years of having a mediocre QB. Way to be consistent KC.
Spiderwomn69 - February 3, 2012
Manning.... Oh Boy
well then Charles will touch the ball less…
Hope KC get better ricevers….
And be ready to change everything to fit him for only 2-3 years….
Pitt or the Pats nevers had to change there system for the QB’s they get….
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
Since we have no OC
we have no system
KingChief - February 3, 2012
System is still there
KC still has a playbook….. but when Manning leaves KC…Then KC needs to find another great one to fill his shoes…back to square one. It happened to Indy this year right
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
The playbook leaves with the OC
whoever comes to KC is not gonna be like, “that playbook was so awesome, I’m gonna scrap mine and use what they were doing.”
KingChief - February 3, 2012
Muir...
he only took what was still there… look at the formations… it was still Weis playbook
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
That was nowhere near Weiss playbook
KingChief - February 3, 2012
It was the Haley playbook.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
Sorry
Looking at tape right now it looks like the same formations as 2010
It was Weis playbook…
But Haily didnt know a thing about match ups…
Also Haily got in the way…
After he left. Well we saw the difference.
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
Hailey Mills?
upamtn - February 3, 2012
You can say any team runs the same formation so that must someone elses playbook
it’s what you run out of that formation, that’s what made it Haley’s/Muirs playbook
KingChief - February 3, 2012
There are only so many formations
And it was HALEY, not Weis, that designed the overall offensive scheme for the last 3 seasons. Weis/Muir may have ran it, but didn’t design it.
TheScootness - February 3, 2012
Where's your inside info come from?
Sure seemed like Weis’s offense last season. ’10, that is.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
Yes, Weis was running the offense
But the overall design/scheme/playbook was Haley. Do you really think that he’d let Weis completely change all that he’d put in place? No. Remember, he fired Chan Gailey so he could install his own.
They both ran the EP system and I’m sure that Haley didn’t let him come in and tear it down. Also, Haley stated that he hired Muir to maintain what they’d been doing from the year before.
TheScootness - February 3, 2012
Dude that's the system Weis ran in New England.
I am like 99% sure.
Our offense in 2010 was definitely similar to what New England did in the first half of the decade, only here his QB wasn’t as smart and there was obviously a more explosive running game.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
I hated the firing of Gailey but his offensive philosophies are radically different than the ball control stuff we run.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
I call BS.
JacinB - February 3, 2012
Closer to this?
TRSChief - February 3, 2012
Charles might get the ball a lot more in the passing game.
Anyway, I think Addai gets about as many carries as Charles, around 15/game. I bet Manning would be thrilled to have Charles.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
I bet Charles would be thrilled to see 6-7 man fronts
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Hell yeah.
Charles is a very good receiver, too. People forget that because he’s almost never out in the pattern except as a dump-off.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Wow
Ok…
-So? He’s great when he touches the ball but we limit him anyway for a reason.
-We have a great corps of “ricevers” assuming we keep Bowe
-Why the hell would you keep the current system? What has it done for us?
-And when is the last time they changed QB’s? They only change if the starter goes down in-season, so it’s no wonder they keep the same system. And even then, it’s tweaked for the backup guy.
TheScootness - February 3, 2012
Hey,! What about Favre!
ouch, .. okay, ouch no need to pelt a guy, ouch,.. just a ..nevermind
tomachop - February 3, 2012
He would be the best QB on the roster here too
KingChief - February 3, 2012
But here he might be worried about Pioli being married to Cassel
Hopefully for our sake he takes Pioli at his word and knows theres an open competition here because I think he would believe he could win a fair fight.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Fixed
TheScootness - February 3, 2012
I disagree
Orton has a better arm, makes great reads but where are the points? I want a QB who scores TDs not one who just puts up tons of yards and then falls short in the red zone.
Spiderwomn69 - February 3, 2012
He did have 2 dropped TD and didn't really know the playbook or have good timing with the WR yet
KingChief - February 3, 2012
At least Orton makes it to the red zone
I’m all for getting someone better than both of them, but my worry is that it isn’t even an option.
old_school - February 3, 2012 via mobile
3 and outs are better
DrDC - February 3, 2012
Ortons offenses have scored well over the past few years not best in the league but he hasnt worked with a ton of legit wepons either
Willie Beamon - February 3, 2012
If I was Orton
I’d look elsewhere. Why would you want to come back and “compete” with Cassel when you’ve clearly shown you’re a better QB than him. Also, it’s well known that Orton looks awesome in practices and even if he out performs Cassel… he won’t get the starting gig.
Brad-KC - February 3, 2012
Could be a competition in name only.
Crennel has clearly shown how much he likes Orton.
bossmanham - February 3, 2012
You forgot Haley left
KingChief - February 3, 2012
fair point
Brad-KC - February 3, 2012
If he's clearly shown he's better than him.
Then he shouldn’t be worried about a competition between the two.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
That's the point of my post
Even if he’s better, I think Pioli will make Crennel keep Cassel in there
Brad-KC - February 3, 2012
Why would he do that?
That makes no sense.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
In fairness to him
His relationship or whatever it is that Cassel has with Pioli might scare him off because he may think it wont be a fair open competition. If he takes Pioli at face value though he shouldnt be worried about beating Cassel.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Correct me if I'm wrong
but wasn’t there some “in between” 5th and 6th round draft pick we’d get from the Broncos if we didn’t sign Orton?
Brad-KC - February 3, 2012
If Orton signs elsewhere this year
We would get a compensation pick next year depending on how many FAs we sign/lose. Could go as high as a third if Orton really tears it up.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
thx
Brad-KC - February 3, 2012
No problem
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
but that's only if Cassel is our starter
if we lose a QB in free agency and gain a QB in free agency we get nothing
IPWT2009 - February 3, 2012
Isn't position related.
Its a big convoluted equaton that weighs in the loss/gain of free agents in general and the impact they’ve made during the season.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
I'm sure he has to be thrilled about trying to replace Rex Grossman AGAIN
CapsLockKey - February 3, 2012
Certainly anything can happen.
But I’d be good money that Orton isn’t in KC next season. Even if not the Redskins, somebody will be willing to give him a starting job, and in KC he’ll have to compete with Pioli’s special favorite, Matt Cassel. Even if he beats him out, fans will be calling for Cassel every time Orton has a bad game. The most popular guy in every city without a franchise QB is the guy holding the clipboard.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
What makes you think Cassel is Pioli's special favorite?
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
Nothing in particular. It's just a phrase I've kind of picked up from an episode of Doctor Who.
That being said, Cassel is clearly more of Pioli’s guy than Orton is. Bringing in Cassel from New England was practically his first move as GM.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
Palko>
tomachop - February 3, 2012
I see what you did there.
cheapham - February 3, 2012
I see what you didn't do there.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
so they won't hesitate to spend money on a free agent???
Peyton Manning!!!!!!!
njchiefs - February 3, 2012 via Android app
Meh, let him go
If I’m Pioli, this is my list of QB targets in order of priority for this offseason:
1. Andrew Luck
2. RGIII
3. Peyton Manning
4. Matt Flynn (assuming the rumor is true that GB won’t be able to tag him)
5. Kyle Orton
6. Someone in the draft besides Luck/RGIII
CapsLockKey - February 3, 2012
agree with all but one on that list
No need to go after Matt Flynn, we already have a one hit wonder in Cassel and I dont want to go down that “but as a back up he did great stepping in” road AGAIN
BDCinSA - February 3, 2012
Good list, but I'd change the order around.
1. Luck
2. Griffin
3. Manning
4. Someone else high in the draft
5. Matt Flynn
6. Kyle Orton
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
Let me try
1. Griffin
2. Luck
3. Stanzi
4. Flynn
5. Cassel.
6. Manning… if and ONLY if he comes with his own team of doctors and medical supplies, a full set of neck braces, and a contract that stipulates he will replace Jim Zorn as QB coach for the remainder of his dea if he misses so much as 1/2 a games due to injury.
7. Some other Lottery ticket of a QB in the bottom half of the draft that will probably end up being a wasted pick
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
The problem is, that's probably not Pioli's list
and if we end up with Cassel again, we will wish we had Orton.
Kind of reminds me of last year. It was reported that he went after Shanle. They couldn’t get him, so they seemed to stand pat on O line, which was absolute horseshit. I can very well see Pioli giving up quickly on the search if he only has Orton in mind and loses the bidding war.
old_school - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Pioli's list
Cassel……………..infinity……..
tomachop - February 3, 2012
I kind of think Pioli might feel the heat.
I think he knows this team needs a capable QB. The problem is that it’s so hard to get one.
But I actually believe ‘em this time when they say they’ll be aggressive about it. Should be a fun ride can’t wait to see what happens.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
I hope you're right about Pioli being more agressive
Still, the most realistic options I see at this point are Orton and Flynn.
old_school - February 3, 2012 via mobile
If he doesnt want to compete on a team with a legitimate chance at something great...
And instead would rather go be the definite #1 on a shitty Skins team then go ahead. That would be his aweful decision. And to me, it would signal that he’s not confident enough in his own abilities to beat out Cassel, who’s proven he’s mediocre at best.
Chiefs08Matt - February 3, 2012 via mobile
There's also the speculation and hints that he doesn't WANT to beat out Cassel because he likes the guy.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Well that might be the dumbest rumor I've ever heard.
He wants to limit his opportunities to land one of the 32 starting QB positions in the NFL because He doesn’t want to compete with somebody he ‘likes’? Never heard of a professional athlete that didn’t want a starting job just because the guy in front of him was a good guy. Total nonsense
Chiefs08Matt - February 3, 2012 via mobile
sounds like a rumor from AP
upamtn - February 3, 2012
Started with his quote that "this is Matt's team."
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
and all this time I thought it was Clark's team
upamtn - February 3, 2012
And we're all forgetting
The Chiefs quarterback is Matt’s “natural position”.
old_school - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Really?
Because I thought Matt’s “natural position” was TE.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
He need to tell Vassel it's business and nothing personal
KingChief - February 3, 2012
Vaccel=Cassel
KingChief - February 3, 2012
Vaccel=Vassel=Cassel?
old_school - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Vaccel=Vassel=Vassal=Cassel?
Steve_Chiefs - February 3, 2012
A Castle Vassal
Steve_Chiefs - February 3, 2012
Something like that
been a long day
KingChief - February 3, 2012
Luck is as good as gone.
There are already Colts fans with Luck #12 jerseys printed up and for good reason. Luck will be a Colt.
RG3 will also be gone before we pick. Looking like he’ll be a Brown. Definitely not a Chief unless we are very, very aggressive and lose a lot for him.
Peyton Manning, if he is a free agent, will have multiple suitors. Yeah, I’d probably take him even if he’s not quite 100%, but you’re getting a maximum of 3-4 years out the guy and he will cost a whole lot of money.
Matt Flynn… is an interesting idea, but we just did that with Cassel. I really doubt that’s the well we go to again. Pioli will be a little more concerned about his job than to go with an unproven free agent backup at QB again after it’s already failed.
I think if Orton has a chance to start somewhere else as opposed to a chance to compete here, then he is gone. It’s not a huge loss, but our other options are all a pretty big stretch.
Fuck it. Peyton Manning to KC 2012.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
I hope Luck changes his # from 12
so all them people that bought jerseys last year will have to buy a new one
KingChief - February 3, 2012
Haha me too I guess.
Sure, why not? lol that would be pretty funny.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
Definitely!
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
Having Peyton Manning
on the Chiefs is the single most IGNORANT idea for the Chiefs as a whole. First, I’m going to say that he’s going to cost us somewhere around 20 mils per (and that’s being on the extremely low end of the spectrum).
Well, some of you might say, WTF does that have to do with us? We have the cap room…..
Yeah, we do. But do we have enough Cap room to keep BOTH Bowe & Carr after signing a 34 yr superstar QB? I don’t think we do with the amount of money Bowe & Carr wants.
So the decision really isn’t about getting Manning, but more about if we want to to keep the young ascending players in house. My money is on Pioli keeping Bowe & Carr as the priority than paying Manning 20+ million per for 3 years. Not going to happen boys. Quite frankly, it’s a incredibly STUPID idea.
kaorder1 - February 3, 2012
We have enough to pay all three.
And comfortably especially with Dorsey coming off the books next year.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
I'm not so sure
b/c there are O-line issues with the Chiefs also. What’s the point of having Manning when he doesn’t have the protection? That’s something else the Chiefs have to get in FA or draft (which takes time to develop).
Manning is a dream and he won’t want to come. He’s going to the 9ers with a stud Off. line and decent receivers.
kaorder1 - February 3, 2012
When was the last time Manning had an oline better then what we currently have?
We only have one realy issue on the oline and its a cheap fix through the draft or free agency. Other then that the line needs depth, which again comes at very little cost.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
the
chiefs won’t pay Manning the money he wants after they picked up Cassels money from last year. keep dreaming. the team that makes the most sense is the 9ers. Especially for Peyton.
kaorder1 - February 3, 2012
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Even if Hunt is even cheaper than people like to say
he still has to recognize how much money Peyton Manning would generate for the Chiefs.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
Yup
The merchandise alone would be crazy not to mention you wouldn’t see anymore empty yellow seats on Sundays.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Isn't Manning 32 years old?
Steve_Chiefs - February 3, 2012
35
36 when the season starts
KingChief - February 3, 2012
Kids these days and their ball games.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
says that every year
then in private tells Pioli,“If you just listened to a word I just said I”ll fire your ass."
tomachop - February 3, 2012
20 million a year?
aaron rodgers makes 20 million if you including all the bonus. Manning isnt goign to command such a salary, and I dont think he will ask for such either. He is the absolute team player.
andrew33 - February 3, 2012
Well I disagree about Manning being the ultimate team player.
I think you misspelled Tom Brady.
Brady restructures his deal on a regular basis to make room for the players that will improve his team. Manning’s contract is so ridiculous that it’s arguable whether or not you can even expect to field a truly competitive team while paying one player that much.
Tom Brady coaches his teammates up. Not just the QBs, but everyone he can help. He works hard to improve the entire team’s chance at winning, not just his own chances of success. Peyton Mannng refuses to let backups take practice snaps. He wants all of them, and the Colts let him have them. OOPS!
Tom Brady is an excellent leader, who beats himself up over every small mistake that could detriment his team. Take the Broncos playoff game. Brady decimated their defense, but after the one ball he floated too high that found its way into the waiting arms of a safety, he was pounding himself in the head and calling himself and idiot. If Manning makes a mistake, he blames everyone around him. His O-line, his receivers. Everyone else. There are constant examples of him cussing out his teammates after he throws a pick, because it couldn’t possibly be Pey-Pey’s fault.
No, Manning is not the ultimate team player. Great quarterback, yes. But selfish and lacking accountability, also.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
Manning
just negotiated a 5 yr / $90 million salary last summer that wasn’t even complete before the beginning of training camp. He’s going to command top dollar and you know it.
Chief Willie Wildcat - February 3, 2012
How do you figure that Manning would possibly be making as much as he was with the Colts?
It’s borderline impossible.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
Yeah, a lot has changed since then.
Why on earth would an old, injured Manning command the biggest salary in NFL history after his last team just cut him because he was so expensive?
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
because he can?
might try?
tomachop - February 3, 2012
If the Raiders had any picks left in the draft this decade..
It would be a no-brainer for them
tomachop - February 3, 2012
lotsa no-brainers for those guys though
tomachop - February 3, 2012
Look, Manning's not signing for the veteran minimum or anything.
But he’s not getting paid like Brady or Brees anymore. Those days are gone. He’ll be expensive, but he’s not going to command a highest in the NFL type salary.
Even if he did, though, we could afford it.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
can anyone tell me
if you save money under the cap one year can you use that money in following years over the cap? Or is one year one year, never took cap-iology
tomachop - February 3, 2012
It's pretty complicated, and only a few people completely understand it.
But the cap is basically the cap every year. I think you’re allowed to exceed it by a couple million one year depending on what you’ve done in other years, but as a rule, no.
There are a bunch of different tricks in regards to what counts against the cap though. For example, from my understanding the contracts of Matt Cassel, Derrick Johnson, and Jamaal Charles counted heavily against the cap last year and their cap numbers are going to be ridiculously low this year as a result.
MtHammer - February 3, 2012
Manning can make Austin Collie look like Bowe
Worst case scenario if you sign Manning, franchise and trade Bowe for draft picks and sign Reggie Wayne as a free agent
Chiefs_KC - February 3, 2012
Austin
can catch
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
If bowe has to leave
I would love to see Chiefs draft Jerrell Robinson from ASU. Looks very similar to Bowe and has similar skill set.
andrew33 - February 3, 2012
Wow I think you're a bit off on that contract estimate.
That’s around what he’s being paid on his current deal, by an owner who constantly insisted on making Manning the highest paid player in the league. If he is a free agent at anything less than 100% of what he was, there’s no way he gets that kind of deal.
I’m no expert on this stuff, but I’ve been feeling more down in the 15 million range than 20. 20 just doesn’t make sense for any team.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
ask
the Redskins that.
kaorder1 - February 3, 2012
why is 20 mill on the low end
he makes that much now. his salary will decrease after he gets cut
IPWT2009 - February 3, 2012
no, his BONUS in 2012 is $28 million dollars.
THEN you have to add his salary on top of that.
Manning was gonna make in the neighborhood of $35-$40 million in 2012.
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
We can pay Manning, Bowe, and Carr
and be under the budget of of Hunt spent last year.
Crown Chief - February 3, 2012
O line issues
Everyone wants to get rid of the QB Cassel.
Lets see why he has done a great job so far?
1) O line needs to give him time? KC had the smallest O line the last 3 years
2) He has not had a OC for more than 1 year
3) Only 1 of the 3 OC were any good and Cassel delivered till Todd took over in the ens of 2010…
4) 2011 didn’t have any running game to support the passing
5) did i already talk about the O line
Cassel is not Elite but not to many QB’s are in the NFL
Even going after Flynn might turn out like Kevin Kobb or Charlie Whitehurst
For Orton to me Orton isnt confident enough to beat out Cassel because Cassel is that good.
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
Name 6 starting QBs
you rather take Cassel over.
And Cassel is such a terrible QB when you watch him play. Orton beat Denver, GB, and should have beaten Oakland (if it wasnt for 2 blocked fg).
andrew33 - February 3, 2012
The D
The D beat them…. and Orton threw only 1 TD with 2 ints… and Todd wasnt around to kill the Offensive play calling… now give Cassel a chance without Todd
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
The D beat them because Orton and the offense moved the ball
And there were limited 3 and outs which gave the defense rest for the first time all season. It’s all tied together.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Was Todd still around?
Think about it… Cassel delivered when Todd didnt get in the way…
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
Explain 2010 then?
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
schedule
ding ding ding!
tomachop - February 3, 2012
We can make up excuses for him all day.
It doesn’t change the fact that he has so many shortcomings as a QB and we can do far better at that position.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
it also doens't change the fact that Orton has been just as mediocre of a QB for his entire Career that Cassel has...
and that if Orton signs a multi year deal with the Chiefs… this web site will most likely spend all of next off season making all those same excuses for Orton that have been made for Cassel in the past.
Texas Chief - February 3, 2012
Todd Haley
doesnt affect Cassels crappy accuracy. He also doesnt affect his lack of QB awareness, his inability to read defenses, and the way he stares down his receivers. Haley also doesnt affect his pathetic rate of 3rd down conversions, and the way he throws 2 yard dinks when we need 5 yards. Cassel also is prone to int and fumbles, and cant play in big games.
Cassel just sucks get over it. Fans need to understand we won the division despite Cassel and because of Charles and his 6.4 yards per carry. I dont think a lot of people understand what Charles did, or maybe they just didnt see a lot of games that year. Best play that Cassel made was his way overthrown ball to moeaki against SF or him handing/pitching the ball off the Charles. Cassel choked against the raiders and the ravens, and honestly showed nothing all year. From the game against the Browns to where we almost tied with buffalo, Cassel was a disaster hidden by the talent around him.
andrew33 - February 3, 2012
3rd Downs
This i think was the most noticeable thing with Orton. With Cassel if it was third and anything short/medium/long, you just didn’t feel like they were going to get it and it was always a “might as well just punt it on third down” feeling. With Orton that was so much better.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Yeah
it was an absolute miracle to see Cassel convert. It also was a miracle to see Cassel over 100 yards during half time and with more than 10 completions.
andrew33 - February 3, 2012
Actually...
If memory serves, we led the league in converting third and longs this year with Cassel. In fact, under Cassel we were second to NO in converting third and seven or longer.
http://www.kansas.com/2011/10/16/2064078/statistics-detail-chiefs-struggles.html
Excerpt: Strangely, the Chiefs have been better in converting third-and-long, ranking second only to New Orleans on third and seven and longer, than on third and five or less.
So as long as we keep our third downs at manageable seven or more yards rather than fewer than five we will convert more with Cassel.
Zif - February 3, 2012
There is this thing called a gameplan . It was never about ORTON I dont know why everyone keeps mentioning individual stats knowing full well there was no way we would allow him to pad his stats at the teams expenses
If Orton has 4 tds passes and no picks but we lose all three because hes trying to pad his stats would than then make him more desirable ?
Romeo comments about Ortons speaks volume because it gives you an idea of what was going on behind the scenes
Orton had every reason to try and pad his stats but instead executed the game plan to and put us in position to make the playoffs .
If someone had told us prior to the Steelers game that starting Orton would put us a unblocked fg attempt away from winning the division and making the playoffs no one wouldve believed it .
Willie Beamon - February 3, 2012
out of 32 sarting qbs it would be hard to name 6 I would'nt rather have
tomachop - February 3, 2012
Its funny because a QB that had been here 3 weeks and had a busted up finger on this throwing hand had no problem with the same oline.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Todd
you forgot Todd wasnt around…
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
What does Todd have to do with the offensive line?
The players stayed the same, the playcalling was equally uninspired, the running game was still a mess and Orton made it work.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Play Calling...
It does. playcalling and line blocking assments… oh Muir knows how that works being a line coach… and could finally call plays
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
Todd was also here in 2010 when the offensive line graded out as one of the better olines in the league.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Weis was in charge till
the end when he was done and thats why the o didnt do much at the end
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
But I thought Todd was evil and was a control freak and did everything himself and thats why Weis left?
You’re grasping I straws here me thinks. The problem isn’t the oline. They certainly didn’t help at times but Cassel has bigger problems then an oline.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
Cassel
has no idea when to step up, when to get out of the pocket, or when he should throw it away. He makes the line look so much worse than it actually is.
andrew33 - February 3, 2012
Do you watch Cassel play?
Do you watch him go through progressions? Do you watch how the receivers adjust to his off target throws? Do you watch him underthrow deep balls to the point that it is no threat to the defense? Do you watch his release? Do you watch how Jamaal Charles plays out of his mind, the defense steps up, and the team wins despite Cassel?
This is why people are ready to move on.
old_school - February 3, 2012 via mobile
I'm just gonna start calling you Terrel Owens because I know Cassel is you QB
KingChief - February 3, 2012
quit making excuses for him, he can’t even throw for 200 yds in a game and you have rookies coming into the nfl throwing for 300……….Cassel is not a smart qb……he’s a backup, thats all he is.
Billy Wickham - February 12, 2012
I'm fine with Orton going to Wash. that only increases the chances KC lands RG3 or Manning
QBs available this offseason:
Luck
RG3
Manning
Orton
Flynn
Teams looking for a QB
Ind
Cle
Wash
Mia
KC
Ind = Luck
Wash = Orton
Mia or Cle = Flynn
That leaves KC and winner or loser of the Flynn bid (however you view Flynn) to go after RG3 and Manning….of course there’s usually a wildcard that appears and messes up logical thinking…
Chiefs_KC - February 3, 2012
Don't forget the possiblity of Zona and SF
Zona can cut ties with Kolb pretty easy this offseason but they have no oline to protect anyone.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
If Zona cuts ties with Kolb then I see him going to Cle to reunite with the guy that drafted him in Phi?
Kolb would be another WCO guy like Flynn that would appeal to Cle and maybe Mia, Wash?
Chiefs_KC - February 3, 2012
Yep good point
Another forgotten about guy in the mix is Jason Campbell who should end up somewhere starting.
GenericBrand - February 3, 2012
yes, people will say he's no better than Cassel, but if they brought him in atleast it would be competition and he worked well with Saunders before the shoulder injury
Chiefs_KC - February 3, 2012
or Jason Whitlock
tomachop - February 3, 2012
competition for the sake of competition
is better than no competition,.. I think. Now I’ve got a headache.
tomachop - February 3, 2012
I dont like Jason Witlock but something to think about....Also the Bleacher Report
Real good one
the writing was on the walls…
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/kansas-city-chiefs-are-legit-but-coach-todd-haley-is-a-fraud-010311
Real good one
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/974953-charlie-weis-returns-to-kansas-city-area-11-months-later-to-coach-jayhawks
the writing was on the walls…
AngryKitty - February 3, 2012
Isn't it funny
how all these people can watch the same two players play, and see things so differently? All the Cassel apologists can do is throw out mediocre numbers, without mentioning what we’ve all seen with our own eyes. Cassel folding under pressure constantly, no ability to make reads, accuracy issues high and low.
I’m no expert, but in watching Orton, I saw a guy making reads and moving the team down the field like Cassel NEVER has. And with no continuity with his teammates.
Theres no doubt we need a long term solution to the QB problem, but in the meantime Orton is clearly the best alternative AT THIS TIME.
mind the gap - February 3, 2012
Doesn't it blow your mind that Orton was a mid season pick up and instantly moved the ball better than Cassel?
Yes, it could have something to with Todd Haley being gone and his dirty fingers being out of the game planning, but I mean wow. It’s just such a clear difference and ORTON ISN"T EVEN THAT GOOD.
Imagine a talented QB of our very own with an off season.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
And what McClain said about the difference in the huddle.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
didn't hear that
what did he say?
tomachop - February 3, 2012
Oh, it was a story here a little while back,
something like “so that’s what a real leader sounds like.”
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Yeah I'd forgotten about that.
Pretty interesting. I mean he’s obviously never been the real leader of this team, despite how hard they’ve tried to fit him into the role.
bamachief5558 - February 3, 2012
Personally, I'm guessing that McClain was just talking about how Orton sounded on the field.
He plays a lot more calm and in control than Cassel, I bet he talks that way in the huddle, too.
Brsrkr - February 3, 2012
Willie Beamon - February 3, 2012
He's not?
Oh, I guess you missed his 11 games in 2010, when he was healthy? Without the benefit of any kind of running game, without the benefit of good, pass-catching TEs, he averaged 306 yards a game, passed for 20 TDs against 6 INTs, had one of the highest YPA in the league, and earned a 106.0 passer rating.
Now, would you kindly tell me, then, what is “good”?
AZDynamics - February 4, 2012
thx
tomachop - February 3, 2012
If Orton is worried about competing with Cassel then we don't want him as a QB
Seriously, what legitimate QB would be worried that he couldn’t beat out Cassel in a fair competition?
Guess the issue will be is it going to be a fair competition but I can’t see Crennel leaning to Cassel.
Fozzyboyd - February 3, 2012
It's not competiting with Casse that's the problem
it’s significantly out performing him yet still his backup because Pioli has to win with Cassel to survive.
Brad-KC - February 3, 2012
That's dumb.
Pioli will be judged on his overall success, not whether or not he wins with Cassel. Cassel (AND Vrabel) cost him a #2 draft pick. Big deal.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
I agree, it IS dumb
but that’s how it is.
Brad-KC - February 3, 2012
And you know that... how?
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
Well, because
Period.
And
NUFF SAID!
TRSChief - February 3, 2012
Good point.
I hadn’t considered that.
Tarkus - February 3, 2012
That's kind of what I meant by my second part
If it is a fair competition then Orton should beat him out easy. As for outplaying him, I think that’s easy too. It’s not hard to outplay Cassel, average 200 yards a game and you have already played better than more than 2/3rd of Cassel’s games.
Orton is a good QB who has had bad situations. Cassel, may be a good QB, but most people doubt it, that has been in a good situation in NE and for the most part a terrible one here.
Fozzyboyd - February 3, 2012
When did he out perform ANYBODY?
Sinny - February 3, 2012
Where did you see that Orton was afraid of cometing with Cassel?
You are making a wild assumption, then proceeding as if it is fact. Stop flattering yourself.
AZDynamics - February 4, 2012
Sorry - I didn't read all of your comments.
There is so much vitriol here against Orton, even after the job he did for KC. I made the wild assumption you were one of them. I apologize.
AZDynamics - February 4, 2012
In a very exciting world
we would trade up for RG3 and sign Peyton to a 1 year deal.
Brad-KC - February 3, 2012
i do not want orton!
i would rather have the QB that wants to be here. Id rather stick with Cassel and draft our future QB. F*ck orton and i hope he takes his illusion to another sucker.
Sinny - February 3, 2012
Who says he doesn't want to be here?
KCinIL - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Sinny does!
But then, Sinny has been saying a lot of things. LMAO!!
AZDynamics - February 4, 2012
pretty simple
This is the best situation Orton has ever been privy to and to shy away from a competition well i dont want that guy. Orton has not proven anything to me, our DEFENSE beat Green Bay not Orton. He threw for almost 300 yards against a sh*tty defense.
Sinny - February 3, 2012
orton got released because he couldnt win where TEBOW could!
Sinny - February 3, 2012
Right
Cuz our offense didn’t look anything but better with him under the helm. How bout we give this guy longer than 2-3 weeks to get things down with this squad before considering him a bust here. And you give our D credit for beating the Packers and then say “Tebow won” where his D and kicker won more games for the Broncos than he did.
KCinIL - February 3, 2012
that
is why ORTON is an illusion. he didnt win us anything our DEFENSE did. TEBOW threw winning TDs in games when the defense gave him opportunities correct? why was ORTON benched? because he wasnt producing. like i said its pretty simple. No it looked better cause we were playing a crappy defense.
Sinny - February 3, 2012
really
if ORTOn was winning in denver would they have got rid of him for tebow? think about it just a brief moment.
Sinny - February 3, 2012
Um, didn't Orton beat Tebow the last time they faced off?
AZDynamics - February 4, 2012
So if Manni9ng goes to SF...
Is that gonna make Alex Smith available ? : )…Bundle Bowe into a 1 for 1 Trade ?…
KCChef - February 3, 2012
Manning*
KCChef - February 3, 2012
Orton went 2-1 for KC
and was a blocked FG from 3-0. So what’s the deal with your hate for him, you who do? I hope you lose him. You don’t deserve him.
AZDynamics - February 4, 2012
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Arrowhead Pride to post a comment.