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Chiefs Have A Tough Sell With Brian Daboll

The Kansas City Chiefs have a little work to do to convince the fan base that Brian Daboll is a good hire for their offensive coordinator position. Because, judging by our approval poll on Daboll's hire, not many fans are thrilled with the decision.

Coming up on 3,000 votes, only 19 percent of our readers approved of the move to hire Daboll. Almost double that number, 37 percent, said they did not approve of the hire. And 42 percent said they were unsure.

I can completely understand why fans wouldn't be a fan of this move. Going by the information we have -- the stats of the offenses that Daboll has coordinated -- it's hard to make a lot of sense with this hire. He coordinated two offenses in Cleveland that ranked in the bottom four of the league and his Miami Dolphins stint was poor in the first half of the season (yet pretty solid in the second half).

The perception of this hire is that the Chiefs simply reached into the old pile of New England Patriots folks. I'm not sure if that's reality or not but that's absolutely what it looks like. And fans are kinda tired of the Patriots connection considering it has not resulted in a team that wins like the Patriots.

We'll have some commentary from our Dolphins blog coming up later today. They feel this is a good hire for the Chiefs so not all is lost. And I also have a few reasons why this move makes sense.

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Comments

The fact that we haven't made it officially official

Gives me some hope that they want to interview someone from one of the SB staffs. Brian Ferentz possibly?

I would take Ferentz over Daboll. That is how much I dislike Daboll.

and maybe this is just what Pioli wants, backlash from the fans

but Ferentz isn’t any great shakes either … but he is with the Patriots, and he’s Kirk’s son, and we know that Kirk and Scotty are BFF …

It could still be a possibility.

Brian Ferentz will most likely be a good coach for a long time, it would be an interesting hire. He has done a great job with those outstanding TE’s in New England.

The Chiefs are probably just being slow, because that is just how the Chiefs are with every single piece of news that they have to offer.

As for Brian Daboll, I can understand the reaction to him coming to Kansas City being negative. It is not a very sexy hire at all and he has stats that are less than appealing on the surface. It could turn out to be a poor hire. At the same time, if you look at the hire with an objective attitude, you can see why the Chiefs made the hire.

Romeo Crennel is the Head Coach of the Kansas City Chiefs and he is familiar with Brian Daboll. Plus, Daboll put it on Kansas City after the Chiefs had a bye week to prepare for the Miami Dolphins. I wouldn’t discount how impressive this was to Romeo Crennel, a man that can recognize offensive creativity being such a great defensive coordinator.

One thing to consider, is the experience that Brian Daboll has got the last few years. In his twenties, he was winning Super Bowls with the New England Patriots as an assistant coach on both sides of the ball. Since then, he has installed offenses on two different teams and despite the struggles, appears to have improved along the way. At 36, he could be coming into his own as a play caller and he did some cool things with Miami this past year.

Is he an offensive savior? No

However, I don’t think the Chiefs need that. The Chiefs need a coach that can game plan and make adjustments better than Bill Muir and Haley. That could be Brian Daboll…maybe. The Chiefs are need of a fresh perspective and some new eyes to help them become a better team scheme wise on Sunday’s.

This isn’t done yet. The Chiefs still need to fill in the rest of the Coaching staff and find a QB for 2012. All of that stuff will impact how good of a job that Brian Daboll does moving forward. The Chiefs have a lot of weapons on offense and are only going to add more in FA and the draft.

It should be a great full offseason.

Go Chiefs.

well said, i agree
Daboll might deserve a pass for Cleveland

since many coaches have had a similar fate there. He seems to be on the upswing and making improvement along the way.

Even Belichick got fired there

and out of five seasons had only one winning one just like RAC.

Nah.

The Chiefs do not just need someone “that can game plan and make adjustments better than Bill Muir and Haley”. They need someone who can take control of this offense and utilize the talent to compliment Romeo’s defense. Especially with Romeo serving as DC.

Totally disagree with that part of your post. So what this hire says to me is it could be good but it had better be right.

You know what, if he stops running Dexter up the middle for 80% of his carries while preferring to send the slower running backs on pitch routes then I think we'll get along with him.
Interesting change of strategy there.
Whoa. Now you're just way too outside the box, man!
Just Maybe

Maybe their putting him their just to have a name their,because Peyton Manning will be calling all the plays hahaha…………………………………….Go Chiefs

Well that would depend on Peyton's opinion of Daboll

Sounds like those in Cleveland didn’t like him and those in Miami did. So we really don’t know what the consensus opinion on Daboll is.

to put the Browns into perspective

Bill Belichick has an overall losing record with the Browns. Just a shitty team.

This isn't new information

I still hate this argument. It is about the coaches and players, not the name of the team.

they're the browns though

might as well be called the “poops”. makes a difference.

And, what should the Chiefs be called?

Fact: The Browns have 5 more championships than the Chiefs.

They only have 4 total.

How could they have 5 more?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browns

4 NFL and 4 AAFC championships.

I thought the Chiefs had 3 total. My bad.

different franchise thought ... think: Ravens

the CURRENT Browns are an entirely different team and franchise … the one Daboll was with is not “the old Browns” franchise

Question

How does this approval compare to the Bill Muir promotion last year?

Just curious.

Piolis blowing smoke up our ass

What do you call Quarterback Competion,does this mean Jason campbell,Orton,or maybe Mcnabb,Cullpepper,Vince Young, I think he is just saying this to look good,because Cassel is his man.

He's not serious about actually challenging his boy.

Pioli isn’t going to bring in someone who could actually unseat Cassel. It’s just not going to happen.

right

Obviously he doesn’t care about winning. His goal in coming to KC was to make Matt Cassel a starter.

His actions seem to indicate he thinks we can win with Cassel
What actions?

Who did you want him to bring in last year after Cassel had a great season? After this offseason you can make that judgement but not before

You can make that decision right now. He was not great or even good against teams that had winning records.
Or, more importantly, good pass defenses.
God dang, man.

I’m finding your comments extremely difficult to parse.

And I'm finding your username hilarious.

Just saying it out loud is good times.

And I'm glad I could spread laughter and joy

On this fine Sunday morn.

I needed it.

Working again (on freakin super bowl sunday!) and don’t have a weekend off for the entire month of February.

You win this round, military.

But who?

Who would be good competition? Everyone you mentioned are about the same give or take or even worse. So who is available?

Dolphins fans have pretty low standards, they probably think, well hey, 22nd isn’t 23rd! and he came from the Patriots, and Scott Pioli always said that if you ever had an affiliation with the Patriots, that you MUST be good!

Also, the whole, he’s young so he’s just green but he’ll get better as he gets older, as opposed to Al saunders is 65 so he’s washed up and over the hill is a load of crap. I don’t care how old my coach is. If he’s good, I want him, and if he’s young and sucks, then he still sucks.

They had a top 10 offense over the 2nd half of the season

you know, like after the team had a chance to get comfortable in the new system. Madden ain’t reality.

Pioli as usual is sitting on his hands...

….pretending to do his due diligence. I’m sure free agency will just light the place up too. A few over the hill bums, or a couple guys the east coast teams have found wanting.

Pretty Much My Thoughts

There are likely going to be good young free agents out there who can help our football team (Carl Nicks or Chilo Rachal would be my choice for a top target). I’m anticipating that Pioli signs nobody that impressive.

Once bitten, twice shy

I think Adilius Thomas burns in Pioli’s mind, and he’s afraid of making another expensive mistake. I have no doubt he wouldn’t have signed Breaston last season if it weren’t for Haley’s influence, and I doubt he’ll go after any other significant free agents without having a close confidant to vouch for the player. That said, with the Daboll connection to Miami, maybe they’ll bring in Soliai?

Personally, I think Pioli trusts Romeo much much more than he ever did Haley, and if Romeo says that he needs this player or that player, he’ll be much more likely to listen.

I'm Sure He Trusts Romeo More

But that’s the problem…should he? The guy was not a great head coach in Cleveland. Even if you ignore all of the other crap about that place, it still comes down to him having a record worse than Haley’s.

And Maybe Crennel Is Better Here Than Cleveland

I don’t know. I’m fine with Crennel for now. What I’m not fine with is Pioli’s apparent inability to work outside of his comfort zone on coaching hires and player acquisitions.

I agree with this

I’ve staved off getting on board the “Pioli sucks” bandwagon, because I do like the overall talent level on the team now as opposed to when he arrived.

But I’ll need to see at least one bold move this offseason to continue to do so…

Mahon isn't a product of NE
I'll Put It This Way

The second half of last season gives some reason to believe he might be okay. The rest of his career as an offensive coordinator (a much bigger sample size) does not. There are also questions about whether Daboll can get the same results in KC with possibly inferior talent on the offensive line and at QB (as well as with Jamaal Charles in his recovery year from ACL surgery).

Basically, for me there are too many ifs for this to be considered a good hire at the outset. And Pioli has made enough mistakes in dealing with coaches so far for me to automatically give him the benefit of the doubt. The only thing that will convince me it’s a good hire is clear improvement on offense and wins on the field.

Hes only been one for three years

Much bigger sampling size my ass.

Six Times Bigger Than Your Same Size

So yeah…that’s much bigger.

Try Four

2nd 1/2 of 2011 = 8 games is 25% of 1st 1/2 of 2011+ 2009 + 2010 w/ Browns = 24 games

Did I misread, cause I thought he was with the Brown for 2 whole seasons.

At 16 games a piece, that is 32 games. Then add in the 8 for the first half of this year, and you get to 40. So the second half of this year is 1/6 of his entire OC career, and the his non-2nd half of 2011 coaching career is 5 times as big as those 8 games.

Sorry, math major in me had to fix it.

Too early to tell about Daboll.

I don’t see that he had a whole lot to work with in either Cleveland or Miami. It does seem that he left those places better than he found them. Sometimes all you can do is make shit less shitty. (It will still smell mabe not quite as bad.) How did Belichick do in Cleveland? Not so good.

Exactly

Broke down Lewis w/ Massaqoi as leading WR in 2009 and injury riddled RB by committee w/ NE TE cast off Watson as leading receiver. What he had in Miami Bush (best stats ever) and Marshall 1,200 yard Pro Bowler and used Fasano effectively.

trying to decide if Daboll is "Another Haley" or "The Anti-Haley" ... but there are similarities

both are young
both have been said to have great offensive minds
both have OC time with one year of success (Daboll also had 2 yrs of Cleveland)

how do they differ?

Haley went from being a hardass (2009) to a relative softy (2010) to omg! (2011)
Daboll went from being omg! (Cleveland & McCoy’s Headset) to being a great guy (Miami)

in some ways one really has to ask of both Haley and Daboll: who is this guy?

/cue Roobie the Robot – Questions! Questions!

Daboll has had success? I guess I missed that.

Ugh, now finishing 22nd is considered good and worthy in KC.

Groan

last half of 2011 the Dolphins looked pretty good ... he got some good play and success from Bush and Moore (as noted above by others)

and look what they did to our awesome Chiefs defense (just sayin’) … so yeah, some success

I think the biggest difference will be

Haley: OC > HC
Daboll: OC > OC

Haley just burnt out on trying to do to much and couldn’t handle it all with the attitude he thought he needed to have. Daboll is going to be the OC (not like it’s an easy job) but will obviously not have as much on his shoulders.

Haley Was A Better OC Than Head Coach

I thought the team did a lot better when he wasn’t allowed to touch the offense at all, actually.

That Headline Was Meant As A Question
he was a better OC as just an OC

he was a better HC than HC/OC. He couldn’t handle them both. So I agreed I didn’t like when he touched our offense as our HC.
to clarify

I No Longer Believe That

The only time he ever showed any aptitude as an OC was when he ran an offense with two Hall of Famers and another Pro Bowl WR in it. And he was working for a head coach who specialized on offense. Beyond that, he’s shown nothing to indicate he has any clue about how offenses work…the offenses in KC got worse whenever he was allowed to intervene and got better when he wasn’t.

one last (yeah right!) point on Haley ...

it’s been suggested that he was “hired to be fired” … ie, brought in only as a “placeholder” for Crennel (that Pioli wanted Crennel to begin with, but he was ailing for that first year … all of which did lead to both Crennel and Weis in 2010)

a possibilty

If That Was Pioli's Plan

Then Pioli would be a fucking moron.

Who in their right mind hires a placeholder so he can get a coach with a sub-.400 record? And sticks with him for three years? Despite my criticisms, I don’t think Pioli is close to that stupid.

moron? no ... conniving and scheming plotter?

would you put it past him?

just tossed in (way up top) the offhand thought that maybe he’s gauging public response just to have an excuse (like he needs one, he’s the boss after all) to hire Brian Ferentz

from the Pats, son of his very very very BFF Kirk

I Think It Sounds Like A Conspiracy Theory

One without evidence. Based on what came out at the time, Pioli very much liked Haley and thought he was a good young hire with potential. He knew and worked with Haley and they were reportedly friends. The relationship appears to have soured because Haley, bluntly, turned out to be a colossal asshole who appeared to have no idea how to run a football team and who didn’t know or accept his limitations.

If he was a placeholder, I suspect he would have been out the door with Pendergast after 2009. I wouldn’t have been unhappy…he gave plenty of reason. Pioli stuck with him for almost three years and always backed him publicly. He let the guy push Charlie Weis out the door and be the de facto OC this season. The evidence points to it being a situation where Pioli wanted it to work out…it just didn’t.

That's kind of what Ups does...
I Think It Sounds Like A Conspiracy Theory
just tossing out an idea ...

but I guess you’re right: the Magic Bullet Theory is real and Oswald acted alone

Magic Bullet

The reason the theorists don’t think the bullet made sense is that they weren’t looking at where Connolly was sitting in the car. And that there’s a tree between the depository and the street that wasn’t blocking the view back in 1963. :)

that bullet didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now

it was scientifically tested and put to rest as plausible years ago, as was the possibility of Oswald and the Manlicher-Carcan being remotely capable of being the sole souce of that day’s events

It's Okay

Ups is a smart guy…and conspiracy theories are just what sports fans do. I suppose my thoughts on Haley and Weis are more conspiracy theory than anything. I just don’t agree with this particular theory and don’t think the evidence supports it.

Haley did seem to get burnt out ... a lot of frustration coming to the surface, and most likely a LOT more behind the scenes going on than we'll ever know

I also think Haley was trying to “change his style” a bot too much … he was still finding his way as OC, trying to incorporate too many things from too many people instead of just being “himself”

props to him for mellowing after that first year, the “movie days” were cool … he seemed to have matured, grown, get comfortable

as for 2011 … a lot of theories, a lot of questions … no sure answers

and so it goes

Really Good Point
"The rest of his career as an offensive coordinator (a much bigger sample size) does not."

It’s a much bigger sample size but what are the parameters? He was on the Browns dude…. Even Bill Belicheck left the Browns with a losing record.

Ah yes, so no one EVER, EVER will succeed in Cleveland

Because Belichick couldn’t.

It's a point of reference

It’s to illustrate that all teams aren’t equal.

How many of Belichick's players/coaches from his Cleveland teams

Were there under Daboll?

Tell me the answer and then tell me why your argument is relevant.

I'm not going to look it up...you can if you want to prove YOUR point

The Browns have lacked talent for as long as I can remember…. doesn’t matter what generation of players were there during BB’s time or Dabol’s time.

Nick's Right

We’re evaluating Daboll on his own merits. Nick doesn’t have to contrast them to a bunch of guys who never worked with Daboll.

I Agree With Nick's Point

I don’t consider Cleveland to be some kind of hole where there’s no way to win. I think that a large part of the problem with Cleveland is that they don’t hire very good coaches. Mangini wasn’t a good coach. Neither was Chris Palmer. Or Butch Davis (at least for the NFL). I think their owner sucks, but I also think their quality is coaching is bad because good coaches don’t want to work there, not because those were good coaches who just didn’t get a chance.

Tell that to every coach to walk Browns stadium since Marty

That it isnt a hole, Crennel was the first one to get them to a winning record since Marty was there years before

ok, then they DID have players with the ability to win
Name One Cleveland Coach Besides Marty And Belichick Who Went On To Great Or Even Good Things Elsewhere

Besides Marty and Belichick, I can’t think of one. I can’t even name a Cleveland head coach besides those two who even got another head coaching job.

And Belichick admitted that he didn’t do a great job there. He had to change his approach to be successful in New England. But even then he still got an 11-5 season under his belt in Cleveland.

Cleveland's Problems Basically Boil Down To Two Things

They have a terrible owner in Randy Lerner who doesn’t seem to invest much in infrastructure there and he hires a lot of shitty GMs who have no idea how to build a good football team or how to hire good coaches. By way of example, they had a problem with staph infections a few years ago that hit several players…ended their center LeCharles Bentley’s career, actually. Rather than fix the problem, they focused the majority of their efforts covering the problem up, then telling everyone they didn’t have a staph infection issue with their facilities, even though the evidence clearly pointed to it being a problem. The obviously smart move there would have been to simply fix the problem. But instead they tried to convince people they didn’t have a problem.

That’s an institutional flaw. And it’s a reason that good coaches don’t want to go there. When coaches don’t do well in their first stint, but show some talent, they’ll generally pop up somewhere else in another job (look at Norv Turner and Wade Phillips). Cleveland coaches rarely do…because nobody seems to hold their abilities in particularly high regard.

And

It’s important to note that Belichick and Marty both worked for a different owner and in fact a different team altogether than the current Browns. They worked for the team that eventually became the Ravens…Art Model, owned that team for a long time and had some success over his tenure. Since the team has been owned by Randy Lerner (who I believe has owned it since it was an expansion club) it’s been almost uniformly horribly run.

Good point

The Browns Belichick and Marty coached under are now in Baltimore. And last I checked, they are a pretty consistent winner.

I think we just made that debate our bitch.

(To Debate)

That’s right…take it all.

:)

Classic Example Of Mismanagement

To me it was their handling of Tim Couch. He got a lot of flack for not being good, but if you look at his numbers he was actually a decent QB. The problem for him was that their line sucked and after they drafted him and invested all this cash, they didn’t draft an offensive lineman with anything other than a late round pick for five years. By the time they drafted Jeff Faine, Couch was a physical wreck. I don’t think he ever had a good RB or WR corps. They basically treated their best asset like a sports car they entered into a demolition derby.

That’s just how their team does things…no real plan.

Crennel wasn't the first one with a winning season since Marty.

Belichick and Butch Davis both had a winning season there too.

And They Both Got Jobs Elsewhere And Produced

Most Cleveland head coaches won’t, because they usually aren’t very good coaches.

Chris Palmer has stuck around the league.

Now the OC in Tennessee. Crennel and Davis found jobs. So the only person who fits this theory is Mangini, who has been out of football for all of one season.

Not As A Head Coach

Most of the failures there are really victims of the Peter Principle…they’re good coordinators but not good head coaches (at least for the NFL). So when I say they’re “not good” I’m really just talking about as head coaches.

Appears to be true.

Hopefully that isn’t the case with Crennel, though I have my fears. Cleveland took a step in the right direction with Holmgren as GM. In his two drafts, he’s got a nice secondary and d-line started. Has two first rounders to work with this year, things could be pointing up. They need to find a QB like every other middling NFL team.

Holmgren Is Interesting

I’m not sure Pat Shurmur is a good coach, but I think he’s done some good things there. Overall the drafts are better I think and he’s made smart decisions on players (even if he hasn’t done anything particularly earth-shattering). Holmgren is a great coach and seems to be a capable GM…he just can’t do both at the same time and be good. :)

Wouldn't be shocked to see him end up back on the sideline.

A lot of people seem to think the Browns will move up to get RGIII, that will make or break his time in Cleveland if it happens.

Agreed

It’s going to be a very interesting draft, I think.

Holmgren isn’t GM in Cleveland though. Their last two drafts (for good or for bad) are the work of Tom Heckert.

Good Point, You're Right

My bad. Heckert is a very capable GM. Did a good job in Philadelphia I thought.

Stop bringing facts in here!

I want to praise Holmgren!

And

Jury is still out on Crennel. The Green Bay win was great, but he’s still the guy who got outcoached by Hue Jackson to get us eliminated from the playoffs.

I disagree with both of you

while in cleveland the only probowl player Daboll had on offense was Joe Thomas. And his QBs were Brady Quinn/Derek Anderson in 2009 and Colt McCoy, Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace haha. So yeah.. it’s hard to put up killer numbers with garbage players

by both of you I mean UCrawford and Nick
I remember us losing to Cleveland in 2009 and winning by 2 pts in 2010

And getting our asses handed to us against Miami in 2011. So maybe our team isn’t any better than those guys?

No sure how this ties into the offensive coordinating capabilities

that Daboll had during his stint in Cleveland?

Because Daboll Was In Cleveland

He’s saying that it may be that Daboll may only be an upgrade for us, not an upgrade because he’s actually good.

Or not much of an upgrade at all

Considering one of the main arguments is that Daboll was asked to coach a crappy team and would do better with a good team in KC. Unless Pioli makes some major changes this offseason, I don’t think our team is that much better than those guys.

Not Sure I Agree There

I think we’re much better in most areas on offense. The only place I think they’re better is center and left tackle, with Alex Mack and Joe Thomas respectively. Everywhere else is a draw or they’re clearly worse. I think our receiving corps is far better than theirs.

The important thing is...what's he do in big games at crunch time....

ah…never mind, he coached where?

Rea-oli

A completely ridiculous move. Just another New England hire. At least that’s the way fans (including myself) see it.

Pioli better hope this guy can create a top 10 offense. If not there should be a revolt inside and outside arrowhead this time next year. By hiring another New England guy, he has signed his death warrant in Kansas City if the results aren’t noticeably better.

Two things I wonder about … Does Brian Daboll have any idea the ferocity of Chiefs fans and the furnace his “friend” just put him in. And what happened to the right 53 and staff. Maybe the next move is changing Chiefs red and gold to blue and silver.

The ferocity of Chiefs fans?

Man, Daboll coached in Cleveland where a rabid fan base had their beloved franchise yanked right out from under them in the most unceremonious of ways.

I think he can handle KC’s passionate fanbase.

GOOD HIRE!

Daboll ran a 20 something ranked offense for the Browns and Dolphins. But look at the personnel he had to work with on those teams (Brady Quinn, Colt McCoy, Henne/Moore). Absolutely NO offensive weapons until this year with Reggie Bush and he found a way to FINALLY utilize Bush’s potential. Just imagine what he can do with JC and DMC in the backfield.

Just like any new hire, he’s gonna be criticized. But give the guy a break. He’s a young bright mind. Someone the Chiefs were looking for

I also don’t understand why everyone is all on the Saunders bandwagon??? Look at his last 4 seasons as an OC. Ranked toward the bottom of the league. The only good years he had was with, yup, KC in which he had possibly the best offensive line combination EVER to work with. Oh and a man named Priest.

Daboll did a good job with the Dolphins this year given what he had, even with 2 HC’s. He also had MATT MOORE at QB…..MATT MOORE. He had the 12th best passer rating last year. Not. Bad. Most of their failure was due to their defense.

Also, for what it’s worth, he rejuvenated Reggie Bush’s career as well.

Daboll has been an OC 3 years, 2 of which were with the lowly Browns and one of those with Brady Quinn at QB…..Brady Quinn. No one gave RAC heat when he was hired based on his past HC numbers. Why all the hate on Daboll who had the same crappy Browns franchise with NO star players to work with???

I disagree with the personnel argument

Just because the talent level in the league is so high. Everyone can play and the parity in the NFL is not something that should be discounted. Judging by the way we have played those so-called “shitheaps of talent” the past couple years, maybe our team isn’t that much better than them.

To contrast, look at what Jim Harbaugh did in San Fran with pretty much the same group of players that were the laughing stock of the league under Mike Singletary. He took them to 13-3 and one or two plays away from playing in the Super Bowl.

At some point, we have to decide how we define success.

Even though Singletary is a bad HC

They did blow up their defense and rebuild it with a bunch of studs ready for Harbaugh to walk in.

That is my point

Just because a team has a bad record, doesn’t mean they don’t have good players. So you shouldn’t just assume since Daboll wasn’t successful in other places, it was strictly due to lack of talent. All teams in the NFL have talent and coaching is important.

Some guys have what it takes, others don’t. So far, Daboll looks like he doesn’t.

except...

the 49ers didn’t have good players under Singletary…they had amazing players under harbaugh

They were the same players
most of them were 1st or 2nd year players

and the 9ers rookies this year have done amazingly.

He takes the 30th ranked offense and makes it 22nd

We couldve gone to the playoffs with an offense like that.

So you totally disregard

4 30+ point games in Miami’s last 9 and 2 25+ point games? Best stat year for Reggie Bush etc etc?

ok so,

what makes you think Daboll can’t come right in and do the same thing with the same players?? Don’t be hypocritical of this signing. His offensive schemes have proven to put up points. Those schemes need good defenses, which the Chiefs have.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME THE RIGHT ANSWER AND NOT A BUNCH OF CRAP

ok im lost here arrowhead pride has said brian is are new offinsive coordinator, why the entire kc chiefs website has failed to mention once that he has been hired, plus espn said we where in talks with him and he has not been hired. But then you have bill williamson that has already said he has been hired…. why on earth did we take an approval pole for if the guy hasnt even been hired. this is why all us chiefs fans get into a panic, shit not one sports site can even give the right answer… sorry but im sticking with the kc Chiefs website..

You are right, it is not official

But reputable sources have said it is all but a done deal.

Chiefs won’t announce until the ink is dry, or sometime after.

unofficially its official

officials unofficially have officially confirmedthe hire, however some officials deny officially about the unofficial hiring. Hope that helps

might be as clear as it ever gets
When Shefter says it, it's pretty much bank

Only name I trust with “breaking news”

Heck, Matt Cassel talked to the KCStar about how things would like with Daboll in coordinator. Actually, on the team’s website it claims they are negotiations with him. They wouldn’t go out and do that if he wasn’t for sure hired.

Players like him

Brian Daboll Hiring: Le’Ron McClain Approves Of Chiefs New Offensive Coordinator

It has to do with the Super Bowl

He has been “unofficially-officially hired” . The CHiefs new PR guy, Ted Crews has much to do with this as well. As in the past you would never see anything on the Chiefs website unless it was a DONE deal. This new guy is changing it up, keeping fans in the mix of whats going on.

Mostly this a Super Bowl thing. The NFL doesn’t want any other news other than…..well, the Super Bowl.

Yeah, Brian Daboll would steal the show

He is the Tim Tebow of offensive coordinators.

that's not the point...

news is news. Plus most of the Chiefs brass is in Indy anyway. Calm down

yes, expect an official announcement either Monday or Tuesday after the Super Bowl smoke has cleared.

Brian Daboll is onr of the brightest up and coming offensive coaches in all of football.

Just because the fans in KC don’t know his name does not make this a bad hire. I like it, and think he turns out to be a very good hire.

Most fans know his name

And not in a good way. Ignorance is not to blame for the poor approval, it is his lack of success and production as an OC.

Then you're not looking at the numbers

understanding the personnel he had around him
understand his age/inexperience/learning he’s done
etc etc

See above

So I have heard the following excuses for Daboll’s failures:

1) Bad players
2) Age/experience
3) Browns

Damn, looks like we can’t hold this guy accountable for anything.

You can

You just wont accept the opposing arguments

Your Opposing Argument Is

That he MIGHT be good.

Whichever side is right will eventually be shown in the results on the field.

So arguing about it at all at this point is a fruitless endeavor

Since nobody really knows anything at all about how he’ll work as our OC with our personnel in our situation.

So maybe everyone pauses the arguing until this time next year so we have relevant data to work with?

It Is

My point is that there’s plenty of reason to be skeptical on the hire because of his past results and that it doesn’t thrill me because it’s completely in line with everything else Pioli has done, which hasn’t worked out all that well.

But then it is our offseason… :)

There are reasons to be skeptical, and reasons to be optimistic.

Anyone claiming absolutes in either direction are pretty much full of it, since really all we can do is observe and adjust accordingly. =)

More than might

In two years he took the significantly lower level of talent Brownies from 32 to 29th and in his 1st year w/ no offseason he took the fins from 30th to 20th in scoring and reduced the turnover difference ratio 50%. He also coached Marshall to the Pro Bowl and Bush had his best year ever. Yes the teams sucked but you really need to see he experienced some success in a very shot time frame, was trending up in both places with inferior overall talent. We had an excellent group of unified talent looking for a plan.

Or these valid reasons

1st NFL job as OC with a horrible team and horrible players
Shown improvement with slightly less horrible players
Known as a great mind
Put him with better players and he’ll improve his coaching as well.
Could be a great hire.

Tired of hearing you and UCrawford cry like a bunch of 2 year olds not understanding the situation.

Exactly

he’s been an OC for THREE years……THREE. Every report says he has a great offensive mind and game plan. He just needs the offensive weapons to do so, ala Reggie Bush and Brandon Marshal. The Chiefs have far more weapons

I would disagree that we have "far more weapons"

As explained above — parity.

please

name other “weapons”, other than Bush and Marshal on that team

dude...we have far better talent

Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston. better WR core
Charles: Better RB
Cassel (even tthough i hate him) better than M. Moore

I mean.. do you even think before you type?

hahahaha

what are you talking about??? That is my whole argument. You’re the one saying that we don’t have more weapons than the Dolphins as stated before….

“I would disagree that we have “far more weapons”
As explained above — parity."

No, idiot Nick Britt said that

I’m on your side… the rational side.

woops, sorry

misread the name!!

there IS a rational side?

on AP? wow, who knew! :-)

Keep it away from me.

It may be contagious.

learn something new everyday!

well known fact, but we're actually slightly more closely related to almonds

although not by much

I can see that you know nothing of the Browns rosters in 2009 and 2010.

who's saying

that Daboll has been a failure??

Look what he did with Matt Moore and Reggie Bush. That’s an accomplishment

Lack of production as an OC????

his offenses have put up big point totals. Like someone said before, the Chiefs had TWO 25+ point games last year. The Dolphins had 4, which all of them coming after Spags was fired and one 31-3 demolishing of the Chiefs

It is just going to take some proof for Kansas City fans.
HIs name isn't McDaniels so I guess I should be happy.
Browns fan here...

Good hire for the Chiefs. Daboll is a legit coaching talent.

incoming

UCrawford and Nick Britt

Thanks for positive words golanbatrac

Sorry If You Don't Like Our Opinions

But don’t lose site of the fact that your opinion is by far the minority one based on the polls. So don’t try to pretend that we’re trolls for bringing a dose of reality to you. We may be right or wrong on Daboll, but the same applies to you.

in regard to the poll

I’ve already suggested that the majority of that is due to a no name OC..with a bad track record and snappy judgments being made. Like I said, I saw the headline, saw the poll, and voted no as well. Then, I used this thing called a brain, did some research, and found out it might be a really great hire.

Or They Looked At The Performance Of The Teams He Coordinated For

If your argument is that 80% of fans were indifferent or hostile to the hire because they just don’t follow football like you do, hate to break it to you but your arguments aren’t THAT insightful. :)

Never said I know a lot about football

But i’m rational, can understand situations, and make reasonable judgments.
For example.
Understand his age, his level of experience with awful talent. His first few years.
Understand that his next gig with Matt Moore at QB showed improvement.
Realize that with inferior talent, over the last 9 games the Dolphins had 4 30+ point games and 2 25+point games.

Those are the things you need to look at.

So Your Point Is That 80% Of Chiefs Fans Are Either Ignorant Or Irrational?

And that even though you admit you don’t “know” football, that you’re inherently better at doing analysis than they are on the subject?

I don't know a lot as far as

the X’s and O’s but you don’t need to be for this kind of discussion.
And…well yeah, 80% of Chiefs fans (including my initial vote) are probably ignorant, irrational, or uneducated in regards to the poll. If there was an article explaining who he is, what the situation is like, what other people in the league have to say about him etc etc…THEN have the vote, it would be much different.

Interesting

So what differentiates you from them? What is it that makes you better at analysis? Specifically, I mean. What are your qualifications?

dude,

whos saying he’s better or the best analyst at anything??? we’re all putting our own perspective in.

All he is saying that he voted “no” before really knowing anything about the guy. After reading up on him, his opinion changed. He’s saying that, that could be the case for some of you. Do a little research and not look so much at the numbers

Not What I'm Getting At

He’s been whining about other people having opinions on this for two days now and attacking their intelligence. I’m just curious what makes him think he’s inherently better.

I've been whining?

Linking stats, facts, and opinions is hardly whining. Crying about a coach before he’s even coached for the Chiefs is what I’d classify under whining.

Yup...Whining

And calling other people dumb and irrational.

I fully admit that my opinion on Daboll could be wrong. I haven’t called you stupid or irrational just because you disagree with me.

"well yeah, 80% of Chiefs fans (including my initial vote) are probably ignorant, irrational, or uneducated in regards to the poll"

note I said in regards to the Poll…not that they are probably ignorant, irrational, or uneducated people.

There’s a difference between saying “UCrawford, you’re a bitch and UCrawford, you’re acting like a bitch”
Don’t think you are one, just using it as an example :)

That Would Be Another Of Your Semantic Arguments

The appropriate response would be not to attack the other person in either way and address just their arguments.

Its fun to watch you self destruct

Instead of arguing the point at hand (which I’ve proven your wrong), you’re trying to turn this into Brad-KC vs other Chiefs fans. Sad sad person.

Again, I made a snap decision just like 80% of the voters and clicked “no” because it was right there. I didn’t know who he was…. and wanted a high profile name.
Hue Jackson
Al Saunders
etc.
What I did differently was do some research. It changed my opinion. Now, I didn’t say all 80% of them were wrong, I just think it might not be so lopsided if more people researched the guy…or learned about the guy before conveniently clicking No

Self-Destruct?

All I’ve done is ask you why you think 80% of people are dumber than you?

You sound defensive.

" why you think 80% of people are dumber than you?"

because this isn’t a rational question based on what I’ve posted. It’s a weak attempt to troll / get off target. I’ve never said people are “dumber” than me…considering I even put it out there that I couldn’t break down film or know all of the X’s and O’s about football.. I’d hardly say I’m tooting my own horn or anything.
It’s just fun to watch people get off track and fall victim to personal attacks when they can’t argue any more.

Personal Attacks?

All I did was ask you about your qualifications on critical thinking and why you assume that 80% of Chiefs fans are less informed than you are.

Qualifications?

None, but I have this.
Do you think there’s a difference between a 1st year coach and 4th?
Yes (rational) No (irrational)
Do you think there’s a difference between a team with talent and a team without?
Yes (rational) No (irrational)
Do you think showing improvement from year to year is positive?
Yes (rational) No (irrational)

If you don’t know the guy..or recognize his name, you’re not going to looking into the above questions and find the answers…which rationally leads this to a potential great hire.

Daboll has been coaching in the NFL since 2000

Including 3 years as an OC. Not exactly inexperienced.

We know who Daboll is, we know his qualifications. We have the same resources you do. Maybe our standards are just higher?

As For The Second Half Of The Season

Perhaps the reason the team showed improvement was simply that they weren’t continuing to play Henne.

I'll humor that suggestion even though it's ridiculous because Henne only played three games

Wouldn’t that even be more in Dabolls favor because that means a bad QB was holding his offense back? That by that logic, if they started the year with Moore that that success would’ve been 16 games instead of the last 9?

Four Games

It was also Moore’s first year with the team and he didn’t have an offseason to work on Daboll’s offense so by the second half of the season, Moore would have had four games to work it, as well as the accompanying practices.

So the question is, can Daboll succeed with a QB other than Matt Moore?

He made all of 3 passes in the fourth game but thats not here nor there

Again your argument makes no sense to your point of view because you’re suggesting that Daboll was held back by a bad QB and a new QB or that you wonder if he can duplicate his success.

I’m going to ignore the question of “can Daboll succeed with a QB other then Matt Moore” because that just might be the most ignorant thing I’ve read all week on this site.

Only If You Assume Cassel Is Clearly Better Than Matt Moore

That was my point. So far that doesn’t seem clear at all. It’s no trick to do well with Peyton Manning or Kurt Warner. We don’t have those guys here…we’ve got a guy who may or may not be as good as Matt Moore.

Dude

How good do you truly believe Matt Moore is?

The truth is

that both of those crappy teams got better and scored some serious points. 42% were undecided because they don’t know enough about him and are wise enough to not play chicken before they look at his whole body of work and the environment it was performed in and the tools he had to work with. Go smart Chief’s fans!!

Thanks

So is Bill Muir.

Very Good Offensive Line Coach

I wish he’d stuck around, but I understand why he didn’t.

Because he's old and its time for him to retire?

Or do you have a different take that completely ignores all the reasons he gave for teaving?

I'll Take Him At His Word It's Age

But even if was because of the demotion, I’d understand that too. Most coaches won’t hang around after a demotion, even if it wasn’t meant to be personal.

It wasn't because of a demotion though.

Because he came out and said that he wanted to come back and coach the offensive line even before any demotion discussion came into play.

And

I don’t blame Pioli for not keeping him as OC. He was a good line coach, but he wasn’t much of a coordinator, IMO.

I'm not so sure he didn't want to stay around
Daboll has only been an OC for 3 years

2009—260 yds/gm 15 pts/gm
2010—290 yds/gm 17 pts/gm
2011—317 yds/gm 20 pts/gm
That looks to me like a steady improvement every year. Not sure why there is all the hate for the guy

not only that

but the Dolphins were in pretty much every game that they lost last year. They hung with the Cowboys and the 2 Super Bowl teams. Offensively Daboll will keep you in the game, they just lacked the defense…..which the Chiefs currently have.

Again...parity

I don’t think any one team is clearly better than any other team, regardless of when they went to the Super Bowl.

Chiefs:

2011—311 yds/gm 13.2 pts/gm

How is that even possible?

the worst

Redzone offense in the NFL might have something to do with that haha

Well yeah, there's that.
yup

dead last in the league in that … one reason I keep praying for DeCastro (among others) and the best help we can get on OLine

Chiefs sucked in short yardage in 2010 too.

But weren’t near as bad putting the ball into the end zone.

we need to get better at both ... like DUH
DBowe + YAC got us into the end zone a LOT last year.
13 pts/game is a lot?

wow … now I need to reassess everything

I believe he was referring to 2010.
ah
Last NFL year.

The game today is concluding the 2011 NFL season.

Pretty standard terminology.

Kind of like going to be at 3am and saying that you’re going to do x/y/z tomorrow – even though it’s technically later today.

Yes, 13 pts/ game is alot for a

kicker who accounted 43% of the points scored thru FG and extra points:
92 points out of 212…now that’s really sad!
Here’s what I figured out:
Offense: 51% (108 pts)
Defense: 6% (12 Pts)
Extra Point: 9% (20 Pts)
FG: 34% (72 Pts)

A healthy Moeaki and JC had a lot to do with that IMO
Second last

San Fran was last and somehow made it to the NFC championship game.

I was close :-)
That's because they have a franchise QB.
Ha

ANd a kicker who set a record for most FGs ever.

The defense may have something to do with that

with their 20 Ints (tied for 6th in NFL) and 6 recovered fumbles. (shrugs).

because people are pissed that he's from the "Patriot Tree"

but what they don’t realize is no coach in the NFL today gets their job without knowing someone before hand, there’s only like what 3 trees that most of the coaches in the NFL are from, Walsh, Parcells, and now Belichick

Exactly the reason for the Rooney Rule.

Networking.

because for some chiefs fans

if the guy didn’t start his NFL career with a top 5 offense.. it’s a failure.

All I care about is...

whether if he can keep the defense off the field longer than the offense? This was a big problem with our frequently 3 and out plays.

I looked up Miami’s stats from 2011:
They converted third down 69 out of 207 times…that’s 33% compared to KC’s 81 times out of 225 times (36%).
They also made 1st down 287 times compared to KC’s 277.
Their time of possession was average of 30:37 compared to KC’s 29.32 a game.

Our concern with this hire is warranted because this is not a huge improvement. Remember, OC will have his hand full with running the entire offense.

A huge improvement

would come from a team with a huge improvement of talent. aka QB

About half of NFL could say the same thing...

bottom line is you MAKE the offense work despise its “star” shortage. You do not make the players fit into your offense philosophy, you do not make the offense revolve around one or two “star” player…you have to make offense work BASED on what you have.

That’s what I am hoping Daboll will do…that is if he is our “officially” new OC.

I think that 3rd down conversion rates

come down to the personnel that you have on the field. It’s easy to say on 3rd and 2 to put you 250lb RB in and pound the ball up the middle, but when you have JC, DMC, Bowe and Breaston, the options are wide open

Really though, how many Marshall dropped TDs was that team away from the playoffs?

Dude dropped 1 or 2 HUGE plays every week. Daboll can’t catch the ball for him (insert Bowe joke here)

Now come on!

That’s not fair to Marshall! I mean, he probably wasn’t the same ever since he slipped on McDonald’s burger wrapper! ;p

thought it was a Grbac joke
I'm not really for or against the guy, I'm more in wait and see mode.

One argument that I do think is valid is that Daboll is a young, inexperienced but improving offensive coordinator. He didn’t have much to work with in Cleveland and he did have less talent in Miami then we do here although it isn’t “far less” it’s still less.

If you look at how Miami improved last year over the last nine games though his resume looks a whole lot better. After Miami got into the win column they averaged 24.5 points per game, which over the course of the season would be top 10 offensive numbers. Now that’s only nine games but those nine games are almost 20% of his career at OC and they are the most recent and it’s a good thing for him to build off of.

Having said that, what makes me concerned is that he is young and inexperienced which is a reason for maybe the lack of overall success but Romeo has come out and said that although he’s the HC he’s also going to be wrapped up witth the defense so he needs an OC that can take care of the entire offensive operation a little bit more then an OC wold normally be asked to do. Now do we really want a young, inexperienced OC filling that role? Its going to depend on how he works and his personality and I think that will make or break this hiring. It might be just a little bit too much for Daboll too soon.

good post

we’ll just have to wait and see.

Well we tried the old and experienced route with Muir

And that didn’t work.

And 3 years of OC experience and 15 years of coaching experience at the collegiate and NFL level isn’t exactly inexperienced.

I learned my lesson from Frank Haith.

It’s usually a good idea to wait and see what they do before saying they’re a bad choice.

You can make the same case for

Al Saunders before he came to the Chiefs. His offense with the Chargers was not very impressive and only had a few years of OC experience. Then again, look at the offensive line that he inherited. All HOFers. Oh yeah, and a guy named Priest.

and he didn't do much with the Raiders in 2010

just saying :-)

Good pick up

This means the playbook will be something close of what they ran with Wies. Cassel will pick it up fast. Even if another QB comes in. Cassel will help that person and Stanzi pick it up. Just like he helped Orton. Daboll has a explosive playbook. Bush is just like Charles. With Al Saunders didnt do anything at Oakland with Hue’s playbook and Hue calling the plays. And of course Zorn unproven with what playbook, well at least one that the Chief’s didn’t want to run. Zorn being a QB he most likely wanted to pass more than run. It’s all about trying to keep everything almost the same no dramatic start overs.

TJ up the middle, TJ up the middle and Screen Pass to JC? AWESOME!
the playbook will be something close of what they ran with Weis
Don't forget the always productive delayed handoff / draw on 3rd and 14!
I'm just praying they keep using Dex as something like a regular RB

Where he produced well.

Not Rocket Science

Young man with known ability, able to adjust to defenses and a history of working well with Crennel. Geez, people! An OC is not the end all and be all. His job is to coordinate the offense, not play the game or acquire talent. It is other people’s jobs to acquire and keep good personnel. Everyone, I believe, is making too much of the OC position, and many posters here are displaying the same kind of “hovering fan syndrome” and “helicopter journalist syndrome”that has made KC a difficult place to play, coach, or put together a winning program. Its not rocket science. Give these people a few years and keep drafting and acquiring FA"s who are good and a good match for their philosophy and system. Evreryone just chill. Championship programs happen in franchises whose fans and journalists back off on the pressure and allow teams to evolve and succeed as a coordinated unit. The excessive second-guessing and criticism after short periods of time is the prime cause of why the Chiefs have not won a championship for four decades. The teams that do win championships have fan bases and sports journalists that kind of back off a little and find other things to hang their lives and fortunes on. KC fans and journalists are, in my opinion the prime culprits in the lack of success this franchise has displayed. Look in the mirror, folks.

So it's our fault we haven't won a SB since 1970?

Now I’m really depressed.

not OUR fault, Tark ... YOUR fault

sheeeeesh, get it straight

I'm breaking all my mirrors now.
That's a great point

Probably why the Giants just won the Super Bowl. Because ya know in NYC the fans and press dont put any pressure on their teams.

Don’t make excuses. After 40 years without a championship do you expect fans to NOT put pressure on the team to succeed?

Fans need get over themselves

mOST OF TIME fans are wrong about hires. And who runs business and don’t hire people you know and trust to do their jobs. Why hire someone you don’t have expericence working with and it may blow up in your face see Haley who wasn’t from Patriots. Bottom line Daboll got most out of very bad roster in Cleveland and Miami. I know this Mccoy hasn’t played nearly as good since he left Cleveland. And in Miami Marshall went from looking like bad free agent pickup his 1st yr in South beach to pro bowl player under Daboll. Factor in Bush 1st 1000 yard rushing season and Matt Moore best yr as pro this guy knows how to maximize talent. And with this loaded roster in KC i expect very explosive offense this season if we can improve oline and hopefully either resign Orton or
Stanzi emerge as this yr starter. If we have to roll with Cassel I’m sure he can get Cassel to at very least play the way Moore did last season which if that’s the case with our defense we should win 10plus games with that kind of production.

It's sorry ass moves like this

Continuously retreading new england coaches. One was on nfl network last night saying bill bellichick was the only cook in the kitchen and the rest were custodians or something. Custodians might not be the right term but the point was being made that nobody else on the coaching staff mattered at all. We keep bringing in retreads thinking something magic will happen but it won’t. You fail at OC which cascades to the whole team failing. Short of RG3 to KC I won’t be buying tickets this year again. You know it’s shitty when people make hate signs about being season ticket holders and put them on display on fences in their yard. I thought they were going to fix this tem but they are not. Give it two seasons and we start filling all the vacancies on the staff again.

including the GM I hope.
I have a horrible feeling..

Pioli is a complete idiot. I have never heard of a successful business, or organization which recruits its staff from the exact same place all the time. This has become complete none sense!

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