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Third Shift Open Thread

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We are in a slow couple of weeks in terms of football news. We've got the NFL Combine coming up and....that's about it. Free agency will start in March but there isn't too much lead up to that. Thankfully, we have AP. There are always conversations happening around here, 24/7.

Speaking of conversations, this is your open thread for the evening. Use it to talk about whatever you want.

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Comments

Chad Henne

Can’t help but think that we bring in Henne to compete for a backup job. Learned the Miami offense last year from our new OC and is free to sign. NOT saying that I would like this unless he is super cheap. Would rather sign Josh Johnson. That aside, I could really see this happening.

How about that Kyle Orton guy?

Wouldn’t he be a better option?

God no, what did Orton ever do except beat a team who only had one other loss all season?
That 19 point explosion was amazing.
36 minutes TOP
If the Chiefs win with that identity, I'd be happy.

Close, low scoring games aren’t the best long term recipe from my eyes though.

But that's what the Broncos did and they're the best thing ever!

You just don’t think that will work long term because Tebow’s religious.

That model stopped working for them after a few weeks it went there way.

When your model relies on random variables, count me out.

Why the vast army of Tebow supporters can't see this is beyond me.
You can still win in this league

by fielding a solid defense and controlling the ball. Sustain drives and make the most in the redzone.

Making the most in the red zone is the key

I’m coming around on DeCastro in the first to help in this area.

Agreed on DeCastro
good, very good to hear! :-)
I still think 11/12 is high for him, but the more I read, the more I think he's an exception like Steve Hutchinson

Bottom line is getting talent when you draft, doesn’t really matter what the group think on value of position is.

precisely ... and the guy is dripping with talent

I love that we could plug him in immediately and have a vry young but very good OLine interior group for many years to come

DeCastro – Hudson – Asamoah

that just makes me think of the Saints OLine … only potentially even better

A back to replace Battle/Jones in the later rounds

Would be nice as well.

I see a trend here

Your legion of brainwashed idiots followers is growing

I know

but I still need to infiltrate Pioli’s office figure out a way to bribe the Chiefs draft team convince a few people yet

G-Men Recipe for Success
That and a fearsome defensive line that can get pressure with 4 guys
Soliai would be a nice FA grab

wonder if he and Daboll get along

Good point and question.

If MIA goes to the 4-3 like rumored then Soliai isn’t a good fit for them there. Daboll probably has pretty good insight on him too as to how good he actually is

and I imagine he's pretty good ...

he’s one of very few FA’s that interest me this year

I'm not for picking Devon Still

but I have seen alot of mocks where people think the Chiefs moght go in that direction. Soliai might be expensive but offense we need to address first IMO

in the draft sorry
FWIW

In all 3 of Orton’s starts with KC, we won the TOP battle.

not bad for all the passing he did
I see what you did there :-)
Never bring someone in strictly for a backup
KU just totally destroyed Baylor tonite

The Jayhawks were pissed

The Big 12 race reminds me of the AFC West race this year.

Except I didn’t write an embarrassing-in-hindsight fanpost about it this time.

One of Chiefs, Raiders, or Chargers will win the division

shudder

Texas Tech?

Couldn’t happen could it….

They are mathematically eliminated.

Iowa State or Kansas State are probably the Broncos of the Big 12. They’re the only ones that are even within a miracle of winning the division.

This Kansas win puts Mizzou in a tough spot.

the game against Baylor Saturday is now a must-win. And if we don’t win at Kansas, we’ll need Kansas to drop one of their remaining games, which doesn’t seem to likely. On the other hand, Kansas isn’t exactly known for taking care of business against teams they should beat.

If Mizzou wins in Lawrence in a couple weeks, the conference is pretty much ours. And that would be awesome to go out with a sweep of Kansas in Basketball and Football and a Big 12 title.

Yeah I was trying to figure out last night what would work best

KU beating Baylor and if we could too then Baylor is toast

Baylor beating KU and then if we beat Baylor we got em both down a game

I guess MU just has to keep winning :)

It seemed pretty obvious that Baylor was the third team.

They had already gotten blown out by Kansas and lost to Mizzou at home. Personally, even before today, I didn’t really think Baylor was a team I would be scared of. If Mizzou falls off enough to let Baylor jump us, we’ll probably finish behind Kansas too.

Only one way to put Kansas down (if there is even one)

I think MU has to do it themselves

I'm not so sure.

If there’s one team who could choke against a Texas Tech, it’s Kansas. Or they do play at Oklahoma State two days after the play Mizzou, that could be a trap game.

What's all this "we" talk?

Sounds like your lumping me in. KU wins TW big 12 outright. Mark my words. Happens every year. Like clockwork.

*the, now TW
*not, not now!

Error fix reply fail

except when it doesn't :-)
just keep winning, that's all it is
Matt Cassel is going to make a great backup QB for us next year

, Cassel, Stanzi. Fill in the blank.

Agree

Matt would be an awesome Backup QB

nice!
Orton is the logical answer
yuppers he is

but I’m not sure Pioli is driven by logic at all times

Just pick up your trash in the hallway

and you won’t have any problems.

damn, I need some coffee ...
no more than 1 scoop of Great Value per full pot.
Get any more expensive coffee, and we won't be able to afford Orton's $40 mil guaranteed contract
How do we know Orton would cost that much?
And how in the world would you think he would cost less?
Interesting stats

Cassel has nearly the same completion percentage and average comp per attempt. with 2010 and 2011. I think the difference is Jamaal Charles. I think he made Cassel look good in 2010. Well anyway its just a thought

In 2010, Cassel's NY/A was lower than Charles' Y/C

I’m willing to bet that we are the only team to pull that off in the last 10 years.

well hey, at least we might get some attention for SOMETHING ;-)
We need some gnus

Sign our guys and get some news going. Without news you get your face in the toilet or hugging on a boat, ha!

North Carolina pushed in a 3 by Duke.

That’s the funniest thing I’ve ever seen.

And Duke wins.

Crazy finish.

Austin Rivers with the big shot.
The stunned faces in the North Carolina crowd are hilarious.
So barring a collapse of another team, Mizzou and Kansas are battling for the last #1 seed.

What a way to end the conference rivalry. Hopefully Kansas will join the SEC after the Big 12 collapses.

I doubt the SEC would accept Kansas but

I would not be against that move. I was hoping Kansas could somehow get into the SEC back when shit was hitting the fan last year.

they'd lose every game in football if they were in SEC

and win almost every game in basketball

IOW nothing would really change

Hey, we have wies and Tim grunhard now

It’s getting better…until wies leaves next year…. I’m more of a college basketball fan anyways. Would love the fact that I could go watch some of the SEC football power houses up in Lawrence though. Plus the SEC would become a great basketball conference too with kentucky, Kansas, Missouri, and florida.

A KU fan that's more into basketball than football? I've never seen one of those.

But that’s actually a good point. Football is #1, but would the SEC consider the fact that they’re not too far off from being a good basketball conference, and adding Kansas would put them over the top, even if it hurts football a little? That would allow them to be virtually guaranteed multiple title contenders in both sports.

Plus playing Kansas in football would be like a bye week for all the other SEC schools.
Reminds me of a PE class in high school.

Where, when making teams, the guy decided to make it even by having one girl per team, but there was one guy who sucked so bad that he was included with the girls.

You mean a dominant football conference doesn't want a basketball school?

On the other hand, I would find it really funny if Kansas had to go to the WAC or something.

Kirk Cousins

A guy I have been checking out lately. Looks like he has some major potential in my eyes.

22-5 in last two seasons at Michigan State.

Career 65% completion percentage.

He shows good poise in the pocket. A pro style QB. He makes good solid throws.

I think he could make a very good QBOTF for someone.

I always put him and Stanzi as just about even.

But Stanzi is a little more of a gamer IMO. I went the the Mich St@ Neb game this year and we absolutely embarrassed that team and offense. I had heard so much about Cousins and BJ Cunningham, but they fell flat on their faces.

Every guy has their days

Just by watching him play and his mechanics. I think he has great potential. I’m not saying he is the next Brady or Manning but he could run a team one day.

He is a pure pocket passer. He examines the field and makes the throw.
He has good size and is an amazing leader. They freaking LOVE this guy….I believe he was a 3 time team captain

Nebraska, when tuned up and running right, can embarass almost any team
Oh and

BJ Cunningham didn’t play against Nebraska….or so it says on his game log. Otherwise BJ is a big WR who had 12 TD receptions.

Actually Cunningham did play against Neb

We just shut him down for zero catches.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=313020158

I'd like to know what's up with all the "hate" for Carr

way too many people who think he’s second-rate or worse and willing to give him up … he’s actually a Top 10 CB in two major statistical categories

You ready to lock up $50 mil guaranteed in two CBs?

Or let Travis Daniels shine with a chance to start/

is this an Orton or Carr situation?

glad I’m not the one making any of these decisions.

It is not.

From the numbers I’ve seen, there is no reason we can’t have both.

And if that prevents us from signing someone like Peyton?
Then no deal.

But I don’t think Carr and Bowe will take us out of the race. I used numbers from last offseason and made some guesses to estimate where we’d be this year when making that conclusion, so I may be off if we don’t have as much space as I thought. But we should still have $20 million in space even after signing those two.

But then we need to get Mcclain too

Maybe Gilberry, Gregg?

And like shanghai said below, what of any other free agents to be brought in? Big time, long term NT? Imo, that is MUCH more important than a second $8-10 mil a year CB.

#44 4evah!

sorry, turned in to a little girl for a minute.

You could argue CB is more important.

Stopping the pass is the #1 priority of a defense, so you have to consider which position does a better job at it. The Lions have a fantastic D-Line, but still struggle on defense because of a lack of good defensive backs. We seem to have a lot of good d-backs, so we might not need Carr so much. But I don’t think the answer is clear.

Huge droppoff in our CB talent

after Flowers/Carr

how much does getting #29 back help this?

i’d love to keep him. but he’s on the bubble in my mind.

QB, RT, NT, ILB, other OL OL OL etc are NEEDS, not “awesome to haves”

Even with #29 back

we still need to gain some depth at both safety positions.

Antonio Allen, Round 3
I think Berry will make a world of difference.

Look at how bad the Steelers are when Polomalu is hurt. That strong safety might be the most important position on the field outside of QB.

As for NT, I don’t think we can do much. I haven’t looked too much into it, but I doubt we can find much in FA. I think our best bet is to hope Powe has developed enough.

NT - paul soliai (MIA)
yeah, he's on my short list
Hellz yeah...

Didn't know this..
Soliai spend two seasons at Coffeyville Community College in Coffeyville, Kansas. He was a two-time All-Kansas Jayhawk Community College Conference offensive lineman. He earned an honorable mention All-American selection in 2002, and was a First-team junior college All-American as a sophomore in 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Soliai

get it done scotty

without googling, how old is he?

Walter Football has him rated as top NT FA
At 6-4, 355 pounds, Paul Soliai is a monstrous, run-stuffing nose tackle. He made $12.3 million with the franchise tag this season.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2012DT.php

I know, he rocks

and he’s gonna be ’spensive

but he’d likely do us more good than Noodle Arm manning … and for a lot longer, too

It would be hard to turn down Solail over Manning

And I would still go with QB over NT, but man, I want that man on my d-line (that sounded naughty)

But getting to the QB is just as important

Look at the reigning super bowl champs. Questionable secondary, strong pass rush. I think a pass rush can make up for a spotty secondary berret than the other way around.

A dominant NT will only help free up pass rushers.

But why get rid of strength when you already have one?

Shouldn’t they just keep the strength as is, and work to upgrade the pass rush thru the draft?

You got it. It’s counter productive to let Carr walk. I have heard several people say we can replace him in Free Agency. Why would we want to do that?

Its not necessarily a downgrade if the team feels Daniels can step in

Which if Carr walks, I’m betting they are leaning that direction.

This was Carr’s best season, it was during a contract year, he flashed the “pay me” sign during the season. See a trend?

I don't get the impression

Carr is a diva. He was a D2 guy and has had to work hard to get where he is now.

yeah, I see a trend ...

Pioli’s failure to sign Cass a year ago when he SHOULD have!

Fair enough

But considering many were ready to see him gone up until this year (turn your head around, carr!), is it really a surprise he wasn’t signed long term? Giving him one more season under the RFA tag was the smart thing to do, and Carr has definitely used it to his advantage by raising his stock, but does the team think his rise will continue, or was it for the money? Time will tell.

Likely the same for Bowe (“Contract has got to be right”)

we?

maybe YOU were ready to see him gone …

Reading skills are on par with your math skills, I see

Did I say “we” wanted him gone? No, I said “many” wanted him gone.

And the only “many” that matter are the ingres who sign his checks. It was arguably the right call by tagging him to see how he developed for a season.

For all we know, the team tried to get a deal done with him through the season, and Carr pulled a Tamba, refused to discuss until the end of the season to allow his play to dictate his stock to rise, and now wants more than the team was willing to commit to him before the end of the season.

what's an "ingre"
It was supposed to be "ones"

My swype just makes up words sometimes.

I'd ask what a "swype" is but I'm pretty sure you'd make that up, too
Swype is the app that allows moving of finger over keyboard to type words instead of actually pressing each individual button

You “swype” over the keyboard instead of type

if you don't say the word cellphone

he’ll think you’re talking about your computer. which actually would be a pretty neat trick.

I'm actually talking about my Terminator robot

Skynet allowed me to have one

dude Cyberdyne is real

http://www.cyberdyne.jp/english/ sure it all starts out with friendly helper robots but then wolfram down there gets involved and the next thing we know we’ve get in a car with a muscled up governor (if we want to live). its all very complicated and scary…

fine

grab Soliai … draft Poe if you must, but KEEP CARR!

Delaney, have you lost your mind?

wait, don’t answer that …

but DUDE! you ask if having a pair of top CB’s like Flowers and Carr is worth it … in THIS league? by your own admission the NFL is a “pass happy” league … how could you NOT want two of the best CB’s in the league?

and having those two makes it MUCH easier for the SS and FS to work underneath and support the LB’s if needed … and/or blitz and/or allow the defense to be FAR more flexible than it would be otherwise

Having Flowers/Carr on the corners

makes Romeo’s job a lot easier. He is able to do a lot more because he trusts those guys in man-to-man coverage. Sign.. Carr…

remember when the Braves kept winning and winning and winning with 2-3 of THE best pitchers in baseball

and every game it seemed like one of those guys was on the mound … and winning

there’s a reason they kept all those guys for so long … and kept winning for over a decade

According to rotoworld...

BFlo is raking in 5.75 mil this year, unless I’m reading it wrong.

a lot more than that
we should still have $20 million in space even after signing those two
how about worry about Ol' Noodle Arm if and when the times comes that he's actually throwing like a real QB
And if that prevents us from signing someone like Peyton?
and bowe

and stud NT?

actually, I do remember seeing something like that with cap. but again at the end of the day, are we going all in this year?

We have to reach the floor when the 2013 season starts.

So we’re going to have to spend money somewhere. And I don’t think Manning cripples us. As long as we believe Stanzi will develop or we draft someone who should be able to develop, we’ll be fine when Manning leaves or gets injured.

as much as i'd welcome manning

IMO the QB brought in for competition will be considerably less drool-worthy. /nohomo

we’ve had tons of lists on the possibilities as to whom they may be. Orton and Campbell (yes I know but we’ll see) are the only ones I’ll sit up and clap for.

I think they will go after Manning if they think he's healthy.

But short of him, I hope Orton is the guy. I looked at his numbers, and I’m starting to think he could be a good-but-not-great QB with our talent, and that’s all we really need with our defense.

Yes

Orton, please. We don’t need a world beater. We just need an upgrade over Cassel for now.

Delaney, what imaginary universe are you pulling numbers from?

seriously

first, those contracts don’t always reflect the actual payments, and they can be structured a myriad of ways

second, Carr is one of THE best CB’s in the league right now, hands down … to NOT pay him the same as Flowers is ridiculous (and yes, I have done research – he’s well worth it)

third, we have the cap space so that’s not an issue

as to Daniels, if he’s that good then he’ll show it on the field as the next guy in the depth chart and he’ll be brought in more often in nickel or dime situations as needed … so what’s the problem?

Flowers and Carr with Berry lurking

Reminds me of Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent with Brian Dawkins lurking. The Eagles thought that was a good set up, I’d like it here long term. You can always structure the contract to get out of one of the deals in a few years.

yup ... helluva secondary we have going

no reason to screw it up …

Uhhhh, pretty basic math

App. $25 mil guaranteed + app. $25 mil guaranteed = app. $50 mil guaranteed. There are no imaginary numbers there

ok, how about you go get the ACTUAL contract figures and payment schedule for Flowers

I expect it on my desk by morning

in triplicate!

What part of "guaranteed" do you not understand?

I’m concerned about your employ as a contributor to this site if you are having trouble with a simple word like that ;-)

what part of "it doesn't all count in the same year" do YOU not understand?

and I’m not a contributor, I’m an editor!

and I’m not employed, I’m … well, I don’t make $25Mil, that’s for sure

Someone smarter than me wanna interpret that? I's no gud wit nombers
9/16/2011: Signed a six-year, $49.35 million contract. The deal contains $22 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus. $11 million of Flowers’ guaranteed money is guaranteed for both skill and injury, although the other $11 million is guaranteed solely for injury. Another $1.25 million is available through escalators applicable to the final year. Flowers is eligible for annual $250,000 workout bonuses in seasons two through six. 2012: $5.75 million, 2013: $7.35 million, 2014: $5.25 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus), 2015: $6.25 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus), 2016: $6.5 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus), 2017: Free Agent
So, of his guaranteed 22 mil...

10 of it he received up front… where’s the other 12? Is it 6 years of 2-mil reporting bonuses? No comprende…

good man!

you may continue your employment here at One Arrowhead Drive …

… and pick up that candy wrapper on the way out

Emphasis on the $22 mil guaranteed part
Sounds to me like it's prorated...

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

Questions 1.7a-e

Minus the 10 mil signing bonus he got upfront...
And was that signing bonus fake money?

That is part of his guaranteed money, so again, we will have paid app. $50 mil in for seasons with a Carr contract that is similar to Flowers’

That is all my point was.

Goes back to Ups point...

If its prorated, its a bit more affordable. More to the point, you made it seem incredulous to put another CB 8-10 mil a year, as if they aren’t paying that much or more, total contract over seasons, to the LB corp.

As if the Steelers aren't paying that much...

Where the fuk is my head

and if you honestly think your APPROXIMATIONS are precise OR think they apply to ONE YEAR of cap space then you need to re-think dramatically
No one said one year, so don't throw words that were never said into this convo
ok, but that's the issue here ... cap space

not total contract, cap space per year

we have plenty

look, do you REALLY think TJax is gonna get 13 Mil in 2013 just becaue the contract says so?

I'm not talking about anything other than what the team would pay out in guarantees likely over the first 3 years of his contract

That is close to $50 mil in a four year span (Flowers in this last season, and Carr starting next season). Its really a simple question, ups. Do you want to commit that to the 2 of them? Yes or no? There really is no argument, it would just tell you the difference between our opinions about how to allocate money amongst certain positions. That is all

Do I want to commit that to the 2 of them?

sorry, I'm still not getting it.
I operate under the Big Ben theory of conversation

No means yes. Yes means no.

Crucial that we retain Carr
it is

and we have plenty of cap room to re-sign Carr, Bowe, McClain and still go after guys like Soliai, Orton and Bush or another FA RB

How about Kahlil Bell opposed to Bush?
I love wolfram alpha.

It has made my life so much easier.

you worry me at times
Why? That seemed like a relatively benign comment.

Emphasis on relatively.

and what, pray tell, is wolfram alpha?
It's kind of like Google, except it does integrals.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/

It is a Physics major’s best friend.

schweeeeeeeeeeeeeet
duly bookmarked :-) ty!
when the machines rise up, wolfram will be the motherbrain
My FA wishlist:

Retain:
Carr
Bowe
McClain
Orton

Add:
Paul Soliai – NT, Mia (Age – 27)
Kahlil Bell – RB, Chi (Age – 25)
Geoff Schwartz – OT/G, Car (Age – 26)

Also.. go ahead and retain Belcher

FELLAS

Jeremy Renner and Ed Norton in The Borne Legacy??? HELLS YES!

youtu.be/NZbZm-uA0EU

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