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Arrowhead Pride

If He Enters Free Agency, Brandon Carr Should Be A Hot Commodity

The Kansas City Chiefs have two big free agents this year -- Dwayne Bowe and Brandon Carr -- and both of them are considered to be two of the top talents available. At receiver, perhaps only DeSean Jackson and Vincent Jackson would rank above Dwayne Bowe.

And at cornerback, Carr might be the No. 1 guy available. At least according to the free agent rankings from Pete Prisco of CBSSports.com. In a ranking of the top 50 free agents, Carr comes in at No. 2.

How often do good man-cover players in their prime hit the market? This kid is about to get paid. He is this high because he plays a premium position well. He turns 26 in May.

Young. Premium position. Good locker room guy. Homegrown. There are more than a few reasons Romeo Crennel said Carr (and Bowe) was among the team's top priorities.

So how is everyone feeling about Carr? Nervous he'll leave? Confident he'll return?

0 recs  |  303 comments

Comments

Nervous he'll leave

Hope promoting Romeo to HC can help sway him back if/when he makes the rounds.

The 1961 Ferrari, two-fifty GT California. Less than a hundred were made.

If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away?

Neither would I.

Damn you

now I want to go watch that movie.

I sense a mid-day bubonic plague coming on… I won’t possibly be able to work anymore.

I'm so disappointed in chai1836

Twenty bucks says he’s sitting in front of his computer debating about whether or not he should pop the top to the lotion.

Debating?

I’m a Master-Debater….

Hell yeah I'm nervous he'll leave

One way they could remedy the situation is going D first round with Kirkpatrick, tagging and re-signing Bowe long term.

Pioli wants hometown discounts

Which Hali, Flowers, and Charles basically gave. Carr has every right to get his money and despite our cap space he won’t be paid more than Flowers by Pioli

Pioli couldve got Carr at a discount.

He blew it and franchise tendered him again. Now he has to pay.

RFA tendered*
yep. Carr could have been locked up prior to this season but instead, got the bare minimum

I don’t think Pioli has shown in the past that he’ll overpay to keep someone, as it’s not part of his philosophy, so if either Bowe or Carr don’t get signed prior to FA, one of them gets tagged, the other is gone.

you can do that in New England

they have won Championships..players WANT to play there…you cant do that in KC…they have won nothing in 40 years…its about money AND winning…

I agree. There are some aspects of the business model that need to be recalibrated

based on location, recent history of superbowl appearances etc. Like it or not, the Chiefs are in the bottom 4-5 teams for last time to win a playoff game with the Bengals and the rest of the bottom dwellers.

Wtf are you talking about?

Hali is now one of the highest paid players in the league. 5 yr 60 mil with like 38 mil guaranteed. Hometown discount my butt.

He is arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL.

I bet he would have gotten over 70 in the open market, maybe close to 75. Seymour despite his contract issues is getting 15 a year in Oakland. Hali in my opinion is better, he just isn’t as greedy. He would get close to 15 if he really tried.

Carr won't be back unless he's franchised.

I expect him to test the market and the Chiefs to get outbid for his services if he is a FA. Bowe, on the other hand, finds himself competing against other good FA WRs. Bowe could be re-signed by KC at fair market value. Not Carr.

he will be franchised.

i just can’t see romeo letting him slip away.

I'm very nervous.

I think he likes KC and I know he has a very special relationship with Brandon Flowers…I hope they can make it work…If he is offered the same contract they gave Flowers last season, I’m not sure he will take it because he would demand more on the open market…Having said that, the people who think offering more to Carr would upset Flowers are foolish and do not have any idea the relationship between these two…not saying I know a lot but I know enough to confidently say Flowers wouldn’t be mad that his best friend is making more money then he is…

Losing either of these guys...

Makes me feel a little sick. I still get a little sick about Jared Allen. I know we got something out of the trade, but still, I am not convinced it wasn’t a zero sum deal. I just hate seeing hometown studs playing for other teams.

He's going to Detroit....worried all along he'd do that

maybe here.

Our man Octophosphate paid them a visit yesterday.

From Michigan, went to college in Michigan

Team is good and needs a corner on a good defense.

Fits well. Sadly.

got ya

I’s just throwing out recent interest in Carr.

yeah....he's going to have a lot of interest I would assume

Always have to put Redskins up there.

yeehaw! busted!

but true – if I were Washington I’d put him over what they have now. Was never a fan of Deangelo Hall’s antics.

But really – he’ll be a solid fit just about anywhere he goes. He should be highly sought after.

Detroit owes megatron 20 million

No way they can afford a premium corner like Carr.

Last year some (including myself) were ridiculed for suggesting this:
Brandon Carr is possibly the best #2 corner in the league, and he’s better than most team’s #1’s.

Now I think it’s hard to argue that.

He had a big year

Pioli made a big mistake not re-signing him last offseason. I hope he doesn’t make the same mistake with Albert.

I agree

Albert should get locked up during the season this year, if not sooner.

He's only improving too

Just came off his best year and was his best by a long shot. If he gets to the Pro Bowl next year after being snubbed this year his price will only be that much higher.

Kind of like Carr

He was pretty good in ‘10, but was much better in ’11. I hope the same mistake isn’t repeated.

He was a top 10 corner in '10

It wasnt noticed because Flowers had that 3 game stretch where he was the best in the league.

I still didn't see him get his head around enough that year to call him top 10

But I trust you :)

Well shutting down the WR is good enough for me :D
I've always been big on Carr

But if you told me last year that there would be this many fans stressed about him possibly leaving I wouldve laughed at you.

You probably did. =)
I've said it. And gotten ridiculed. He is now better than Flowers, I believe that. And Flowers is damn good.

I knew as soon as Carr started getting his head around and finding the ball when he is 1 on 1 that he would totally be a stud and about halfway through last season something clicked and ever since then he has been finding the ball incredibly well. Less penalties, more batted balls, he is just better.

I'm getting there

We know he wants to get paid, and I don’t see us shelling out more money to him than to Flowers. That’s a lot of money to tie into the secondary.

OT, remember when we had NO free agents we cared about losing?

Jimmy Wilkerson

gave Carl a good run for his money for like 1.5 season’s.

It's become a passing league

so I don’t see anything wrong with spending on your secondary.

I can get behind that reasoning
Interesting stat

Twelve QBs made the playoffs this last season, and only 5 of them completed more than 60% of their passes in the playoffs.

Defenses tighten up in the playoffs

Refs allow more physicality.

Are they willing to bet $30 million that Jalil is ready to go?
I'm not.

Because he’s not.

You’ve got a top 10 secondary that is young, and should be performing at this level for many more years. Lock that shit down. Not worth the experiment.

Exactly.

His relationships with Flowers and RAC are irreplaceable. It makes zero sense for him to go elsewhere.

more like cents

I am guessing he can find about 37.5 million reasons over 5 years to leave, play in his hometown, and fill a need on the Lions. The pressure is to get Bowe signed, so the Chiefs can tag then trade Carr so we don’t lose him for nothing.

One would IMAGINE

That Berry, Lewis, Flowers, and Carr all realize the opportunity in front of them… right?

The weakest link there is Lewis, and he was a very good ballhawk for a 2nd year guy.

I agree

I don’t know how you don’t lock up one of the best secondaries in the league.

After his play this year, Kendrick's right up there.

He was above and beyond what I expected, especially with the crap we threw on the field at the other safety position.

But yeah, playing for Emmitt Thomas and RAC, alongside three other guys you love playing with? Gotta think that factors in.

The problem with this line of thought is........

…it doesn’t take into account how far under the cap we are. The Chiefs can easily sign Carr & Bowe, plus make a big splash in free agency. (they won’t)

Money isn’t an issue, philosophy might be. Personally, I just think Pioli is a dumbass and will fuck this deal up because he mistakes arrogance for intelligence.

I'm having trouble following why I should be taking cap space into account

When discussing Carr’s motivations?

There are a lot of factors to take into consideration

What other positions they plan on pursuing in FA, development of our players here…

What if, for example, they believe they can bring in or rotate in a guy who is 80% as good but costs half as much so they can make other moves?

Now, given our space, I’m not sure that’ll be an issue, but it’s something to consider.

True

But that’s a gamble with a secondary that is one signed player away from being set for five+ years

True

And it’s quite the secondary. If your worst player (and by quite a long shot) in your starting secondary is Kendrick Lewis, you’re doing VERY well.

I like Lewis, but I don't love him as much as most

He missed a lot of tackles last year from what I saw.

Still a good young player though. And with those other guys around him, it’s still a great secondary.

WEll he is a FS afterall

Tacklibg RBs should be his last concern, see: last year

He plays defense

Tackling should be a priority

Actually

His first priority should be to get the ball back for the offense

first priority

is getitng the ball back for the Offense and the easiest way to do something like that is to let the opposing offense go 3 and out… that should include tackling and taking the ball away

By definition,

as a free safety, his 1st priority is to cover pass plays (get the ball back), his second responsibilty is to tackle anybody around him

i agree

Kendrick Lewis reminds me alot of Jared Page, and one of the reason why we got rid of him was because he couldn’t wrap his damn arms around somebody… always going for the shoulder big hit which big WR’s just bounce off of and run in for the TD

My favorite part about this secondary

is it’s all home-grown talent. In fact I like the look of the Chiefs as a whole compared to the 90’s and 00’s. Much less reliance on free agent veterans than the Carl years.

The only starting position on the defense that hasn’t been a Chief for life is NT.

Wow, I hadn't realized that

The defense is almost entirely homegrown. What about Belcher? I’m pretty sure we didn’t draft him. Was he an undrafted rookie?

yep...from Maine.
That's right.

If they start Powe or pick up another NT in the draft, the base D will be entirely homegrown. That’s actually pretty amazing. I wonder if any other team could claim that?

What about the rotational guys? We drafted Bailey and Javi. I think Gilberry was also an undrafted rook. I believe Studebaker was also undrafted. Drawing a blank on the others right now.

We acquired Studebaker

off of the Eagles practice squad. He was a 6th round draft pick for them.

An all homegrown defense would be impressive
Why gamble?

If you’re top 10 with a bunch of young players, it’s not out of the question to think those same guys can be top 5. We’ve got way too much cap space to be taking gambles to save money…especially since we’re never active in FA.

I agree

I’m just trying to figure out other lines of thinking.

The only excuse in my book would be if they’re going BIG in FA this year and don’t believe they can afford Carr. And it’d have to be big to justify it… Like Nicks, Soliai, AND Manning

Carr > Nicks > Soliai in my book.
youre writing a book?
Yup.

Well, more like a Kindle Single.

(Carr=Bowe) > soliai > nicks
Whatever's clever.

Point is, Carr’s more important to the team than the other FA’s.

you bet
Hmmm... maybe. I could probably go with that
I think he knows he is more valuable playing across from Flowers.

Major worry would be Detroit for a hometown move.

Carr the Cowboy. Or Lion.
Hopefully they retain both

but if you want to prioritize who they need to resign or tag, has to be Carr. There will be a slim supply of good young corners on the free agent market, unlike receiver.

Can't overlook the draft

Pioli could set himself up with leverage similarly he did with Bowe by drafting a player at that position in the 1st round. Bowe:Baldwin/Carr:Kirkpatrick. There are options, just limited

Re: Lions

They’re in cap trouble. All those years of drafting in top 5 are coming back to haunt them, especially after hitting on some of these picks. They have Avril & Johnson they need to re-do and they already have a lot of money tied up on that D’s front line. I know Gunther and ties to Detroit add up, I’m just not seeing it

Question is:

Does he take a discount to go back to Detroit to help them out, does he take a discount to play across from Flowers and for RAC, or does he go for the big payday?

All good questions

Him having never really received a big payday, it’s not hard to imagine that he just wants to make the biggest bucks he can.

True.

But is a significant bump and playing for a team/coach he knows he likes enough to make that happen?

I can't say

I do know that if it were me, I’d want to stay with the Chiefs. All homerism aside, his job just gets harder if he leaves here. Here, he’s got a phenomenal secondary he’s comfortable with around him. He’s also got Hali, you gets to the QB more often than pretty much anyone in the league, and Houston, a gifted up and coming pass rusher.

Even throw in DJ, a great ILB who helps out with coverage and keeps the CBs from having to deal with RB’s very often.

It would seem like the most logical course for me unless he’s getting offered way more money elsewhere

And if that's the case, I put another hashmark in the "Pioli, Negative" category.

No excuse.

Pretty sure he knows Gunther too
Best years of career > not great rookie season
No doubt.

But is Gunther a bigger pull than RAC and Thomas?

Then he knows how terrible he is

I’m surprised the guy is still employed in Detroit. That defense was a colossal disappointment.

They're in real trouble with Johnson

Not sure off the top of my head what the cap hit would be if they had to franchise him. But I remember it being astronomical because of some incentives he hit or something.

How do you franchise Megatron?

You HAVE to pay the best receiver in the league.

he has all the leverage

his franchise number would be like $21 million or something redonkulous. He’s going for the biggest contract ever. Has to take time to figure that out…..but he is worth it.

Jesus.

That cap hit alone is enough to sign the deal. Get it over with so you know what you actually have left.

Cap hit if they franchise him is over 20M$.
I could have sworn that they owe him 20 mil THIS year

It’s already factored in. The concern is next year, when his contract is up. You don’t let Calvin Johnson walk away.

http://www.examiner.com/sports-media-in-detroit/the-detroit-lions-and-the-salary-cap

Nervous he'll leave isn't the way I'd say it.

I’m nervous our front office is going to fuck this whole deal up. It is going to be extremely difficult to see Carr and or Bowe playing in another uniform if it comes to that. There is no reason why we shouldn’t lock both of these guys down.

Right. I don't want to hear about being outbid. There's no excuse for that to happaen.
There is no reason why we shouldn’t lock both of these guys down.
Nope

This should be the perfect example of why we have been so far under the cap the past however many years: Resign our own, badass talent.

Sad to even be talking about this

I know it happens but man….smh……You need Carr. The Draft is always a guess. You never know if someone is going to be good or a bust. This guy is proven right now and in his prime? Pay him and get over the strategy crap.

You have to tag Carr if you can't resign him.

He’s too talented to let walk with the depth we have. He cannot be replaced easily with this current team. His only replacement can be a top draft pick. As far as Bowe, If we were to lose him, it would hurt. But we could hide his loss easier with guys currently under contract. Plus with Cassel throwing…….

Exactly

as much as I love Bowe, there are other options that will be out there that can easily fill the hole left by him (Jackson, Colston, Lloyd, etc). Unless Jalil Brown is ready to rock, Carr will be hard to replace anytime soon.

I would almost shocked if Carr isn't the guy we franchise.

There’s just too many good, big time WRs hitting the open market which should either keep Bowes demands lower or offer up plenty of replacements. Also Bowe’s talking lately like he’s just waiting for the longterm deal with us to get done like it could happen any week now and he expects it to.

yep

Of the 2, Carr is more likely to be tagged

I think both get signed, though

I'm half expecting to hear about Bowe within the week.

And Carr I would think will get franchised and signed before the season like Hali did. Id bet Carr doesn’t want another one year tender so once tagged he’ll be negotiating in better faith. Another advantage of franchising Carr is if you’re going to tag and trade someone Carr is going to get you more in return.

Great Point

No way that Carr (or Bowe for that matter) walks out of KC, leaving us empty-handed. If either one goes to another team, it’ll because KC franchised & traded him. Personally, I suspect and hope that we re-sign both, but the worst case scenario in my book is that one of the two gets franchised and traded (think Matt Cassel deal with NE, without Vrabel).

Bowe and Carr

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Yes, I’m nervous about what might happen, but I still see one getting a long term deal and the other getting franchised. Both will be in KC in 2012 and beyond.

All you have to do is sign one.

I don’t see either holding out if getting the franchise tag. Carr will make more in one year with a franchise tag then he has his whole career.

Since Crennel is a defensive guy

I think he’ll push for Carr over Bowe. Obviously the decision will come down to Pioli, but I think he’ll have Crennel in his ear about Carr.

Also, I think most of us are nervous because we're

Royals fans as well…. and every time we get a good player, they leave and sign for more money than we can offer. At least there’s a cap in football.

Yes

And because we lost Donnie Edwards. That hurt too.

Another take

is folks know how Pioli let Asante Samuel walk.

If we resign Carr like we should,

we would have the best secondary for years to come… and for that reason, I think we end up re-signing him

Flowers vs Carr for the $$$

Hahaha love where this is going!?!?!?!
Well compare the 2 almost the same stats…
But Flowers has more tackles PassDef and INT’s and INT’s for TD’s…
Crazy that Flowers didn’t start every game in his career like Carr but has more.
But since they mostly play Flowers Right side and Carr Left of the QB’s facing them. That means Flowers will match up against the #1 WR 75-90% of the time.

Wild conspiracy theory but...

What are the chances that Carr and Bowe both agreed to one another to not sign a long-term deal so that one of them would hit free agency?

Maybe they had an idea on which one would get tagged if they didn’t and that guy was more open to staying in KC anyways.

can I have a hit?
eh

you think their agents haven’t talked?

I dont think they plan together not to sign for reasons you are suggesting.

They both know they will be paid pretty good no matter where they are. They both know they dont have to sign with any team the dont want. Even if they get tagged, I cant see the chiefs letting them play that out without trading or signing them longterm to a deal they want.

If one signs the other is tagged, for certain

If one wants out for sure and absolutely doesn’t want to get tagged. You think there’s no chance that could have been brought up?

What if Carr 100% doesn’t want to return, but he knows if Bowe signs long-term he’s getting tagged. You think he might not bring it up, or his agent?

Maybe

I personally dont think its that deep, but I could be wrong..I think they both would rather stay and its just a money issue at this point… Negotiations take a while and I think people are more or less jumping to conclusions at this point

This is what happens with no new news....mind wanders :)

I still think these kinds of discussions happen around the league, just not sure if it leads to influencing actual decisions.

Lebron/Wade /Bosh did it in almost same kinda way

always possible

HIT!

Boom Bip with a brother named Tip and we’re ready to flip
East coast stompin, rippin and rompin
New York, North Cak-a-laka, and Compton
Checka-checka-check it out!
The loops for the troops, more bounce to the ounce
And wow how now wow how now Brown cow
We’re ill till the skill gets down
For the flex, next, it’s the textbook old to the new
but the rest are doo-doo
From radio, to the video, to Arsenio
Tell me! Yo, what’s the scenario

+1 for ATCQ w/LotNS

fuckin love that song

Too much of a gamble.

The only slight advantage Pioli has right now is both guys are tag worthy so if neither wants to be tagged they have to negotiate in good faith. From the way Bowe talks he seems like the easier contract to hammer out but Carr has been upset with a one year deal before and probably wouldn’t be thrilled with another so he might take a little less money because of that.

maybe... but when these guys are less than a month away from free agency, why would you sign a long term deal now unless you are getting above market value?

Test the waters and get teams into a bidding war to drive up their value.

Because one of you is going to get tagged

And players don’t like one year deals so they’ll take a bit less to avoid it. 25M$ guaranteed is better then 9M$.

On the open market the money isn't going to be all that different

Maybe a million or two in guaranteed money? Probably less, especially in a bidding war. No one wants to take a franchise tag at 9M$ with the risk of injury or drop in ability and leave a big chunk of guaranteed money on the table.

I doubt it

He and Bowe have a level of camraderie along with Flowers(painting their shoes red and getting fines), it wouldnt make sense for either to lose that and end up playong against each other at some point

Im all for keeping both

But if I had to choose, I would have to keep Carr, I mean, if bowe is gone, then we better make a play for blackmon from OkSt.

No good reason not to keep both.

Hell we probably have to pay both just to get in line with the new cap regulations.

Pioli should have had this taken care of before the season ended. Yet again he proves himself a moron and sits on his hands while the rest of the league circles like vultures.

I’m really starting to hate this guy.

You honestly think they weren't trying to work something out before the end of the season?

that’s asinine. It’s called negotiation which requires a little give and take from both sides and it doesn’t just happen overnight.

The other guys they've resigned didn't drag into the off season.

The closer this gets to the opening of free agency the more likely these guys will test the market. There’s no mystery among GM types what certain players will get on the market. If Pioli would offer 95% of that, they’d be signed by now. But no, instead of putting all of their attention toward raiding other teams rosters, plus knowing exactly how much money you have to work with, Pioli will let this drag on and have to deal with both.

If he loses either guy, it proves he’s a fricken moron!

I don't see that happening
Carr is a beast

He may not be a ball hawk but he is still growing into and can go toe to toe with the best more often the not.

Pay the man a Flowers-sized contract and play him, opportunities like this dont cone around very often.

TRADE BOWE AND CARR

FOR PEYTON MANNING

Nobody's trading anything for Manning.
WTF?

Manning is going to be cut soon.

Even if Manning wasnt going to get cut and we could trade

I wouldnt want to trade Carr and Bowe for him.. Long term, we would be making a mistake

You forgot your scarcasm font...
If your going after Payton

He would be the key on both of them signing back on with the Chief’s. Who knows but Bowe and Carr won’t sign till after the deadline or if Peyton comes to town.

Payton is in paying Peyton to come....lol
He'd be crazy not to take advantage

…of this situation and while he is good he isn’t THAT good to break the bank. I think a 2nd round pick replaces him a Minnifield or Gilmore

Picks take time to develop

Carr already knows how the rest of the secondary play… To start over and use a draft pick on an unknown wouldnt be smart.. I thought rebuilding through the draft means you re-sign the guys that actually can play.. To keep going back to step one over and over doesnt make sense

Not nervous yet - give me some time

I like Carr and want to keep him, same for Bowe. Won’t start to freak out till we get a little closer to FA.

Looking at that list… damn I’d like to have Carl Nicks inside with Asamoah and Hudson…. maul city. We’d have to keep a big RB just to run up the gut behind those monsters.

Do you guys think Carr will sign a bigger contract than Flowers?

If so… I’m sure that will piss off Flowers :(

That could be the hold up

Carrs agent maybe asking for money bigger then flowers got.. If Pioli gave it to him, he would have issues.. Thats a good question

Nah Flowers is a leader in the 2ndary

Berry was making more then him as a rookie allowing the most TDs and he re-signed here.

And?
I mean...

do you really not follow the potential issue? or are you just being cute.

You do not base personnel decisions on hurting the feelings of another player

Especially another player that is locked into a long term deal.

bullshit

You dont give your number 2 corner more money then your 1.. You do that, you will piss off quite a few players in the locker room, including the number 1… I am not saying some decisions you make are going to please everyone, and they shouldnt, but it is in the minds of these football GMs about what the outcome might be of certain moves

Bullshit right back at you

We don’t have a #1 or #2 CB

We have a LCB and RCB.

There isn’t a depth chart with Flowers #1 and Carr #2. Many believe that Carr is better than Flowers, possibly the Chiefs front office does, IDK.

Again, in no way should Flowers’ ‘feelings’ be a part of this decision. Flowers is locked up, and getting paid well, honestly I could care less about his feelings.

95% of the time

the #1 WR will line up on the right side of the QB. The #1 CB (Flowers) lines up in front of that guy.

Thats not true at all
Not nearly as much as you think

matchups can dictate that Carr be on the bigger receiver no matter where they line up. Doesn’t matter if that is the #1 or #2 or whatever.

You know what I meant when I said #1 and # 2

Whether his feelings are part of their thinking is beyond me and you. But for you to say that isnt a part of re-signing player (making sure it isnt effecting others) is wrong. Its a part just like other factors

Flowers had been looked at as our best CB, Carr being in second

and for everyone saying Carr is better, that just started this year. Though he gives flowers a run for his money, Flowers is still better IMO..

Carr is better at covering the man, and Flowers is better at breaking on the ball. But other than that there is no difference in eachothers talent level.

Catching?

tackling ?

So you realize that it is your opinion that Flowers is better?

While many feel the other way?

With that in mind, and the fact we have no #1 CB in terms of a depth chart…sorry, but that pretty much voids your argument.

and Kurt Warner was a back-up. Did that make him a worse player? Nope dont think so.

and the sun is hot
Many feel the other way?

this just happened… If it was between keeping flowers or Carr, it would be hard pressed to find more people wanting Carr.. Carr might of had a better year, to some people, but that doesnt all of a sudden put him over flowers.

Ok, we dont have a #1 or #2.. you win… Teams not putting players feelings into the mix while re-signing or drafting players, you lose.

Nah,

I win on both accounts. Thanks for playing though.

Game sucked anyway
One sided ones are that way :)
if you feel that way

this is coming from a guy who doesnt think politics have their part in football

sad but true

players feelings play a part of this game.. Like it or not.. As bullshit as it is, it happens

I never said politics don't play a part of football

I said paying when negotiating a contract with Carr, the feelings of Flowers are inconsequential.

He was better then Flowers last year

People were to infatuated with the first three games to notice he fell of significantly, Carr meanwhile stayed completely solid the whole year.

Ok

that is 1 year.. Flowers has been better every other year. That makes Carr better? Cassel has had better years then great QBs, that make him better?

Last year

And the year before, i meant to say 2010 not this actual last year.

2010

i remember Carr blowing plenty of coverages and dropping anything that hit his hand..I recalled another story

Then you remember wrong

Flowers was the one getting beat horribly, and was seriously inconsistent after the first three games. Hell Flaaco pretty much ignored Carr during the playoff game and just kept targeting Flowers.

Carr was rated top 10 as a corner for that year, Flowers missed the cut.

Carr isnt better but I dont think Flowers is better either. They play with different styles. Carr is more conservative approach and Flowers is the bump and run guy. Both are spectacular players!!!

Dude just wants to get paid

I don’t think players get jealous over each other’s contracts. If Carr gets more than Flowers, wouldn’t be by a whole lot any way.

This will be very interesting 2 weeks.

Either Bowe or Carr will get the franchise tag. I am real curious to see which one does. My instict is that they may be able to sign Carr long term, but I really think Bowe will either be franchised or will walk. I think he will want more money than he is worth. He is going to want Andre Johnson Larry Fitz money, and he is not worth it.

Lose one...shame on them

lose both…shame on Pioli

Unless one of them comes out and says they didn't want to be here

Or they were willing to take less money to play elsewhere, if we lose either I’m blaming Pioli/Clark.

What kind of money is Bowe worth, and what will he want.
What kind of money is Bowe worth, and what will he want.
What kind of money is Bowe worth, and what will he want.
I think he is gone unless he is franchised.
Are you saying he'll want more than he's worth?

Possible. But will he get offered more than he’s worth from someone else?

This franchise simply has no excuse to let their best players walk in FA when they have spouted for years that this is the reason they have been so cheap.

I think he will want top 3 WR money. I don't know if he is worth it.
I honestly don't care what he wants

I care what someone else is willing to pay him. I doubt anyone else pays him top 3 WR money.

In fact, I’d be shocked.

I think he wants to find out, so he will not sign before the start of free agency.
That's ok with me

Not ideal, but ok. We should be able to beat whatever is offered considering our cap position and need.

Would I pay him top 3 money? No. But no one else will either.

I hope that is the case.

I worry someone might.

There's absolutely no excuse to lose either one

We all know they won’t make any high profile signings in free agency. What else to spend money on besides draft picks (which are cheaper than before)?

If they play hard-ball, so be it. Just pay them. Both players are integral to this team and we’d be taking a step back by losing either one.

There’s nothing else to save the money for. If Pioli doesn’t get both then he’s failing as a GM.

I love Bowe and Carr, want to see the both be succesful, would LOVE to keep them both.

That said, I think that Carr RAC makes Carr look good. If he walks somehow I doubt that he will look ‘as good’ with his new team. Something about the way RAC coaches his Defense to get the ‘most’ out of his guys.

Bowe…If I could only keep one of the two, it would be Bowe…beacuse we are struggleing more on O then D right now and he is NEEDed more.

That said, Pioli needs to lock them both up to long term, team AND player freindly deals. Send the message that if you perform for this team as a player, you WILL get paid (and well).

Gunther Cunningham Fing with KC AGAIN

I believe that GC has talked to a couple of our players and promised them a SB ring and tons of Money. Maybe when Detroit Lions kicked KC butt all over the field was a way of Carr proving it that he was coming….lol

Nah

I dont think that Brandon Carr was the reason the Lions scored so many points. If you look at the game Brandon Flowers was the one burned up and down the field by Megatron, plus KC’s D-Line was horrible in that game. I seriously doubt that the Lions can even afford him. Nice try though.

You can't promise guys a Super Bowl ring

That’s not how it works

Carr is gone

Pioli will offer him a middle of the road type deal so he can say hey we tried but a handful of other teams will offer him huge deals and he’ll be gone. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was Detroit.

Pay the man!

Pay both Carr and Bowe for the love of God. They made a mistake by letting Jared Allen go. I don’t care about how he wanted out. They should have made their wrongs right and did whatever it took to keep him in KC. Do not make the same mistake with these 2, please.

Fuck Jared Allen.
Why?

He is a beast. Imagine him and Tamba destroying QB’s. I know it’s the past and I know that Houston is coming into his own, but one can dream of what could have been.

Agreed

Allen’s 22 sacks paired with the Liberian Nightmare’s 12.
Ouch

Allen would have a rough time playing 3-4 OLB

His natural playing weight is higher than Hali’s (or Houston’s)

When he was a rookie he was closer in size to where Hali is now, and he was fast but had difficulty in run defense so we asked him to put on some weight

We got Albert and Charles for Allen

A rare deal that worked out well for both teams.

I’d take that trade again in a heartbeat.

agreed
I agree too

I was just day dreaming about what those 2 would be like on the same team now

Carr is the truth!! Has improved every year since he’s been here, and he’s better than Flowers! Pioli better get it done!! No excuses!

Pay Carr... Dispose of Bowe

Bowe is way more inconsistent at the WR position than Carr is at DB. Plus, KC’s defense is the part of the team that is doing well. Bowe has dropped so many passes that could have made a difference that as a Chiefs fan I am tired of seeing him play.

If the defense is playing better than the offense why would create another hole in the offense? That doesn’t make much sense. If anything the defense is better-equipped to lose a guy like Carr than the offense to lose a guy like Bowe.

Write this one in the books….Jonathan Baldwin WILL produce more in his career than Bowe will. Plus his hands stick to the ball they dont slide off like Bowe’s.

I remember a Cassel interception on a certain Monday Night game...

It hit Baldwin in the gloves and slid into…Jammer’s(?) hands

Okay I'm in...Lets play this I remember game!!!

I REMEMBER….a game between the Chiefs and Oakland on Dec. 24, 2011 against Oakland. Now understand, if the Chiefs would have won this game they would have made the playoffs because they ended up beating Denver the following week. The Chiefs ended up losing to Oakland 16-13 in O.T. In this loss, your beloved Bowe dropped a touchdown pass that hit him in the numbers. If he catches that ball we are in the playoffs, but he didnt so beating Denver was for nothing more than pride

God willing Baldwin won’t spend the first the first five years of his career with clowns like Huard, Thigpen, and Cassel throwing to him.

You're basing that off a rookie season

That was about 1/100th as good as Bowe’s?

And who happened to be the clown throwing to him that rookie season?
Cassel/Palko/Orton

And it’s not like he suddenly came on when Orton (who is better than Huard/Croyle/Thiggy, the guys Bowe had) took the helm.

He doesnt separate very well

But hes shown that hell catch the ball if you throw it in his direction whether covered or not, that catch on Dawkins was a thing of beauty i wish it wasnt called back die to a stupid penalty.

Lol when I said rookie season, I meant Bowe's
Bowe is the best WR in Chiefs' history

You’re saying that Baldwin will surpasse him based on last year?

Otis Taylor would disagree with you

And I would as well. You can’t go just off of yards receiving, eras were completely different.

But I agree with your premise, thinking Baldwin will be better than Bowe at this point is rather ridiculous.

He mat disagree

But he doesnt have the stats with horrible QBs to make an argument

You don't simply compare stats from the 60's and stats from 2010 as apples for apples

Otherwise, Len Dawson wouldn’t have a prayer to be in the HOF. He was a 57% passer.

Bowe was the Chiefs only offense this year.

One of the most exciting players on our team. Has lead our team in TD’s the past two years outside of QB play.

I am tired of seeing him play.

Just ridiculous.

He has also led the team in dropped passes. What a stat to have.

That tends to happen when you’re thrown at the most times…

YES!

Let’s get rid of our only 1k yard receiver who has had QBs such as Damon Huard, Tyler Thigpen, Brodie Croyle, Matt Cassel, and TYLER PALKO! We don’t need that 1k yard production! Or his TDs!!!!! DISPOSE OF HIM!!!!

Oh his FIVE touchdowns. Thats not a whole lot to lose. I understand the quarterback situations definitly havent been favorable but Jabar Gaffney had 6TDS and less than a 1k yards thrown from QB Rex Grossman. Even though Huard, Thigpen, and Cassel are definitly not the greatest QBs it does take some skill to play in the NFL. I just dont see how five touchdowns is tough to lose

By that argument, who needs Jamaal Charles?

TD’s are not all that matters when judging a player.

And even if they were

Didn’t he JUST come off a 15 or 16 TD season?

We scored the lowest amount of points in a season in franchise history

I blame the whole offense for that lack of production…and yes he had like 16 TDs last season so what about that?

After going through that CBS rankings of the top 50 FA...

I don’t see how we’re going to keep Carr unless he wants to stay :(

It Depends on Who Pioli Thinks he can draft a replacement for

We have a first round pick that will get us an immediate starting OG or OT.
And it is pretty likely we can still improve either OG or OT in the second round as well.
We probably are too low to get one of the 2 WR who would start right away.
We may have a shot at one of the “Large” CB who can start right away.
If Pioli thinks he can get Kirkpartick, he will probably tag Bowe and let Carr go with the flow.

Finegan will set the Market. Then Carr will follow one way or the other.

I think I'd rather have Carr

More even keeled, taller, skills are roughly equivalent.

Same here
I pick Carr

I believe Carr is more skilled and also won’t cost the team in costly penalties.

Not only is Courtland not that good

he’s kind of a bitch too.

I think Carr is gone

Reason 1: He wants to win
Reason 2: Pioli and Hunt are too tight to pay him

See: Hali, Charles, DJ, Flowers, Cassel

Your argument is invalid

and Succop
I think Bowe is gone before Carr is

See the two retorts above ^^

Hopefully Pioli realizes he just has to sign one by mid-March

Get at least one long term deal done, and slap that tag on the other.

I'm pretty sure he knows how it works :)
Oh, my bad

I didn’t realize we played in the bg game last week.

There's a lot of things you don't realize

it’s ok

Are some of those things

Pioli is the best gm in the league,Matt cassell is the best qb and Daboll is a proven winner?

No, some of those things are the fact

that not everyone makes the Super Bowl every year. The fact that our young talent is starting to put things together. The fact that we easily CAN be winners if we resign our home grown talent.

Stuff like that. It’s ok though. Maybe you should take a brain break for awhile.

I agree with your point

but, be careful about personal attacks

thanks

If the team could " easily" become winners,

Why hasn’t it happened in my lifetime?

Because Carl Peterson was the GM?

(just guessing…I don’t know when your lifetime began)

What does that have to do with anything
I has to do with playing for a winner

On one hand you have the Chiefs, sure they show they have a chance to be decent. On the other hand you have any of this last seasons playoff teams (excluding the broncos),and they are offering you the same money. Who are you going to sign with?

If Carr leaves & isn't overpaid by an absurd amount

It’ll be Pioli’s equivalent of playing Tyler Palko for four games. I’ll lose all my belief in the guy.

Oh shit!

I didn’t realize Pioli was coach :-\

analogy dude
I love how every wrong decision is blamed on Pioli
Truth Be Told...

Brandon Carr’s ceiling higher than Flowers…QBs target Flowers more than Carr due to his size but both of em tough…SECONDARY THE BEST IN THE NFL…Lewis better, Berry is Berry so its gon be trouble for teams tryin to throw that pig skin

Everyone signed, everyone health =

Best secondary in the NFL. For YEARS! Bottom line, Carr is more important than Bowe, and is also more of a danger of leaving. Lock that shit up.

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